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Posted

This conflict ain't new. The humanitarian catastrophe is well known and documented. One of the worse on the globe, gets very little press.

And the Saudis and Emirates are a major reason for that.

 

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Posted (edited)
  On 8/27/2024 at 5:07 AM, staboner said:

yeah what inka said

and now the earth and sea get to suffer more along side them. sigh. 

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It's never ceases to amaze me the wreckless abandon with which man will wreck the environment for military gains in conflict. Whether the gains are perceived or real, no fucks given in regards to the damage short term or long lasting. Agent Orange, always comes to mind along with a couple of bombs dropped on Japan.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 1:48 PM, Ghost of LL said:

Many years ago, I was on a cruise on a very nice little ship that had a very international passenger list.  I was there, of course.  And there were a bunch of Brits and Germans and a handful of French and Japanese folks.  And among them was this Saudi couple.  

It was a small ship, so everyone socialized and interacted to some greater or lesser degree.  And the Saudis were pretty sociable (which is pretty interesting, given that this was not that long after 9/11), particularly in the cigar lounge after dinner.  I mean, that's where the Saudi gent would go--I have no idea what his wife did.

Anyway, one night we're down in the cigar lounge.  It's me, the Saudi fellow, a couple of Brits, and various other people.  And the Saudi is kind of gently advocating the Saudi view on international relations, which, as I said, was kind of interesting given that it wasn't that long after 9/11.  The Brit is having none of it.  I later learned from another British couple that he was a "proper lord."  I never figured out what would make one an improper lord.  Some of the vagaries of the British social caste system escape me.

In any event, the Saudi is getting more and more frustrated in the discussion, and at some point very loudly expressed his view that Saudi Arabia has one of the highest GDP/capita in the world and merits respect on the world stage.  The British "proper lord," in his very smooth and measured Oxbridge accent replies, "you see, my dear boy, nobody is going to respect you because a hundred years ago, you were herding goats in the desert; and a hundred years from now, you'll be herding goats in the desert."

That's when I--more than mildly intoxicated, I must confess--let out a laugh that was louder than was polite for the size of the room.

The Saudi was pissed, stabbed out his cigar, and stormed out.

 

Happily, he didn't blow up the ship after that.

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Avatar fits rather well for your post.

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 12:21 PM, ztejas said:

I need to wait for someone to tell me which ethnic group I should support and who I should be mad at. 

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Houthi bad. Dutch bad. Canadian weird. Kiwi awkward. Estonian good.

Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 1:48 PM, Ghost of LL said:

Many years ago, I was on a cruise on a very nice little ship that had a very international passenger list.  I was there, of course.  And there were a bunch of Brits and Germans and a handful of French and Japanese folks.  And among them was this Saudi couple.  

It was a small ship, so everyone socialized and interacted to some greater or lesser degree.  And the Saudis were pretty sociable (which is pretty interesting, given that this was not that long after 9/11), particularly in the cigar lounge after dinner.  I mean, that's where the Saudi gent would go--I have no idea what his wife did.

Anyway, one night we're down in the cigar lounge.  It's me, the Saudi fellow, a couple of Brits, and various other people.  And the Saudi is kind of gently advocating the Saudi view on international relations, which, as I said, was kind of interesting given that it wasn't that long after 9/11.  The Brit is having none of it.  I later learned from another British couple that he was a "proper lord."  I never figured out what would make one an improper lord.  Some of the vagaries of the British social caste system escape me.

In any event, the Saudi is getting more and more frustrated in the discussion, and at some point very loudly expressed his view that Saudi Arabia has one of the highest GDP/capita in the world and merits respect on the world stage.  The British "proper lord," in his very smooth and measured Oxbridge accent replies, "you see, my dear boy, nobody is going to respect you because a hundred years ago, you were herding goats in the desert; and a hundred years from now, you'll be herding goats in the desert."

That's when I--more than mildly intoxicated, I must confess--let out a laugh that was louder than was polite for the size of the room.

The Saudi was pissed, stabbed out his cigar, and stormed out.

 

Happily, he didn't blow up the ship after that.

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Wait until they corner the market on sand... Oh wait, those fucks have to import sand for construction. Do does the UAE. Their sand even sucks.

But yes, they do think they belong as powers. At least the Saudi's have Mecca. UAE has bunch of fake shit and overpriced everything.

An improper Lord would be one who cannot name his entire legacy back to some Raj. And the Brits can fuck themselves proper. A lot of the tribal animosity discussed on here was caused by their vision of maps. They did great at cartography as long as it divided people, screwed up resource allocation, but allowed for some nice club with a veranda to look out over their empire.

 

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 3:00 PM, InkaUtexas said:

And the Brits can fuck themselves proper. A lot of the tribal animosity discussed on here was caused by their vision of maps. They did great at cartography as long as it divided people, screwed up resource allocation, but allowed for some nice club with a veranda to look out over their empire.

 

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As someone who has toured much of the old Empire and who has visited many of those delightful clubs with verandas, I think this is a popular, but ungenerous, take.

Many of the overseas dominions and territories once ruled by His Britannic Majesty were previously ruled by some other foreign empire.  The British took over India from the Mughals, who were not indigenous rulers but were instead a Turcic-Mongol dynasty descended from Tamerlane.  They took over Egypt and the Levant from the Ottomans.  And much of Africa they took over from other European powers (e.g., the Dutch in South Africa; the Germans in Tanzania).

You're right that the partition of India was a clusterfuck.  But let's just be real honest about India--that country has a very long history of ethnic and religious strife.  It's hard to foresee a purely peaceful history of 20th Century India even if Lord Curzon had never put pen to paper.

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 3:25 PM, Ghost of LL said:

As someone who has toured much of the old Empire and who has visited many of those delightful clubs with verandas, I think this is a popular, but ungenerous, take.

Many of the overseas dominions and territories once ruled by His Britannic Majesty were previously ruled by some other foreign empire.  The British took over India from the Mughals, who were not indigenous rulers but were instead a Turcic-Mongol dynasty descended from Tamerlane.  They took over Egypt and the Levant from the Ottomans.  And much of Africa they took over from other European powers (e.g., the Dutch in South Africa; the Germans in Tanzania).

You're right that the partition of India was a clusterfuck.  But let's just be real honest about India--that country has a very long history of ethnic and religious strife.  It's hard to foresee a purely peaceful history of 20th Century India even if Lord Curzon had never put pen to paper.

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Agree to most of that. But the Brits never modified borders to fix issues (nor did the French). To try and remain on subject. Remember how they split Yemen. That is a fucked up division line. A major reason was to protect Oman, one of the last vestiges of British power in the region (and still there).

why-did-the-two-yemens-volunteer-to-unite-or-were-pushed-to-v0-o0r6m35ysefc1.webp.7ec52f72f698774740ebf711d7e78476.webp

I have also spent a lot of my life living in these lands as the unclean colonist allowed to be among them, and most, especially the brick layers from Manchester who gets the dream job in Dubai or the Oxford grad off to save South Sudan from hunger,  never forget their colonizing legacy. I have worked with these dudes and dudettes and also real lords. The Lords tended to be better at trying to understand but there remains the upper lip style to life.

yes, I know how empires come and go. The Ottomans took it from the locals who took it from the Macedonians, who took it from..... There was someone in South Africa before the Dutch. Even then the Dutch did not control the entire modern nation of South Africa. Someone named it the Zambezi and it was not some white European.

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 1:24 PM, InkaUtexas said:

Why just them? Can we add Ikea, Nike, the EU's imports from Asia? That is the trade route for all that.

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Just keep REI inventory out of the mix and I'll support your proposed boycott.

It's all ethically sourced and manufactured after all. Hence the obscene pricing. 

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 3:49 PM, InkaUtexas said:

Agree to most of that. But the Brits never modified borders to fix issues (nor did the French). To try and remain on subject. Remember how they split Yemen. That is a fucked up division line. A major reason was to protect Oman, one of the last vestiges of British power in the region (and still there).

why-did-the-two-yemens-volunteer-to-unite-or-were-pushed-to-v0-o0r6m35ysefc1.webp.7ec52f72f698774740ebf711d7e78476.webp

I have also spent a lot of my life living in these lands as the unclean colonist allowed to be among them, and most, especially the brick layers from Manchester who gets the dream job in Dubai or the Oxford grad off to save South Sudan from hunger,  never forget their colonizing legacy. I have worked with these dudes and dudettes and also real lords. The Lords tended to be better at trying to understand but there remains the upper lip style to life.

yes, I know how empires come and go. The Ottomans took it from the locals who took it from the Macedonians, who took it from..... There was someone in South Africa before the Dutch. Even then the Dutch did not control the entire modern nation of South Africa. Someone named it the Zambezi and it was not some white European.

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It's always the god damn Dutch!

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 4:07 PM, BurntEyes said:

Just keep REI inventory out of the mix and I'll support your proposed boycott.

It's all ethically sourced and manufactured after all. Hence the obscene pricing. 

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I never said boycott. But REI would be one of the first. I can get my color coordinated climbing gear from plenty of places.

Posted (edited)
  On 8/27/2024 at 4:17 PM, orange dream said:

It literally goes with everything and nothing simultaneously.

 

KAPAI3L_KAPS22DD-DelDia_AL.webp.19701597d9b27a092c6da8589b1a561a.webp

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I used the shit out of mine doing 4-5 mile afternoon hikes in Colorado. It's perfect for carrying a couple bottles of water, phone, keys, and wallet. Wearing it around your hip is tons easier and less cumbersome than a backpack.

Edited by crash_davis
Posted (edited)
  On 8/27/2024 at 4:09 PM, InkaUtexas said:

I never said boycott. But REI would be one of the first. I can get my color coordinated climbing gear from plenty of places.

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Amusingly enough REI was started by a group of guys looking to acquire climbing gear at a lower cost than the available retailers in Seattle. So, I mean, hypocrite much? 

Also, were the fuck am I supposed to get my Olu Kai shoed without REI?!?!?

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 4:28 PM, BurntEyes said:

Amusingly enough REI was started by a group of guys looking to acquire climbing gear at a lower cost than the available retailers in Seattle. So, I mean, hypocrite much? 

Also, were the fuck am I supposed to get my Olu Kai shoed without REI?!?!?

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I know. My dad's unit used to love it and buy from there all the time. Same with other few places.

Meh to those shoes. Surly 1% buys those for their landscaper.

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 12:18 PM, BurntEyes said:

It's never ceases to amaze me the wreckless abandon with which man will wreck the environment for military gains in conflict. Whether the gains are perceived or real, no fucks given in regards to the damage short term or long lasting. Agent Orange, always comes to mind along with a couple of bombs dropped on Japan.

Expand  

image.gif.283e22fa4d4c3b24ffc4dcaeb298e525.gif

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 3:25 PM, Ghost of LL said:

As someone who has toured much of the old Empire and who has visited many of those delightful clubs with verandas, I think this is a popular, but ungenerous, take.

Many of the overseas dominions and territories once ruled by His Britannic Majesty were previously ruled by some other foreign empire.  The British took over India from the Mughals, who were not indigenous rulers but were instead a Turcic-Mongol dynasty descended from Tamerlane.  They took over Egypt and the Levant from the Ottomans.  And much of Africa they took over from other European powers (e.g., the Dutch in South Africa; the Germans in Tanzania).

You're right that the partition of India was a clusterfuck.  But let's just be real honest about India--that country has a very long history of ethnic and religious strife.  It's hard to foresee a purely peaceful history of 20th Century India even if Lord Curzon had never put pen to paper.

Expand  

I used to love going to the Sind Club in Karachi.  The Pakistani elite would slug gin and tonics in a wood paneled cigar room while their wives at tea sandwiches and they’d tell me how awful the British were. 

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 1:48 PM, Ghost of LL said:

Many years ago, I was on a cruise on a very nice little ship that had a very international passenger list.  I was there, of course.  And there were a bunch of Brits and Germans and a handful of French and Japanese folks.  And among them was this Saudi couple.  

It was a small ship, so everyone socialized and interacted to some greater or lesser degree.  And the Saudis were pretty sociable (which is pretty interesting, given that this was not that long after 9/11), particularly in the cigar lounge after dinner.  I mean, that's where the Saudi gent would go--I have no idea what his wife did.

Anyway, one night we're down in the cigar lounge.  It's me, the Saudi fellow, a couple of Brits, and various other people.  And the Saudi is kind of gently advocating the Saudi view on international relations, which, as I said, was kind of interesting given that it wasn't that long after 9/11.  The Brit is having none of it.  I later learned from another British couple that he was a "proper lord."  I never figured out what would make one an improper lord.  Some of the vagaries of the British social caste system escape me.

In any event, the Saudi is getting more and more frustrated in the discussion, and at some point very loudly expressed his view that Saudi Arabia has one of the highest GDP/capita in the world and merits respect on the world stage.  The British "proper lord," in his very smooth and measured Oxbridge accent replies, "you see, my dear boy, nobody is going to respect you because a hundred years ago, you were herding goats in the desert; and a hundred years from now, you'll be herding goats in the desert."

That's when I--more than mildly intoxicated, I must confess--let out a laugh that was louder than was polite for the size of the room.

The Saudi was pissed, stabbed out his cigar, and stormed out.

 

Happily, he didn't blow up the ship after that.

Expand  

line stolen from the movie syriana.

 

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 5:16 PM, sidis said:

line stolen from the movie syriana.

 

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My story, though, dates from 2002--three years before the movie.

But in neither case is it an original observation.  Stated in various forms, it's a comment made by members of various administrations dating back to Roosevelt.

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Posted
  On 8/27/2024 at 1:48 PM, Ghost of LL said:

Many years ago, I was on a cruise on a very nice little ship that had a very international passenger list.  I was there, of course.  And there were a bunch of Brits and Germans and a handful of French and Japanese folks.  And among them was this Saudi couple.  

It was a small ship, so everyone socialized and interacted to some greater or lesser degree.  And the Saudis were pretty sociable (which is pretty interesting, given that this was not that long after 9/11), particularly in the cigar lounge after dinner.  I mean, that's where the Saudi gent would go--I have no idea what his wife did.

Anyway, one night we're down in the cigar lounge.  It's me, the Saudi fellow, a couple of Brits, and various other people.  And the Saudi is kind of gently advocating the Saudi view on international relations, which, as I said, was kind of interesting given that it wasn't that long after 9/11.  The Brit is having none of it.  I later learned from another British couple that he was a "proper lord."  I never figured out what would make one an improper lord.  Some of the vagaries of the British social caste system escape me.

In any event, the Saudi is getting more and more frustrated in the discussion, and at some point very loudly expressed his view that Saudi Arabia has one of the highest GDP/capita in the world and merits respect on the world stage.  The British "proper lord," in his very smooth and measured Oxbridge accent replies, "you see, my dear boy, nobody is going to respect you because a hundred years ago, you were herding goats in the desert; and a hundred years from now, you'll be herding goats in the desert."

That's when I--more than mildly intoxicated, I must confess--let out a laugh that was louder than was polite for the size of the room.

The Saudi was pissed, stabbed out his cigar, and stormed out.

 

Happily, he didn't blow up the ship after that.

Expand  

 

  On 8/27/2024 at 3:25 PM, Ghost of LL said:

As someone who has toured much of the old Empire and who has visited many of those delightful clubs with verandas, I think this is a popular, but ungenerous, take.

Many of the overseas dominions and territories once ruled by His Britannic Majesty were previously ruled by some other foreign empire.  The British took over India from the Mughals, who were not indigenous rulers but were instead a Turcic-Mongol dynasty descended from Tamerlane.  They took over Egypt and the Levant from the Ottomans.  And much of Africa they took over from other European powers (e.g., the Dutch in South Africa; the Germans in Tanzania).

You're right that the partition of India was a clusterfuck.  But let's just be real honest about India--that country has a very long history of ethnic and religious strife.  It's hard to foresee a purely peaceful history of 20th Century India even if Lord Curzon had never put pen to paper.

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Quick, one more and you’ll hit the humble brag post trifecta, all on page 1! Impressive. 

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Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 2:44 AM, InkaUtexas said:

He can't right now. Eating a tiny cucumber sandwich, sipping on Pims, and wondering where in blazes is his pith hat.

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I know exactly where my pith helmet is, thank you very much. It’s in my closet where it belongs until the next time I go on safari in Africa.

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Posted (edited)
  On 8/28/2024 at 2:55 AM, Ghost of LL said:

I know exactly where my pith helmet is, thank you very much. It’s in my closet where it belongs until the next time I go on safari in Africa.

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Good on ya Bwana. Let me know if you need to borrow one of my Masai spears. Are you and General Gordan taking a jaunt down to the falls?

 

Edited by InkaUtexas
Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 3:09 AM, InkaUtexas said:

Good on ya Bwana. Let me know if you need to borrow one of my Masai spears. Are you and General Gordan taking a jaunt down to the falls?

 

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Went there a couple years ago. The Falls really are worth the trip. It’s rare that something exceeds expectations when traveling, but the Falls definitely did.

IMG_4078.thumb.jpeg.629fdaf7d5b7bd85b6961f24083c054f.jpeg

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Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 4:20 AM, Ghost of LL said:

Went there a couple years ago. The Falls really are worth the trip. It’s rare that something exceeds expectations when traveling, but the Falls definitely did.

IMG_4078.thumb.jpeg.629fdaf7d5b7bd85b6961f24083c054f.jpeg

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Gorgeous, but sorry to tell you. Your companion was an improper Lord. General Gordon took Khartoum and had to deal with the numerous falls on the Nile. Foolish Colonial.

BTW, a book I think you would enjoy. A Race to Fashoda.

Back to Yemen. Not only is there a Civil War, Humanitarian Crisis (massive famine, etc), and a testing ground for barely illiterate forces to be given ballistic missiles, they are also a major human smuggling path. 13 went missing off the coast today.

 

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