Tyreek Hill police body cam released

['stache 21726]

8 hours ago, Chopper said:

What amazes me is how many of you are ignorant of the fucking law. And, while we're on the topic, why it is the way it is. Any and every asshole in this country is liable to have a deadly firearm on their person or in their vehicle. A cop never knows what they're walking up on. That's why they're programmed to give direct orders and why courts will back them up nearly every single time. 

That’s the fucking problem and why so many people hate police. In traffic stops 99.99% of the time the person isn’t looking to blast a cop with a hidden gun. That they approach these things as though every person they pull over is an enemy is what is fundamentally broken in US policing, they are trained that way. They are not acting like civil servants but more like an occupying force seeing enemies around every corner. There are many ways to deescalate when the speeder is being a jerk, and ways to assess if there is cause to believe that something else is going on like a dead hooker in the trunk. Assuming that every speeder is looking to blast you over a traffic ticket is complete horseshit. Fuck the police. 

Edited September 10 by 'stache

[Alien Octopus 497]

18 minutes ago, 'stache said:

That’s the fucking problem and why so many people hate police. In traffic stops 99.99% of the time the person isn’t looking to blast a cop with a hidden gun. That they approach these things as though every person they pull over is an enemy is what is fundamentally broken in US policing, they are trained that way. They are not acting like civil servants but more like an occupying force seeing enemies around every corner. There are many ways to deescalate when the speeder is being a jerk, and ways to assess if there is cause to believe that something else is going on like a dead hooker in the trunk. Assuming that every speeder is looking to blast you over a traffic ticket is complete horseshit. Fuck the police. 

125 mph may have caused them Coppers to be amped up, if reports Tyreek’s right foot are accurate. Pretty sure anyone else is locked up and not on another highlight reel a couple of hours later.

[immamac 42378]

So there's a few things going on here that are all conflated and causing a lot of arguments and confusion and circular arguments. 

1) Tyreek hill acted like an entitled jackass and this obvious agitation worked against him. 

2) Cop acted unprofessionally on video and made poor judgements that are clear in hindsight, but were also fairly easy to recognize without hindsight. 

3) Nothing illegal happened after the stop or during the body cam footage. Tyreek is allowed by law to be a jackass and allowed to comply only with lawful orders and the cop is allowed by law to gain compliance with basic orders. 

So let's change 2 small things about the scenario and see how it is still wrong and how it could have possibly been right. 

Change 1) tyreek is still a dick to the officer but doesn't roll his window up and tells the cop he's calling his lawyer and wants some privacy, but is willing to comply if the police need additional information outside of what his lawyer says is needed with a warrant or probable cause. Basically the most legal dickhead you can possibly be, but still giving the cops what they need to feel secure and like they are in control of the stop. 

Cop looks even worse. Same end result. 

Change 2) tryeek has a firearm in his vehicle that he does not declare and show proper identification (if necessary in Florida ), upon being removed it is visible in the floorboard of the car.

Cop not a bad guy, actions justified, but still sketchy at best. 

The issue is that change #2 is what every cop thinks is going to happen every single time, because they don't want to get shot. 

What if the cops were just really really kind with tyreek?

What if tyreek was just really really kind with the cop?

I think @MNLonghornFUKM is arguing for decency in all situations not just this one and that's why he sounds like an obnoxious dick. He's not packaging the message right, because he like many is frustrated with how everyone is always acting like a fucking dick all the time. He isn't defending the police he's saying if everyone was decent to eachother this wouldn't happen. 

I think there are some others in this thread that are holding the police to the decency standard as a professional standard and this comes from the same source of frustration that people just are shitty to eachother by default nowadays and when you combine that with authority it is a really bad mix. 

 

[Vic Mackey 46849]

Unlike you, apparently, I'm not able to read the cop's mind. I simply watched the video and observed what actually occurred. And as it happens, whatever was in the cop's mind doesn't fucking matter under the law. That's what I'm discussing here. The cop might've wanted him to exit the vehicle so he could have a good look at what was in it, and then if he saw anything he deemed suspicious use that as probable cause to search the entire vehicle. The cop might've wanted him out of the vehicle simply because he felt safer if he were in handcuffs for the duration of the stop if he were. All of that is legal and your feelings don't matter. 

This whole post screams "black guy bad, black guy dangerous"

[Pam Cummings 9527]

Tyreek was an asshole to them. He was not completely complying. But there was a point where he got the message where he was like "ok bro alright bro". At that point the escalation needs to end. He got the message. Everything that happened after that point was pretty egregious. It's clear there was no danger and he was ready to comply.

[hornbri 1348]

5 hours ago, Chopper said:

.

edit - FYI - I am pretty sure it's okay to hold two, perhaps even three, independent and related thoughts at once: The driver behaved rudely and, as it turns out, illegally, and his illegal behavior -- as opposed to his rude behavior -- led to ramifications. He's not at all a sympathetic figure in my eyes. 

This is where you lose everybody, you can be “technically correct” but still wrong. 
 

Even if you are right and everyone hill did was illegal, how you can not feel sympathetic to him after listening to the words the cops say and watching their actions.

your ”sympathy” shouldn’t be tied to the letter if the law. 

[mwaadeeb 1149]

Not rolling the window down was dumb, but the cop pulling him out of the car before TH had the chance to get out, even worse. Fuck that cop and fuck the system that defends him.

[Al_4_ISU 12387]

12 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm conflicted because Reek is a giant pile of human garbage, but also fuck cops and their power trips. I'm gonna have to grudgingly be on team Reek here.

This.  Two things that disgust me the most in this world are cops abusing their power, and men abusing women.  It's hard for me to have any sympathy for Hill on any front, but the cops were totally over the top here in a completely unsurprising way.

[Gidnik 3248]

under no circumstance is anyone required by law to obey any law enforcement person just because they say so. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

8 hours ago, Chopper said:

He's a cop, doing his job, dipshit. Now I see your grievance is that you believe people should be able to drive whatever speed they want. Good for you, you're a real cool dude. Also, your claim that they pulled him over because he's black is total bullshit. Just be glad you're finally learning how to behave if you ever do get pulled over. 

He’s not doing his job, though. If he were doing his job and had concerns with speeding, he’d have written the ticket and sent him in his way. This was clearly, absolutely clearly, nothing more than a vulgar display of power. 

And if you think this wasn’t a lunatic cop being a bitch, why did he tell Campbell to leave and then fucking refuse to let him leave? He wanted to exert control. Period. That’s not his job. 

He fucked up. And I can 100% guarantee this isn’t the first time. 

[Gidnik 3248]

also, in florida a speeding ticket of less than 30mph over the speed limit is considered a "noncriminal violation" which is not a crime in any way or form.   speeding 30mp-49mph above the limit is a considered a "traffic misdenmenor ". 50 mph and above the speed limit becomes  a "felony traffic violation".

so unless he was 30mph above the speed limit he commit no crimes. all of these cops are fucking cooked. 

[nineliveslost 2700]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

The people here saying all cops are bad are just as stupid as the ones saying that the officers actions were justified. 

 

The problem is out of a police force of 10, 2 might be bad cops. 3 cover for the bad cops, 3 look the other way and 2 wish they would change but don't say anything to protect the 'gang". The remote chance someone does file a complaint, a large percentage gets pushed out of the "gang"

40% go home and abuse their family 

25% have substance abuse issues 

So, it paints a picture of cops in a very poor light. These videos reinforce the stigma of bad cops. over and over and over. 

It does seem like a reflection of our society. Anger rules everywhere 

[nineliveslost 2700]

9 minutes ago, Gidnik said:

under no circumstance is anyone required by law to obey any law enforcement person just because they say so. 

in Florida, if you are driving motor vehicle and a cop asked for your driver's license, I am pretty sure you have to show it or lose your license and face prosecution 

 

 The failure to provide driver license statute is A.R.S. 28-1595(B). This statute requires that a driver, when stopped by law enforcement, must provide his or her driver license

[Gidnik 3248]

4 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

in Florida, if you are driving motor vehicle and a cop asked for your driver's license, I am pretty sure you have to show it or lose your license and face prosecution 

 

 The failure to provide driver license statute is A.R.S. 28-1595(B). This statute requires that a driver, when stopped by law enforcement, must provide his or her driver license

thats not obeying just because that is a law.  a cop cannot come up to you and just tell you to do things just because they feel like it.

[dcar00 13996]

54 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Tyreek was an asshole to them. He was not completely complying. But there was a point where he got the message where he was like "ok bro alright bro". At that point the escalation needs to end. He got the message. Everything that happened after that point was pretty egregious. It's clear there was no danger and he was ready to comply.

that didn't happen until they opened the door, grabbed him and THEN TH started to verbally comply.  The problem for Tyreek was all his "get hard" bullshit up to that.  The officers absolutely could have just opened the door and said get out but they had already determined he wasn't going to get out on his own.

the officers are going to be reprimanded is my guess.

was Tyreek doing 125?

[Keef 754]

For all the people defending the cops on this thread, I'm eagerly awaiting an explanation as to why Calais Campbell got cuffed. 

[Gidnik 3248]

And the cop already had his id

[dcar00 13996]

5 minutes ago, Keef said:

For all the people defending the cops on this thread, I'm eagerly awaiting an explanation as to why Calais Campbell got cuffed. 

agree that this will be interesting.

[FartingMonk 3606]

Tyreek was being obnoxious, but I think the most telling thing was when he was cuffed and that cop was trying to get him to sit and he said hey watch it.  I just had surgery on my knee.  The cop said something like you must've had surgery on the ear too.  That's not how it fucking works.  The cop was pissed at was not trying to deescalate the situation.  He snuck in a lock when he didn't have to.  That cop was a dick and probably has beaten people before.

[Texasborn91 896]

Cops suck ass. But I also don’t drive 100 mph+ and be shitty when a cop pulls me over. Stfu and pay your ticket that is literally Pennies to you. 

[hookemATL 11582]

3 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

Cops suck ass. But I also don’t drive 100 mph+ and be shitty when a cop pulls me over. Stfu and pay your ticket that is literally Pennies to you. 

Whoosh

[hornbri 1348]

16 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

Cops suck ass. But I also don’t drive 100 mph+ and be shitty when a cop pulls me over. Stfu and pay your ticket that is literally Pennies to you. 

Why do people keep saying this? Where has it been alleged he was driving 100+ the cops haven’t even said that and in the longer video you have this (and no cops have disputed this). 

Quote

The body camera footage showed a flurry of activity after Mr. Hill’s detention, with a gaggle of officers and other people arriving to the sidewalk outside the stadium. The audio of some of the conversations between the detaining officer and other officers was redacted.At one point, as Mr. Hill was being interviewed by an officer, he said, “I was going 55 on a 40,” referring to how fast he was driving.

55 in a 40 folks…

[hornbri 1348]

Quote

Video shows that two motorcycle officers went after Hill after he appeared to speed past them at in his McLaren sports car on the roadway entering Hard Rock Stadium in light traffic — they later said they clocked him at 60 mph (97 kph). They turned on their lights and pulled Hill over. One knocked on the driver’s window and told him to put it down, which Hill did and handed him his driver’s license.

Another source saying 60mph https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/sports/ap-tyreek-hill-was-not-immediately-cooperative-with-officers-during-stop-police-union-says/

 

[Nivek 16753]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Tyreek was an asshole to them. He was not completely complying. But there was a point where he got the message where he was like "ok bro alright bro". At that point the escalation needs to end. He got the message. Everything that happened after that point was pretty egregious. It's clear there was no danger and he was ready to comply.

Considering what I expected this wasn't that egregious.  I figured they would beat his ass with truncheons and taze him when he was unconscious.   They just roughed him up a bit, and didn't even give him the head slam into the back roof of the cop car or a body slam.  This was likely because of his fame/car he was driving/size.    I learned a long time ago that motorcycle cops were dicks.   And that the unhinged cop approaching the other car and taking charge, while the calmer cop backs off, it exactly what one should expect from our dysfunctional police force.  

The other-side of me kind of wanted the motorcycle dick to arrest him just for saying "bro" and "man" excessively.    

It is hard to be sympathetic to him though, IIRC he abused women and kids.  Still, would prefer our cops to be better people, hire better people, and not try to "dominate" every situation.  

 

Edited September 10 by Nivek

[Pam Cummings 9527]

23 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

Cops suck ass. But I also don’t drive 100 mph+ and be shitty when a cop pulls me over. Stfu and pay your ticket that is literally Pennies to you. 

Why do people post such obvious nonsense without fact checking? Just think about the absurdity of what you're suggesting. If someone was Ruggsing it through a 40 mph zone, they deserve a beating. However, a simple reading of the police report says he was 15 mph over the limit.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

Why do people post such obvious nonsense without fact checking? Just think about the absurdity of what you're suggesting. If someone was Ruggsing it through a 40 mph zone, they deserve a beating. However, a simple reading of the police report says he was 15 mph over the limit.

See, this is where I struggle without an obvious sarcasm indicator. You talk about nonsense and absurdity, then say someone deserves a beating for speeding, which is clearly nonsensical absurdity. It’s all so confusing. 

[Pam Cummings 9527]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

See, this is where I struggle without an obvious sarcasm indicator. You talk about nonsense and absurdity, then say someone deserves a beating for speeding, which is clearly nonsensical absurdity. It’s all so confusing. 

It's just a joke man, relax. Driving 100 in a 40 is a straight to jail situation, which is why I find it hilarious that anyone would even suggest that is what happened. 

Edited September 10 by Pam Cummings

[Davis Lane 5538]

14 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

i believe it was a nothing burger stop even though they were already irritated after being told by the NFL star to quit knocking on his window like that...but rolling it back up in their face was enough to activate the power trip.

 

both sides made a mountain out of an ant hill, could've been avoided had tyreek answered why he didnt have a seatbelt on and had his window down

Nope and nope.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

It's just a joke man, relax. Driving 100 in a 40 is a straight to jail situation.

Like I said, people here are saying such stupid things, it’s hard to tell sarcasm from idiocy. Didn’t want to jump to conclusions. 

[gofuckyourself 8098]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Tyreek was an asshole to them. He was not completely complying. But there was a point where he got the message where he was like "ok bro alright bro". At that point the escalation needs to end. He got the message. Everything that happened after that point was pretty egregious. It's clear there was no danger and he was ready to comply.

 

1 hour ago, mwaadeeb said:

Not rolling the window down was dumb, but the cop pulling him out of the car before TH had the chance to get out, even worse. Fuck that cop and fuck the system that defends him.

There's a lot of "This is true and this is true and this is true" in the video, and the thread. And very little of it is all on the same side.

There's also a lot of blind people ignoring the obvious, unless the viewpoint -- without facts in this specific case to back it up -- is that they pulled him over because he's black. Which could happen.

But what IS visible and known is

- a driver is pulled over by a policeman for, presumably, a moving violation.

- a lot of motorcycle cops there (4?) and more than seemed usual for a moving violation.

- first thing I heard is Hill be confrontational to a cop who -- it seems -- hadn't done anything up to that point other than ask for information. Hill's first words were "Don't knock on my window like that!" and say it repeatedly and then I can't hear what's said until "Go do what you gotta do" and Hill rolls the window back up.

- Officer orders him to roll it back down. Hill doesn't. He opens it a crack and says "don't tell me what to do."

- After that the cops definitely escalate, because that's what cops do when given THE SLIGHTEST provocation to do so.

So would anyone here be fine on ACTING like Hill acted here? Regardless of what the cop did afterwards, none of which I'm justifying.

If it were my kid who did any of these things I'd tell him he was being an utter moron.

30+ years ago I was taught in driver's Ed to NOT do things that provoked or caused alarm during traffic stops. We were taught to roll down the window, stay in the car, keep your hands visible and provide your license and registration and wait. And I'm a white dude and do those things every damn time. I'll teach my kids to do those things every damn time.

Because even 30, 40 plus years ago it was known not to provoke a cop.

Does it make the cops "right" in this situation or many others? Nope.

But the whole "What if I wasn't Tyreek Hill?" response afterword is just stupid, and completely irresponsible for anything he did. "I didn't do nothin."  Yeah you did. You were speeding. You then acted like a confrontational dick who obviously also wanted to start something or "make a point." 

Also if you weren't Tyreek "I've been accused of beating women, children and marina employees and breaking laws and breaking arms and breaking legs" Hill, maybe nothing more happens because then you don't do things to escalate it by being an asshole. And being Tyreek Hill in those previous situations actually helped your ass out a lot. Because other guys accused repeatedly of violence and breaking arms, legs and assaulting staff etc wouldn't have a job or be free men still.

 

TLDR; dumbasses and assholes deserve each other.

Edited September 10 by gofuckyourself
too many damn words

[Pam Cummings 9527]

2 minutes ago, gofuckyourself said:

 

There's a lot of "This is true and this is true and this is true" in the video, and the thread. And very little of it is all on the same side.

There's also a lot of blind people ignoring the obvious, unless the viewpoint -- without facts in this specific case to back it up -- is that they pulled him over because he's black. Which could happen.

But what IS visible and known is

- a driver is pulled over by a policeman for, presumably, a moving violation.

- a lot of motorcycle cops there (4?) and more than seemed usual for a moving violation.

- first thing I heard is Hill be confrontational to a cop who -- it seems -- hadn't done anything up to that point other than ask for information. Hill's first words were "Don't knock on my window like that!" and say it repeatedly and then I can't hear what's said until "Go do what you gotta do" and Hill rolls the window back up.

- Officer orders him to roll it back down. Hill doesn't. He opens it a crack and says "don't tell me what to do."

- After that the cops definitely escalate, because that's what cops do when given THE SLIGHTEST provocation to do so.

So would anyone here be fine on ACTING like Hill acted here? Regardless of what the cop did afterwards, none of which I'm justifying.

If it were my kid who did any of these things I'd tell him he was being an utter moron.

30+ years ago I was taught in driver's Ed to NOT do things that provoked or caused alarm during traffic stops. We were taught to roll down the window, stay in the car, keep your hands visible and provide your license and registration and wait. And I'm a white dude and do those things every damn time. I'll teach my kids to do those things every damn time.

Because even 30, 40 plus years ago it was known not to provoke a cop.

Doesn't it make cops "right" in this situation or many others. Nope.

But the whole "What if I wasn't Tyreek Hill?" response afterword is just stupid, and completely irresponsible for anything he did. "I didn't do nothin."  Yeah you did. You were speeding. You then acted like a confrontational dick who obviously also wanted to start something or "make a point." 

Also if you weren't Tyreek "I've been accused of beating women, children and marina employees and breaking laws and breaking arms and breaking legs" Hill, maybe nothing more happens because then you don't do things to escalate it by being an asshole. And being Tyreek Hill in those previous situations actually helped your ass out a lot. Because other guys accused repeatedly of violence and breaking arms, legs and assaulting staff etc wouldn't have a job or be free men still.

 

TLDR; dumbasses and assholes deserve each other.

There's a game on Thursday. Bright and shiny object. This will be well in the rear view by then.

[DaggerHorns 3046]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

So there's a few things going on here that are all conflated and causing a lot of arguments and confusion and circular arguments. 

1) Tyreek hill acted like an entitled jackass and this obvious agitation worked against him. 

2) Cop acted unprofessionally on video and made poor judgements that are clear in hindsight, but were also fairly easy to recognize without hindsight. 

3) Nothing illegal happened after the stop or during the body cam footage. Tyreek is allowed by law to be a jackass and allowed to comply only with lawful orders and the cop is allowed by law to gain compliance with basic orders. 

So let's change 2 small things about the scenario and see how it is still wrong and how it could have possibly been right. 

Change 1) tyreek is still a dick to the officer but doesn't roll his window up and tells the cop he's calling his lawyer and wants some privacy, but is willing to comply if the police need additional information outside of what his lawyer says is needed with a warrant or probable cause. Basically the most legal dickhead you can possibly be, but still giving the cops what they need to feel secure and like they are in control of the stop. 

Cop looks even worse. Same end result. 

Change 2) tryeek has a firearm in his vehicle that he does not declare and show proper identification (if necessary in Florida ), upon being removed it is visible in the floorboard of the car.

Cop not a bad guy, actions justified, but still sketchy at best. 

The issue is that change #2 is what every cop thinks is going to happen every single time, because they don't want to get shot. 

What if the cops were just really really kind with tyreek?

What if tyreek was just really really kind with the cop?

I think @MNLonghornFUKM is arguing for decency in all situations not just this one and that's why he sounds like an obnoxious dick. He's not packaging the message right, because he like many is frustrated with how everyone is always acting like a fucking dick all the time. He isn't defending the police he's saying if everyone was decent to eachother this wouldn't happen. 

I think there are some others in this thread that are holding the police to the decency standard as a professional standard and this comes from the same source of frustration that people just are shitty to eachother by default nowadays and when you combine that with authority it is a really bad mix. 

 

This couldn’t be said better. It’s ok for everyone to acknowledge that both of them acting very poorly. Not every issue and every thing has one side to it.
 

You posed the question “what if they were really really kind to each other?” This would have completely changed everything.

Pig: “Hey, I understand you were speeding, you’re going to get a ticket and we’ll send you on your way.”

Tyreek: “yeah, bruh, I was trying to get away from my 7 baby mamas and I have a game to get to”

Pig: “sounds good, here’s your ticket.”

Peace…

[Pam Cummings 9527]

1 minute ago, DaggerHorns said:

This couldn’t be said better. It’s ok for everyone to acknowledge that both of them acting very poorly. Not every issue and every thing has one side to it.
 

You posed the question “what if they were really really kind to each other?” This would have completely changed everything.

Pig: “Hey, I understand you were speeding, you’re going to get a ticket and we’ll send you on your way.”

Tyreek: “yeah, bruh, I was trying to get away from my 7 baby mamas and I have a game to get to”

Pig: “sounds good, here’s your ticket.”

Peace…

There's no room for your nuance here, sir. Pick a side!

[markstanco 12464]

1 hour ago, Gidnik said:

under no circumstance is anyone required by law to obey any law enforcement person just because they say so. 

This is TikTok think.  If it is a lawful order, you better comply.  

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

10 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

There's no room for your nuance here, sir. Pick a side!

There’s plenty of “he was a douche, but this wasn’t justified” here. Both sides could’ve handled it better. One side has the training, the guns, and the power of the state behind them. That’s where I’ll place the fault for how this ended up. 

[immamac 42378]

4 minutes ago, markstanco said:

This is TikTok think.  If it is a lawful order, you better comply.  

Nah. You only have to make sure orders are related to the security and safety of the stop and don't interfere with the officer doing their job without infringing on your rights. 

It's perfectly legal to sing its a small world after all at the top of your lungs and stop when a cop asks you shut up. 

Is it stupid and escalatory? Yes. 

Compliance does not mean do as the officer commands. 

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Violating your civil rights is against the law, hope that helps

His civil rights were not violated

[immamac 42378]

3 minutes ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

His civil rights were not violated

This. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? 

Officer Dickhead is gonna get at minimum leave without pay and likely terminated. Tyreek has a bruised ego. Its a nothing burger. 

[Chopper 17050]

1 hour ago, Keef said:

For all the people defending the cops on this thread, I'm eagerly awaiting an explanation as to why Calais Campbell got cuffed. 

It's probably Florida's new so-called buffer zone law. New Florida law creates buffer zone around first responders, police (tallahassee.com)

[Chopper 17050]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

That’s the fucking problem and why so many people hate police.

A huge proliferation of guns has broken our society. I don't hate the police for issuing traffic citations nor for wanting drivers to be cooperative when they're pulled over. I hate the police for being murderous thugs who stick together like mafioso, having the power to avoid almost all legal accountability, and how police departments suck up huge portions, quite often a majority, of any city's budget.

[Laxtonto 11900]

 

I am going to wait until some super nerd out there determines how fast he was actually going, but I am guessing he was going at least 30+ over the construction zone. Also interestingly enough his window was all the way down open while the motorcycle cop was approaching him... Both groups are dipshits here, and I am going to stay out of the fight about hows the bigger idiot at this point.

[ChiTownDoc 21050]

A lot of words and posts when ‘fuck the police’ would suffice.  

[Derka 5839]

 

[CoTex 1157]

My hot take:

A seizure for a traffic violation justifies a police investigation of that violation. 

That's straight from Ruth Bader Ginsburg's pen.  Rodriguez v. United States.  United States Supreme Court. April 21, 2015.

So, 

1.  Was there a traffic violation?  Cops sure seem to think so.  I bet they win that one.

2.  Does that entitle them to "seize" Hill and his vehicle?  Seems implicit from RBG's quote.

3.  Is an investigation into that violation justified?  RBG says so.

What is an "investigation?"

Beyond determining whether to issue a traffic ticket, an officer’s mission includes ordinary inquiries incident to the traffic stop. Typically such inquiries involve checking the driver’s license, determining whether there are outstanding warrants against the driver, and inspecting the automobile’s registration and proof of insurance. These checks serve the same objective as enforcement of the traffic code: ensuring that vehicles on the road are operated safely and responsibly. A warrant check makes it possible to determine whether the apparent traffic violator is wanted for one or more previous traffic offenses.

So, cop gets to check driver's license, check warrants, inspect registration and insurance.

I went back and watched video.  First thing that happens when window rolls down is cop notices no seatbelt.  Now we're at 2 tickets - speeding and seatbelt.

Then Hill rolls window up.  At this point in time, cop still has job to do/right to check driver's license, check warrants, inspect registration and insurance.

You can see Hill in the car moving around and putting on his seatbelt.

Cop tells him to roll down/keep down the window, at least 3 times.

Then Cop tells him to get out of the car at least 5 times before cop 2 opens the door.

Everything goes off the track...  cops aren't backing down now.

Noteworthy:  Florida state courts have described "refusing commands to roll his window down, unlock his door, and hang up his phone" as "resistance."

If we're arguing the "what should be" in this country, you can throw all of the above out.

If we're debating the "what is," I think the Supremes and Florida court would say

"These cops were on a lawful mission and Hill's refusing commands to roll his window down/exit the car was resistance/obstruction to/of that lawful mission."

 

I'll let someone else roll out what happens when you resist/obstruct a cop in pursuit of a lawful mission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chopper 17050]

5 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

insistence that the officers legally can take the action they took is flat wrong

You don't believe the cops can order him to roll down his window, or to step out of the vehicle? Because that's flat wrong. When I watched the video I saw the cops group behavior as a disorganized shitshow, where they seemed to botch how to handle and organize a traffic stop, but nothing they did to the driver in the first minute of the video seemed to violate any of his rights.

[CoTex 1157]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

I think there are some others in this thread that are holding the police to the decency standard as a professional standard and this comes from the same source of frustration that people just are shitty to eachother by default nowadays and when you combine that with authority it is a really bad mix. 

 

This is a really good point but I think there is another, lower, layer to this.  I think a cop can likely violate "professional standards," and still be within the law.  Maybe even egregiously violate professional standards.  They get a pretty broad immunity and they know it.

I raise this because I personally think our society should consider paying cops more but also reducing their immunity.  More reward, more risk.

[Helobious 9461]

It’s just a scary thing to see. You’d hope people that are always armed, in a position of authority, and have the full weight of the law on their side would have a little bit thicker skin when dealing with civilians for a non-violent offense. If you let them continue to exert control with impunity I think it leads to a bad place. Hill was a dipshit but it didn’t warrant him being treated that way. 

[Dbeasy 14928]

11 minutes ago, Chopper said:

You don't believe the cops can order him to roll down his window, or to step out of the vehicle? Because that's flat wrong. When I watched the video I saw the cops group behavior as a disorganized shitshow, where they seemed to botch how to handle and organize a traffic stop, but nothing they did to the driver in the first minute of the video seemed to violate any of his rights.

They can do that. Many other things they did during the stop violate procedure. That’s the issue you aren’t comprehending. 

Also, it’s quite reasonable to criticize the officer’s actions but still have no sympathy for Hill, who FAFO’d, due to his disrespectful behavior. He definitely was also at fault. The problem is that the officer is trained to handle those situations and handled it outside of procedures. 

And just a reminder to those unaware, my company would research and provide body cam and dashcam video to police departments for internal officer investigations of officer violations. I’m not just talking out of my ass. 

[gofuckyourself 8098]

23 minutes ago, immamac said:

This. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? 

Officer Dickhead is gonna get at minimum leave without pay and likely terminated. Tyreek has a bruised ego. Its a nothing burger. 

This is sarcasm right? Why it is being made a big deal:

1) Handcuffing a pro football player on camera just before he plays in an NFL game.

2) Said football player already being a magnet for controversy and having multiple prior run-ins with police and the law with accusations of significant domestic abuse and illegal actions.

3) Afterwards a spotlight is put on it by his employer with a formal statement condemning the police. Hill adds to it "What if I wasn't Tyreek Hill?" and that he would be dead if he wasn't who he is.

4) Acho, sports "news" outlets and other instigators posting it all over with words like "disgusting."

5) Non-athletes and athletes, some with hundreds of thousands of followers, amplify it and repeat that it's disgusting and disturbing.

6) People, given some of the above and past provoking incidents involving cops and arrests and black people, decide to be provoked and make it a big deal without thinking "Oh. Looks like both sides were fucking dumbasses. How about that. So what's for dinner?"

[immamac 42378]

What a completely idiotic post. Lol