Nerdsplaining Movie Plot Holes

[Parliament 14283]

Was Deckard a replicant or not? And if not, why do they say there were six Nexus 6 that escaped, but then later say five?

2049 pretty much told us he isn't. I think?

[Surly Bevo 25116]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

Could be a dude. Could be a really ugly lady.

If that's a lady Ma Fratelli just lost her spot as the ugliest woman in film.  

[CooterBrown 18022]

Was Deckard a replicant or not? And if not, why do they say there were six Nexus 6 that escaped, but then later say five?

It was a poorly written script that Scott later tried to fix by editing new cuts due to it becoming a cult favorite.

[Rougarou 594]

Just saw an older movie that was great called The Prestige.

The questions I have are as follows that felt too plot hole-ish for me:

1) Why is there confusion or discrepancy about what kind of knot Borden tied on Dantone's wife? She's dead, everyone is there, how are they not able to quickly deduce the root cause of the problem was she couldn't slip the knot because the knot was not the standard and easy knot to slip?

2) ScarJo's character doing the double-agent thing. So she had no prior relationship to Bordon before Dantone sent her to him to be a spy? She had already fallen for Borden by the time she gave him the fake diary, is that right?

3) How did the Mandarin Chinese guy do the goldfish bowl trick?

[Gene Parmesan 4011]

6 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Just saw an older movie that was great called The Prestige.

The questions I have are as follows that felt too plot hole-ish for me:

1) Why is there confusion or discrepancy about what kind of knot Borden tied on Dantone's wife? She's dead, everyone is there, how are they not able to quickly deduce the root cause of the problem was she couldn't slip the knot because the knot was not the standard and easy knot to slip?

2) ScarJo's character doing the double-agent thing. So she had no prior relationship to Bordon before Dantone sent her to him to be a spy? She had already fallen for Borden by the time she gave him the fake diary, is that right?

3) How did the Mandarin Chinese guy do the goldfish bowl trick?

It's been a while since I've seen it so...

1)  I don't think it was anything significant other than at the end we find out Borden had a twin and they regularly swapped places, so when Jackman's character asked Borden he didn't know because he was asking the wrong guy.

2)  Yes

3) He carried it between his legs.  The trick was he always had to present himself as a feeble old man, so the audience would never suspect that he was carrying such a heavy object between his legs.  His entire life was devoted for that trick.  Same with both Bordens.

[ztejas 43526]

16 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Just saw an older movie that was great called The Prestige.

I just saw this older film that was kind of like an Opera in space. Star Battle or Galaxy Wars or something? Anyway...

 

[Rougarou 594]

How did he know that Borden would go down there to frame him?

Also, would he have to calibrate the machine to put him in a different area to make it look like a busted trick?

[Billy Pilgrim 1984]

15 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It's been a while since I've seen it so...

1)  I don't think it was anything significant other than at the end we find out Borden had a twin and they regularly swapped places, so when Jackman's character asked Borden he didn't know because he was asking the wrong guy.

2)  Yes

3) He carried it between his legs.  The trick was he always had to present himself as a feeble old man, so the audience would never suspect that he was carrying such a heavy object between his legs.  His entire life was devoted for that trick.  Same with both Bordens.

Great explanations- I hadn’t even thought about #1 being one twin tied the knot so the other didn’t know what knot was tied.

[Rougarou 594]

25 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It's been a while since I've seen it so...

1)  I don't think it was anything significant other than at the end we find out Borden had a twin and they regularly swapped places, so when Jackman's character asked Borden he didn't know because he was asking the wrong guy.

2)  Yes

3) He carried it between his legs.  The trick was he always had to present himself as a feeble old man, so the audience would never suspect that he was carrying such a heavy object between his legs.  His entire life was devoted for that trick.  Same with both Bordens.

Regarding your number 1 it definitely is significant because in Jackman's characters mind, Bale ruined his life and killed his wife because he suspected that Bale used a difficult knot that he mentioned earlier in the film instead of the easy peasy one to slip. This set the maniac, one-up-menship rivalry in motion

My main question is how does he not know which knot was used when he was there at his wife's hands and feet when she died and thereafter? How did a coroner and everyone else not identify a root cause for why/how the trick failed and mention the knot?

Edited May 10, 2019 by Rougarou

[Gene Parmesan 4011]

18 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

How did he know that Borden would go down there to frame him?

Also, would he have to calibrate the machine to put him in a different area to make it look like a busted trick?

Because Jackman knew Borden was obsessed with finding out his trick.  Jackman knew he would spot the trapdoor and investigate, but the trap door wasn't the trick it was the cleanup.  I don't think he had to calibrate he just never came back out to reveal, and Borden was left down there with a drowned body.  Maybe he did have to calibrate but either way he knew how to do so, because it had to be calibrated multiple times.  Once by Tesla and again by Jackman after he first tested.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Gene Parmesan

[Gene Parmesan 4011]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Regarding your number 1 it definitely is significant because in Jackman's characters mind, Bale ruined his life and killed his wife because he suspected that Bale used a difficult knot that he mentioned earlier in the film instead of the easy peasy one to slip. This set the maniac, one-up-menship rivalry in motion

My main question is how does he not know which knot was used when he was there at his wife's hands and feet when she died and thereafter? How did a coroner and everyone else not identify a root cause for why/how the trick failed and mention the knot?

I see what your asking.  As far as that goes I think it was just movie drama.  I didn't mean the death wasn't significant just that the knot question wasn't.  I think it was just a ploy for when Borden answers he doesn't know he isn't lying.  I don't even know if that's accurate or not.  I just assumed.  Jackman blames Borden and that sends him on a downward spiral that he has not intention of stopping.

[Gene Parmesan 4011]

I haven't seen it in awhile, but maybe she works through the more difficult knot enough to not be able to tell?

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:16 AM, mdmost said:

Could be a dude. Could be a really ugly lady.

team it was a lady

[Gene Parmesan 4011]

If you enjoyed The Prestige and you haven't seen The Illusionist I would check it out.  Similar themes but also very well done and great acting.

[mdmost 43015]

How Jessica Biel hides all that badonkadonk is a trick I'd like to figure out. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Great explanations- I hadn’t even thought about #1 being one twin tied the knot so the other didn’t know what knot was tied.

 

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

Regarding your number 1 it definitely is significant because in Jackman's characters mind, Bale ruined his life and killed his wife because he suspected that Bale used a difficult knot that he mentioned earlier in the film instead of the easy peasy one to slip. This set the maniac, one-up-menship rivalry in motion

My main question is how does he not know which knot was used when he was there at his wife's hands and feet when she died and thereafter? How did a coroner and everyone else not identify a root cause for why/how the trick failed and mention the knot?

 

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I see what your asking.  As far as that goes I think it was just movie drama.  I didn't mean the death wasn't significant just that the knot question wasn't.  I think it was just a ploy for when Borden answers he doesn't know he isn't lying.  I don't even know if that's accurate or not.  I just assumed.  Jackman blames Borden and that sends him on a downward spiral that he has not intention of stopping.

Borden (Bale) was protecting his twin secret. 

stolen from google which explains it. 

Quote

16

I think one of the twin brother is not good at tying the knot, which is evident as said by Cutter: 

"Some nights you just can't get it, can you? If that knot slips when Julia's on the hoist she'll break a leg". 

So that night the twin brother who is not good at tying simple knots tied the knot. Both of the twin brothers are probably good at tying Langford double, so Borden proposes a change in the knot which eventually Cutter rejects.

In the next show of the same trick, as per answer here the twin brother who is good at simple knots is present and he tied a simple knot (also gave a glance to Julia without knowing the discussion his twin brother had after the previous show regarding the knot). Julia thought (per glance from Borden) that its a Langford double and underwater in the tank she tried to use Langford untie technique, but by the time she realized that's its a simple knot it was too late.

 

[Go Pokes 979]

ou sucks

[Surly Bevo 25116]

ou sucks

Iron clad plot point. Fantastic story telling.

[Go Pokes 979]

ou sucks

[Augustus 3061]

In the 1953 film of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. the film opens with Caesar's triumphal parade as it arrives in the Forum Romanum in AD 46.

At which time, Caesar and his procession march beneath an enormous statue of........Augustus, who at the time was a 16-year-old boy named Gaius Octavius.

While this may be more of an anachronism, it qualifies as plot hole in so far as it was fucking impossible.  

To top it off, in a later scene you can observe a marble bust of Imperator Marcus Aurelius, by which point you'll turn the movie off in disgust.

[Surly Bevo 25116]

User name and point of disgust align

[Mojo Hand 4580]

In Honey I Shrunk the Kids, Rick Moranis says that his machine decreases or increases the space between the molecules in things.   If so, how could they enjoy a giant expanded turkey at the end?   Wouldn't it be the same amount of turkey matter, only filled with more air, like bread? 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

16 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

In Honey I Shrunk the Kids, Rick Moranis says that his machine decreases or increases the space between the molecules in things.   If so, how could they enjoy a giant expanded turkey at the end?   Wouldn't it be the same amount of turkey matter, only filled with more air, like bread? 

It’s a shortcut to turkey sandwiches.  

[Not a cat 5678]

On 5/10/2019 at 4:07 PM, gyroprotagonist said:

team it was a lady

I will not have anyone besmirching the masculinity of the great Patrick Durkin.  He trained at the London Academy for that role.

 

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0244190/?ref_=m_ttfcd_cl15

[Guest Lobo]

Plus, he's wearing Blackwatch over Clan Macleod tartans.  You know the fucking balls it takes to pull that off?  

[Longhorn Fever 267]

On 4/14/2019 at 11:16 AM, mdmost said:

Could be a dude. Could be a really ugly lady.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 1:21 PM, Surly Bevo said:

If that's a lady Ma Fratelli just lost her spot as the ugliest woman in film.  

 

On 5/10/2019 at 5:07 PM, gyroprotagonist said:

team it was a lady

 

On 7/7/2019 at 1:52 PM, Not a cat said:

I will not have anyone besmirching the masculinity of the great Patrick Durkin.  He trained at the London Academy for that role.

 

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0244190/?ref_=m_ttfcd_cl15

 

It's Pat.

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Longhorn Fever
Oops, a day late

[WhatTheBuck 28795]

Julia Sweeney is beautiful. 

 

[dcbc 14507]

On 4/14/2019 at 12:21 PM, Surly Bevo said:

If that's a lady Ma Fratelli just lost her spot as the ugliest woman in film.  

It's a dude.  The character is the "Australian Climber," who is portrayed in the movie by Patrick Durkin.

He does look a little bit like Napoleon's Grandma.

[dcbc 14507]

On 7/7/2019 at 12:52 PM, Not a cat said:

I will not have anyone besmirching the masculinity of the great Patrick Durkin.  He trained at the London Academy for that role.

 

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0244190/?ref_=m_ttfcd_cl15

Crap, you beat me to it.

Delete post; ban user; refund tree-fiddy.

[sheeeit 129]

On 9/30/2018 at 5:41 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Except they were even at the start.  

#explainfail

great flick obviously.   Biggest plot fail is that if Mike had been on a draw he could have just folded.  He still had a big stack.  But the movie has to end.

[MrBig 5424]

On 7/6/2019 at 7:43 PM, Mojo Hand said:

In Honey I Shrunk the Kids, Rick Moranis says that his machine decreases or increases the space between the molecules in things.   If so, how could they enjoy a giant expanded turkey at the end?   Wouldn't it be the same amount of turkey matter, only filled with more air, like bread? 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Seems inconsistent.

Quote

Hello, little man. Boy, I sure heard a bunch about you. See, I was a good friend of your dad’s. We were in that Hanoi pit of hell together over five years. Hopefully, you’ll never have to experience this yourself, but when two men are in a situation like me and your Dad were, for as long as we were, you take on certain responsibilities of the other. If it had been me who had not made it, Major Coolidge would be talking right now to my son Jim. But the way it turned out is I’m talking to you, Butch. I got something for you.

This watch I got here was first purchased by your great-grandfather during the first World War. It was bought in a little general store in Knoxville, Tennessee. Made by the first company to ever make wrist watches. Up till then people just carried pocket watches. It was bought by private Doughboy Ernie Coolidge on the day he set sail for Paris. It was your great-grandfather’s war watch and he wore it every day he was in that war. When he had done his duty, he went home to your great-grandmother, took the watch off, put it an old coffee can, and in that can it stayed until your granddad Dane Coolidge was called upon by his country to go overseas and fight the Germans once again. This time they called it World War II. Your great-grandfather gave this watch to your granddad for good luck. Unfortunately, Dane’s luck wasn’t as good as his old man’s. Dane was a Marine and he was killed, along with the other Marines at the battle of Wake Island. Your granddad was facing death, he knew it. None of those boys had any illusions about ever leaving that island alive. So three days before the Japanese took the island, your granddad asked a gunner on an Air Force transport name of Winocki, a man he had never met before in his life, to deliver to his infant son, who he’d never seen in the flesh, his gold watch. Three days later, your granddad was dead. But Winocki kept his word. After the war was over, he paid a visit to your grandmother, delivering to your infant father, his dad’s gold watch.

This watch. This watch was on your daddy’s wrist when he was shot down over Hanoi. He was captured, put in a Vietnamese prison camp. He knew if the gooks ever saw the watch it’d be confiscated, taken away. The way your dad looked at it, that watch was your birthright. He’d be damned if any slopes were gonna put their greasy yellow hands on his boy’s birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something. His ass. Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.

 

[Surly Bevo 25116]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Rougarou 594]

The entire premise of "Us" is a plot hole. I don't even know where to begin.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Will Fredrick Zoller’s unexpected appearance in the projector room throw off the plot?  Shosanna is certainly worried his presence will screw things up.

Wait.  She didn’t even have a meaningful role other than being a normal projectionist.    It goes off without a hitch, even with her dead.   

[Nole-4-Life 804]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:12 AM, Rougarou said:

The entire premise of "Us" is a plot hole. I don't even know where to begin.

Watched that over the weekend. It was a decent premise, but fell apart at the end bigtime. IMO.

[Rougarou 594]

57 minutes ago, Nole-4-Life said:

Watched that over the weekend. It was a decent premise, but fell apart at the end bigtime. IMO.

I don't even think the premise is that good. The whole thing is a complete mess and is the most overrated sack of crap I've seen bandied about as avant garde and great since the Kanye Yeezus album.

Did Lupita act her balls off (no assumption of gender tho)? Absolutely. She was nails and took the character down to the wire. She should have been awarded and she was applauded.

Were some of the cultural winks and nods fun, in and of itself? Sure. Were the visuals and easter eggs fun? Yea, okay. But it was a messy, sloppy and unfulfilling patchwork of big ideas and intentions that didn't work? Absolutely. 

If Get Out wasn't so dang good we'd never even be having his conversation, but Us sucked. Sorry but true.

[Nole-4-Life 804]

17 hours ago, Rougarou said:

I don't even think the premise is that good. The whole thing is a complete mess and is the most overrated sack of crap I've seen bandied about as avant garde and great since the Kanye Yeezus album.

Did Lupita act her balls off (no assumption of gender tho)? Absolutely. She was nails and took the character down to the wire. She should have been awarded and she was applauded.

Were some of the cultural winks and nods fun, in and of itself? Sure. Were the visuals and easter eggs fun? Yea, okay. But it was a messy, sloppy and unfulfilling patchwork of big ideas and intentions that didn't work? Absolutely. 

If Get Out wasn't so dang good we'd never even be having his conversation, but Us sucked. Sorry but true.

Agree...I said decent premise...not good or excellent. After Get Out I expected so much more.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Someone pointed out to me that Raiders of the lost Ark would have turned out the exact same without Indiana Jones at all. It bugged the hell out of me. It occurred to me this morning with the same is true about Inglourious Basterds. Shoshana had the Nazis taken care of. 

[Surly Bevo 25116]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Someone pointed out to me that Raiders of the lost Ark would have turned out the exact same without Indiana Jones at all.

Tell that to the monkey who died from the bad dates.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9348]

Raiders is obviously a brilliant movie & suspending belief is a requirement but easily done because it's such a fantastic ride, but the one fuck up that gets harder & harder for me to swallow each time is the Well of the Souls and its location.

The Germans are digging all over the desert & cant find it. They dont have the complete medallion that Indy uses in the map room to locate the exact point. Indy and Sallah dig on the outskirts of the site unnoticed by Belloq and the nazis. But when they're discovered & trapped underground by Belloq they escape through the snake walls then quickly climb to the surface & push aside a huge stone to reveal...they're 50 yards from a German airstrip. WTF?

[WhatTheBuck 28795]

Raiders is a children's movie. I loved it as a kid. I even snuck my Super8 movie camera into the theatre to film the climactic scene where they open the Ark. But as an adult it just doesn't hold up. It's actually pretty cheesy and, if we're being perfectly honest with ourselves, a lot of the effects are kind of lame. So is the acting and much of the dialog. Did I say much? Maybe most. I'll stick with much just to err on the side of caution.

I never owned the DVD because, when it came out, you couldn't buy Raiders by itself. You had to buy the whole trilogy. Even as an adolescent I thought the sequels sucked so I didn't waste my money. I guess they did me a favor. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

31 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Raiders is obviously a brilliant movie & suspending belief is a requirement but easily done because it's such a fantastic ride, but the one fuck up that gets harder & harder for me to swallow each time is the Well of the Souls and its location.

The Germans are digging all over the desert & cant find it. They dont have the complete medallion that Indy uses in the map room to locate the exact point. Indy and Sallah dig on the outskirts of the site unnoticed by Belloq and the nazis. But when they're discovered & trapped underground by Belloq they escape through the snake walls then quickly climb to the surface & push aside a huge stone to reveal...they're 50 yards from a German airstrip. WTF?

Yeah, well of the souls confused me even as a kid, just watching Indy take a whole group of guys to work within sight of the Nazis and no one said anything. 

[WhatTheBuck 28795]

2 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Someone pointed out to me that Raiders of the lost Ark would have turned out the exact same without Indiana Jones at all. It bugged the hell out of me. It occurred to me this morning with the same is true about Inglourious Basterds. Shoshana had the Nazis taken care of. 

American cinema would have turned out the exact same without Quentin Tarantino. 

[dcbc 14507]

54 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Raiders is obviously a brilliant movie & suspending belief is a requirement but easily done because it's such a fantastic ride, but the one fuck up that gets harder & harder for me to swallow each time is the Well of the Souls and its location.

The Germans are digging all over the desert & cant find it. They dont have the complete medallion that Indy uses in the map room to locate the exact point. Indy and Sallah dig on the outskirts of the site unnoticed by Belloq and the nazis. But when they're discovered & trapped underground by Belloq they escape through the snake walls then quickly climb to the surface & push aside a huge stone to reveal...they're 50 yards from a German airstrip. WTF?

It's always in the last place you look.

[Parliament 14283]

And why did they tie him and is GF up before they opened the Ark? Why not, you know, kill him?

[GhostOfTomJoad 9348]

And why did they tie him and is GF up before they opened the Ark? Why not, you know, kill him?

That actually makes sense. The nazis plan was to weaponize whatever came out of the ark. Having a couple of sacrificial subjects at hand for testing would be handy. "Yo, angel of death...kill those two." Indy and Marion were no threat & had nothing to do with the nazisbeing wiped out.

[hayden_horn 11365]

3 hours ago, Parliament said:

And why did they tie him and is GF up before they opened the Ark? Why not, you know, kill him?

and how did indy know that they would be safe if they didn't look? might be a line left on the cutting room floor? who knows?

that movie has a soft spot in my cold black heart for inspiring me as a kid, but it is a bit of a mess, even as a classic film. without indy, the nazi's kill marion, take her medallion (where and why she has it is never really established, is it?) and find the ark, open it, face melting intensifies, and then the ark either fades into obscurity in whatever desert valley in which they opened it, or the nazis hide it away, lose the war, and the us recovers it and puts TOP MEN on it rolling it into the warehouse.

let's not even get into the submarine thing.

[mdmost 43015]

3 hours ago, Parliament said:

And why did they tie him and is GF up before they opened the Ark? Why not, you know, kill him?

There was a cutscene where Imam tells Indy and Sallah they cannot touch or look inside the Ark, lest they face the wrath of God. 

Quote

The dangers of the Ark

A plot element involving the Ark of the Covenant was cut from the film and is only hinted at during the finale when the Ark is opened. Basically, there were 2 rules about the Ark not mentioned in the final cut of the film: If you touch the Ark, you die. If you look at the Ark when it is opened, you die. This is first explained in additional dialogue for the scene when Indy and Sallah visit Imam. Before translating the writings on the headpiece that give the height of the Staff of Ra, Imam warns Indy not to touch the Ark or look at it when it is opened. The next scene involving this Ark subplot is when Sallah and Indy remove the Ark from the Well of the Souls. When Sallah first sees it he reaches out to touch it. Indy stops him before he does and reminds him of Imam's warning. Then they insert long poles through each side of the Ark to lift it out of its crypt. Notice that nobody ever touches the Ark throughout the rest of the film until the finale.

They also were supposed to film a scene with Indy riding on the top of sub as it stays at periscope depth.

Quote

The periscope ride

This is the most well-known of the Indy cut scenes, by virtue of being the one most crucial to the plot. This scene explains how Indy survived his trip at sea attached to a submerged submarine. As the sub descends, he climbs up and grabs hold of its extended periscope. He then lashes himself to it with his whip for the long trip. In the final film, the plot hole goes largely unnoticed. Most people seem to assume either that Indy snuck inside the sub or that it stayed on the ocean surface for the duration of the trip. This cut scene did appear in the Marvel Comics adaptation. The few pictures that we have found prove that they indeed film part of this scene.

 

[Biff Tannen 45702]

You are all heathens.