Pipeline Explosion in Deer Park

[huge 3793]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'd call apple and nvidia both tech firms because their primary product is tech. Exxon and ETP both have O&G as a primary product, and is therefore an O&G firm.

It seems weird to carve it out just because it isn't a fully vertically integrated operation. Is it like they need to have a fully realized hydrocarbon value chain complete with conveinence stores to meet your definition?

 

Anywho, why the fuck do yall care so much? Or is this just rex doing his pissant thing?

Rex.

Also it sounds like a freak accident, one that could have potentially been avoided if they had just guarded against the elderly woman sneak attack plot.  Lots of industrial facilities have hardened fence exteriors but a whole shitload do not.

Their stock price has gone down some, that has to make you feel a little better?

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Or is this just rex doing his pissant thing?

[Captainant 27619]

2 minutes ago, huge said:

Rex.

Also it sounds like a freak accident, one that could have potentially been avoided if they had just guarded against the elderly woman sneak attack plot.  Lots of industrial facilities have hardened fence exteriors but a whole shitload do not.

Their stock price has gone down some, that has to make you feel a little better?

I'm moreso just baffled how such a critical and sensitive valve has zero physical protections in place. Doesn't heavy equipment operate on those sites? It's shocking that there would be no bollards or physical barrier protecting that infra.

Is it standard procedure to run a 1400PSI pipeline through a residential area with effectively zero physical protection? I am incredulous that it could be just normal to have giant exposed weak points all over the country running in between neighborhoods.

Edited September 18 by Captainant

[Rex Kramer 1330]

26 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

What was in that pipeline again? 
 

 

Sorry it’s just horrendously pedantic to think a midstream pipeline company like ET isn’t also a “O&G firm”

It’s a midstream company, and more specifically a transportation company. It does not produce hydrocarbons. It is very understood that oil and gas companies are producers. They are not ET, or a services company like Halliburton, or a retail electric provider like Centerpoint. These are idiotic comments by people who have no understanding of the industry. 

[gsoda3 3245]

6 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

I get what you are saying, and for people “in the biz” (used to be me) there’s a difference, but for 99% of the population, it doesn’t make a shit. If your firms pipeline is carrying natural gas and it’s burning out of control, O&G firm you are…

 

 

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'd call apple and nvidia both tech firms because their primary product is tech. Exxon and ETP both have O&G as a primary product, and is therefore an O&G firm.

It seems weird to carve it out just because it isn't a fully vertically integrated operation. Is it like they need to have a fully realized hydrocarbon value chain complete with conveinence stores to meet your definition?

 

Anywho, why the fuck do yall care so much? Or is this just rex doing his pissant thing?

 

5 minutes ago, royiv said:

Would your say that Apple and Nvidia are both tech companies?

 

They're both in the tech sector.  Apple's a consumer electronic company.  Nvidia's a semiconductor company.  Exxon and ETP are both in the oil and gas sector.  Exxon's the world's largest integrated energy firm.  ETP is a midstream operator.    

 

I'm in finance, not energy.  The label "oil and gas firm" has a distinct standard that will make you look like a first day hire if used in the wrong way.  I'm surprised at the blowback and unwillingness to acknowledge an innocent misconception as if that discredits whatever point you're trying to make. 

 

 

[huge 3793]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

It’s a midstream company, and more specifically a transportation company. It does not produce hydrocarbons. It is very understood that oil and gas companies are producers. They are not ET, or a services company like Halliburton, or a retail electric provider like Centerpoint. These are idiotic comments by people who have no understanding of the industry. 

I know the difference.  But most don't care about the distinction.

 

Thank the heavens we got that sorted.   Anything else to add?

 

 

[royiv 9241]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

 

 

 

They're both in the tech sector.  Apple's a consumer electronic company.  Nvidia's a semiconductor company.  Exxon and ETP are both in the oil and gas sector.  Exxon's the world's largest integrated energy firm.  ETP is a midstream operator.    

 

I'm in finance, not energy.  The label "oil and gas firm" has a distinct standard that will make you look like a first day hire if used in the wrong way.  I'm surprised at the blowback and unwillingness to acknowledge an innocent misconception as if that discredits whatever point you're trying to make. 

 

 

The point that I was trying to make is, who gives a flying fuck? A pipeline exploded, people’s shit is getting wrecked and the air quality in Houston takes another hit and people are squabbling about what an O&G company is. Maybe focus on the events at hand instead of dumb semantics.

Edited September 18 by royiv

[elfenix 34221]

27 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

What was in that pipeline again? 
 

 

Sorry it’s just horrendously pedantic to think a midstream pipeline company like ET isn’t also a “O&G firm”

This is the Internet, horrendously pedantic is what we do

[gsoda3 3245]

3 minutes ago, royiv said:

The point that I was trying to make is, who gives a flying fuck? A pipeline exploded, people’s shit is getting wrecked and the air quality in Houston takes another hit and people are squabbling about what an O&G company is. Maybe focus on the events at hand instead of dumb semantics.

Right, because this is taking away from the repair efforts at Deer Park. I know people don't like acknowledging mistakes so if you want to move on just move on, you don't need to keep arguing. 

[Hate 20106]

That pipeline was pretty damn far away from any traffic. The fence was sufficient for many years.

 

 

[RPM 26315]

They should have built a thunderdome over it. This was obviously bound to happen without one.

[Captainant 27619]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

That pipeline was pretty damn far away from any traffic. The fence was sufficient for many years.

"I always drive carefully. I've been fine not wearing a seatbelt for years" Just because something has always been done one way doesn't mean it's the best or safest way to do it. 

And I again ask: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

 

That's one hell of a public subsidy to allow an extremely hazardous pipeline through a residential area.

[Rex Kramer 1330]

39 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

I get what you are saying, and for people “in the biz” (used to be me) there’s a difference, but for 99% of the population, it doesn’t make a shit. If your firms pipeline is carrying natural gas and it’s burning out of control, O&G firm you are…

99% of people are energy idiots, yet spout off about “O&G firms”.

38 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'd call apple and nvidia both tech firms because their primary product is tech. Exxon and ETP both have O&G as a primary product, and is therefore an O&G firm.

It seems weird to carve it out just because it isn't a fully vertically integrated operation. Is it like they need to have a fully realized hydrocarbon value chain complete with conveinence stores to meet your definition?

 

Anywho, why the fuck do yall care so much? Or is this just rex doing his pissant thing?

My comment above describes why I care. You in particular mouth off and you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. For example, your middle paragraph is way off. There are very few integrated firms, and even that’s a misnomer. Integrateds, often called majors(Exxon, Chevron), aren’t even fully integrated in that they don’t own/operate pipelines. Because pipelines are highly specialized. O&G companies can do very poorly while simultaneously, midstream companies can be flourishing. 

The appropriate, all-encompassing descriptor is to talk about “Energy” companies. Midstream companies are most certainly NOT Oil and Gas companies. 

[Rex Kramer 1330]

30 minutes ago, royiv said:

The point that I was trying to make is, who gives a flying fuck? A pipeline exploded, people’s shit is getting wrecked and the air quality in Houston takes another hit and people are squabbling about what an O&G company is. Maybe focus on the events at hand instead of dumb semantics.

You should aim your venom at Captainant, who ignorantly mouthed off and fucked it up in the first place. I responded with a one-liner, and that clown doubled down. Sorry not sorry.  

[Captainant 27619]

3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

99% of people are energy idiots, yet spout off about “O&G firms”.

My comment above describes why I care. You in particular mouth off and you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. For example, your middle paragraph is way off. There are very few integrated firms, and even that’s a misnomer. Integrateds, often called majors(Exxon, Chevron), aren’t even fully integrated in that they don’t own/operate pipelines. Because pipelines are highly specialized. O&G companies can do very poorly while simultaneously, midstream companies can be flourishing. 

The appropriate, all-encompassing descriptor is to talk about “Energy” companies. Midstream companies are most certainly NOT Oil and Gas companies. 

 

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

You should aim your venom at Captainant, who ignorantly mouthed off and fucked it up in the first place. I responded with a one-liner, and that clown doubled down. Sorry not sorry.  

So rather than engage on my questions around pipeline locations and hardening, you're just being a pissant and latching onto an arbitrary industry-specific labeling. Lol in my team at my job both of those firms are in the "oil and gas" cluster of companies. I'll let them know that their entire business plan is invalid because of this oversight.

 

I'll ask again, knowing that portahouse won't answer: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

[tx ind 7006]

Just now, Captainant said:

 

So rather than engage on my questions around pipeline locations and hardening, you're just being a pissant and latching onto an arbitrary industry-specific labeling. Lol in my team at my job both of those firms are in the "oil and gas" cluster of companies. I'll let them know that their entire business plan is invalid because of this oversight.

 

I'll ask again, knowing that portahouse won't answer: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

Yes they are everywhere

[huge 3793]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

 

So rather than engage on my questions around pipeline locations and hardening, you're just being a pissant and latching onto an arbitrary industry-specific labeling. Lol in my team at my job both of those firms are in the "oil and gas" cluster of companies. I'll let them know that their entire business plan is invalid because of this oversight.

 

I'll ask again, knowing that portahouse won't answer: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

Sometimes the neighborhoods come after.  Not sure about this case.

[RPM 26315]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

allow an extremely hazardous pipeline through a residential area.

There are transmission pipelines running through lots of residential areas. Most were there before the homes were built. I have 4 that run across my property. A 5th one got yanked out of the ground and ruptured when a bulldozer caught an unmarked valve with it's ripper. Thank God it was decommissioned, but it still spewed out shit for hours. I was mudfarming drilling mud back then. The dozer operator never told anyone what he was going to do and left without telling anyone. He was suppossed to run a disc and plow it in. It was a helluva sight to see when I got home from work.

[Hate 20106]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

So rather than engage on my questions around pipeline locations and hardening, you're just being a pissant and latching onto an arbitrary industry-specific labeling. Lol in my team at my job both of those firms are in the "oil and gas" cluster of companies. I'll let them know that their entire business plan is invalid because of this oversight.

 

I'll ask again, knowing that portahouse won't answer: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

No. This was the only one in the entire country.

[elfenix 34221]

Rex'd

[Captainant 27619]

3 minutes ago, RPM said:

There are transmission pipelines running through lots of residential areas. Most were there before the homes were built. I have 4 that run across my property. A 5th one got yanked out of the ground and ruptured when a bulldozer caught an unmarked valve with it's ripper. Thank God it was decommissioned, but it still spewed out shit for hours. I was mudfarming drilling mud back then. The dozer operator never told anyone what he was going to do and left without telling anyone. He was suppossed to run a disc and plow it in. It was a helluva sight to see when I got home from work.

Buried and underground, I understand running through a residential area. If you need to come above ground and expose it near neighborhoods, that's one hell of a public subsidy to not require those firms to carry a ton of insurance and/or harden the weak points in case of what's still burning in Deer Park.

1 minute ago, Hate said:

No. This was the only one in the entire country.

Hey man, it's in one of the most cancer-infested parts of Houston that's been getting the benefits of O&G industry for decades. It was an honest question if something so neglectful to public safety was unique to Houston

[Rex Kramer 1330]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

So rather than engage on my questions around pipeline locations and hardening, you're just being a pissant and latching onto an arbitrary industry-specific labeling. Lol in my team at my job both of those firms are in the "oil and gas" cluster of companies. I'll let them know that their entire business plan is invalid because of this oversight.

 

I'll ask again, knowing that portahouse won't answer: is it normal to have these massively high pressure pipelines laid in between neighborhoods? It seems like a MAJOR operational security risk, not to mention the ongoing disaster that was getting entire homes close to autoignition temperature. 

I don’t know about their business plan. But that categorization is definitely retarded and reflects a gross misunderstanding that you continue to smugly run your mouth about. 

I haven’t answered your question because a) I don’t give a shit about it, or your attempt to re-direct the conversation away from your idiocy, and b) I’m not in the midstream business and won’t comment on stuff I don’t fully understand. I’m in the oil and gas business. 

[Hate 20106]

While I can appreciate the severity of this situation and feel terribly for the families impacted, this is a fairly unique event. I don’t think it requires any kind of an overreaction. Those valves are pretty ubiquitous and are pretty safe until some old lady has a medical event and plows into it while driving backwards from a shopping center. 

[Rex Kramer 1330]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Buried and underground, I understand running through a residential area. If you need to come above ground and expose it near neighborhoods, that's one hell of a public subsidy to not require those firms to carry a ton of insurance and/or harden the weak points in case of what's still burning in Deer Park.

Hey man, it's in one of the most cancer-infested parts of Houston that's been getting the benefits of O&G industry for decades. It was an honest question if something so neglectful to public safety was unique to Houston

Second paragraph, wrong again, you fucking antagonistic idiot. It’s in the epicenter of the midstream, refining and petrochemical industries of the US. There are no oil and gas fields in Deer Park to my knowledge and if there are, they are not prolific. 

[wildcat09 29338]

[Captainant 27619]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

Second paragraph, wrong again, you fucking antagonistic idiot. It’s in the epicenter of the midstream, refining and petrochemical industries of the US. There are no oil and gas fields in Deer Park to my knowledge and if there are, they are not prolific. 

Holy shit next you're gonna say refineries aren't O&G either lmao

 

methinks the portahouse doth protest too much.

[huge 3793]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

 antagonistic 

sublime

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Holy shit next you're gonna say refineries aren't O&G either lmao

 

methinks the portahouse doth protest too much.

and you aren't helping either 

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21867]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Holy shit next you're gonna say refineries aren't O&G either lmao

That's the downstream sector of the O&G Industry

[Rex Kramer 1330]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Holy shit next you're gonna say refineries aren't O&G either lmao

 

methinks the portahouse doth protest too much.

Um, they absolutely are not. Did you lose a bet where you had to intentionally make an ass of yourself today?

Why are you calling me portahouse over and over again?

Just now, NeverMarryAStripper said:

That's the downstream sector of the O&G Industry

Correct but I’d call it the energy industry. O&G is limited to upstream. 

[bolverk 29644]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Buried and underground, I understand running through a residential area. If you need to come above ground and expose it near neighborhoods, that's one hell of a public subsidy to not require those firms to carry a ton of insurance and/or harden the weak points in case of what's still burning in Deer Park.

Hey man, it's in one of the most cancer-infested parts of Houston that's been getting the benefits of O&G industry for decades. It was an honest question if something so neglectful to public safety was unique to Houston

20-25 years ago, there was a big story in Austin about the Longhorn Pipeline that passes through a chunk of Baja South Austin. If I recall correctly, it was originally built to carry crude oil between the Permian Basin and the Gulf. When it was brought back to life, homeowners and the City had concerns about leaks from this old pipeline because (in its second iteration) the plan was to carry gasoline in the opposite direction under much higher pressure passing within only a few feet of people's backyards within Austin and through environmentally sensitive aquifer recharge zones. I think it was converted once again at some point back to oil, and it eventually did leak somewhere in the Hill Country. Fortunately, it was oil instead of gasoline so it caused less of a mess.

At any rate, I think there was a big legal battle pitting the City of Austin, homeowners, and Hill Country landowners against the pipeline company that dragged out for a while, and obviously the latter ended up winning after giving reassurances that they'd improve the pipeline so that it wouldn't leak, which it eventually did. Apparently, some quirks in Texas law give pipeline companies extraordinary powers that extend to even having the power of eminent domain, so I guess the point of this post is simply to say do your due diligence and don't buy homes/buildings/land where oil & gas pipelines were or might be built because your property rights are secondary to theirs.

[fattyflattie 4639]

38 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's one hell of a public subsidy to allow an extremely hazardous pipeline through a residential area.

 

17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If you need to come above ground and expose it near neighborhoods, that's one hell of a public subsidy to not require those firms to carry a ton of insurance and/or harden the weak points in case of what's still burning in Deer Park

Yes, we get it.  It is subsidized and someone, somewhere is making a dollar so it’s evil. I’m sure the fine folks in those Deer Park neighborhoods never understood there’s 1,243,473 pipelines running thru the middle of their community - just totally hoodwinked and bamboozled by Big Oil and its oligarchs. I bet they were specially told there was no pipelines there - what an injustice. 
How long does it take to put on your clown makeup every day? 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21867]

7 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Um, they absolutely are not. Did you lose a bet where you had to intentionally make an ass of yourself today?

Why are you calling me portahouse over and over again?

Correct but I’d call it the energy industry. O&G is limited to upstream. 

I would consider the Energy Industry to include renewables and coal.  Upstream, Midstream, and Downstream are sectors of the O&G Industry.

[Rex Kramer 1330]

1 minute ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I would consider the Energy Industry to include renewables and coal.  Upstream, Midstream, and Downstream are sectors of the O&G Industry.

I would too. But O&G is limited to upstream. 

[Captainant 27619]

7 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Why are you calling me portahouse over and over again?

Because your last account was porterhouse before you "quit" and came back as rex. And thank you for the thorough and tactful education that the only people allowed to call themselves members of the illustrius O&G industry are producers.

[bolverk 29644]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

I would too. But O&G is limited to upstream. 

I'm not in the industry but grew up with it all around me, and I always considered E&P to be the upstream portion of the broader O&G industry.

[RPM 26315]

22 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If you need to come above ground and expose it near neighborhoods, that's one hell of a public subsidy to not require those firms to carry a ton of insurance and/or harden the weak points in case of what's still burning in Deer Park.

All pipelines have above ground valves and pig ports for maintenance. The largest line that crosses my place (8 inch) has one about 1/2 mile away. It has a chainlink fence for protection. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm not in the industry but grew up with it all around me, and I always considered E&P to be the upstream portion of the broader O&G industry.

 

has always been my understanding as well. Source: I used to work for a company that provided various software solutions mostly to E&P firms.

Edited September 18 by Evil Bill Obrien

[Rex Kramer 1330]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Because your last account was porterhouse before you "quit" and came back as rex. And thank you for the thorough and tactful education that the only people allowed to call themselves members of the illustrius O&G industry are producers.

How many times can you be wrong and smug on one page?

Just now, bolverk said:

I'm not in the industry but grew up with it all around me, and I always considered E&P to be the upstream portion of the broader O&G industry.

A better argument and you and NMAS are clearly more educated on the topic. We’re getting into semantics territory a bit. But there is often very little communication between upstream and midstream. They’re totally different businesses. Midstream I view as a tollway charging a tariff. They don’t often take commodity price risk. Upstream is totally different.  Midstream players are not a part of the oil and gas industry. They’re part of the pipeline, midstream or infrastructure industry. 

[Rex Kramer 1330]

3 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

 

has always been my understanding as well. Source: I used to work for a company that provided various software solutions mostly to E&P firms.

[Fucking Idiot]So you were a billionaire O&G guy?  Good to know![/Captainant]

[royiv 9241]

WTF does this protracted discussion of what is or isn’t O&G have to do with the current events in Deer Park? This discussion is a beating. 

[SurlyGator 864]

'Apples vs Apples' vs 'Apples vs Oranges' talk not going away...

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

All pipelines have above ground valves and pig ports for maintenance.

Fucking PHMSA and their lack of gaf about the safety or regulation of pipelines.  It’s about time we demand this government run entity much more heavy handed.  Someone needs to be held accountable for these subsidized freak accidents.  Also, should we be burying lines anymore?  I know you are required to do an 811, but imagine if someone excavated into one…

[Hate 20106]

9 minutes ago, RPM said:

All pipelines have above ground valves and pig ports for maintenance. The largest line that crosses my place (8 inch) has one about 1/2 mile away. It has a chainlink fence for protection. 

Why is it not guarded 24x7 by Seal Team 6? I know there are a lot of old people in North Texas.

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, royiv said:

WTF does this protracted discussion of what is or isn’t O&G have to do with the current events in Deer Park? This discussion is a beating. 

About as much as the discussion hardening every pig trap and riser across America because clownworld. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

9 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

[Fucking Idiot]So you were a billionaire O&G guy?  Good to know![/Captainant]

I wish…defiantly wouldn’t be wasting time at work on this thread if I was a billionaire (midstream) O&G guy…or would I??

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

9 minutes ago, royiv said:

WTF does this protracted discussion of what is or isn’t O&G have to do with the current events in Deer Park? This discussion is a beating. 

As a somehow favorite professor of mine at the Harvard of the Hill Country Texas State once said: “we aren’t talking about what the grass is, we are talking about what the grass IS”

Can’t wait to /Thread this once the stupid fire is finally out

[Captainant 27619]

It's always a good time when fatty comes around and misrepresents what I posted about hardening sites near neighborhoods to instead be every site everywhere. And double lulz for citing a safety regulatory body that lost its ability to regulate thanks to the Loper decision, while getting indignant about someone being accountable to this disaster.

 

My bad for being surprised that it's perfectly normal to have zero physical barriers to protect a valve holding back 2 days (and counting) worth of 1400psi gas in the middle of residential area.

Edited September 18 by Captainant

[Dahobbs 17521]

14 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

A better argument and you and NMAS are clearly more educated on the topic. We’re getting into semantics territory a bit. But there is often very little communication between upstream and midstream. They’re totally different businesses. Midstream I view as a tollway charging a tariff. They don’t often take commodity price risk. Upstream is totally different.  Midstream players are not a part of the oil and gas industry. They’re part of the pipeline, midstream or infrastructure industry. 

I don't know, Energy Transfer Partners seems to feel differently. It posted a YouTube video entitled "We're Proud to be a Leader in the Oil & Gas Industry"

I don't really get why this is so contentious either way. 

[Hate 20106]

The accountable person likely died in the explosion. 

[HenryJames 66033]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

The accountable person likely died in the explosion. 

Sort of envy him that he didn't have to read this thread.