Old and Starting "over"

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

I own a business (concrete constru tion) and my business partner wants to quit. He is 72 and I am 57.

The business has kind of diminished over the years and is really not worth anything without us running it, except for some salvaged equipment.

I own the business office and land and have been told it is worth between 2-2.5 million.

I am a CPA, but have not practiced in decades as my job duties were estimating and project managemnt in the concrete construction business.

My old 401k is light about 130g.

My wife and I have a nice house, but it is too big and we want to get out of Texas and sell it and pocket the difference for retirement and  ollege fund.

My wife is seriously contemplating divorce right now as seen in the divorce thread.

I haven't slept well in awhile and this job has worn me out.

I am contemplating my options.

Will anyone even hire someone like me?

[Newdoc 3429]

Stressful situation for sure. Can you parlay your experience into another similar sized business that needs your experience? At 57, networking and smaller companies is likely the way to go. Hiring at large companies is going to have ageism even if you can’t prove it.

[immamac 42400]

What do you do for the concrete construction business?

[CleverNickname 1286]

Seems like you might walk away with a million in cash (the real estate), half the value of a house, and $64k in 401k. That ain't half bad, I reckon. 

[Updawg 2254]

Can you go work for a competitor in some function? Seems like they might want you

[Updawg 2254]

I’m in a similar boat and started a post retirement thread a while ago. I haven’t figured out anything yet

[Incredulity 11446]

6 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Will anyone even hire someone like me?

Assuming based on your age and description you know the concrete industry well in your area I would bet there is an up and comer in the market you could work with/for.  

[Updawg 2254]

If the lake dries up Nicole could use you to dispose of her problems

[Dbeasy 14931]

My sister in law lost her job with a construction company at age 57 and found a job within 3 months. Depending on what you did for the company, you could probably catch on with a concrete company. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26188]

I am 51. I put the torch to my job security, title and prestige, 25 years of experience, towering reputation and all my contacts, and completely changed careers at the beginning of this year.

I’m terrified and working my ass off. For the first time in over 15 years I don’t have headhunters calling me on the regular, nobody cares what I say or think, I’m not in the circle of people who are part of important decisions and I’m usually the last to find out. My boss gives me marching orders through my younger peers and I get sonned daily by 35 year olds who are much more accomplished than I am and make way more than me. 

It’s invigorating!

I’ve got 15 years of real working life in me and life is too short not to have maximum fun and chase one last big score. I think this is an opportunity for you.

Edited September 21 by Bozo_Casanova

[cactusflinthead 27588]

6 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

we want to get out of Texas and sell it and pocket the difference

Start there. What happens if you split up?

Do you want to stay or go? 

I feel fairly confident you can find a gig. The question is where and if you are going solo. 

Do you like this gig? Do you want to go live in a yurt and grow shrooms? 

Just because you have been in the construction business you have inside information. You know how it works. That's a valuable skill set. 

But, none of it is going to make a difference until you know where you stand with the marriage. 

If you need some reassurance that you can start a new job. Well yeah man. Might even be a good one. Get on out there and get some. 

But, you have a lot of decisions to make before then 

 

[Parliament 14086]

If there's much chance of divorce, get you an attorney who has experience handling the divorces of business owners.  Take the steps in the wrong order and she's gonna fleece you even better.

And good luck.  Shit sucks.  Sorry.

[Hefeweizen 5306]

Sheeeit we’re all getting old.  Serious answer, figure out your home stuff first.  You may not want to move if you split with your wife.  Can you buy out your partner?  Do you want to?  
 

I know someone like Greater Austin would kill for a concrete guy who knows his stuff.  There are not enough to go around.  But having been an owner could you be an employee?  It’s a completely different situation and mentality.

 

 Good luck man, lots of tough decisions ahead.

[Muny_Tex 290]

^^Good advice about RE: keeping horse in front of the cart.  Any newfound career success will eventually be canceled out if your home/relationship status is not on solid footing.

Certainly wise to begin researching/networking + exploring new credentials or certifications that may assist in your transition, but I would not take any bold leaps until you reach finality with your business partner and the old lady.

Not to derail the dialogue, but do YOU still want to be married?  If the answer is yes (and your wife hasn't already checked out), then you might try and see if there are elements of this career rebuild + personal reset that may be conducive to a similarly fresh start/new chapter in your marriage that yall can partner on building together.  

 

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

Great comments. I will try to answer some questions and elaborate.

I have not put any feelers out to other businesses in the area, but I am encouraged by the comments.

After talking to a commercial developer yesterday, I am a quite a bit less optimistic about the value of the office/land.  Realistically, I could sell as is for 1M  max and lease for for 10K/m max.  But depending on desperation factors maybe half that.

Our concrete business does commercial and residential work. Our largest job to date was $5 million and we just finished on that was 1.6. So there have been some good times for sure.

Because of the long term nature and the stress of big jobs, I have been concentrating on warehouse finish outs etc., but the money not great.

I want to stay married, wife wants out.  I have been checked out for a couple of years. We are going to counseling, but I think her problems with me run prettty deep.

We have two high school boys as well and we are not sure what their plans are.

So there is a lot going on all at once and it is pretty stressful, especially because these issues were caused by poor planning and problem avoidance.

[52-80 19047]

My spouse accepted a promotion yesterday that will have her out-earning me.  

My advice is to find a new broad who brings home the bacon so you don’t have to. 

Edited September 21 by 52-80

[Bozo_Casanova 26188]

2 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I want to stay married, wife wants out.  I have been checked out for a couple of years. We are going to counseling, but I think her problems with me run prettty deep.

My wife and I went through this a few years ago and stayed together. Ironically we went through a phase where she had fully come around and I wasn’t sure. At any rate, a couple things I learned along the way that would have been good to know going in:

1) Obviously toxic behaviors and trauma are tangible things a counselor can work with, but the goal of counseling is not to fix personalities. 80-90% of the shit that bothers each of you about the other is fundamental to who they are. Counseling can help you understand each other better and separate what you can live with and what you can’t.
 

2) The counselor is not there to save your marriage to either of your detriment, but to help you discern your direction as two people. They don’t really do advice, but it’s perfectly ethical for a counselor to steer a couple towards divorce if that’s the path they are struggling to accept.

3) You can’t really park your career/professional life while you hash out the future of your relationship. Especially as an entrepreneur your business is too deeply embedded into your identity for that to be realistic. It’s perfectly fine to decide to figure out one before the other but it’s likely they are deeply interconnected and that resolution for one will relate in some way to resolution for the other.

Edited September 21 by Bozo_Casanova

[RDCanecutter 26198]

The concrete car business is wide open.

[Snake Diggity 4607]

Not trying to derail OP’s thread, but his post is part of a lot of anecdotal and statistical evidence I’ve seen over the last couple of years that right now is a pretty bad time to be a 45-65 year old worker.  I think elements of that are true at all times but if you look at current demographic data it makes even more sense these days.  The Boomers are hanging around and have a lot of the good jobs and there are a shitload of Millenials who now have good experience and are finally motivated to move up the ladder, so Gen X’ers (people aged 45-60) are getting squeezed.  I think that will change in 5-10 years as most Boomers are forced to retire and their jobs open up and the generations coming behind the Millenials are smaller and smaller.  (AI/automation could fuck that up and take away a lot of jobs.)

I don’t have good advice for OP since he’s older and in a different situation to any I’ve ever been in, but if I were giving advice, I’d agree with almost everyone else here: figure out your marriage first, then figure out your career.  In terms of career, I’d say if your heart isn’t in continuing on your business, I bet you’ll be able to find a job in construction management of some kind, but you’ll have to have pretty low expectations; it always takes longer to find something and it’s never as good a job as you hoped for when you started looking.

[Reagan1k 3005]

What does your partner want to buy him out?

What does he take out of the business and what do you take out? 
 

What would it cost to replace his work, with a less experienced and younger employee who might want to grow into the owner one day? 

[Dbeasy 14931]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Not trying to derail OP’s thread, but his post is part of a lot of anecdotal and statistical evidence I’ve seen over the last couple of years that right now is a pretty bad time to be a 45-65 year old worker.  I think elements of that are true at all times but if you look at current demographic data it makes even more sense these days.  The Boomers are hanging around and have a lot of the good jobs and there are a shitload of Millenials who now have good experience and are finally motivated to move up the ladder, so Gen X’ers (people aged 45-60) are getting squeezed.  I think that will change in 5-10 years as most Boomers are forced to retire and their jobs open up and the generations coming behind the Millenials are smaller and smaller.  (AI/automation could fuck that up and take away a lot of jobs.)

I don’t have good advice for OP since he’s older and in a different situation to any I’ve ever been in, but if I were giving advice, I’d agree with almost everyone else here: figure out your marriage first, then figure out your career.  In terms of career, I’d say if your heart isn’t in continuing on your business, I bet you’ll be able to find a job in construction management of some kind, but you’ll have to have pretty low expectations; it always takes longer to find something and it’s never as good a job as you hoped for when you started looking.

And just to add to that, it’s the first generation with no pensions for most workers. All of the boomers over 65 have pensions. It’s tough for the age group coming in behind them. 

[Wally Fairway 5508]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

And just to add to that, it’s the first generation with no pensions for most workers. All of the boomers over 65 have pensions. It’s tough for the age group coming in behind them. 

What world do you live in that all boomers over 65 have pensions? Pretty broad paintbrush there bro. I'm 66, and none off my peers have a pension. My buddies are 72-59, almost all are professionals - accountants, lawyers, salesmen, HR, operations MGMT, etc) the corporate world largely got ride off pensions in the 80s.

One company I was with was sold and pensions were frozen, I'm now getting$73) month - that doesn't really count. 

Everybody I know is counting on SS and 401k/IRA

[Dbeasy 14931]

12 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

What world do you live in that all boomers over 65 have pensions? Pretty broad paintbrush there bro. I'm 66, and none off my peers have a pension. My buddies are 72-59, almost all are professionals - accountants, lawyers, salesmen, HR, operations MGMT, etc) the corporate world largely got ride off pensions in the 80s.

One company I was with was sold and pensions were frozen, I'm now getting$73) month - that doesn't really count. 

Everybody I know is counting on SS and 401k/IRA

56% of people 65 and older have pensions. In my view that’s massive. 60 and younger, less than 20%. 
 

 

[Wally Fairway 5508]

That I believe, for the record 56% is not all.

But then maybe you are a politician, selling an idea.

[Dbeasy 14931]

27 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

That I believe, for the record 56% is not all.

But then maybe you are a politician, selling an idea.

Good lord lighten up Francis. Everyone is just a generic term to convey that a lot of people had pensions and doesn’t literally mean everyone. Quit being so literal. 

[tx 3 putt 75959]

a divorce will fuck you over, hard 

[52-80 19047]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

a divorce will fuck you over, hard 

Atleast the dude finally gets fucked

[StassneyHorn 6515]

Figuring out what a division of assets would look like post sale of the business would be top of mind. May make a difference if after the divorce occurs. 58 seems old for a divorce, but a man will have options while a woman is less likely. I have no experience with that, just something to think about.

[52-80 19047]

My employer switched away from defined benefits pension in the mid 90s to D.C. and 401k model.

@Reagan1khas a good post in the neighboring thread about their being unsustainable. In the 1950 post-war economic boom, the average lifespan was ~65y. In 1990 when that cohort retired, the average lifespan was up to ~75 and steadily increasing. The eligibility age didn't increase by 10 years. The math for a perpetual payout plan just doesn't pencil out unless you drastically lower the benefits.

Having people get out from the pot what they put in seems a fair agreement. 

[RDCanecutter 26198]

Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! For I have a pension.

It comes to about a hundred bucks a month. I got it by working the bare minimum at a private school with an archaic pension plan.

Still, a hundred bucks. Not like I'd see that on the sidewalk and just walk on by.

[UT_OB1 2198]

13 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

56% of people 65 and older have pensions. In my view that’s massive. 60 and younger, less than 20%. 
 

 

You’re relying on Google AI info?…ffs. Also, 56% don’t mean shit even if it’s real when majority of them were frozen 30-40 years ago. 

[52-80 19047]

Older BLS Employee Benefits Survey

1980: 87% of employees participated in pension plans.  Essentially, all were DB as DC as a concept didnt exist (?).  52% based on terminal earning, 32% based on dollar amount formula, 14% based on career earning formula

1985: 80% were covered by DB pension

1989: 63% participation in DB pensions; 48% in DC pensions. (things like profit sharing count, and so sum can exceed 100%)

1995: 50% of full-time employees had access to DB pension plans

Newer BLS National Compensation Survey

All private industry workers participating in defined benefits pensions, 1999-2006: ~20%.  Series EBUDBINC000000AP

All private industry workers with access to defined benefits pensions, 2010-2024: 19-15%.  Series NBU21900000000000028290

 

If you're 65 now, you started a full time job in circa 1980.  You would have had 15+ years of participation in a DB plan.  And if my employer is like many other employers, you would have continued staying grandfathered into that plan. Same goes if you're ~50 y/o and joined in 1995. 

The winding down of the DB plan (from 1995-->today) transitioning to DC only pertained to employees who joined after that point.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13388]

@Jiggy-Z is your older partner the one with the sales/client relationships or is that you? If it’s him and he wants out, I assume the business is effectively over. If it’s you, look to sell the company, and you agree to hang around for a few years to transition the business. For a good salary assuming you retain the business.

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

@Jiggy-Z is your older partner the one with the sales/client relationships or is that you? If it’s him and he wants out, I assume the business is effectively over. If it’s you, look to sell the company, and you agree to hang around for a few years to transition the business. For a good salary assuming you retain the business.

I am the sales guy.

The company is really nothing more than some equipment, some receivables, and  cash and a few relationships.

If I were starting a company like mine, I wouldn't buy it...just grow it by hiring and making conections.

[Parliament 14086]

A good salesman with a loyal client base is valuable to someone else.  Plenty of other contractors who would hire you.  Might be refreshing for you personally was well.  Gotta get the divorce finances figured out first though.

[pops 6971]

15 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I am the sales guy.

The company is really nothing more than some equipment, some receivables, and  cash and a few relationships.

If I were starting a company like mine, I wouldn't buy it...just grow it by hiring and making conections.

So if you are sales and estimator what does he do? Labor?  Do you do flatwork? forms? batchplant with mixers?  Employees? 1099 out the labor?  

[SimonBolivar 10890]

Is there regionality to the pension statistics? I work with a ton of seniors in Texas and there are very few pensions that I see outside of TRS or other government related programs. I would assume union shops in other states would have a higher %.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13388]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

Is there regionality to the pension statistics? I work with a ton of seniors in Texas and there are very few pensions that I see outside of TRS or other government related programs. I would assume union shops in other states would have a higher %.

I have to think that private employees in Texas, specifically brand new employees to an employer, have defined benefit pensions in the very low single digits today.

[52-80 19047]

2 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Is there regionality to the pension statistics? I work with a ton of seniors in Texas and there are very few pensions that I see outside of TRS or other government related programs. I would assume union shops in other states would have a higher %.

https://data.bls.gov/dataViewer/view/timeseries/NBU21900000000001428290

Percent of private industry workers with access to defined benefit plans in the West South Central census area: 11%

 

You can also query union vs non-union stuff, people with frozen plans, people with grandfathered plans frozen to new employees, etc.  It's a clunky tool and the underlying survey changed over time so different data are available in different time period and with different search conditons.

https://data.bls.gov/dataQuery/find?st=0&r=20&fq=cg:[Geography]&fq=cc:[Census+Divisions]&more=0&fq=ccd:[West+South+Central]&q=defined+benefit

 

 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2721]

22 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I am the sales guy.

The company is really nothing more than some equipment, some receivables, and  cash and a few relationships.

If I were starting a company like mine, I wouldn't buy it...just grow it by hiring and making conections.

Give him a structured buyout over X period of time based on the GP.  What's his equity stake?  

[BottleRocket 644]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:02 PM, Snake Diggity said:

In terms of career, I’d say if your heart isn’t in continuing on your business, I bet you’ll be able to find a job in construction management of some kind, but you’ll have to have pretty low expectations; it always takes longer to find something and it’s never as good a job as you hoped for when you started looking.

 

I agree with this.  If @Jiggy-Z is willing to work for someone else, I can guarantee that a large GC that self-performs their concrete work would hire you in an instant and pay you well.  That would be for estimating and/or PM work.  I'm thinking of companies like Hensel-Phelps, DPR, Spaw-Glass, Austin Commercial.  I know you've worked in this arena before and you may have some contacts already.  This is in addition to big forming companies like United Forming, CapForm, and your bigger concrete companies like Ceco.  Experienced people with your background are hard to find.  You would be a great hire.

Best of luck and well wishes for you and your wife.  I hope it all works out.  

 

edit to add:  You may think that working for another company might be a step backwards for your career.  But you may like sliding into retirement working for someone else and not having to pay the bills, run HR, logistics, contracting, and all of the other 'stuff' you do when running your own business.   You might find it to be so easy that you actually enjoy yourself.

Edited September 24 by BottleRocket

[Parliament 14086]

And working for someone else lets you focus on selling and not having to spend time on all the bullshit involved in running a business.  Go work for someone else and all that drama goes away.  OP might be a concrete-selling Surly 1% ballah and not even know it.  

[TwiceHorn 31089]

On 9/22/2024 at 4:55 PM, 52-80 said:

Older BLS Employee Benefits Survey

1980: 87% of employees participated in pension plans.  Essentially, all were DB as DC as a concept didnt exist (?).  52% based on terminal earning, 32% based on dollar amount formula, 14% based on career earning formula

1985: 80% were covered by DB pension

1989: 63% participation in DB pensions; 48% in DC pensions. (things like profit sharing count, and so sum can exceed 100%)

1995: 50% of full-time employees had access to DB pension plans

Newer BLS National Compensation Survey

All private industry workers participating in defined benefits pensions, 1999-2006: ~20%.  Series EBUDBINC000000AP

All private industry workers with access to defined benefits pensions, 2010-2024: 19-15%.  Series NBU21900000000000028290

 

If you're 65 now, you started a full time job in circa 1980.  You would have had 15+ years of participation in a DB plan.  And if my employer is like many other employers, you would have continued staying grandfathered into that plan. Same goes if you're ~50 y/o and joined in 1995. 

The winding down of the DB plan (from 1995-->today) transitioning to DC only pertained to employees who joined after that point.

Umm, DB plans started going away in earnest in the early 80s.  Yeah, they lingered around some, in some industries more than others (especially seemingly unionized industries) but someone employed in 1980 would likely only have a few short years in a pension, and by 1995, fuhgeddaboutit.

I suspect the numbers above represent people who kept a small vested pension when 401k largely replaced them.

I'm coming around to the idea that 401k was bad idea jeans.  Too many people can't save or invest and it's more rational to place that burden on a large employer.

Edited September 24 by TwiceHorn

[52-80 19047]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect the numbers above represent people who kept a small vested pension when 401k largely replaced them.

I didnt invent the verbiage - “covered” “participate” “participated” etc. Those were lifted from the benefits survey publications for those years. 

When they switched to the modern compensation survey, the questions were more specific allowing for detailed answers like ‘percentage of workers with *frozen* DBs transitioned to alternate form of pension’. 

the long term trends in the answer tells me with high confidence that in 1995, the percentage of employees with actively offered DB was 50%, not ‘fuhgetaboutit’  

 

[52-80 19047]

35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm coming around to the idea that 401k was bad idea jeans.  Too many people can't save or invest and it's more rational to place that burden on a large employer.

Seems inappropriate to ask private employers to function as an individuals babysitter for a literally lifelong duration. 

I agree that some people fail to save. If that manifests as a societal problem, the responsibility for a minimal blanket belongs to government. (They launched SSN almost a century ago). 

FYI, in the nations most idealized as western socialist utopias, employee sponsored pensions are also DC; and the officially endorsed retirement architecture is “three pillar” (just like Americas ‘three-legged stool’): state, employer, and private savings. 

[Gatorubet 30023]

7 hours ago, BottleRocket said:

 

I agree with this.  If @Jiggy-Z is willing to work for someone else, I can guarantee that a large GC that self-performs their concrete work would hire you in an instant and pay you well.  That would be for estimating and/or PM work.  I'm thinking of companies like Hensel-Phelps, DPR, Spaw-Glass, Austin Commercial.  I know you've worked in this arena before and you may have some contacts already.  This is in addition to big forming companies like United Forming, CapForm, and your bigger concrete companies like Ceco.  Experienced people with your background are hard to find.  You would be a great hire.

Best of luck and well wishes for you and your wife.  I hope it all works out.  

 

edit to add:  You may think that working for another company might be a step backwards for your career.  But you may like sliding into retirement working for someone else and not having to pay the bills, run HR, logistics, contracting, and all of the other 'stuff' you do when running your own business.   You might find it to be so easy that you actually enjoy yourself.

my father thought his career was at an end as an engineer when he was laid off by his employer for a kerfuffle with the NRC at a nuclear plant ( he refused to stop a giant concrete pour because the QC guy saw some gum wrappers in the rebar). 

Dad brought the family together and said we’re gonna have to tighten our belt but things will be fine and maybe I can find a job with a local utility.  Long story short, he sent his résumé to a couple headhunters, and it took two weeks for him to be hired and double his salary, and in charge of a major construction project in Mexico- where he lived long enough out of the country to avoid paying taxes after a while.   As he put it, “ Getting laid off at 55 was the best damn thing that ever happened to me!”

Some people make that leap on faith, and others are just pushed out the door.  No matter which way, it doesn’t mean you can’t have a nice soft landing.

My wife divorced me when I was 55, and it is definitely not the end of the world.  The economic hit was more than made up by my going home every day to a place where everyone was not miserable.  I’m pretty sure I’m gonna live a few years longer because of that. 

Edited September 24 by Gatorubet