DISCLAIMER* - Apple TV+ Series, Oct 11, Cate Blanchett, Kevin Kline, Written/Directed by Alfonso Cuarón

[wild_turkey 3159]

After the finale, I think I like the idea of this series better than the execution. It had a great cast and was beautifully shot. It was an interesting story to tell but the need to conceal Catherine’s version until the very end created some unbelievable situations along the way.

I would expect her to be more defensive and defiant with her husband, son, and job, rather than letting it play out and drive everyone to rock bottom. Maybe that’s a me problem for not being able to put myself in her shoes as a victim who has kept a trauma buried inside herself for 20 years. Perhaps she was so used to hiding it that it was hard to flip a switch and speak her truth.

There’s obviously a statement being made about women suffering rape or abuse and no one believing them, even when the lie is perpetrated by a deranged old man. Her own family and coworkers immediately turned on her. We as viewers were mostly turned against her, although we held out hope for the unreliable narrator twist, which is exactly what happened. The photos were pretty damning until we heard the truth, and that was a necessary part of the story because it made the lie more believable.

My frustration is that I feel like this would almost always play out differently in real life. I like to believe most spouses or coworkers, when presented with a shocking story from a stranger, would pause long enough to say “Tell me what really happened. This stranger wrote a book about you and has nude pictures of you, but I want to hear your explanation.” Or that at the very least, when Robert was kicking her out of the house, there would be a moment when she says “Fuck you, I was raped you asshole, and I need some time to process this before I can explain.” I think those moments did not happen merely for the sake of preserving the twist.

Putting emotion aside, the logical side of everyone’s brain should wonder how Nancy and Stephen could possibly write an accurate version of those events, given that the only 2 people who actually knew, clearly did not tell them. Logic should quickly lead one to question the reliability of the book. As viewers we did that, but I was admittedly confused by the shifting narration between the past and present, and between different characters. As a character in the story, the source material is much more clear, originating from one man and his dead wife, which should have massive alarm bells going off in Robert’s head.

It gets a B+ from me. It would probably be better with a rewatch, but a rewatch would also mean that certain hotel scenes go from being spicy to nauseating, so I doubt I’ll do that. I think it holds up much better than similar series like Presumed Innocent or Defending Jacob.

[Texzilla58 4731]

Agree. We watched the final three last night and I think the acting and cinematography were excellent, the casting marginal on the some characters, especially Nicky.  It will likely win some awards.

its hard to remember what’s fact in the past unless you keep remembering it’s the version as portrayed in the book.  My wife thought her rape story was a lie as she failed to pick up the call from Sasha’s mom of why she returned, and she missed the quick shot of Catherine being photographed after the rape and beating.  Had to rewind.  They should have showed Stephen burning the rape photos that he took out of the deck he posted and showed.  
 

they knew their son was a predator and then she wrote that book to whitewash him into a saint.  

[nycHorn 2977]

Yeah. I thought the twist was good but like the previous couple of posts, the idea was better than the execution.
Although, if the rape is the true story, you wouldn’t think that Catherine would identify so quickly and viscerally that the book was her story. That tricks the watcher into thinking it is a true story. She wouldn’t even know his name.

And after a long night of knife wielding and raping, man I’m tired I’m going to go hang here on the beach within ear shot of the woman I raped, and….oh my god her child needs help. Lemme sprint into an angry sea…

[Red Five 40822]

2 hours ago, nycHorn said:

And after a long night of knife wielding and raping, man I’m tired I’m going to go hang here on the beach within ear shot of the woman I raped, and….oh my god her child needs help. Lemme sprint into an angry sea…

I was waiting for that part to get retconned as well, but nope. 

[TwiceHorn 31434]

I think one thing is that Catherine apparently was a pretty self-made woman, creating jealousy all around her, including Robert.  That was very lightly touched up on with Robert, far less so with her colleagues.

Perhaps that explains why they were so quick to believe something scandalous about her.

Spoiler

Also, I have no idea what effect witnessing your mother being raped would have on a child, but the Nicholas dynamic wasn't very satisfying.  I suppose a child wouldn't know the difference between rape and consensual sex, and the child might assume any of it was some form of violence, perhaps only later to assume it was Mom whoring out.

 

[TwiceHorn 31434]

Also, the longer I think about

Spoiler

You are managing the fact that I was raped better than the possibility that I was being given pleasure

Was kind of bullshit.  Not kind of, total bullshit.

The problem, both as viewers of a TV show, and from a relationship perspective, is that you/they/everyone was so willing to accept that she'd been unfaithful.

[bschoolprof 6251]

meh.  

[CurlyDumps 4466]

On 11/8/2024 at 7:41 AM, wild_turkey said:

After the finale, I think I like the idea of this series better than the execution. It had a great cast and was beautifully shot. It was an interesting story to tell but the need to conceal Catherine’s version until the very end created some unbelievable situations along the way.

Or that at the very least, when Robert was kicking her out of the house, there would be a moment when she says “Fuck you, I was raped you asshole, and I need some time to process this before I can explain.” I think those moments did not happen merely for the sake of preserving the twist.

Yeah, this. One of the most frustrating plot/conflict devices is "just fucking tell them!" - i.e. a character withholding information without a good reason for doing so. Cuaron tried to navigate this by having Ali G like immediately stonewall her and refuse her calls etc, but she could have blurted out something before he left.

[CurlyDumps 4466]

Also, couldnt help laughing when Jonathan did this:

[Texzilla58 4731]

17 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Yeah, this. One of the most frustrating plot/conflict devices is "just fucking tell them!" - i.e. a character withholding information without a good reason for doing so. Cuaron tried to navigate this by having Ali G like immediately stonewall her and refuse her calls etc, but she could have blurted out something before he left.

Ali G banished her without listening to her, poisoned his son against her, partnered with Kevin Kline and sided with him, and then just said “ I’m. Sorry!”.  Glad she told him to fuck off.

[austingirl 2191]

I agree that the idea was better than the execution. I honestly thought the scene at her workplace was going to end up being some fantasy Nancy or Stephen made up, because the entire thing was so ridiculous. An office full of supposed journalists doesn't think to fact-check ANYTHING before accusing their well-respected colleague of all that bullshit? I actually rolled my eyes when Jinsoo yelled "you're so canceled!" at the end of that scene. 

And what's with the hospital staff continuing to let Stephen visit Nicholas after Catherine told them he lied about being her father? And generally being so loosey-goosey with letting visitors in the ICU?

Anyone else get a super creepy vibe from Nancy and Jonathan's relationship? Like, in a "she molested her son" way? She wrote some very explicit sex scenes featuring her own son. And most of them featured an older woman teaching a younger man how to fuck. Then there were all those photos Jonathan took of her when she wasn't looking, that she was so excited about. 

I give it a C. Recommended with reservations.

[irishtexan 11511]

10 hours ago, austingirl said:

Anyone else get a super creepy vibe from Nancy and Jonathan's relationship? Like, in a "she molested her son" way? She wrote some very explicit sex scenes featuring her own son. And most of them featured an older woman teaching a younger man how to fuck. Then there were all those photos Jonathan took of her when she wasn't looking, that she was so excited about. 

 

And then the whore coerced my son into putting a finger up her butthole.....

[austingirl 2191]

33 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

And then the whore coerced my son into putting a finger up her butthole.....

Right? "She taught my son how to eat out a woman and then introduced him to some light assplay." 

[sidis 9821]

2 hours ago, irishtexan said:

And then the whore coerced my son into putting a finger up her butthole.....

obviously you weren't paying attention.

[Texzilla58 4731]

14 hours ago, austingirl said:

I agree that the idea was better than the execution. I honestly thought the scene at her workplace was going to end up being some fantasy Nancy or Stephen made up, because the entire thing was so ridiculous. An office full of supposed journalists doesn't think to fact-check ANYTHING before accusing their well-respected colleague of all that bullshit? I actually rolled my eyes when Jinsoo yelled "you're so canceled!" at the end of that scene. 

And what's with the hospital staff continuing to let Stephen visit Nicholas after Catherine told them he lied about being her father? And generally being so loosey-goosey with letting visitors in the ICU?

Anyone else get a super creepy vibe from Nancy and Jonathan's relationship? Like, in a "she molested her son" way? She wrote some very explicit sex scenes featuring her own son. And most of them featured an older woman teaching a younger man how to fuck. Then there were all those photos Jonathan took of her when she wasn't looking, that she was so excited about. 

I give it a C. Recommended with reservations.

All of this.  And how much of this was Stephen’s weird vengeance over being cucked by his wife for his son. 
 

this could have been so much better.  I think the stupidity of her office, her husband, the hospital staff, etc was they were going for a Hitchcockian falsely accused vibe but couldn’t pull it off.

Edited Tuesday at 06:22 PM by Texzilla58