2024 port workers strike

royiv · October 1

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Because they were shit on in the past. On the one hand, they have a point about the record profits stuff.

But on the other hand, they are timing this for the elections, and the leader bragging on social media that he could cripple the United States (and will) is not going over very well with people who are not union workers. I know he thinks one of the Presidential candidates is his friend for inviting him to his place in Florida, but when million-dollar and billion-dollar companies and their customers get pissed, they are going to want somebody to come down hard on that guy and the other union workers. Do they really think that the Texas Governor, who has been bragging non-stop about the Texas economy in recent weeks, is going to be happy to have cargo ships clogging up the Houston Ship Channel? Because a lot of companies are going to be leaning on every politician to shut this down.

That guy really fucked up with his "we will cripple the US" nonsense. That was the epitome of arrogance.

All of this.

I’m staunchly pro-union. My wife works in management for a large privately owned manufacturing company that is highly unionized. On the whole, labor relations are good because each side respects each other and understands that there is give and take on both sides. It helps that the company is very closely held (one family owns the entire company) so they’re not beholden to external shareholders. It also doesn’t hurt that the company extends a fair chunk of the union benefits, i.e. healthcare, pension, vacation, to management which makes management happy.

This is all a long way of saying that there’s a way for unions and management to work together and not have an adversarial relationship, but that requires good faith on both sides. In this case, it appears that neither was negotiating in good faith although I will give credit to USMX for making a significant move off their position last night. On the other side, you have a union president acting like a mob boss and giving a masterclass in how to get public opinion against you. His constituents have a very strong case for increases in wages and retirement, but he’s lost the message when he threatens Americans who are already skittish about the price of everything. If I was represented by the ILA, I would be pissed.

Incredulity · October 1

12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

That guy really fucked up with his "we will cripple the US" nonsense. That was the epitome of arrogance.

His rhetoric and tone are not all much different than Fain and UAW. They got their demands so why wouldn't he put his dick on the table?

Laxtonto · October 1

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I'm not CR-ing here, but imo, the Biden Administration usually gets to the right place eventually, but there is some boobery along the way. Cock up before Conspiracy is sort of a calling card. My guess is its a bit rudderless over there anyway, since they are lame duck, and nobody has really buckled down on this in a way to form an actionable plan.

It is all fun and political games until we trigger a full-on recession in the US and it cascades to the global markets.

This is something that should have been a major priority at the cabinet level 12-18 months ago. The fact that nothing was done then and is being further exacerbated by inaction now is unacceptable. Being a rudderless lame duck now doesn't fix the fact that this is something that could have had some form of plan and intervention scenario in places months ago. My biggest complaint is that this is something as academics we have been discussing rather vehemently for the last 6 months or so. So it is not like this is a situation that has snuck up on anyone. It was a well-known point of concern for a long time. The problem was most didn't ever expect the complete abdication of action by the US government as a lead-up to the now-current work stoppage.

Incredulity · October 1

6 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

The problem was most didn't ever expect the complete abdication of action by the US government as a lead-up to the now-current work stoppage.

Joe walked the picket line in Detroit and said yesterday he, "doesn't believe in Taft-Hartley". They are who they told you they are.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?538805-1/president-biden-speaks-reporters-dover-air-force-base 1:34

atomheartbevo · October 1

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

His rhetoric and tone are not all much different than Fain and UAW. They got their demands so why wouldn't he put his dick on the table?

Fain and the UAW weren't going to cripple the country, nor were they bragging about not only having the ability to cripple the entire country, but would use it.

This guy was openly acting like a mob boss and bragging about it on social media.

Parliament · October 1

21 minutes ago, royiv said:

All of this.

I’m staunchly pro-union. My wife works in management for a large privately owned manufacturing company that is highly unionized. On the whole, labor relations are good because each side respects each other and understands that there is give and take on both sides. It helps that the company is very closely held (one family owns the entire company) so they’re not beholden to external shareholders. It also doesn’t hurt that the company extends a fair chunk of the union benefits, i.e. healthcare, pension, vacation, to management which makes management happy.

This is all a long way of saying that there’s a way for unions and management to work together and not have an adversarial relationship, but that requires good faith on both sides. In this case, it appears that neither was negotiating in good faith although I will give credit to USMX for making a significant move off their position last night. On the other side, you have a union president acting like a mob boss and giving a masterclass in how to get public opinion against you. His constituents have a very strong case for increases in wages and retirement, but he’s lost the message when he threatens Americans who are already skittish about the price of everything. If I was represented by the ILA, I would be pissed.

Just wait until the Facebook Karen’s get ahold of this and decide the unions are gonna ruin Christmas shopping.

royiv · October 1

22 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

His rhetoric and tone are not all much different than Fain and UAW. They got their demands so why wouldn't he put his dick on the table?

UAW made their demands and stuck to the talking points. Fain demonstrated how to keep on message and get public opinion on the side of the union. That’s why you saw Biden on the picket line with labor. It polled well and led to very strong support from labor.

Edited October 1 by royiv

tx 3 putt · October 1

1 minute ago, Parliament said:

Just wait until the Facebook Karen’s get ahold of this and decide the unions are gonna ruin Christmas shopping.

jokes on them, costco has had christmas stuff out for weeks !

royiv · October 1

6 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

jokes on them, costco has had christmas stuff out for weeks !

Went to Costco yesterday to pick up some staples and the place was chock full of Christmas stuff and all the clothing was sweatshirts and the like. Meanwhile it was 90+ outside.

Incredulity · October 1

22 minutes ago, royiv said:

UAW made their demands and stuck to the talking points. Fain demonstrated how to keep on message and get public opinion on the side of the union. That’s why you saw Biden on the picket line with labor. It polled well and led to very strong support from labor.

Go read this thread. Fain played hardball and was belligerent in the press. BTW the UAW is currently voting to strike at Stellantis.

Now, Mr. Goldchain has certainly taken it to 11 and 2/3rds of ports not operating is a bigger pain point than auto industry. There is also the rail strike as recent president for labor getting their way.

immamac · October 1

I think these union reps are fucking idiots. Imagine if the NFLPA was run like this.

Js1 · October 1

18 minutes ago, royiv said:

Went to Costco yesterday to pick up some staples and the place was chock full of Christmas stuff and all the clothing was sweatshirts and the like. Meanwhile it was 90+ outside.

It’s Christmas in Venezuela today!

Snake Diggity · October 1

4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Go read this thread. Fain played hardball and was belligerent in the press. BTW the UAW is currently voting to strike at Stellantis.

Now, Mr. Goldchain has certainly taken it to 11 and 2/3rds of ports not operating is a bigger pain point than auto industry. There is also the rail strike as recent president for labor getting their way.

Precedent. Not trying to be a dick, just wanna make sure you aren’t going through your whole life making that mistake.

Incredulity · October 1

Just now, Snake Diggity said:

Precedent. Not trying to be a dick, just wanna make sure you aren’t going through your whole life making that mistake.

I certainly intended to type precedent . A completely unpresidented mistake on my part.

royiv · October 1

16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Go read this thread. Fain played hardball and was belligerent in the press. BTW the UAW is currently voting to strike at Stellantis.

Now, Mr. Goldchain has certainly taken it to 11 and 2/3rds of ports not operating is a bigger pain point than auto industry. There is also the rail strike as recent president for labor getting their way.

Don’t need to read it. You’ll see that I was an active participant in that thread. I give you credit for acknowledging the differences between the UAW and ILA labor disputes.

Your Mom · October 1

4 hours ago, Macanudo said:

10 hours of overtime per week? The horror, the horror. Try being salaried in a industry where overtime isn't just expected but often mandatory. The expectation to "get the work done" without the reward of being paid for the extra time. At my previous company, I worked in a role where I worked 60-70 hour weeks for close to half the year and 50 hours the rest, all without overtime.

I do support unions and their collective bargaining but I don't like it when they hold people hostage for insane starting points like the ILA has come out with.

Your jobs sound like they all sucked. Just because you put up with it stuck with that kind of bullshit doesn’t make it right. It shouldn’t take overtime to raise a family comfortably.

And nobody is asking for a 75% wage increase NOW. The increase is spread over the life of the contract to be at 75% years from now. It’s a significant wage increase for sure, but not the hyperbole that some of you are spewing.

The economy might hit a bump over this if it lasts a while but it’s not crashing. Anyone in purchasing has seen this coming for a long time and has been stockpiling their most important supplies. This has happened before and life went on.

Jshep34 · October 1

I can't side with workers on this one. They get paid 100's if not 1000's of hours of over time pay while not even being at work. Know for a fact I've seen thier pay stubs. It's not possible to work the amount of hours they get paid.

jeevsie · October 1

8 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Anyone in purchasing has seen this coming for a long time and has been stockpiling their most important supplies. This has happened before and life went on.

Haha! You don't have some of my customers.

Macanudo · October 1

The job did suck but unpaid OT is the reality for a lot of professions. Hell, look at teachers.... Woefully underpaid and they put in a ton of time outside of the actual "school day."

royiv · October 1

2 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

I can't side with workers on this one. They get paid 100's if not 1000's of hours of over time pay while not even being at work. Know for a fact I've seen thier pay stubs. It's not possible to work the amount of hours they get paid.

And the shippers are making billions. Labor has a role in those profits, no?

1 minute ago, Macanudo said:

The job did suck but unpaid OT is the reality for a lot of professions. Hell, look at teachers.... Woefully underpaid and they put in a ton of time outside of the actual "school day."

You’re making an argument for strong unions without realizing you’re making an argument for strong unions.

atomheartbevo · October 1

30 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Go read this thread. Fain played hardball and was belligerent in the press. BTW the UAW is currently voting to strike at Stellantis.

Now, Mr. Goldchain has certainly taken it to 11 and 2/3rds of ports not operating is a bigger pain point than auto industry. There is also the rail strike as recent president for labor getting their way.

Not only is it a far bigger pain point than the auto industry, but the arrogance with which he delivered that threat surpasses anything Fain did.

Your Mom · October 1

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

The job did suck but unpaid OT is the reality for a lot of professions. Hell, look at teachers.... Woefully underpaid and they put in a ton of time outside of the actual "school day."

Oh I understand it’s a reality. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be fighting to change it. Teachers should absolutely be paid a lot more. Sounds like you should’ve been paid a lot more as well. Just because it happens traditionally in some fields doesn’t make it right.

F250 · October 1

6 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

The job did suck but unpaid OT is the reality for a lot of professions. Hell, look at teachers.... Woefully underpaid and they put in a ton of time outside of the actual "school day."

Work should be equally terrible for everyone.

royiv · October 1

Jealousy is a fascinating driver of sentiment surrounding how other people earn a living.

Incredulity · October 1

7 minutes ago, jeevsie said:

Haha! You don't have some of my customers.

IMPO the media is overestimating the willingness/ability of businesses to stockpile inventory given the realities coming out of the pandemic.

They are also underestimating the amount of time it will take this to show up significantly in the consumers purchasing reality.

babysdaddy · October 1

Incredulity · October 1

lol, man of the people right there.

Captainant · October 1

2 hours ago, jeevsie said:

I've only ever worked in non-union industries. Why do only some labor forces need unions?

For a pretty recent example, a bunch of plastics plant workers died in the flash flooding because they were called in that morning even with the storm barreling down. If you're an hourly worker barely making ends meet, would you risk NOT going to work and potentially upending your whole life when you've got no backup to protect you from management?

ryskey · October 1

The total ban on automation is insane. He's complaining that his workers had to work through COVID. Yes, many others did too. Do you know what allows workers to work remotely? Automation.

The issue with wages not keeping up with dividends/earnings/management compensation is impossible to quantify since most port companies in the US are either

1. Private so impossible to tell what their financials look like.

2. Large multinational companies in which a small percentage of the total revenue comes from US ports. So it's impossible to determine profitability of US ports there unless there's some disaggregation in the financial statements. A read of port performance (several rankings and metrics here https://portalcip.org/documents/port-indicators-and-statistics/ ) indicates the US is middling at best compared to other OECD countries, and American ports lagging way behind other countries after grouping by size and throughput.

An attempt to solve all of this could involve RSUs, stock grants or stock options for ILA workers. Let them own part of the company that pays them. Align interests, let workers participate in record dividends and stock performance if they exist. But we are probably past the point where that would solve anything. The combative nature here indicates poor management decisions probably have at least some of the blame here.

But back to the ban on automation. Port inefficiencies contribute to inflation and decreased exports, both of which we can all hopefully agree are bad. This is a race to the bottom where a large group of people have a financial incentive to be inefficient and negatively impact the rest of the country.

The other countries do a lot more exports, while the US is more weighted to imports, so I don't know how that may effect the numbers above.

Incredulity · October 1

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

For a pretty recent example, a bunch of plastics plant workers died in the flash flooding because they were called in that morning even with the storm barreling down. If you're an hourly worker barely making ends meet, would you risk NOT going to work and potentially upending your whole life when you've got no backup to protect you from management?

from your link

The company continued to monitor weather conditions. When water began to cover the parking lot and the adjacent service road, and the plant lost power, employees were dismissed by management to return to their homes in time for them to escape the industrial park. At no time were employees told that they would be fired if they left the facility. For employees who were non-English speaking, bilingual employees were among the group of managers who delivered the message.

What exactly does a union get done differently in this case? A no-work when it rains clause in a contract?

Schulz2.0 · October 1

5 hours ago, Macanudo said:

10 hours of overtime per week? The horror, the horror. Try being salaried in a industry where overtime isn't just expected but often mandatory. The expectation to "get the work done" without the reward of being paid for the extra time. At my previous company, I worked in a role where I worked 60-70 hour weeks for close to half the year and 50 hours the rest, all without overtime.

I do support unions and their collective bargaining but I don't like it when they hold people hostage for insane starting points like the ILA has come out with.

I work a rotating (nights/days) 36/48 schedule. The 400-500 hours is about the average overtime I've worked a year not counting my regular scheduled hours. I wouldn't work all the OT if I wasn't getting paid for it. I don't live to work.

Edited October 1 by Schulz2.0

Captainant · October 1

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

What exactly does a union get done differently in this case? A no-work when it rains clause in a contract?

For starters, it gives the individual employees more confidence to ignore a dangerous order to come in to work with a hurricane baring down. It's not like there's magically a rule for every contingency, it's giving workers more agency to decide rather than be ordered into a dangerous situation by their bosses

52-80 · October 1

52 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

lol, man of the people right there.

High Plains Drifter · October 1

What leverage does the Fed have as far as preventing or stopping the strike?

Also, what exactly does the Taft Hartley Act say/do?

Also Also, this sounds like a "both sides" issue if there ever was one.

NotActuallyALonghorn · October 1

6 hours ago, Captainant said:

If that's what their employers are asking them to do.... Who gives a shit? If they don't want to pay overtime they can hire more people. I don't get the point you're making. The union published a letter a while back that outlined their grievances - including record profits and record dividend payouts in 2022/2023, and their previously negotiated wage increases being eclipsed by inflation. Heck they even make the same point as Schulz above you. They're fucking earning that overtime pay.

https://ilaunion.org/8082/

Nobody said they aren't earning or don't deserve that overtime pay, you smooth brained nut goggling idiot. If you had even the reading comprehension of a second grader, you would have seen that it was merely in the context of how much their total yearly compensation is.

6 hours ago, Captainant said:

If that's what their employers are asking them to do.... Who gives a shit? If they don't want to pay overtime they can hire more people. I don't get the point you're making. The union published a letter a while back that outlined their grievances - including record profits and record dividend payouts in 2022/2023, and their previously negotiated wage increases being eclipsed by inflation. Heck they even make the same point as Schulz above you. They're fucking earning that overtime pay.

https://ilaunion.org/8082/

Nobody said they aren't earning or don't deserve that overtime pay, you smooth brained nut goggling idiot. If you had even the reading comprehension of a second grader, you would have seen that it was merely in the context of how much their total yearly compensation is.

BabaYaga · October 1

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Nobody said they aren't earning or don't deserve that overtime pay, you smooth brained nut goggling idiot. If you had even the reading comprehension of a second grader, you would have seen that it was merely in the context of how much their total yearly compensation is.

Nobody said they aren't earning or don't deserve that overtime pay, you smooth brained nut goggling idiot. If you had even the reading comprehension of a second grader, you would have seen that it was merely in the context of how much their total yearly compensation is.

So nice he said it twice!

Incredulity · October 1

7 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Also, what exactly does the Taft Hartley Act say/do?

They can enforce a 90 day "cooling off period" where work has to resume. Mr Goldchains has said if Taft Hartley is invoked they will return but instruct members to slow down work.

52-80 · October 1

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

This guy was openly acting like a mob boss and bragging about it on social media.

Was it the gold chain or the transition glasses that gave it away?

Captainant · October 1

It's surprising how many of y'all are TOTALLY into the idea of the government forcing a party to take a contract that picks winners and losers. Y'all's idea of a free market is surprisingly unfree

Orange&White · October 1

Co-worker went to Costco at lunch and said they were out of toilet paper.

I went to HEB at lunch and decided to walk down that aisle just to see. They were sold out of everything except HEB/HCF brands.

MIL told me last night that the biggest concern we face is booze.

aggie08 · October 1

2 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

MIL told me last night that the biggest concern we face is booze.

BrazilHorn · October 1

3 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Co-worker went to Costco at lunch and said they were out of toilet paper.

I went to HEB at lunch and decided to walk down that aisle just to see. They were sold out of everything except HEB/HCF brands.

MIL told me last night that the biggest concern we face is booze.

Tequila and Bourbon will be fine. Just you high style wine drinkers that will suffer.

Incredulity · October 1

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's surprising how many of y'all are TOTALLY into the idea of the government forcing a party to take a contract that picks winners and losers. Y'all's idea of a free market is surprisingly unfree

who advocated for this?

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

Tequila and Bourbon will be fine. Just you high style wine drinkers that will suffer.

PLUS toilet paper doesn't come from overseas.

crash_davis · October 1

Strike a few weeks before an election. Hmmmm....

https://ilaunion.org/ila-president-harold-daggett-asks-ila-members-to-pray-for-former-president-donald-trump-and-victims-at-saturdays-pennsylvania-rally-recalls-productive-meeting-last-november-with-trump/

Orange&White · October 1

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

PLUS toilet paper doesn't come from overseas.

I'd like to watch you explain this to a Costco full of angry Karens.

Incredulity · October 1

2 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I'd like to watch you explain this to a Costco full of angry Karens.

Tonesky · October 1

As of about 30 minutes ago, the Teamsters have my full support!

Incredulity · October 1

3 minutes ago, Tonesky said:

the Teamsters

High Plains Drifter · October 1

42 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

PLUS toilet paper doesn't come from overseas.

Still gonna have shortages however. I better stop on the way home and fill up the bed of the truck just to be sure.

Incredulity · October 1

2 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Still gonna have shortages however. I better stop on the way home and fill up the bed of the truck just to be sure.

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2024 port workers strike

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