UNLV starting QB: fuck this shit, I'm outta here (check bounced)

[Iceman 2694]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

This is a bitch move straight up. NIL has nothing to do with playing and this completely unacceptable horseshit. 

He is playing college football not professional. 

There is no way anyone takes this loser in the portal after quitting on his team. He obviously doesn't give a shit about football. 

You believe that?  Then why aren't students in other programs on campus at UT drawing NIL money like the footbal and basketball teams?

It's fundamentally and absolutely about playing for pay.  Suggesting anything else is just mental gymnastics.

[Newy25 7668]

I would definitely need to know more facts about what is going on. The two sides are telling two very different stories. He was signed as a transfer and was very well sought out by a lot of G5 schools. I’m assuming he chose UNLV based on financial promises made to him. If they didn’t honor those, well what is his recourse if this is his final year of eligibility? Just play and oh well life isn’t fair? 

Or is the story true that UNLV is pushing? He asked for more money after a good start to the year and being tampered with? There is no middle ground on facts here. One side’s story is a lie. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3267]

Not a great look at all for both Sluka and whoever is doing the alleged poaching if this turns out to be accurate…

[Native Horn 3499]

21 minutes ago, Deej said:

 

Maybe if Jimbo opens his wallet.

['stache 21797]

1 minute ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Not a great look at all for both Sluka and whoever is doing the alleged poaching if this turns out to be accurate…

I think this is most likely and if so fuck him. Like someone said above, one side is lying. I assume most NIL is paid up front. Seems unlikely that he was promised a payment after week 3 which was reneged.

[immamac 42837]

7 minutes ago, Iceman said:

You believe that?  Then why aren't students in other programs on campus at UT drawing NIL money like the footbal and basketball teams?

It's fundamentally and absolutely about playing for pay.  Suggesting anything else is just mental gymnastics.

UT doesn't sign any players to NIL deals and neither does UNLV. They do sign players to contracts for stipend and scholarship etc. 

This isn't about playing for pay. It's about being a shithead. If some boosters didn't pay they should be axed from all UNLV stuff as well. 

You can do all the legal gymnastics you want, there is no explicit pay for play deals anywhere because they are against the rules. 

Its why gundy said thank god the season started no more bullshit negotiations etc. Its well known you don't do this kind of shit as much as its unspoken you are actually getting way more money than your brand is worth you also shut the fuck up when you ride the bench or play awesome. You don't get to demand more or take less. 

[BurntEyes 5958]

Yeah, if he was offered more money elsewhere and tried to leverage that and basically 2 perfomances against an obligation from NIL/UNLV, he's a shit head.

If UNLV/NIL didn't meet their obligations made contingent upon his transfer, they are shit heads.

I have a suspicion lean as to which happened but it will come out in the wash and we will know the real shit heal in this equation.

And yes... those who bet on UNLV this weekend are the real victims in this story. Won't anyone think of the gamblers?!?

[statsman 5453]

Why would he talk to the coach. Why wouldn’t his agent have a conversation with the GM, to settle it? Thats why there are agents and GMs, so as to not intrude on the competitive aspect. 

[Newy25 7668]

12 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Not a great look at all for both Sluka and whoever is doing the alleged poaching if this turns out to be accurate…

Thats all the same source being referenced. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

You can do all the legal gymnastics you want, there is no explicit pay for play deals anywhere because they are against the rules. 

You’re the one doing the legal gymnastics. No, it isn’t explicitly pay for play. But it clearly is pay for play. It’s a legal structure purposefully designed to obscure reality. 

If the health code prevented me from selling lemonade, but I sold cups for $5 and gave away the lemonade for free, I’m not explicitly selling lemonade. But we all know what the reality is. 

Edited September 25 by Doc Daneeka

[Evil Bill Obrien 3267]

Just now, Newy25 said:

Thats all the same source being referenced. 

Yeah think you are right...ooops

Still if that source turns out to be accurate shits totally fucked up

[horn009 139]

Promising people who aren't even old enough to legally buy a drink yet millions of dollars makes no sense to me. This situation further validates why I don't think it's a good idea. 

[immamac 42837]

Just now, Doc Daneeka said:

You’re the one doing the legal gymnastics. No, it isn’t explicitly pay for play. But it clearly is pay for play. It’s a legal structure purposefully designed to obscure reality. 

If the health code prevented me from selling lemonade, but I sold cups for $1 and gave away the lemonade for free, I’m not explicitly selling lemonade. But we all know what the reality is. 

Yeah the difference is when you run out of lemonade and people who bought $1 cups bitch about not getting any more lemonade. Those people bought cups and can get fucked as long as you gave them the cup and they gave you the dollar. 

If someone paid for lemonade and you ran out you must give them their lemonade or give them their money back. 

This isn't fucking hard you guys are idiots if you think the wink wink unspoken rule doesn't have barbs and risks associated with it. This guy has a real deal he signed and committed when he joined the football team at UNLV that he's backing out of due to circumstances that have nothing to do with the staff, school, team, or anything. 

[Hank Kingsley 20906]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

This isn't fucking hard you guys are idiots if you think the wink wink unspoken rule doesn't have barbs and risks associated with it. This guy has a real deal he signed and committed when he joined the football team at UNLV that he's backing out of due to circumstances that have nothing to do with the staff, school, team, or anything. 

How do you know this? 

 

[Iceman 2694]

13 minutes ago, immamac said:

UT doesn't sign any players to NIL deals and neither does UNLV. They do sign players to contracts for stipend and scholarship etc. 

This isn't about playing for pay. It's about being a shithead. If some boosters didn't pay they should be axed from all UNLV stuff as well. 

You can do all the legal gymnastics you want, there is no explicit pay for play deals anywhere because they are against the rules. 

Its why gundy said thank god the season started no more bullshit negotiations etc. Its well known you don't do this kind of shit as much as its unspoken you are actually getting way more money than your brand is worth you also shut the fuck up when you ride the bench or play awesome. You don't get to demand more or take less. 

The devices we developed to say it's not pay for play are outright lies.  LMAO.

When every student on campus receives the same stipend like the service academies do; get back with me.

Edited September 25 by Iceman

[Evil Bill Obrien 3267]

9 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Yeah, if he was offered more money elsewhere and tried to leverage that and basically 2 perfomances against an obligation from NIL/UNLV, he's a shit head.

If UNLV/NIL didn't meet their obligations made contingent upon his transfer, they are shit heads.

I have a suspicion lean as to which happened but it will come out in the wash and we will know the real shit heal in this equation.

And yes... those who bet on UNLV this weekend are the real victims in this story. Won't anyone think of the gamblers?!?

For real tho...lot of degenerates betting on UNLV going to get totally hosed

 

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

UT doesn't sign any players to NIL deals and neither does UNLV. They do sign players to contracts for stipend and scholarship etc. 

This isn't about playing for pay. It's about being a shithead. If some boosters didn't pay they should be axed from all UNLV stuff as well. 

You can do all the legal gymnastics you want, there is no explicit pay for play deals anywhere because they are against the rules. 

Its why gundy said thank god the season started no more bullshit negotiations etc. Its well known you don't do this kind of shit as much as its unspoken you are actually getting way more money than your brand is worth you also shut the fuck up when you ride the bench or play awesome. You don't get to demand more or take less. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

Yeah the difference is when you run out of lemonade and people who bought $1 cups bitch about not getting any more lemonade. Those people bought cups and can get fucked as long as you gave them the cup and they gave you the dollar. 

If someone paid for lemonade and you ran out you must give them their lemonade or give them their money back. 

This isn't fucking hard you guys are idiots if you think the wink wink unspoken rule doesn't have barbs and risks associated with it. This guy has a real deal he signed and committed when he joined the football team at UNLV that he's backing out of due to circumstances that have nothing to do with the staff, school, team, or anything. 

If I’m promised free lemonade for buying the cup and I buy the cup and don’t get the lemonade, that’s problematic. But I’m not explicitly selling lemonade.

I’m not saying this guy is right or wrong or a shithead or not. I’m saying it’s a specious argument to say it isn’t pay for play because it isn’t explicitly structured as such. It very clearly is money being delivered because someone is playing.

['stache 21797]

8 minutes ago, horn009 said:

Promising people who aren't even old enough to legally buy a drink yet millions of dollars makes no sense to me. This situation further validates why I don't think it's a good idea. 

Old enough to get their knees blown out and brains turned to mush for the entertainment of others while generating billions of dollars in profit. They deserve to be compensated for that value. Doing it through NIL pretexts is the problem.

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

Whoever broke the deal is the asshole here.

If UNLV isn't paying him what they said they would, I'm Team Sluka.

If Sluka's just bailing because he thinks he'll get more money for it, I'm Team UNLV.

[52-80 19147]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

UT doesn't sign any players to NIL deals and neither does UNLV. They do sign players to contracts for stipend and scholarship etc. 

This isn't about playing for pay. It's about being a shithead. If some boosters didn't pay they should be axed from all UNLV stuff as well. 

You can do all the legal gymnastics you want, there is no explicit pay for play deals anywhere because they are against the rules.

all this means is the rules are bullshit.  why do we feign this 'student-athlete' pretense against what we already know has been the reality since the beginning of time:

elite high school athletes in popular sports go to college to play sports.  they pick their college to play sports.  colleges recruit them to play sports.  they will derive their career earnings from sports.  hell, most of them wouldnt qualify for admittance to their colleges if not for sports.

for all intents and purposes, these are athletes engaging in an (extremely) commercial enterprise, so they might as well be considered professional, and paid commensurately.  thats why i support NIL.  the fact that they're not "paid to play" is on-paper de jure vs de facto distinction.

if bijan robinson decided he didn't want to risk injury playing in college, so he join the roster but never willingly step on the field, would any donors give him NIL?  lets not make pretend here the true nature of the payments.

if the UNLV dude didn't get the money that was promised to him, walking away seems appropriate.

 

[horn009 139]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Old enough to get their knees blown out and brains turned to mush for the entertainment of others while generating billions of dollars in profit. They deserve to be compensated for that value. Doing it through NIL pretexts is the problem.

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, horn009 said:

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

College football has been a game of whose ringers are better than someone else’s ringers for more than 100 years. It’s only grown more popular. 

[horn009 139]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Whoever broke the deal is the asshole here.

If UNLV isn't paying him what they said they would, I'm Team Sluka.

If Sluka's just bailing because he thinks he'll get more money for it, I'm Team UNLV.

It sounds like it's because he thinks he can get more money elsewhere. 

[Hellraiser97 181]

2 minutes ago, horn009 said:

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

It already has in many ways.  I'm enjoying our seasons to be sure, but I was shocked at the start of the season to find out our top FOUR receivers are all transfers that came in after last season.  

[BurntEyes 5958]

5 minutes ago, horn009 said:

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

Do you think that wasn't the case prior to NIL? 

Why did the blue bloods always consistently field better teams than the also rans? It's always been that way, the terms just changed. To think otherwise is to be blinded by nostalgia.

[horn009 139]

2 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

It already has in many ways.  I'm enjoying our seasons to be sure, but I was shocked at the start of the season to find out our top FOUR receivers are all transfers that came in after last season.  

Part of what made college football unique compared to the NFL was that before NIL, it seemed like the players had a genuine attachment to the programs that they played for. NIL has taken that away now and has basically brought free agency into college football. 

[Al_4_ISU 12452]

5 minutes ago, horn009 said:

It sounds like it's because he thinks he can get more money elsewhere. 

I'm starting to believe that's the case as well.

[Lidig8r 1870]

31 minutes ago, statsman said:

Why would he talk to the coach. Why wouldn’t his agent have a conversation with the GM, to settle it? Thats why there are agents and GMs, so as to not intrude on the competitive aspect. 

Wait ... the University of Texas has a General Manager now?

Does the Athletic Director know? Or, is there a secret GM at UT about which we do not know?

If there is no GM and communications should have gone through the Athletic Director, doesn't that automatically involve the competitive aspect?

Shouldn't the discussions have gone through the NIL bagmen and then, if they refuse to pay, he approaches the coach and/or athletic director to see if they can put pressure on the NIL bagmen so the team does not lose its starting quarterback?

This seems to have been seriously mishandled.

[Iceman 2694]

8 minutes ago, Lidig8r said:

Wait ... the University of Texas has a General Manager now?

Does the Athletic Director know? Or, is there a secret GM at UT about which we do not know?

If there is no GM and communications should have gone through the Athletic Director, doesn't that automatically involve the competitive aspect?

Shouldn't the discussions have gone through the NIL bagmen and then, if they refuse to pay, he approaches the coach and/or athletic director to see if they can put pressure on the NIL bagmen so the team does not lose its starting quarterback?

This seems to have been seriously mishandled.

Now take it to the Gundy approach, with which I agree, in that:  Once the season starts, I don't want to hear shit about your money.

[immamac 42837]

33 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

If I’m promised free lemonade for buying the cup and I buy the cup and don’t get the lemonade, that’s problematic. But I’m not explicitly selling lemonade.

I’m not saying this guy is right or wrong or a shithead or not. I’m saying it’s a specious argument to say it isn’t pay for play because it isn’t explicitly structured as such. It very clearly is money being delivered because someone is playing.

Its not, its lame and part of the unspoken agreement of not buying lemonade. This is why you are all a bunch of fucking idiots. You are making a grievance claim for lemonade you never had an entitlement for. 

Its not specious. It is not pay for play. 

8 minutes ago, Lidig8r said:

Wait ... the University of Texas has a General Manager now?

Does the Athletic Director know? Or, is there a secret GM at UT about which we do not know?

If there is no GM and communications should have gone through the Athletic Director, doesn't that automatically involve the competitive aspect?

Shouldn't the discussions have gone through the NIL bagmen and then, if they refuse to pay, he approaches the coach and/or athletic director to see if they can put pressure on the NIL bagmen so the team does not lose its starting quarterback?

This seems to have been seriously mishandled.

The GM position is real, at Texas and at a lot of schools. It was completely mishandled by everyone and UNLV and this guy both look like complete fucking clown show morons. 

[Da Fino 2776]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is why you are all a bunch of fucking idiots.

Stop being so toxic

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

Its not, its lame and part of the unspoken agreement of not buying lemonade. This is why you are all a bunch of fucking idiots. You are making a grievance claim for lemonade you never had an entitlement for. 

Its not specious. It is not pay for play. 

You absolutely are entitled to the lemonade. It was part of the inducement for buying the cup. It’s like saying you’re not entitled to a free item on a BOGO promotion. It’s literally part of the sales pitch. 

It absolutely is pay for play. It’s simply structured for deniability. They’re not getting the money because their dazzling personalities are going to bring in customers or attract people to a cause. They’re getting the money because they’re playing. 

[52-80 19147]

NIL.  It's a woozie it's a wayzee.

['stache 21797]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Its not, its lame and part of the unspoken agreement of not buying lemonade. This is why you are all a bunch of fucking idiots. You are making a grievance claim for lemonade you never had an entitlement for. 

Its not specious. It is not pay for play. 

The GM position is real, at Texas and at a lot of schools. It was completely mishandled by everyone and UNLV and this guy both look like complete fucking clown show morons. 

If he was paid everything he was promised and came in after two "big" wins and asked for another $100K what did UNLV do wrong? I'd say no too and tell him to fuck off. 

As to your first point, it's why he's just leaving and not suing, it's still pay for play however it's labeled.

[immamac 42837]

Stop telling me shit isn't how it is when I am the one signing fucking deals with players. You armchair jock sniffers who commentate can fuck off. Sign a fucking deal then you get to talk to me about how it actually works. 

There is a lot that goes into it and it isn't Hurrrrr durrrr pay for play lolololol. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Just now, immamac said:

Stop telling me shit isn't how it is when I am the one signing fucking deals with players. You armchair jock sniffers who commentate can fuck off. Sign a fucking deal then you get to talk to me about how it actually works. 

There is a lot that goes into it and it isn't Hurrrrr durrrr pay for play lolololol. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13090]

I love it when someone thinks they got a situation all figured out and want to shit talk someone without all the facts. 
 

Fact: If Worthy didn’t get what was promised to him, his ass would have quit on the team, too. 

[BurdineBandit 815]

23 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

It already has in many ways.  I'm enjoying our seasons to be sure, but I was shocked at the start of the season to find out our top FOUR receivers are all transfers that came in after last season.  

Likewise. I've been a Longhorn football fan for as long as I've watched football, and a Longhorn basketball fan for as long as I've watched basketball. Last year I watched as little basketball as I ever have because the majority of the starters (and overall minutes) were transfers. Rentals. I dont know exactly what that information did to me, but I care a lot less now.  I think what keeps me into football is that the rosters are too big and Texas talent is too fruitful for it to lose its connection to Texas, so we at least will always have a handful of guys that love representing their state and grew up wanting to be Longhorns. Shit, even Arch is as faithful a longhorn as any, wanting to be here even as a child. I know I'm being naive placing my own Texas/UT pride into these kids, but knowing that some of them share that with me is a huge selling point for me personally. 

['stache 21797]

30 minutes ago, horn009 said:

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

I agree it's losing charm, but I can't think of a logical or economic justification that the people who risk their health to create a product that generates billions of dollars in revenue should do so for free because of charm and history. It used to be an amateur sport when they were kids playing a game and covering their costs through ticket sales and concessions. TV revenues have changed everything. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

Stop telling me shit isn't how it is when I am the one signing fucking deals with players. You armchair jock sniffers who commentate can fuck off. Sign a fucking deal then you get to talk to me about how it actually works. 

There is a lot that goes into it and it isn't Hurrrrr durrrr pay for play lolololol. 

How many deals are you signing with people who aren’t “players?”

[immamac 42837]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

You absolutely are entitled to the lemonade. It was part of the inducement for buying the cup. It’s like saying you’re not entitled to a free item on a BOGO promotion. It’s literally part of the sales pitch. 

It absolutely is pay for play. It’s simply structured for deniability. They’re not getting the money because their dazzling personalities are going to bring in customers or attract people to a cause. They’re getting the money because they’re playing. 

No you aren't. BOGO is BOGO, that's the entire offer. Buying a cup with no entitlement to lemonade because it's illegal to sell lemonade and not getting lemonade because there is no more lemonade is not part of the agreement. You can't write into the contract an entitlement for lemonade for buying a cup because it's not buying lemonade and technically an entitlement for lemonade and a cup is still selling lemonade. There is no compliance department that would allow that deal and it's against every state law and NCAA rule to do it that way. 

Stop acting like you fucking know anything. I'm telling you it's not this way. You guys can do the mental gymnastics all you want but no one is getting paid to play. 

Do people get way out of whack market valuations for NIL because of how good they are or potentially could be on the football field? Fucking duh. Absolutely fucking duh. But you know what you can't do? If they suvk and are benched just not for the deal. 

[immamac 42837]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

How many deals are you signing with people who aren’t “players?”

As brand ambassadors for surly? We've done several non player things for people to rep or push surly. How many deals have you done for brand representation or name image and likeness?

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

No you aren't. BOGO is BOGO, that's the entire offer. Buying a cup with no entitlement to lemonade because it's illegal to sell lemonade and not getting lemonade because there is no more lemonade is not part of the agreement. You can't write into the contract an entitlement for lemonade for buying a cup because it's not buying lemonade and technically an entitlement for lemonade and a cup is still selling lemonade. There is no compliance department that would allow that deal and it's against every state law and NCAA rule to do it that way. 

Stop acting like you fucking know anything. I'm telling you it's not this way. You guys can do the mental gymnastics all you want but no one is getting paid to play. 

Do people get way out of whack market valuations for NIL because of how good they are or potentially could be on the football field? Fucking duh. Absolutely fucking duh. But you know what you can't do? If they suvk and are benched just not for the deal. 

You’re begging the question. Why is there no entitlement to lemonade when the deal was predicated on getting lemonade?

Look, you can spin it and narrow it and whatever, but they’re getting paid solely because they’re on the team. 

[immamac 42837]

Just now, Doc Daneeka said:

You’re begging the question. Why is there no entitlement to lemonade when the deal was predicated on getting lemonade?

Look, you can spin it and narrow it and whatever, but they’re getting paid solely because they’re on the team. 

No they are getting paid to do a brand deal. Them playing on the team makes the brand very happy. 

['stache 21797]

2 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

You’re begging the question. Why is there no entitlement to lemonade when the deal was predicated on getting lemonade?

Look, you can spin it and narrow it and whatever, but they’re getting paid solely because they’re on the team. 

You couldn't sue for the lemonade because it would be an illegal contract and all you were legally entitled to was the cup. Like I said, it's why this QB isn't suing UNLV but instead is just up and leaving. Imma is speaking in technicalities and is correct on that level. In practice though, if he was promised something and they renegged, he's in the right. I think most of us think he just had a few good wins and asked for more money midseason and fuck him. No telling if the truth can be established. 

Edited September 25 by 'stache

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

No they are getting paid to do a brand deal. Them playing on the team makes the brand very happy. 

Their playing on the team is the sine qua non of the deal and any other view is purposefully obtuse. 

Just now, 'stache said:

You couldn't sue for the lemonade because it would be an illegal contract and all you were legally entitled to was the cup. Like I said, it's why this QB isn't suing UNLV but instead is just up and leaving. Imma is speaking in technicalities and is correct on that level. In practice though, if he was promised something and they renegged, he's in the right. I think most of us think he just had a few good wins and asked for more money midseason and fuck him. No telling if the truth can be established. 

Illegal based on what law? An illegal contract, why, exactly?

[JBJ 3654]

Hot take: Sluka is tacitly admitting that he understood his deal to be pay-for-play and should be suspended by the NCAA.

[immamac 42837]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Their playing on the team is the sine qua non of the deal and any other view is purposefully obtuse. 

Illegal based on what law? An illegal contract, why, exactly?

Because it is explicitly illegal to induce players you fucking moron. Jesus Christ. 

['stache 21797]

2 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Their playing on the team is the sine qua non of the deal and any other view is purposefully obtuse. 

Illegal based on what law? An illegal contract, why, exactly?

The hypothetical was that selling lemonade is illegal so you sell the cup with the expectation that lemonade will accompany the cup. Imma is correct that the rules still preclude payments for playing so they are written as "brand ambassador" contracts and they get $100K to do a 20 second recording for a local car dealership commercial. We all know it's pay for play, but if the player decides to leave, the dealership can't sue him for their money back, because the contract was for the radio ad. That's the only real difference, the way these are papered up is a complete pretext. 

Edited September 25 by 'stache

[horn009 139]

11 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I agree it's losing charm, but I can't think of a logical or economic justification that the people who risk their health to create a product that generates billions of dollars in revenue should do so for free because of charm and history. It used to be an amateur sport when they were kids playing a game and covering their costs through ticket sales and concessions. TV revenues have changed everything. 

I think that legal issues will eventually derail NIL or at least cause significant regulations of it. Also, it's only a matter of time before the IRS gets involved with NIL earnings, especially since millions of dollars are involved in a lot of these NIL deals. 

Edited September 25 by horn009