UNLV starting QB: fuck this shit, I'm outta here (check bounced)

[Tex Long 4351]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Whoever broke the deal is the asshole here.

If UNLV isn't paying him what they said they would, I'm Team Sluka.

If Sluka's just bailing because he thinks he'll get more money for it, I'm Team UNLV.

I'm late to the party - as often happens - but, yeah, even barely into page 2 it should be plenty obvious to all of us that one of the parties is lying... or at least very much mistaken. I don't much give  fuck which one of them is lying, there is a problem showing up, and it's one we all knew is there - it's just sort of surprising it hadn't already shown up during the actual season. 

Sometimes you feel like you gotta pick a side, and sometimes you feel like you need to wait until you figure out who's lying.

But sometimes you just want to hope for an asteroid to hit.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3198]

6 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

You got $12 dollars for a mustache..

Apparently, Barry Odom don't have $12 for a mustache...

 

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

it's all fixed next season. Pay for play is legal with revshare through university and coaches directly authorizing payments and dollar amounts to specific players. 

 

8 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Lulz. I'm sure it will all work out, and costs wont spiral out of control, because obviously AD's will be every bit as disciplined in an arms race as pro sports GMs. It may work out at Texas, because of our revenue generation and CDC being an elite AD, but coming up with enough coin to pay these players will fuck over a lot of schools. And if they cant come up with the money, it will fall back on the collectives and we're back to the same place except with a greater tie in between schools and collectives. NIL as implemented today is a complete fucking joke, and I see nothing that indicates the coming years wont be any better. Tennessee jacking up fees 10% is just the start. At least the pros dont let you switch teams every year, and have some semblance of a salary cap. 

Yeah that "It's all fixed next season" reminds me of the bit at the end of "The Big Short" where "all the bankers reasonable for the financial crisis were held accountable and went to prison...just kidding only one poor shit head ever went behind bars"

Gonna be so much fun when pay for play via revenue sharing is a thing and there is a salary cap and everyone goes back to having bagmen meeting players at Mcdonalds to get around the salary cap...

[DaysOff 7854]

Did Odom suddenly realize the kid isn't a great passer?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10150]

Some collectives obviously don't have much money... they are openly talking about paying QB1 3K a month (likely until football season over since that's when his eligibility runs out) ...so like 12K total.

[Tex Long 4351]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

complete fucking clown show morons

New Surly motto?

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

2 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Apparently, Barry Odom don't have $12 for a mustache...

 

 

Yeah that "It's all fixed next season" reminds me of the bit at the end of "The Big Short" where "all the bankers reasonable for the financial crisis were held accountable and went to prison...just kidding only one poor shit head ever went behind bars"

Gonna be so much fun when pay for play via revenue sharing is a thing and there is a salary cap and everyone goes back to having bagmen meeting players at Mcdonalds to get around the salary cap...

Perhaps this has already been answered, but how do you put the NIL genie back in the bottle even if there are other avenues for payment?

The NFL salary cap, for example, doesn’t purport to limit a player’s advertising income, does it?

Edited September 25 by Doc Daneeka

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

1 minute ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Gonna be so much fun when pay for play via revenue sharing is a thing and there is a salary cap and everyone goes back to having bagmen meeting players at Mcdonalds to get around the salary cap...

Only it won't.  Rev-share will establish the floor.  NIL will be the ceiling, via the wink-wink "not pay for play" model we have today.

[bad_teammate 13137]

1 minute ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Gonna be so much fun when pay for play via revenue sharing is a thing and there is a salary cap and everyone goes back to having bagmen meeting players at Mcdonalds to get around the salary cap...

I don't see how revenue sharing and university-funded NIL could legally preclude/negate 3rd party NIL deals.

If Texas pays Manning $1M directly, what actually stops me from paying Manning $50k to show up to a few publicity events wearing my company's t-shirt?

[TreatyOak 16157]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Oh look! Dude didn't have a contract and didn't get paid to play and an assistant coach who isn't allowed to negotiate NIL deals is the guy who is being blamed. 

So this guy who did absolutely nothing right, negotiated nothing and is airing his grievances and quitting his team publicly because he's a dunce who was duped by some assistant coach who can't possibly represent the collective or the university in what he was offering. Got it got it. Seems like this guy made the right decision and it's all on the up and up. Nothing to see here. 

 We don't really know what he was or wasn't promised and if he was promised money that never showed up, he wouldn't be the first.  

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

If a coach went rogue and made a bs promise the school is fucked perceptionwise going forward. If true the kid has every right to bail and preserve his redshirt and make some money in his final season next year. Just a mess all around.

Well, yesterday we disagreed, but today we agree. And as the Aggy assistant coach recruiting tape leak a couple of years ago revealed, coaches ARE openly involved in the $ negotiations.  

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

6 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Perhaps this has already been answered, but how do you put the NIL genie back in the bottle even if there are other avenues for payment?

The House settlement would explicitly make NIL from boosters against the rules.  All NIL payments over $600 would have to be reported.  They could not be paid by boosters or collectives.  And the payer would have to prove a legitimate business purpose for each deal.  It would push the extra payments back underground into bag deals.

 

This is the reason the judge did not approve of the settlement.  She basically said this looks a lot like a salary cap.

Quote

The hiccup in the preliminary hearing in the House v. NCAA case surprised some, but not many, in the college sports industry, particularly those in the NIL space. Language in the deal allows the NCAA to police NIL collectives and limit boosters from paying athletes through endorsement deals. In what Judge Claudia Wilken argued would amount to a salary cap, the enforcement language in the deal would force boosters to prove payments to athletes are for a "valid business purpose" rather than "pay-for-play." Wilken was visibly frustrated as she questioned portions of the deal during the hearing with attorneys conducted Thursday via Zoom, particularly those that limit NIL payments.

"I think we've got problems with this," Wilken said. "I don't have an idea of how to fix this. I will throw it back on you all to come up with something better and consistent. Keep in mind that taking things away from people doesn't work well."

NCAA outside counsel Rakesh Kilaru informed the judge the current language tied to NIL in the proposed settlement is "central" to its existence. "Without it," he said, "I'm not sure there will be a settlement to submit." Jeffrey Kessler, co-lead attorney for the plaintiffs, told ESPN after the hearing he is "perfectly fine" making Wilken's suggested changes. "It's now up to the NCAA. Hopefully, they agree to them."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/whats-next-for-ncaa-nil-collectives-after-house-settlement-talks-hit-roadblock-from-federal-judge/

Edited September 25 by Texas Wahoo

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

1 minute ago, Texas Wahoo said:

The House settlement would explicitly make NIL from boosters against the rules.  All NIL payments over $600 would have to be reported.  They could not be paid by boosters or collectives.  And the payer would have to prove a legitimate business purpose for each deal.  It would push the extra payments back underground into bag deals.

 

This is the reason the judge did not approve of the settlement.  She basically said this looks a lot like a salary cap.

Yep and the reason why NIL as it exists today will co-exist along side "official" university rev-share and NIL.  Floor and ceiling.

[Hermanator 6956]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Whoever broke the deal is the asshole here.

If UNLV isn't paying him what they said they would, I'm Team Sluka.

If Sluka's just bailing because he thinks he'll get more money for it, I'm Team UNLV.

It's pretty simple isn't it. 

The question is who is lying? Who has receipts? Show them 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, Texas Wahoo said:

The House settlement would explicitly make NIL from boosters against the rules.  All NIL payments over $600 would have to be reported.  They could not be paid by boosters or collectives.  And the payer would have to prove a legitimate business purpose for each deal.  It would push the extra payments back underground into bag deals.

 

This is the reason the judge did not approve of the settlement.  She basically said this looks a lot like a salary cap.

Good luck with that. 

[horn4life 3757]

Well Shucks.... I bet this is the first time a guy from Holy Cross went to Las Vegas and got an unexpected result...

[immamac 42551]

8 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

@immamac is correct that this particular NIL fail is a clown fiesta.  Some of the fails here include:

• Coaches directly negotiating and making promises
• Direct inducement
• Never papering a deal in advance
• Lack of coordination between UNLV collective and team
• Communication fails between coaches, team, agent, and player
• Leaking to the media
• Player/agent potentially trying to renegotiate mid-season
• Player opting out of season to preserve his eligibility (which is his right) for "non-legit reasons" e.g. not getting paid what he thought he'd get paid via NIL - makes him look like a bitch

Also imma's assertion that NIL isn't pay-for-play is strictly, formally, contractually, and legally true as TOF and any NIL-rules compliant entity is papering deals today.  It's also total bullshit, because as others pointed out, it's only Texas players or those Texas wants to be players that are getting inked to NIL deals.  And if those players don't feel like their commitments by TOF or others aren't met, they aren't going to hire a lawyer to sue TOF; they're going to turn to their #1 leverage: sitting or threatening to transfer, just like X. Worthy did until he got paid off.  While the contract is between TOF and player, there is an unnamed 3rd party that everyone knows is actually in there: the team.  Imma sitting here shouting at everyone about how stupid we are that this isn't actually PfP makes me think of this:

Also if this isn't pay-for-play, why have I seen imma and ctj on threads talking about Sark's recruiting and how "yes he's a good recruiter, but really we need credit for setting up NIL/TOF/Burnt Ends because without that we wouldn't be getting/retaining the talent."  ...wait a sec, I thought these were just general/random brand ambassador deals?  Not anything that would induce someone to actually choose Texas?  If these are just general name image likeness deals that have nothing to do with choosing Texas, why should anyone consider it having anything to do with recruiting then?  Can't have it both ways.

it's not PfP and Xavier was never going to "sit out", and he never threatened to transfer. His team was going to maximize his NIL opportunities which were real NIL opportunities that did not include compensation for play or on field performance wherever that would have been, but wanted to stay at Texas if those opportunities were matched or bested. 

You and many others are conflating things together. Just because the team/university/coaching staff benefit from a player being really happy about the NIL deals they are getting, and those deals being way bigger than they arguably should be and have more equivalence to pay for play contract values does not mean that they are pay for play or that any enforcement mechanism, language, expectation, anything is set in contract or even out of the contract to mean "pay for play". This leaves a ton of room for hurt feelings and a bunch of butthurt or whatever, but what it doesn't provide for is any room to say yeah fuck this I'm not gonna play football at this school anymore, because football has nothing to do with the contract or terms of the deal. If you choose not to play football because you are butthurt about the NIL deal you did or didn't get that makes you a fucking shithead, it doesn't make the collective a scammer, it doesn't make the coaches badguys, it doesn't make the university take responsibility for anything. 

This is an extremely important distinction that you keep glazing over with your "handwaving" and magical "it's pfp, but not really in any way at all is it pfp". There is no "grey area" here, they aren't paid to play - full stop.

It's like arguing that PTA's are worthless and stupid and have nothing to do with a school being better/worse than other schools in the same ISD. The PTA is like an NIL deal. They can pay for better playground equipment, new paint for classrooms, all kinds of stuff that the district allows for them and it makes that school more desirable for their children to go to and for other children who want to transfer from other schools in the ISD to that one. 

The NIL program at Texas is like the best fucking PTA in existence that maxes out spending on all the stuff that is allowable by state and local laws to make the school awesome outside of state, isd and federal funding. 

Texas One Fund is a big reason why people like the entirety of their time at the University. It's not the reason they are at the University, but it could be a good reason to look at it because of everyone's raving about past experience and how it makes things just better overall.

 

 

 

[Blotto 23434]

3 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

 We don't really know what he was or wasn't promised and if he was promised money that never showed up, he wouldn't be the first.  

Well, yesterday we disagreed, but today we agree. And as the Aggy assistant coach recruiting tape leak a couple of years ago revealed, coaches ARE openly involved in the $ negotiations.  

Of course they are. Does anyone think when Ewers was considering schools to transfer to, his biggest worry was the quality of the strength and conditioning facilities or the quality of his QB coach? Fuck no, he was finding out what he would get paid at each school. To think Texas coaches were 100% removed from those discussions and not aware of how we stacked up vs the other schools is naive as shit, when you're talking about a must have recruit. But of course NIL can't be used as an inducement, and the conversations can only begin once the player has signed with a school.

[pops 6974]

Assistant coach during recruiting: "We think we will probably have 100k in our collective for qb1"

Sloka "fucking A!  I'm in!"

Agent (who isn't an agent in Nevada which is a big deal in that state) "hey collective, where is that 100k for my client?"

Collective "who the fuck are you and what are you talking about?  Oh, and get registered as an agent before we talk to you"

Coach "what the fuck"

Agent not agent  "what the fuck"

Collective 🤷‍♂️

Sloka "peace, bitches. Thanks for the highlight tape"

Fin

[Handcruser 2805]

I have a friend going to Texas to study economics. He’s a little Chinese kid, about pounds. Cute little thing, wicked smart. Do I have him contact TOF for his NIL deal? His classmate is also going to Texas - he’s a [ star and he is in discussions with TOF. He just got a new Corvette too. Anyway, Chong needs some of that sweet sweet non pay for play money to get him through school.

[Incredulity 11563]

Just now, pops said:

Assistant coach during recruiting: "We think we will probably have 100k in our collective for qb1"

Sloka "fucking A!  I'm in!"

Agent (who isn't an agent in Nevada which is a big deal in that state) "hey collective, where is that 100k for my client?"

Collective "who the fuck are you and what are you talking about?  Oh, and get registered as an agent before we talk to you"

Coach "what the fuck"

Agent not agent  "what the fuck"

Collective 🤷‍♂️

Sloka "peace, bitches. Thanks for the highlight tape"

Fin

[Masshole Horn 763]

2 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

I have a friend going to Texas to study economics. He’s a little Chinese kid, about [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]] foot [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]] and [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] pounds. Cute little thing, wicked smart. Do I have him contact TOF for his NIL deal? His classmate is also going to Texas - he’s a [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]] foot [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]] [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] pound DL that’s a [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]] star and he is in discussions with TOF. He just got a new Corvette too. Anyway, Chong needs some of that sweet sweet non pay for play money to get him through school.

no, u

[immamac 42551]

14 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Only it won't.  Rev-share will establish the floor.  NIL will be the ceiling, via the wink-wink "not pay for play" model we have today.

Yes, this is the way. I'm not saying that it isn't "wink-wink", I'm saying that "wink-wink" isn't something you can take to the bank and exposes risks that are well known to both parties in entering the "wink-wink" agreement.

7 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Yep and the reason why NIL as it exists today will co-exist along side "official" university rev-share and NIL.  Floor and ceiling.

This x100, it will likely be more aligned with real NIL though as the people that go beyond the pfp direct university deal will have a brand worth promoting and doing stuff with. It won't be for the baseline guys etc.

Just now, pops said:

Assistant coach during recruiting: "We think we will probably have 100k in our collective for qb1"

Sloka "fucking A!  I'm in!"

Agent (who isn't an agent in Nevada which is a big deal in that state) "hey collective, where is that 100k for my client?"

Collective "who the fuck are you and what are you talking about?  Oh, and get registered as an agent before we talk to you"

Coach "what the fuck"

Agent not agent  "what the fuck"

Collective 🤷‍♂️

Sloka "peace, bitches. Thanks for the highlight tape"

Fin

yep, this is pretty much what happened. 

 

I'm not being obtuse and I'm not living in some naive world where the amount of NIL that a player gets isn't a major factor in their willingness to enroll wherever they are going to get the most money/best deal. I'm just saying very explicitly that no collective or university that plans on wanting to keep their wins is blatantly paying for play. 

[Codaxx 5607]

9 minutes ago, pops said:

Assistant coach during recruiting: "We think we will probably have 100k in our collective for qb1"

Sloka "fucking A!  I'm in!"

Agent (who isn't an agent in Nevada which is a big deal in that state) "hey collective, where is that 100k for my client?"

Collective "who the fuck are you and what are you talking about?  Oh, and get registered as an agent before we talk to you"

Coach "what the fuck"

Agent not agent  "what the fuck"

Collective 🤷‍♂️

Sloka "peace, bitches. Thanks for the highlight tape"

Fin

not sure I buy this

He played 4 years at Holy Cross. Completed 57.4% of his passes. 65 TDs and 16 Ints. 100k seems like a lot for UNLV to pay for a decent running QB that is at best mediocre throwing the football. There are a ton of those guys around. 

[Hermanator 6956]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

 

I'm not being obtuse and I'm not living in some naive world where the amount of NIL that a player gets isn't a major factor in their willingness to enroll wherever they are going to get the most money/best deal. I'm just saying very explicitly that no collective or university that plans on wanting to keep their wins is blatantly paying for play. 

 

5 hours ago, immamac said:

This is a bitch move straight up. NIL has nothing to do with playing and this completely unacceptable horseshit. 

He is playing college football not professional. 

There is no way anyone takes this loser in the portal after quitting on his team. He obviously doesn't give a shit about football. 

You may be saying that now, but you weren't quite saying that 5 hours ago. 

 

[immamac 42551]

21 minutes ago, immamac said:

This leaves a ton of room for hurt feelings and a bunch of butthurt or whatever, but what it doesn't provide for is any room to say yeah fuck this I'm not gonna play football at this school anymore, because football has nothing to do with the contract or terms of the deal. If you choose not to play football because you are butthurt about the NIL deal you did or didn't get that makes you a fucking shithead, it doesn't make the collective a scammer, it doesn't make the coaches badguys, it doesn't make the university take responsibility for anything. 

Seems pretty pretty fucking consistent. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10150]

22 minutes ago, immamac said:

it's not PfP and Xavier was never going to "sit out", and he never threatened to transfer. His team was going to maximize his NIL opportunities which were real NIL opportunities that did not include compensation for play or on field performance wherever that would have been, but wanted to stay at Texas if those opportunities were matched or bested. 

You and many others are conflating things together. Just because the team/university/coaching staff benefit from a player being really happy about the NIL deals they are getting, and those deals being way bigger than they arguably should be and have more equivalence to pay for play contract values does not mean that they are pay for play or that any enforcement mechanism, language, expectation, anything is set in contract or even out of the contract to mean "pay for play". This leaves a ton of room for hurt feelings and a bunch of butthurt or whatever, but what it doesn't provide for is any room to say yeah fuck this I'm not gonna play football at this school anymore, because football has nothing to do with the contract or terms of the deal. If you choose not to play football because you are butthurt about the NIL deal you did or didn't get that makes you a fucking shithead, it doesn't make the collective a scammer, it doesn't make the coaches badguys, it doesn't make the university take responsibility for anything. 

This is an extremely important distinction that you keep glazing over with your "handwaving" and magical "it's pfp, but not really in any way at all is it pfp". There is no "grey area" here, they aren't paid to play - full stop.

It's like arguing that PTA's are worthless and stupid and have nothing to do with a school being better/worse than other schools in the same ISD. The PTA is like an NIL deal. They can pay for better playground equipment, new paint for classrooms, all kinds of stuff that the district allows for them and it makes that school more desirable for their children to go to and for other children who want to transfer from other schools in the ISD to that one. 

The NIL program at Texas is like the best fucking PTA in existence that maxes out spending on all the stuff that is allowable by state and local laws to make the school awesome outside of state, isd and federal funding. 

Texas One Fund is a big reason why people like the entirety of their time at the University. It's not the reason they are at the University, but it could be a good reason to look at it because of everyone's raving about past experience and how it makes things just better overall.

 

 

 

To this point, he had one season of eligibility left, he went to UNLV for the NIL opportunites, not to play football at UNLV. Those opportunites didn't pan out so he's going to go elsewhere. It's not about playing football at UNLV.

[JBJ 3649]

14 minutes ago, pops said:

Assistant coach during recruiting: "We think we will probably have 100k in our collective for qb1"

This is probably true.

The fail here seems to be the agent waiting until the season started to secure a deal.  But I'm not sure when the agent was actually hired.  It might be a player/family fail.

[Hermanator 6956]

This is just the bad business of having players getting paid in any official above board capacity. It's going to happen. 

Let's assume the kid got what he was promised and is bailing because after he won those 3 games other programs came with way more money than he's making this year. I assume he's been paid for this year partially but not entirely. 

Yes, it makes him a huge asshole to quit on his team. Yes, it's completely immoral to do it. 

But... He's never going to sniff an NFL roster. If I have it correctly this is his final season of college football eligibility if he doesn't redshirt. By bailing now he has the opportunity to add potentially another $750k+ for next year most likely? 

If he's smart with his money, lives frugally, and he invests it that's potentially life changing money that he can use to limit the amount of time in his life he has to work a real soul sucking job. Honestly, it sucks but if you have that opportunity it's hard to pass it up. 

[orange dream 1241]

@immamac

Who is the GM at Texas? Is there one per sport, or one for men and one for women?

 

Also, for someone who is not already on the team, either a high schooler or someone in the portal, what is the process supposed to look like?  I know NIL is not legal for or supposed to be used as an inducement to go to a school, it is merely a benefit of having made the decision to enroll as a student athlete and actually being on the team. 

I'm assuming the "proposed / acceptable" steps and order of steps are:

1. Decide to matriculate at State U. (signs scholarship deal with school)

2. Collective or individual brands reach out at some point to say congratulations and we would like to tell you about the NIL opportunities that are available to them as a student athlete at this institution of higher learning.

3. Discussions / Negotiations take place between student athlete and the Collective or Brand

4. Contract with collective or brand is signed

5. Student athlete attends classes, plays sport and makes appearances

6. Collective or Brand provides the promised benefit.

 

I suspect that the real order is something like:

1. Recruitment is open (High school or portal entry)

2. Collective or individual brands reach out based on someone's (coach / school, etc.?) suggestion to tell them about the NIL opportunities that are available to them if they come to State U.

3. Discussions / Negotiations take place between student athlete and the Collective or Brand.

4. Agreement is reached (verball, handshake, wink and nod, etc.)

5. Student signs scholarship agreement with school.

6. Contract with collective or brand is signed

7. Student athlete attends classes, plays sport and makes appearances

8. Collective or Brand provides the promised benefit.

As many have said, the legalities vs the practicalities of the situation lead to misunderstandings and the ridiculousness we are seeing play out in front of us.  What is the student athletes recourse if they sign a scholarship agreement / enroll and then the agreed-upon deal with the collective or brand does not materialize?

If another spot is better for this discussion feel free to move it.

 

 

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

I definitely agree with this take.

 

 

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

yep, this is pretty much what happened. 
 
I'm not being obtuse and I'm not living in some naive world where the amount of NIL that a player gets isn't a major factor in their willingness to enroll wherever they are going to get the most money/best deal. I'm just saying very explicitly that no collective or university that plans on wanting to keep their wins is blatantly paying for play. 

Yep we are in “violent agreement,” and I think/hope most surly posters understand that the actual contract doesn’t have any pfp statements, or enforcement mechanisms. Posters are looking “beyond the paper of the contract” at the real drivers and seeing the wink wink part. When rev share shows up it will clean much of this up as you say.

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

13 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

not sure I buy this

He played 4 years at Holy Cross. Completed 57.4% of his passes. 65 TDs and 16 Ints. 100k seems like a lot for UNLV to pay for a decent running QB that is at best mediocre throwing the football. There are a ton of those guys around. 

I get that the passing stats are not great, but he led Holy Cross, a team that seems to mostly go 4-7 to 10-3 and 12-1.  They are now 1-3 so far this year.  I'm guessing he's more than a "decent" running QB.

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

10 minutes ago, JBJ said:

This is probably true.

The fail here seems to be the agent waiting until the season started to secure a deal.  But I'm not sure when the agent was actually hired.  It might be a player/family fail.

From all of the statements, it seems to me that he was promised $100k if he transferred AND won the starting QB job.  Obviously you could not put that in writing, as it would be blatantly against the rules as pay-for-play, so they kept it as a verbal agreement.  He won the starting job, went to UNLV/the collective and was like where is the money, and they told him they didn't have it.

[Codaxx 5607]

4 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

I get that the passing stats are not great, but he led Holy Cross, a team that seems to mostly go 4-7 to 10-3 and 12-1.  They are now 1-3 so far this year.  I'm guessing he's more than a "decent" running QB.

He was better than decent vs the 2023 schedule that featured such powers as Gtown, Lehigh, Fordham, Bucknell, Harvard, Colgate, and Merrimack. Did play Army and BC 

They lost 4 games last year. 

Edited September 25 by Codaxx

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

He was better than decent vs the 2023 schedule that featured such powers as Gtown, Lehigh, Fordham, Bucknell, Harvard, Colgate, and Merrimack. Did play Army and BC 

They lost 4 games last year. 

Pulling a QB from Holy Cross is always going to be a risk, which is probably why they would have only offered him the money if he won the starting job.

[immamac 42551]

9 minutes ago, orange dream said:

@immamac

Who is the GM at Texas? Is there one per sport, or one for men and one for women?

 

Also, for someone who is not already on the team, either a high schooler or someone in the portal, what is the process supposed to look like?  I know NIL is not legal for or supposed to be used as an inducement to go to a school, it is merely a benefit of having made the decision to enroll as a student athlete and actually being on the team. 

I'm assuming the "proposed / acceptable" steps and order of steps are:

1. Decide to matriculate at State U. (signs scholarship deal with school)

2. Collective or individual brands reach out at some point to say congratulations and we would like to tell you about the NIL opportunities that are available to them as a student athlete at this institution of higher learning.

3. Discussions / Negotiations take place between student athlete and the Collective or Brand

4. Contract with collective or brand is signed

5. Student athlete attends classes, plays sport and makes appearances

6. Collective or Brand provides the promised benefit.

 

I suspect that the real order is something like:

1. Recruitment is open (High school or portal entry)

2. Collective or individual brands reach out based on someone's (coach / school, etc.?) suggestion to tell them about the NIL opportunities that are available to them if they come to State U.

3. Discussions / Negotiations take place between student athlete and the Collective or Brand.

4. Agreement is reached (verball, handshake, wink and nod, etc.)

5. Student signs scholarship agreement with school.

6. Contract with collective or brand is signed

7. Student athlete attends classes, plays sport and makes appearances

8. Collective or Brand provides the promised benefit.

As many have said, the legalities vs the practicalities of the situation lead to misunderstandings and the ridiculousness we are seeing play out in front of us.  What is the student athletes recourse if they sign a scholarship agreement / enroll and then the agreed-upon deal with the collective or brand does not materialize?

If another spot is better for this discussion feel free to move it.

 

 

Brandon Harris for Football. GM is currently only a football position, but there are folks within the AD that act in the GM capacity for womens sports as a whole and other mens sports (bball, baseball, etc) In baseball the head coach has acted as GM, I'm not sure how Schloss has it set up atm, but I'm pretty sure his GM/acting GM is Bishop

You aren't too far off on the "real order", I will speak for the collectives I know that no verbal agreement or offer is made prior to commitment/transfer. There is talk about what athlete expectations are and if those expectations align with a potential reality and scenario at Texas. There is a lot that can happen between an Agent and the collective but not directly from the player and the collective even before they are enrolled at the university that are completely legal and everyone is doing the same thing, as close as they can to the line. 

I would say your scenarios are great at distinctly calling out the difference in what they are being paid to do and why/when they enrolled. I'm not here saying without NIL that all these dudes come here, I'm saying that they don't come here only because of NIL. At some schools that could definitely not be the case, they are going there purely for the NIL opportunity and the only reason that exists is because the collective is overpaying for NIL because they desire to field a competitive football team. 

What the collective gets out of it and what the athlete get out of it are two different things, the university is actually the beneficiary of the collective aligning with their common goal: fielding a competitive football team. 

[DaysOff 7854]

I get that the passing stats are not great, but he led Holy Cross, a team that seems to mostly go 4-7 to 10-3 and 12-1.  They are now 1-3 so far this year.  I'm guessing he's more than a "decent" running QB.

Why didn't that twerp Rudy play for Holy Cross?

[Codaxx 5607]

4 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

Pulling a QB from Holy Cross is always going to be a risk, which is probably why they would have only offered him the money if he won the starting job.

I have no idea what happened. There are 2 competing rumors out there. The other being he hired an agent, and the agent told him he could get him more money. They asked UNLV to match and UNLV said beat it, so the kid could not play another game for eligibility reasons. 

Could be UNLV didnt pay what was promised, I just cant imagine what was promised being in the 6 figures. 

Edited September 25 by Codaxx

[Iceman 2646]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

No, it's not as underhanded and shady as you guys are making it seem and there are actually a lot of rules that protect everyone from situations exactly like this. 

That's why doing shit the way you guys are saying and defending IS THE CAUSE of shitty situations like this. 

I said nothing about the merit of NIL. You inferred whatever you personally inferred for reasons unknown relevant, for that matter. 
 

Pay for play is not nefarious at all. It simply describes the situation for what it is. Again, it is ludicrous for you to insist these exchanges, or contracts, are driven by anything other that a person’s attachment to the Athletic department of a respective school’s boosters. It is not some random act of a business agreement,  so just fucking stop. 
 

It doesn’t mean NIL is good or bad, nor does it place any moral value on what people offering/ accepting NIL agreements do. They are legal agreements, to your  point. They are still a construct to avoid legal/ labor regulation and provide a more regulated( lol) medium for paying participants of college sports. 
 

 

Edited September 25 by Iceman

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I have no idea what happened. There are 2 competing rumors out there. The other being he hired an agent, and the agent told him he could get him more money. They asked UNLV to match and UNLV said beat it, so the kid could not play another game for eligibility reasons. 

Could be UNLV didnt pay what was promised, I just cant imagine what was promised being in the 6 figures. 

Eh - For a starting QB that could potentially lead you to the first 12 team playoff and a multi-million dollar windfall?

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

2 hours ago, Texas Wahoo said:

LOL. It was probably Marion that promised him the $100k.

 

 

[Kwix 2186]

So he was paid $3k with alleged "discussions" of up to $9k more.  We really believe that was all he was promised when he transferred?

Sure he should have been more proactive in getting a contract, but I don't fault him for walking given that UNLV's collective admits he's only been paid $3k up to this point.

Edited September 25 by Kwix

[JBJ 3649]

15 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

From all of the statements, it seems to me that he was promised $100k if he transferred AND won the starting QB job.  Obviously you could not put that in writing, as it would be blatantly against the rules as pay-for-play, so they kept it as a verbal agreement.  He won the starting job, went to UNLV/the collective and was like where is the money, and they told him they didn't have it.

This is one of the reasons why pfp arrangements aren't allowed.

Edited September 25 by JBJ

[Josef Pwag 1728]

1 minute ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

If you won't pay a QB 100K that could lead your team to the playoff, you need to get out of big boy college football. I wouldn't bame the kid if he was offered 100K and demanded 250K. I've seen coaches leave before the season was over because it was in their own financial best interest. I am fine with players doing the same. 

[immamac 42551]

5 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I said nothing about the merit of NIL. You inferred whatever you personally inferred for reasons unknown relevant, for that matter. 
 

Pay for play is not nefarious at all. It simply describes the situation for what it is. Again, it is ludicrous for you to insist these exchanges, or contracts, are driven by anything other that a person’s attachment to the Athletic department of a respective school’s boosters. It is not some random act of a business agreement,  so just fucking stop. 
 

It doesn’t mean NIL is good or bad, nor does it place any moral value on what people offering/ accepting NIL agreements do. They are legal agreements, to your  point. They are still a construct to avoid legal/ labor regulation and provide a more regulated( lol) medium for paying participants of college sports. 
 

 

is this mental gymnastics or are my posts that express clear intent quid pro quo and fall within the guidelines that are published publicly mental gymnastics? 

That's the difference and why I'm telling you guys to stop. Stop conflating bullshit, it makes NIL and pay for play nefarious. 

[JBJ 3649]

5 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

Eh - For a starting QB that could potentially lead you to the first 12 team playoff and a multi-million dollar windfall?

None of that was really on the plate during transfer season.  From both the perspective of the player being worth that and that UNLV has a chance to make the playoff.

[tokamak 6353]

24 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

I definitely agree with this take.

 

 

[Codaxx 5607]

10 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

Eh - For a starting QB that could potentially lead you to the first 12 team playoff and a multi-million dollar windfall?

I dont know if there are enough drugs in Vegas for anyone to have even considered the playoffs, when this kid transferred. 

[Iceman 2646]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

is this mental gymnastics or are my posts that express clear intent quid pro quo and fall within the guidelines that are published publicly mental gymnastics? 

That's the difference and why I'm telling you guys to stop. Stop conflating bullshit, it makes NIL and pay for play nefarious. 

How many non athletes have you entered official NIL agreements with?

why?

Edited September 25 by Iceman

[sith_horn 2370]

5 hours ago, immamac said:

He obviously doesn't give a shit about football. 

Or grammar for that matter ... “I committed to UNLV based on certain representatives that were made to me,..."

[Hellraiser97 180]

3 hours ago, Da Fino said:

Stop being so toxic

Yeah, there are plenty of other reasons we're a bunch of idiots!