UNLV starting QB: fuck this shit, I'm outta here (check bounced)

[gofuckyourself 8132]

Sounds like an uncle got involved.

There's always an uncle.

[Hank Kingsley 20727]

 

['stache 21778]

12 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

Here is how understand NIL works using a real world example:

Back in 1998 and 1999, José Lima was a starting pitcher for the Houston Astros, winning 37 games in two seasons and was selected to the 1999 National League All-Star team. This was so called "Lima Time" rocking and Casa Olé (Fresh today, every day!) signed Lima to a deal in which he appeared in television commercials promoting the fine Mexican cuisine and ambiance offered by the Houston area restaraunt chain. In 2000, José's heat lost its spice and he had a league worst 6.65 ERA and gave up 48 enchiladas. The Astros traded him the following season. Casa Olé paid him to advertise for them based on the idea that his successful pitching would cause fans to choose Case Olé for their fine dining needs and purchase more tacos, burritos, green sauce and the like. Once he was no longer an effective pitcher for the Astros, his value to Casa Ole deteriorated like old queso. His was not paid to play even if his value was derived from his successful play.

In my mind, college sports NIL is the same. Being an athlete creates value but the contract does not require athletic performance. A specific player is valuable to local business seeking an NIL partner while a member of the local team. Once that player disassociates themselves from the local team, then value goes away.

The bold is where NIL in college is different in practice. The money being exchanged (most of it at least) is not legitimately to advance the payor's business interests but to entice the best players to sign with said business owners' alma mater. Imma is correct that on paper it's an arms length business deal to promote a company, brand, etc., but everyone knows it's really about enticing players to sign with your favorite school.

[Kwix 2186]

Good luck in your future NIL endeavors UNLV

['stache 21778]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

 

If it was a coach making an unsanctioned promise the school and collective might be able to save some face by scapegoating the coach. They'd need to be sure not to smear the kid though. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3211]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Is it just me or is their NIL collective abbreviating their name with "UNILV" in this statement just kinda silly? 

['stache 21778]

11 minutes ago, horn009 said:

Do you really think all of these 18-year-olds are filing their taxes properly? The IRS will be showing up at a lot of these kids' doors in the near future if I had to guess. That will escalate things quicker than anything else will. 

The IRS cares about people who don't pay taxes regardless of the reason. They aren't going to take a stance against NIL deals because some of them will fail or refuse to report. They'll be treated the same as any other tax cheat. There are literally millions of them out there and this might constitute a fraction of a percent of the people they're pursuing for unpaid taxes. 

[mvlonghorns 285]

So basically this kid and/or his agent are idiots and never had any real discussion with UNLV's NIL people. It seems like the important thing to figure out is what exactly did Odom or another UNLV coach tell him about NIL. Was it "we think you could make $100k in NIL" or was it "We will pay you $100k in NIL", because if it's the former then the kid and his team are entirely responsible for this situation.

[Vito Andolini 9115]

I want to know when Cromartie was hired: was he brought on to represent Sluka after the alleged $100K promise or was he already involved?

[CBHorn 414]

9 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The bold is where NIL in college is different in practice. The money being exchanged (most of it at least) is not legitimately to advance the payor's business interests but to entice the best players to sign with said business owners' alma mater. Imma is correct that on paper it's an arms length business deal to promote a company, brand, etc., but everyone knows it's really about enticing players to sign with your favorite school.

While my post was mostly an attempt at humor, I think we can agree that there is certainly some NIL money being paid solely because an athlete being associated with a particular team makes people with money happy just like I'm sure the head honchos at Casa Olé laughed every time they saw José Lima wearing a sombrero, doing a shimmy and singing, "Casa Olé, Fresh Today! Every Day! Casa Olé!!!"

Edited September 25 by CBHorn

[LTtxfan 49007]

15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

10 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

Coordinated response 3mins apart using lapdawgs of McMurphy and Thamel...   😂😂😂😂😂😂 

 

 

Edited September 25 by LTtxfan

[Magus Ossis 2784]

Pay for play is: here is your money for last week's game; here is your money for last week's statistics; here is your money for next month's game against State; here is your money for next month's statistics.

(To date, with legit contracts) NIL != PfP. Full stop. Does the likelihood of or reality of playing at school X change the market for NIL? Of course. No one is arguing otherwise. But don't be fatuous and say that Burnt Ends payments to tight ends that (1) don't even see the field during the contract year, (2) do, in fact have a contract (not with the school), and (3) fulfill the terms of their contract are PfP.

If you interpret financial benefit that is associated with being a member in good standing of the football squad (especially a promising one at a position of need) as pay-for-play, then you have tautologically created your own conclusion. When you define something as more or less than it is, you can create or banish it quite easily.

Some NIL will be motivated by love of school, some by love of publicity, some by market analysis and choice of profitable publicity. If the average UT student could demonstrably do a commercial that helped sell product X, he would get a contract. Does NIL get canceled for season-ending injury? If no, I guess it isn't PfP. If you see pointing out nuance as dissimulation, you will never be convinced.

[Beau Vine 54013]

1 hour ago, sith_horn said:

Or grammar for that matter ... “I committed to UNLV based on certain representatives that were made to me,..."

Representatives? 

Maybe they promised him whores and didn't deliver?

[Newy25 7638]

Without knowing whose version of the story is true there still are lessons some schools need to learn. Be crystal clear with the guy you are signing to play QB for your team about NIL so something like this does not happen. Regardless of how it’s all arbitrated in the end you are without your starting QB and your school looks mismanaged at best and untrustworthy at worst. 

[royiv 9174]

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

[LTtxfan 49007]

1 minute ago, royiv said:

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

[markstanco 12523]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

Im sure a lot of people did, until they found out what their muntlies would be for the next 84 months. 

[bad_teammate 13139]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

Probably not that directly, but I think it's pretty foolish to believe there's no boost to Lambo's profile among its target segment (new money, flashy wealthy) when high-profile athletes are featured.

[JBJ 3649]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

Branding works a little bit different for luxury goods than groceries, but, yes, people actually do this.

[Beau Vine 54013]

35 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

Here is how understand NIL works using a real world example:

Back in 1998 and 1999, José Lima was a starting pitcher for the Houston Astros, winning 37 games in two seasons and was selected to the 1999 National League All-Star team. This was so called "Lima Time" rocking and Casa Olé (Fresh today, every day!) signed Lima to a deal in which he appeared in television commercials promoting the fine Mexican cuisine and ambiance offered by the Houston area restaraunt chain. In 2000, José's heat lost its spice and he had a league worst 6.65 ERA and gave up 48 enchiladas. The Astros traded him the following season. Casa Olé paid him to advertise for them based on the idea that his successful pitching would cause fans to choose Case Olé for their fine dining needs and purchase more tacos, burritos, green sauce and the like. Once he was no longer an effective pitcher for the Astros, his value to Casa Ole deteriorated like old queso. His was not paid to play even if his value was derived from his successful play.

I am morally obligated to post pics of Jose Lima's wife whenever he's mentioned:

 

[immamac 42551]

3 minutes ago, royiv said:

I don’t think anyone has thought “I ought to go down to Lamborghini of Austin and pick up a new Lambo” because they saw a Texas football player driving one.

this is misleading at best. There has been a pretty significant amount of attribution done with these NIL brand deals and the corporate brand deals have an ROI component they have to satisfy to continue doing the deals. It's why Dr. Pepper continues to pick big name QB's for fansville etc. They actually do make money and/or see sales traction or brand affinity because of these deals. 

I haven't seen the raw numbers for lamborghini, but I've helped facilitate as have many others on this board corporate NIL deals that weren't just for fun and to pay players because they liked the football team. These deals turn into real money for the companies. 

[txpete99 24]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

This is a bitch move straight up. NIL has nothing to do with playing and this completely unacceptable horseshit. 

He is playing college football not professional. 

There is no way anyone takes this loser in the portal after quitting on his team. He obviously doesn't give a shit about football. 

I don't think it's about playing for pay. I'm sure some alum said that they'd pay him if he signed, blah, blah, blah, and no contract to be seen. The university needs to get their alum in check, and be sure the athlete understands verbal commitments are just that, verbal, not contracts.  This is a learning experience for Matt too. Get that shit in writing!

 

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Probably not that directly, but I think it's pretty foolish to believe there's no boost to Lambo's profile among its target segment (new money, flashy wealthy) when high-profile athletes are featured.

CTJ has said they've seen very good results from the partnership and Lamborghini HQ in Italy sees it as a positive. 

[Skipper 6105]

Just now, JBJ said:

Branding works a little bit different for luxury goods than groceries, but, yes, people actually do this.

I mean 'croots getting Lambo's' at Texas is talked about on message boards and sports twitter all over the country every time we have a recruiting event.   There is absolutely value to the Lambo brand for their NIL relationship with Texas players.

[immamac 42551]

8 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Without knowing whose version of the story is true there still are lessons some schools need to learn. Be crystal clear with the guy you are signing to play QB for your team about NIL so something like this does not happen. Regardless of how it’s all arbitrated in the end you are without your starting QB and your school looks mismanaged at best and untrustworthy at worst. 

I mean it's pretty obvious what happened here. He wanted to get paid to play, he didn't want to get paid for NIL. 

Of course most people on this thread think they are the same thing and apparently so did his dumb as fuck agent and that's why he got told to go fuck himself. 

The rules are the rules and the law is the law apparently for some of you that doesn't matter, and you are the same group that would find yourself in this situation personally if you were involved in NIL.

[Beau Vine 54013]

15 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

Pay for play is: here is your money for last week's game; here is your money for last week's statistics; here is your money for next month's game against State; here is your money for next month's statistics.

I mean, you're making up your own definition here. 

And by your definition, the NFL is not even pay-for-play.

[immamac 42551]

Just now, Beau Vine said:

I mean, you're making up your own definition here. 

And by your definition, the NFL is not even pay-for-play.

The NFL quite literally pays weekly and has incentives for performance on the field. Lmao 

[royiv 9174]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

this is misleading at best. There has been a pretty significant amount of attribution done with these NIL brand deals and the corporate brand deals have an ROI component they have to satisfy to continue doing the deals. It's why Dr. Pepper continues to pick big name QB's for fansville etc. They actually do make money and/or see sales traction or brand affinity because of these deals. 

I haven't seen the raw numbers for lamborghini, but I've helped facilitate as have many others on this board corporate NIL deals that weren't just for fun and to pay players because they liked the football team. These deals turn into real money for the companies. 

Lamborghini and Dr. Pepper are slightly different brands. I get what you’re saying, but also understand that Lamborghini, with the exception of the Urus, does not sell a ton of vehicles to someone who pops in off the street and says sell me a new Lambo. Try walking into your local Hermes store and ask to purchase a Birkin. Please post the results here or, better yet, video and post it here for the lolz.

[Newy25 7638]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

I mean it's pretty obvious what happened here. He wanted to get paid to play, he didn't want to get paid for NIL. 

Of course most people on this thread think they are the same thing and apparently so did his dumb as fuck agent and that's why he got told to go fuck himself. 

The rules are the rules and the law is the law apparently for some of you that doesn't matter, and you are the same group that would find yourself in this situation personally if you were involved in NIL.

I understand that. But somehow we sign players in the portal as do most schools. We somehow communicate with them about NIL expectations and they choose to go to Texas and things seemingly work out. Money is involved in that transaction. How are UNLV and their starting QB so far off base? You are saying you know for sure how that went down. How? 

[royiv 9174]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

The NFL quite literally pays weekly and has incentives for performance on the field. Lmao 

True, but we’re also seeing a big move, especially for the big name players, to guaranteed money contracts so even if they get paid weekly, it’s a set amount no matter their production or playing time. See Dak Prescott.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3211]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

I haven't seen the raw numbers for lamborghini, but I've helped facilitate as have many others on this board corporate NIL deals that weren't just for fun and to pay players because they liked the football team. These deals turn into real money for the companies. 

So when do the players start getting their cut of that money? NIL deal of an NIL deal...




 

[Beau Vine 54013]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

The NFL quite literally pays weekly and has incentives for performance on the field. Lmao 

Serious question: Is this true?

I'm more familiar with MLB, and MLB incentives can only be for playing time.  You can't put incentive clauses in contracts that are based on how many homers you hit or how many strikeouts you accumulate.   

If there's a bye week, do NFL players not get paid that week?

 

[JBJ 3649]

3 minutes ago, royiv said:

Lamborghini and Dr. Pepper are slightly different brands. I get what you’re saying, but also understand that Lamborghini, with the exception of the Urus, does not sell a ton of vehicles to someone who pops in off the street and says sell me a new Lambo. Try walking into your local Hermes store and ask to purchase a Birkin. Please post the results here or, better yet, video and post it here for the lolz.

Most of the marketing value in luxury goods is creating in aura of "cool/trendy/hype" around your product.  Having players like Bijan and Worthy show your product, lining up your cars as an attraction on recruiting weekend...all that contributes.

[immamac 42551]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Serious question: Is this true?

I'm more familiar with MLB, and MLB incentives can only be for playing time.  You can't put incentive clauses in contracts that are based on how many homers you hit or how many strikeouts you accumulate.   

If there's a bye week, do NFL players not get paid that week?

 

Correct. They get paid game checks and even pay taxes in each different state they play the game in. This is true for baseball, basketball, football, etc. NFL specifically has clauses for performance incentives such as yards gained, td's scored, etc etc. Gronk and Brady famously stayed in a game one time even when being pulled so they could get to his incentive numbers. 

They also get paid for participating in camps etc, they don't really get any money in the offseason and have to budget accordingly outside of some base stuff that I think they need to have for employment reasons. 

[Hank Kingsley 20727]

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

I mean it's pretty obvious what happened here. He wanted to get paid to play, he didn't want to get paid for NIL. 

Of course most people on this thread think they are the same thing and apparently so did his dumb as fuck agent and that's why he got told to go fuck himself. 

The rules are the rules and the law is the law apparently for some of you that doesn't matter, and you are the same group that would find yourself in this situation personally if you were involved in NIL.

I guess this needs to spelled out for you. Many of us are not convinced that that UNLV, their coaching staff, and NIL team were playing by the rules or fairly in this particular situation. 

But go ahead and simp for these SPECIFIC institutions you know fuck all about. 

 

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3211]

 

I think Pete found at least 1 college head coach that sees NIL like some of us do, very thinly veiled pay for play and the "rules are rules and law is law" hogwash doesn't really mean much...

 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, JBJ said:

Most of the marketing value in luxury goods is creating in aura of "cool/trendy/hype" around your product.  Having players like Bijan and Worthy show your product, lining up your cars as an attraction on recruiting weekend...all that contributes.

I get the concept, but I struggle to imagine street car Lamborghinis without the aura of cool, trendy, and hype, regardless. Maybe for some company trying to get into the supercar/hypercar market, yeah. Lamborghini is, afaik, already basically a cultural synonym for that market. Maybe it pulls people away from Ferrari or something. Interesting question. 

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

 

🤣

[USC_TMB 405]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

This is a bitch move straight up. NIL has nothing to do with playing and this completely unacceptable horseshit. 

He is playing college football not professional. 

There is no way anyone takes this loser in the portal after quitting on his team. He obviously doesn't give a shit about football. 

Jumping in late, but even Stevie Wonder could see something like this happening.  I don’t know, or care about this guy, or unlv, but my spidey-senses are calling BS. IF there was a written agreement/contract, then pursue legal remedies, don’t run to X and say I’m taking my ball and going elsewhere.  You’d think Guy  Fieri would toss some coin his way.

When I was doing consulting/contract work during the Dot-Com boom, there were constant offers of “perks and stock options” that were as much vaporware as the business model. The rule was, and still is… GET THAT SHIT IN WRITING!  If you jump on a verbal agreement, that’s on you if it goes south. His parents/advisors/agent did him no favors.

Imma is correct that nobody is going to offer this guy unless every QB on the team goes missing. Particularly as a player who isn’t going to sniff the NFL… if he was an elite QB, maybe, but if I was a player I’d wonder what his commitment is.

[immamac 42551]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I guess this needs to spelled out for you. Many of us are not convinced that that UNLV, their coaching staff, and NIL team were playing by the rules or fairly in this particular situation. 

But go ahead and simp for these SPECIFIC institutions you know fuck all about. 

 

 

Sweet, that's an argument that has merit. I'm not simping for anything. Fuck UNLV, Fuck Marion for thinking he was still at Texas offering NIL amounts that his collective couldn't fund and fuck this kids entire team for putting him in such a stupid ass position and ruining what he probably had left of brand value. 

 

[4th and 5 4914]

4 hours ago, immamac said:

It's not legally obtuse. 

If your pussy hurts from a non enforceable legal framework that is clearly spelled out then you are the fuck up.

That's why this situation sucks for EVERYONE. I'm not saying this guy shouldn't get paid more or shouldn't have a grievance. The way he went about it, publicly quit the team and told everyone to go fuck themselves is anti team, anti brand and shows a level of selfishness that is remarkable even in today's world. 

Its shitty for the team because they are doing really well, they are now being punished by a main part of their offense just quitting for reasons that have nothing to do with coaching philosophy, playtime, injury, anything to do with football, anything to do with relationships of the players on that team etc. 

Its shitty for the institution because they have to protect their brand, quell any notion that they and the boosters are scamming people to come there and obviously remove the stipend and scholarship from this player who is refusing to participate in team activities as is most likely in his scholarship contract. 

The boosters/collectives lose a ton of credibility and have to explicitly shit on this guy in public to save their image or just kinda take one on the chin and hope people take the explanation privately later on. 

Its shitty for everyone. Its completely lose lose, there is no win in it for anyone and this guy is gonna get fucking crucified in the portal next season because no one wants to normalize this behavior. 

 

 

[Huckleberry 32710]

17 minutes ago, immamac said:

The NFL quite literally pays weekly and has incentives for performance on the field. Lmao 

The NFL quite literally gives guaranteed money in many cases. Pretty sure he was referring to that last argument 

[royiv 9174]

9 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Most of the marketing value in luxury goods is creating in aura of "cool/trendy/hype" around your product.  Having players like Bijan and Worthy show your product, lining up your cars as an attraction on recruiting weekend...all that contributes.

My wife is a design and marketing expert that has worked in the ultra luxury segment for a number of years. I fully understand how it works. I was originally making an offhand joke about Lamborghini seeing a race to the dealership to pick up a sports car based on seeing a 19 year old athlete driving one. And then we got a comparison between Lamborghini and Dr. Pepper which made it all worth it.

[The Earl of Texas 3131]

 

[Hermanator 6965]

1 hour ago, Lidig8r said:

well fuck me sideways on a bed of sneks with Linda Cohn...

I learned something new today ... Had no idea the university had a GM for the football program.

I only knew it was Brandon Harris during the summer when CTJ was running his ass down in the 9.95 recruiting threads when Dakorian Moore and a few others committed elsewhere. 

Haven't seen anyone saying he doesn't know what he's doing these days...

[royiv 9174]

12 minutes ago, immamac said:

Correct. They get paid game checks and even pay taxes in each different state they play the game in. This is true for baseball, basketball, football, etc. NFL specifically has clauses for performance incentives such as yards gained, td's scored, etc etc. Gronk and Brady famously stayed in a game one time even when being pulled so they could get to his incentive numbers. 

They also get paid for participating in camps etc, they don't really get any money in the offseason and have to budget accordingly outside of some base stuff that I think they need to have for employment reasons. 

This is misleading at best. Do those contracts exist? Yes. Is that the trend in contracts for marquee players these days? Nope.

[JBJ 3649]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The NFL quite literally gives guaranteed money in many cases. Pretty sure he was referring to that last argument 

Game checks are usually guaranteed for good players and would qualify as pay-for-play.  It doesn't necessarily need to be a production incentive.

[royiv 9174]

10 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I get the concept, but I struggle to imagine street car Lamborghinis without the aura of cool, trendy, and hype, regardless. Maybe for some company trying to get into the supercar/hypercar market, yeah. Lamborghini is, afaik, already basically a cultural synonym for that market. Maybe it pulls people away from Ferrari or something. Interesting question. 

So much this. Funny you bring up Ferrari vs Lamborghini. While they compete in the same category, they each have a different target audience. The Venn diagram overlaps, but it’s not a perfect circle.

[immamac 42551]

I'm out y'all are just trolling now. 

['stache 21778]

30 minutes ago, immamac said:

I mean it's pretty obvious what happened here. He wanted to get paid to play, he didn't want to get paid for NIL. 

Of course most people on this thread think they are the same thing and apparently so did his dumb as fuck agent and that's why he got told to go fuck himself. 

The rules are the rules and the law is the law apparently for some of you that doesn't matter, and you are the same group that would find yourself in this situation personally if you were involved in NIL.

Let's say as a technical matter the deal was "If you come play QB at UNLV, that position comes with a high profile, and we have commitments that you'll get paid $100,000 to appear in a series of television commercials for local and national businesses." He wins the job, has success, and when asked about the promise is told "sorry, those businesses are no longer interested in paying you to appear in their commercials." 

If the facts are similar to that, I think he's more than justified in saying fuck this, I can quit now and find another QB job next year with a higher profile and with better access to advertising dollars. At that point we're just splitting hairs over what "paid to play" means. I think it's unfair to say "he wanted to get paid to play and he's a dumbass because that's not how NIL works." To get super technical it wasn't pay to play but pay to choose UNLV over a competitor. 

Edited September 25 by 'stache