UNLV starting QB: fuck this shit, I'm outta here (check bounced)

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

Just now, 'stache said:

The hypothetical was that selling lemonade was illegal so you sell the cup with the expectation that lemonade will accompany the cup. Imma is correct that the rules still preclude payments for playing so they are written as "brand ambassador" contracts and they get $100K to do a 20 second recording for a local car dealership commercial. We all know it's pay for play, but if the player decides to leave, the dealership can't sue him for their money back, because the contract was for the radio add. That's the only real difference, the way these are papered up is a complete pretext. 

He’s explicitly denying that it’s pay for play. 

Yes, as I wrote earlier, it’s a legal structure designed to obscure reality. That doesn’t change what we all know to be the reality. Well, almost all of us. 

['stache 22131]

Just now, horn009 said:

I think that legal issues will eventually derail NIL or at least cause significant regulations of it. Also, it's only a matter of time before the IRS gets involved with NIL earnings. 

I think part of the big settlement is that direct payments for playing will be legal and things will look different going forward. It will get regulated eventually one way or another. Not sure what the IRS cares, if you make money, you report it as income and pay taxes, if you don't, you're in some doo doo.

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

4 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Hot take: Sluka is tacitly admitting that he understood his deal to be pay-for-play and should be suspended by the NCAA.

What?  If we assume his side of the story is correct.  Then he was promised money and never received it, so he is going to sit out and transfer for next year.  Which part of that requires the deal to be pay-for-play?  The problem is that he was not paid what he was promised, not that he was not paid for play.

[markstanco 12785]

48 minutes ago, horn009 said:

NIL is turning college into a game of the highest bidder. It's basically a watered down NFL right now. The sport will eventually lose its charm as these trends continue. 

You say this like it is something new.

 

[immamac 44312]

2 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Their playing on the team is the sine qua non of the deal and any other view is purposefully obtuse. 

Illegal based on what law? An illegal contract, why, exactly?

It's not legally obtuse. 

If your pussy hurts from a non enforceable legal framework that is clearly spelled out then you are the fuck up.

That's why this situation sucks for EVERYONE. I'm not saying this guy shouldn't get paid more or shouldn't have a grievance. The way he went about it, publicly quit the team and told everyone to go fuck themselves is anti team, anti brand and shows a level of selfishness that is remarkable even in today's world. 

Its shitty for the team because they are doing really well, they are now being punished by a main part of their offense just quitting for reasons that have nothing to do with coaching philosophy, playtime, injury, anything to do with football, anything to do with relationships of the players on that team etc. 

Its shitty for the institution because they have to protect their brand, quell any notion that they and the boosters are scamming people to come there and obviously remove the stipend and scholarship from this player who is refusing to participate in team activities as is most likely in his scholarship contract. 

The boosters/collectives lose a ton of credibility and have to explicitly shit on this guy in public to save their image or just kinda take one on the chin and hope people take the explanation privately later on. 

Its shitty for everyone. Its completely lose lose, there is no win in it for anyone and this guy is gonna get fucking crucified in the portal next season because no one wants to normalize this behavior. 

[closetohumping 17803]

16 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I agree it's losing charm, but I can't think of a logical or economic justification that the people who risk their health to create a product that generates billions of dollars in revenue should do so for free because of charm and history. It used to be an amateur sport when they were kids playing a game and covering their costs through ticket sales and concessions. TV revenues have changed everything. 

Didn’t ever have charm in my mind 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13427]

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

As brand ambassadors for surly? We've done several non player things for people to rep or push surly. How many deals have you done for brand representation or name image and likeness?

We understand your need to protect the facade but you literally shitting on common sense. Shut off all Texas players’ NIL and see how many quit the team. Guess what? Nobody in their right mind would blame them.

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

Just now, immamac said:

It's not legally obtuse. 

If your pussy hurts from a non enforceable legal framework that is clearly spelled out then you are the fuck up.

That's why this situation sucks for EVERYONE. I'm not saying this guy shouldn't get paid more or shouldn't have a grievance. The way he went about it, publicly quit the team and told everyone to go fuck themselves is anti team, anti brand and shows a level of selfishness that is remarkable even in today's world. 

Its shitty for the team because they are doing really well, they are now being punished by a main part of their offense just quitting for reasons that have nothing to do with coaching philosophy, playtime, injury, anything to do with football, anything to do with relationships of the players on that team etc. 

Its shitty for the institution because they have to protect their brand, quell any notion that they and the boosters are scamming people to come there and obviously remove the stipend and scholarship from this player who is refusing to participate in team activities as is most likely in his scholarship contract. 

The boosters/collectives lose a ton of credibility and have to explicitly shit on this guy in public to save their image or just kinda take one on the chin and hope people take the explanation privately later on. 

Its shitty for everyone. Its completely lose lose, there is no win in it for anyone and this guy is gonna get fucking crucified in the portal next season because no one wants to normalize this behavior. 

My pussy doesn’t hurt because I disagree with you. Grow the fuck up. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3510]

Lots of hand wringing over what is and isn't "Pay for Play" in this thread when its fairly obvious what the truth is, has been, and always will be:

 

New/different info starting to come out, what an absolute abject shit show this is turning out to be, new-PAC leadership got to be thrilled that suddenly they aren't the biggest mess in CFB this week:

 

 

[Deej 77803]

42 minutes ago, horn009 said:

Part of what made college football unique compared to the NFL was that before NIL, it seemed like the players had a genuine attachment to the programs that they played for.

[horn009 139]

2 minutes ago, markstanco said:

You say this like it is something new.

 

A car is nothing compared to throwing millions of dollars at an 18-year-old because a recruiting service said that they have really good potential. They're getting paid that kind of money without having proven anything on the field yet. 

Edited September 25 by horn009

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

 

 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13427]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Its shitty for everyone. Its completely lose lose, there is no win in it for anyone and this guy is gonna get fucking crucified in the portal next season because no one wants to normalize this behavior. 

And players don’t want to normalize not getting what they are promised, Mr. Plantation owner.

[Iceman 2978]

20 minutes ago, immamac said:

Stop telling me shit isn't how it is when I am the one signing fucking deals with players. You armchair jock sniffers who commentate can fuck off. Sign a fucking deal then you get to talk to me about how it actually works. 

There is a lot that goes into it and it isn't Hurrrrr durrrr pay for play lolololol. 

You are (willfully)confusing legalese with application/ reality. 
 

it doesn’t tarnish what you are doing, or any school for that matter. Just ask yourself why your efforts don’t benefit the Mass Comm College or Department of Music. 
 

It’s not personal. It’s just business. 

[JBJ 3816]

2 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

What?  If we assume his side of the story is correct.  Then he was promised money and never received it, so he is going to sit out and transfer for next year.  Which part of that requires the deal to be pay-for-play?  The problem is that he was not paid what he was promised, not that he was not paid for play.

Why sit out at all? 

....Nvm; I see now that he only has a year of eligibility, so he kind of has to sit out.

 

[immamac 44312]

Oh look! Dude didn't have a contract and didn't get paid to play and an assistant coach who isn't allowed to negotiate NIL deals is the guy who is being blamed. 

So this guy who did absolutely nothing right, negotiated nothing and is airing his grievances and quitting his team publicly because he's a dunce who was duped by some assistant coach who can't possibly represent the collective or the university in what he was offering. Got it got it. Seems like this guy made the right decision and it's all on the up and up. Nothing to see here. 

[JBJ 3816]

What I'm gathering is that Marcus Cromartie of Equity Sports seems like an idiot.

[BurntOrange&White 41842]

[TreatyOak 17330]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

This is a bitch move straight up. NIL has nothing to do with playing and this completely unacceptable horseshit. 

He is playing college football not professional. 

I agree 100%.

He's undermining the honest, completely upstanding and highly-regarded world of big-time college sports. 

[immamac 44312]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

You are (willfully)confusing legalese with application/ reality. 
 

it doesn’t tarnish what you are doing, or any school for that matter. Just ask yourself why your efforts don’t benefit the Mass Comm College or Department of Music. 
 

It’s not personal. It’s just business. 

No I'm not. I'm telling you all how it is. This isn't business because he can't get paid to play. The entire premise of its just business is ridiculous. 

Now that the full story has seemingly come out and it's believable. Look how bad EVERYONE looks. It doesn't absolve the player of shit. It makes him arguably look dumber and worse. They never even SPOKE to the collective, the mechanism for funding the supposed NIL deal that is now being openly admitted to as a tampering violation, portal violation and inducement. 

Everything and everyone in this situation loses because of how idiots like you are thinking. You think it's pay for play and unspoken entitlements matter. They fucking don't and now this team is fucked and everyone involved is fucked. 

 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13427]

I guess heat exhaustion, immediately followed by the ice bucket challenge, really does do permanent brain damage.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3510]

7 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

Kinda wish this trash fire of a situation would have happened somewhere other than UNLV, could you think of the glorious meltdown that would be happening at a big-time program if something this stupid happened 

[Iceman 2978]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

No I'm not. I'm telling you all how it is. This isn't business because he can't get paid to play. The entire premise of its just business is ridiculous. 

Now that the full story has seemingly come out and it's believable. Look how bad EVERYONE looks. It doesn't absolve the player of shit. It makes him arguably look dumber and worse. They never even SPOKE to the collective, the mechanism for funding the supposed NIL deal that is now being openly admitted to as a tampering violation, portal violation and inducement. 

Everything and everyone in this situation loses because of how idiots like you are thinking. You think it's pay for play and unspoken entitlements matter. They fucking don't and now this team is fucked and everyone involved is fucked. 

 

"we disagree: you are an idiot."

Think we are done here sir.  Thank you for the demonstration of discussions in today's society.

 

Everyone knows it's pay for play.  Just keep wrangling with that sanctimonious bullshit in your head.

Edited September 25 by Iceman

[Dewey 3330]

They shook on it!

[Evil Bill Obrien 3510]

1 minute ago, Dewey said:

They shook on it!

A GENTLEMAN'S AGREEMENT!!

Edited September 25 by Evil Bill Obrien

[Hank Kingsley 21743]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Oh look! Dude didn't have a contract and didn't get paid to play and an assistant coach who isn't allowed to negotiate NIL deals is the guy who is being blamed. 

So this guy who did absolutely nothing right, negotiated nothing and is airing his grievances and quitting his team publicly because he's a dunce who was duped by some assistant coach who can't possibly represent the collective or the university in what he was offering. Got it got it. Seems like this guy made the right decision and it's all on the up and up. Nothing to see here. 

I really appreciate what you do for Texas with NIL stuff, SurlyHorns, tailgates, etc. 

But that experience has absolutely nothing to do with Sluka and UNLV. Stop being such a know-it-all asshole. 

[BurntOrange&White 41842]

2 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Kinda wish this trash fire of a situation would have happened somewhere other than UNLV, could you think of the glorious meltdown that would be happening at a big-time program if something this stupid happened 

Do you even Rashada/Florida?

[TOR 6123]

3 hours ago, Gaffords said:

It's Vegas, baby!

Las VegasVegas.

[immamac 44312]

Just now, Iceman said:

we disagree: you are an idiot.

Think we are done here sir.  Thank you for the demonstration of discussions in today's society.

That's like saying you are over there with no expertise, no credentials and no real access to information saying "I did my own research" and coming to an absolutely false conclusion that is provably incorrect and saying I'm an idiot for being correct while having all the expertise, credentials and working experience to show how things are factually correct and how things actually are. 

You are actually the idiot here and me telling you that and explaining this to you over and over with real examples and real experience is showing that. Welcome to reality where your normalized bullshit idea of the world doesn't matter. 

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Do you even Rashada/Florida?

They had a legal agreement. 

[Ghost of LL 15697]

8 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

So if this is true, then UNLV is going to have a real problem attracting recruits going forward.  You break one of these agreements, and that makes you a risk.  Alabama can get by with being a risk--they're putting guys in the NFL, and that's where the real money is anyway.  But UNLV?  The guys they're attracting aren't playing in the NFL.  For almost all of them, this is the last time they'll ever see a dime for playing football.  So if signing with UNLV means you're risking not getting paid anything, the price (and the demand for up-front payment) is going to go up.  And that's really bad for UNLV's program.

If this is not true, then UNLV (or its boosters, to satisfying immamac's legalisms) have the receipts.  And that's not only going to limit Sluka's chances of transferring for fear of a tampering charge, it's also going to raise legal concerns for a breach-of-contract suit or an IRS issue.

 

Bottom Line: someone's coming out of this fucked.  And it may be both parties, really.

[immamac 44312]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I really appreciate what you do for Texas with NIL stuff, SurlyHorns, tailgates, etc. 

But that experience has absolutely nothing to do with Sluka and UNLV. Stop being such a know-it-all asshole. 

It has everything to do with it, as now seen by "their story" there's not even a fucking deal in place and there never was. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21548]

If he was getting paid and stopped showing up to practice and games, I doubt he'd continue to get paid.  The dude was told he'd make x amount and sounds like he never got paid a dime.  I don't really have a problem w/ what he's doing.  Of course, I'm not a UNLV fan or one of his teammates.  I'm sure their view differs from mine. 

[immamac 44312]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

So if this is true, then UNLV is going to have a real problem attracting recruits going forward.  You break one of these agreements, and that makes you a risk.  Alabama can get by with being a risk--they're putting guys in the NFL, and that's where the real money is anyway.  But UNLV?  The guys they're attracting aren't playing in the NFL.  For almost all of them, this is the last time they'll ever see a dime for playing football.  So if signing with UNLV means you're risking not getting paid anything, the price (and the demand for up-front payment) is going to go up.  And that's really bad for UNLV's program.

If this is not true, then UNLV (or its boosters, to satisfying immamac's legalisms) have the receipts.  And that's not only going to limit Sluka's chances of transferring for fear of a tampering charge, it's also going to raise legal concerns for a breach-of-contract suit or an IRS issue.

 

Bottom Line: someone's coming out of this fucked.  And it may be both parties, really.

This is my entire point. Thank you. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3510]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Do you even Rashada/Florida?

Yeah but that all went down during the off season, not after going 3-0 heading into October on a team with legit CFP chances...

[Iceman 2978]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's like saying you are over there with no expertise, no credentials and no real access to information saying "I did my own research" and coming to an absolutely false conclusion that is provably incorrect and saying I'm an idiot for being correct while having all the expertise, credentials and working experience to show how things are factually correct and how things actually are. 

You are actually the idiot here and me telling you that and explaining this to you over and over with real examples and real experience is showing that. Welcome to reality where your normalized bullshit idea of the world doesn't matter. 

They had a legal agreement. 

a legal agreement with a construct to  protect the school from labor issues, in which money is exchanged for being a part of the football program.

 

You aren't explaining anything that people on here do not understand.  It's the operating under the guise of sanctity and just completely random good will that always benefits a football/ basketball program that is absolutely ludicrous.

It doesn't require your admission either.  It's not even that the work is good or bad; but it's absolutely pay for play.

Edited September 25 by Iceman

[immamac 44312]

1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

If he was getting paid and stopped showing up to practice and games, I doubt he'd continue to get paid.  The dude was told he'd make x amount and sounds like he never got paid a dime.  I don't really have a problem w/ what he's doing.  Of course, I'm not a UNLV fan or one of his teammates.  I'm sure their view differs from mine. 

I think the issue here is that if you stop coming to practice and games you are removed from the team and no longer a student athlete and likely if there was an agreement it would be for a student athlete (regardless of school). That IS part of the legal framework and a protection that does exist for NIL collectives/payers. If they aren't a student athlete it can void the agreement. It just can't say where they must be enrolled or playing. 

[Fud 9724]

 

[deech 2389]

Whether he is an idiot or there is pay for play, can we all at least agree that if the story is true, the assistant coach that recruited him and promised him NIL should be fired and suspended by the NCAA?  I agree the kid is an idiot and should have only negotiated with the NIL arm for the school, but as an 19 year old kid I can at least partially understand not being as read up on NIL deals as immamac.  

immamac are you for public disclosure of all NIL deals?

[Iceman 2978]

NIL is just so nuanced that the common man cannot understand it.

[immamac 44312]

Just now, deech said:

Whether he is an idiot or there is pay for play, can we all at least agree that if the story is true, the assistant coach that recruited him and promised him NIL should be fired and suspended by the NCAA?  I agree the kid is an idiot and should have only negotiated with the NIL arm for the school, but as an 19 year old kid I can at least partially understand not being as read up on NIL deals as immamac.  

Correct. This is why it sucks. It sucks for everyone. 

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

2 minutes ago, Fud said:

 

LOL. It was probably Marion that promised him the $100k.

[DigglerontheHoof 21548]

1 minute ago, deech said:

Whether he is an idiot or there is pay for play, can we all at least agree that if the story is true, the assistant coach that recruited him and promised him NIL should be fired and suspended by the NCAA?  I agree the kid is an idiot and should have only negotiated with the NIL arm for the school, but as an 19 year old kid I can at least partially understand not being as read up on NIL deals as immamac.  

I'm not as smart as immamac but I guarantee I would've been just as clueless as a 19year old...and probably drunk, but I digress. 

[immamac 44312]

Just now, Iceman said:

NIL is just so nuanced that the common man cannot understand it.

No, it's not as underhanded and shady as you guys are making it seem and there are actually a lot of rules that protect everyone from situations exactly like this. 

That's why doing shit the way you guys are saying and defending IS THE CAUSE of shitty situations like this. 

[bad_teammate 13496]

If he was offered money he never got, then his options were to do this or to sacrifice his final year of eligibility to further the career of the coach(es) who lied to him in the first place.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he's making the right call IF he was lied to about money by UNLV.

And I'm not going to ever be mad at a college kid for not being good at contracts and agents. It's up to the institution to safeguard all that and be a mile above reproach.

[Dark Horse 2421]

28 minutes ago, horn009 said:

A car is nothing compared to throwing millions of dollars at an 18-year-old because a recruiting service said that they have really good potential. They're getting paid that kind of money without having proven anything on the field yet. 

They’re paid for their perceived value, just like your first job offer. 

['stache 22131]

If a coach went rogue and made a bs promise the school is fucked perceptionwise going forward. If true the kid has every right to bail and preserve his redshirt and make some money in his final season next year. Just a mess all around.

[immamac 44312]

8 minutes ago, deech said:

 Immamac are you for public disclosure of all NIL deals?

Generally speaking it would help a lot more than it would hurt for everyone. 

I think disclosure timing for terms, compensation etc should be delayed, but the general deliverables and confirmation for the agreement should be as soon as reasonable. 

[52-80 19377]

Call it a hunch but UNLVs starting QB (who hails from New York) has a NIL deal thats slightly different from one brokered by the college messageboard admin offering $300/semester and free margaritas from the vegas equivalent of El Arroyo. 

Im guessing the deal is a tad larger and it comes with implicit expectation of playing for the team, and not given out of charity.

Just guessing tho 

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

 

 

[immamac 44312]

9 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Call it a hunch but UNLVs starting QB (who hails from New York) has a NIL deal thats slightly different from one brokered by the college messageboard admin offering $300/semester and free margaritas from the vegas equivalent of El Arroyo. 

Im guessing the deal is a tad larger and it comes with implicit expectation of playing for the team, and not given out of charity.

Just guessing tho 

Call it a hunch but Texas One Fund may be doing deals that dwarf this one and the right way. 

Not guessing BTW.