UNLV starting QB: fuck this shit, I'm outta here (check bounced)

[markstanco 12520]

1 hour ago, chemHORN said:

He'll be in College Station visiting by next weekend.  Hell they may even put him in the game after the fans all turn on Reed next.  

Fans always think the backup's backup should be the starter. 

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

 

 

 

[Vito Andolini 9115]

3 minutes ago, sith_horn said:

Or grammar for that matter ... “I committed to UNLV based on certain representatives that were made to me,..."

That was a misquote by some media hack. The QB actually used the word “representations.”

Edited September 25 by Vito Andolini

[Blotto 23434]

24 minutes ago, immamac said:

You aren't too far off on the "real order", I will speak for the collectives I know that no verbal agreement or offer is made prior to commitment/transfer. There is talk about what athlete expectations are and if those expectations align with a potential reality and scenario at Texas. There is a lot that can happen between an Agent and the collective but not directly from the player and the collective even before they are enrolled at the university that are completely legal and everyone is doing the same thing, as close as they can to the line. 

Its strange. Playing football is a job for these highly recruited athletes. I can think of no other job where a highly desirable candidate takes his first job, or switches jobs without knowing what his salary will be. That goes for business majors, engineers, college professors, college coaches and administrators, professional athletes. There maybe variable bonuses, but the structure of their compensation is defined. But I guess college athletes simply don't care about all that, and just figure it will all work itself out.  Quinn probably just liked the campus when he signed with Texas. 

Presumably your "out" is the bolded part, but to me that's a completely meaningless distinction. And for what its worth, I'm sure Texas does make an attempt to stay within the guidelines. But the guidelines were set up to be abused, and you cant be the only team playing it straight and narrow. NIL is absolutely used as an inducement to sign top players. Players are having these conversations before committing, so yeah.....its pay for play. Everyone with a fucking brain knows what's going on, and sees how its turned college sports into a shitshow.

Edited September 25 by Blotto

[SquishMitten 10402]

There seems to be a very big disconnect between what some people think PFP means and what it legally means

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Whoever broke the deal is the asshole here.

If UNLV isn't paying him what they said they would, I'm Team Sluka.

If Sluka's just bailing because he thinks he'll get more money for it, I'm Team UNLV.

Yeah.  If they didn’t pay him, fuck them to hell.  And he’s supposed to go out there and risk a head injury etc, fuck all that noise.  
He chose to play when X was offered to him.  Take X away and he’s still supposed to go risk getting his head bashed in?  GTFO

[Lidig8r 1859]

26 minutes ago, immamac said:

Brandon Harris for Football. GM is currently only a football position, but there are folks within the AD that act in the GM capacity for womens sports as a whole and other mens sports (bball, baseball, etc) In baseball the head coach has acted as GM, I'm not sure how Schloss has it set up atm, but I'm pretty sure his GM/acting GM is Bishop

 

well fuck me sideways on a bed of sneks with Linda Cohn...

I learned something new today ... Had no idea the university had a GM for the football program.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

5 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Fans always think the backup's backup should be the starter. 

Well, sometimes they’re right.  

[immamac 42545]

4 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Its strange. Playing football is a job for these highly recruited athletes. I can think of no other job where a highly desirable candidate takes his first job, or switches jobs without knowing what his salary will be. That goes for business majors, engineers, college professors, college coaches and administrators, professional athletes. There maybe variable bonuses, but the structure of their compensation is defined. But I guess college athletes simply don't care about all that, and just figure it will all work itself out.  Quinn probably just liked the campus when he signed with Texas. 

Presumably your "out" is the bolded part, but to me that's a completely meaningless distinction. And for what its worth, I'm sure Texas does make an attempt to stay within the guidelines. But the guidelines were set up to be abused, and you cant be the only team playing it straight and narrow. NIL is absolutely used as an inducement to sign top players. Players are having these conversations before committing, so yeah.....its pay for play. Everyone with a fucking brain knows what's going on, and sees how its turned college sports into a shitshow.

yeah, they aren't getting paid to play football...

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

11 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I dont know if there are enough drugs in Vegas for anyone to have even considered the playoffs, when this kid transferred. 

 

15 minutes ago, JBJ said:

None of that was really on the plate during transfer season.  From both the perspective of the player being worth that and that UNLV has a chance to make the playoff.

Man. This kid must be really good to have taken UNLV from an afterthought that would have required drugs to even imagine in the playoffs to one of the favorites if not the favorite to make the playoff in three games. 

[Daichee Bell 2925]

 

4 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

You’re the one doing the legal gymnastics. No, it isn’t explicitly pay for play. But it clearly is pay for play. It’s a legal structure purposefully designed to obscure reality. 

If the health code prevented me from selling lemonade, but I sold cups for $5 and gave away the lemonade for free, I’m not explicitly selling lemonade. But we all know what the reality is. 

 

4 hours ago, immamac said:

Yeah the difference is when you run out of lemonade and people who bought $1 cups bitch about not getting any more lemonade. Those people bought cups and can get fucked as long as you gave them the cup and they gave you the dollar. 

If someone paid for lemonade and you ran out you must give them their lemonade or give them their money back. 

This isn't fucking hard you guys are idiots if you think the wink wink unspoken rule doesn't have barbs and risks associated with it. This guy has a real deal he signed and committed when he joined the football team at UNLV that he's backing out of due to circumstances that have nothing to do with the staff, school, team, or anything. 

[nbmishoid 942]

I’m enjoying the shitshow this season.  It’s working for Texas.  Who cares about UNLV?  
 

[Hank Kingsley 20725]

After UNLV's games began, Cromartie contacted Cottrell and director of player development Hunkie Cooper.

"They keep deferring -- 'We don't know. You have to wait,'" Bob Sluka said. "Then it was like, 'We're going to give him game checks.' So we're like, 'OK, great.' We did not ask for a single dollar [more]. At one point, we are out of pocket for him to be there, because his expenses to live there weren't even being covered."

Bob Sluka told ESPN that Marion and the agents from Equity Sports agreed to a verbal deal back in the winter, after a recruiting visit where they spent most of their time with Marion but also met with the entire coaching staff.

"We left there understanding that we were going to get a certain dollar amount for Matt to come there on the NIL deal, not a blowout number, but a reasonable, fair number," Bob Sluka said, adding that Matthew later received more than 25 NIL offers from other schools, including Big Ten and SEC teams, that were "four, five times the amount money we were willing to take from UNLV."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41438172/matthew-sluka-nil-dispute-unlv-hinges-verbal-offer

[JBJ 3649]

3 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

Man. This kid must be really good to have taken UNLV from an afterthought that would have required drugs to even imagine in the playoffs to one of the favorites if not the favorite to make the playoff in three games. 

Tbf, this is being overstated. UNLV is currently 20:1 odds to.make the playoff, so the 39th most likely team.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10150]

9 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

Whether the agent missed the big federal lawsuit, Sluka had already transferred before that ruling.  Also has the NCAA rule changed or is it still  - Can't sign NIL until enrolled... just pending lawsuit challenges?

You sign before enrolling you are at risk of an NCAA infraction if the challenge fails (don't think it will, but could)

[sith_horn 2370]

9 minutes ago, Vito Andolini said:

12 minutes ago, sith_horn said:

Or grammar for that matter ... “I committed to UNLV based on certain representatives that were made to me,..."

That was a misquote by some media hack. The QB actually used the word “representations.”

Given what we see passes for journalism these days, I suppose I should have at least suspected such. Appreciate the correction.

[immamac 42545]

Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Whether the agent missed the big federal lawsuit, Sluka had already transferred before that ruling.  Also has the NCAA rule changed or is it still  - Can't sign NIL until enrolled... just pending lawsuit challenges?

You sign before enrolling you are at risk of an NCAA infraction if the challenge fails (don't think it will, but could)

He can sign whenever he wants, he's already a student-athlete. It would just be weird for him to be doing brand promotion and stuff for UNLV when he's playing for a different team. lol

High school recruits cannot sign before they enroll. Student athletes can sign whenever the hell they want. I signed with Jared Wiley before he xferred to TCU and continued to pay him while he was there and he did an interview as a TE with TCU for the program where we talked about navigating the transfer process and playing against his old team etc. 

[Vito Andolini 9115]

It’s clear the agent Cromartie is incredibly incompetent. I feel for the Sluka family they were duped by him. It’s also reasonable to think a successful QB would have had multiple suitors, based on Matt Rhule’s comments in the offseason, so I believe he had opportunities beyond UNLV. UNLV seems to have thought they could get by without much of an investment, and it’s now going to cost them. There are no winners.

[royiv 9173]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

yeah, they aren't getting paid to play football...

It feels like a lot of semantics being thrown around on this thread, so not to pile on to that, but I think it boils down to they aren’t getting paid to play football, but they are getting paid because they do play football.

It goes back to the point that people keep trying to make of why doesn’t random EE major non-athlete get signed to a deal from a NIL collective. Welp, they don’t play football.

[Codaxx 5607]

14 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

Man. This kid must be really good to have taken UNLV from an afterthought that would have required drugs to even imagine in the playoffs to one of the favorites if not the favorite to make the playoff in three games. 

I am not sure you know what the word favorite means

Odds to make the playoffs 

• Boise State +300
• Liberty +400
• Memphis +700

Odds to win

• Boise State +25000
• Liberty +50000
• Coastal Carolina +100000
• Tulane +100000
• App State +100000
• UTSA +100000
• Memphis +100000
• Fresno State +100000
• UNLV +100000
• Miami (Ohio) +100000
• Toledo +100000
• Texas State +100000

Edited September 25 by Codaxx

[PilotsError 2283]

16 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

There seems to be a very big disconnect between what some people think PFP means and what it legally means

lol 

we all know exactly what it means, regardless of the legalese. 

[partytimesausage 27]

the people claiming nil funds arent  a play to play mechanism are crazy or purposely pretending to have the head buried in the sand.  they cant be serious with their take.   just cant be.  everybody on the planet knows what these wink wink deals are. 

[Texasborn91 901]

So it was a verbal gentleman’s agreement? They need to be held to it!!!/AGGY. 

[Vito Andolini 9115]

3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I am not sure you know what the word favorite means

UNLV appears on many lists of Group of Five playoff favorites. Here’s an example.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/group-of-five-power-rankings-memphis-climbs-after-florida-state-upset-white-hot-unlv-remains-in-top-spot/

[Beau Vine 54011]

4 hours ago, horn009 said:

Part of what made college football unique compared to the NFL was that before NIL, it seemed like the players had a genuine attachment to the programs that they played for.

[Codaxx 5607]

Just now, Vito Andolini said:

UNLV appears on many lists of Group of Five playoff favorites. Here’s an example.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/group-of-five-power-rankings-memphis-climbs-after-florida-state-upset-white-hot-unlv-remains-in-top-spot/

I gave Vegas numbers. 

[bad_teammate 13137]

Ask Pennzoil and Texaco how necessary papers are when it comes to a contract. Billions can hang in the balance on a verbal agreement.

[immamac 42545]

7 minutes ago, royiv said:

It feels like a lot of semantics being thrown around on this thread, so not to pile on to that, but I think it boils down to they aren’t getting paid to play football, but they are getting paid because they do play football.

It goes back to the point that people keep trying to make of why doesn’t random EE major non-athlete get signed to a deal from a NIL collective. Welp, they don’t play football.

Random EE majors don't have an external regulatory agency or stipulations on eligibility or enrollment for classes to do anything they want with their NIL, or getting paid to do stuff like code or create circuit designs (Pay for play in their case).

That's what is pissing me off about this. There are rules, these rules aren't getting broken by an extremely large supermajority, and especially at Texas. The rules are there to protect everyone from shit like this. 

Shit like this happens when morons are involved and think they are getting paid to play. 

[Vito Andolini 9115]

4 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I gave Vegas numbers. 

This isn’t my fight and I’m a low drama poster, but even looking at your odds, of all the G5 programs, only five  three have better odds.

Edited September 25 by Vito Andolini

[Sandman 3403]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Billions can hang in the balance on a verbal agreement

My ex-brother in law lost in court due to a verbal agreement. Granted, him having to buy a piece of shit 4-wheeler doesn't really compare to losing billions of dollars. But the pain was REAL.

[Kwix 2186]

5 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

So it was a verbal gentleman’s agreement? They need to be held to it!!!/AGGY. 

They don't need to be held to it, but shouldn't be surprised when the player walks.  

[Evil Bill Obrien 3198]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Ask Pennzoil and Texaco how necessary papers are when it comes to a contract. Billions can hang in the balance on a verbal agreement.

Possibly the biggest life lesson of this whole saga (other than don't hire a moron to represent you...) is "Get that shit in writing. Period."

[Beau Vine 54011]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

Because it is explicitly illegal to induce players you fucking moron. Jesus Christ. 

Is that a federal or state law?

[Blotto 23434]

Just now, PilotsError said:

lol 

we all know exactly what it means, regardless of the legalese. 

And that's what these schools and collectives hide behind.  Everyone knows the real score and if Texas didn't do what it has done through the efforts of the various collectives, we would have been left in the dust as a competitive program. It's the direction college sports is heading and no amount of message board agonizing is changing shit.  I just laugh at the notion that someone with an IQ over 75 can see the direction the sport has taken and actually believe its anything but "pay for play" regardless of the semantics. Obviously the public positions of the UT athletic staff and collectives will be whatever they need to be to stay within whatever loose guidelines are in place. 

[royiv 9173]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Random EE majors don't have an external regulatory agency or stipulations on eligibility or enrollment for classes to do anything they want with their NIL, or getting paid to do stuff like code or create circuit designs (Pay for play in their case).

That's what is pissing me off about this. There are rules, these rules aren't getting broken by an extremely large supermajority, and especially at Texas. The rules are there to protect everyone from shit like this. 

Shit like this happens when morons are involved and think they are getting paid to play. 

I’m not sure if you missed my point because I threw in the bit about the random EE major since it’s been brought up here, but I was agreeing that under current constructs the players aren’t being paid to play, but they’re market value is absolutely derived from their ability to play.

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

17 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I am not sure you know what the word favorite means

Odds to make the playoffs 

• Boise State +300
• Liberty +400
• Memphis +700

Odds to win

• Boise State +25000
• Liberty +50000
• Coastal Carolina +100000
• Tulane +100000
• App State +100000
• UTSA +100000
• Memphis +100000
• Fresno State +100000
• UNLV +100000
• Miami (Ohio) +100000
• Toledo +100000
• Texas State +100000

I thought it was pretty clear that I meant "one of the favorites to make the playoffs [in the G5 spot]."  Obviously the Vegas Odds you provide list them as third; others list them as first or second.  That seems like one of the favorites to me.

 

Even if they are the third highest odds - It seems incredible that they would have gone from not even imagining making the playoff to now having the third highest odds of any G5 school in only three games.

Edited September 25 by Texas Wahoo

[Fudge Nuggets 19152]

6 hours ago, immamac said:

There is nowhere in any NIL deal that says playing football is any part of the deal, because that's not what NIL is. 

Texas doesn't have these situations because they aren't broke dick shitheads who don't out signed contracts. The quid pro quo also has nothing to do with football in any of these instances. So yeah if you get 50k per appearance and have made 3 and not been paid according to contract by all means bail on the contract. That has nothing to do with your football team. 

All these dudes are “marketable” because they ball. Take away their athletic ability and none of them are getting a dime. 

[Codaxx 5607]

12 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

I thought it was pretty clear that I meant "one of the favorites to make the playoffs [in the G5 spot]."  Obviously the Vegas Odds you provide list them as third; others list them as first or second.  That seems like one of the favorites to me.

Memphis, BSU, and Liberty are higher to make it. 

UNLV are one of 10 teams at +100k after BSU and Liberty to win it. 

 

Texas is +500 (#3) to win (OSU #1 +340, Georgia #2 +360, Bama #4 +800). Based on Georgia's schedule that seems high

Edited September 25 by Codaxx

[BurntOrange&White 39690]

30 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Well, sometimes they’re right.  

I'd like to start on Michael Hawkins mom

31 minutes ago, Lidig8r said:

well fuck me sideways on a bed of sneks with Linda Cohn...

I learned something new today ... Had no idea the university had a GM for the football program.

Most major programs have a GM now.

[Beau Vine 54011]

3 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Kinda wish this trash fire of a situation would have happened somewhere other than UNLV, could you think of the glorious meltdown that would be happening at a big-time program if something this stupid happened 

 

[Zone Read 299]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Ask Pennzoil and Texaco how necessary papers are when it comes to a contract. Billions can hang in the balance on a verbal agreement.

It's been forever since I looked at this case and I have no desire to look at it again, but wasn't there a memorandum of understanding with all the terms and conditions spelled out?  I don't think it was a true verbal agreement.

[CBHorn 414]

Here is how understand NIL works using a real world example:

Back in 1998 and 1999, José Lima was a starting pitcher for the Houston Astros, winning 37 games in two seasons and was selected to the 1999 National League All-Star team. This was so called "Lima Time" rocking and Casa Olé (Fresh today, every day!) signed Lima to a deal in which he appeared in television commercials promoting the fine Mexican cuisine and ambiance offered by the Houston area restaraunt chain. In 2000, José's heat lost its spice and he had a league worst 6.65 ERA and gave up 48 enchiladas. The Astros traded him the following season. Casa Olé paid him to advertise for them based on the idea that his successful pitching would cause fans to choose Case Olé for their fine dining needs and purchase more tacos, burritos, green sauce and the like. Once he was no longer an effective pitcher for the Astros, his value to Casa Ole deteriorated like old queso. His was not paid to play even if his value was derived from his successful play.

In my mind, college sports NIL is the same. Being an athlete creates value but the contract does not require athletic performance. A specific player is valuable to local business seeking an NIL partner while a member of the local team. Once that player disassociates themselves from the local team, then value goes away.

Edited September 25 by CBHorn

[chainsaw 9838]

39 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

Edited September 25 by chainsaw

[horn009 139]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think part of the big settlement is that direct payments for playing will be legal and things will look different going forward. It will get regulated eventually one way or another. Not sure what the IRS cares, if you make money, you report it as income and pay taxes, if you don't, you're in some doo doo.

Do you really think all of these 18-year-olds are filing their taxes properly? The IRS will be showing up at a lot of these kids' doors in the near future if I had to guess. That will escalate things quicker than anything else will. 

[Beau Vine 54011]

2 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

lolz because that's not what it looked like before when he transferred from Holy Cross to UNLV ??

Are you really suggesting that money is the only reason a college kid would relocate from Woostah Mass to Vegas?

[immamac 42545]

8 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

Here is how understand NIL works using a real world example:

Back in 1998 and 1999, José Lima was a starting pitcher for the Houston Astros, winning 37 games in two seasons and was selected to the 1999 National League All-Star team. This was so called "Lima Time" rocking and Casa Olé (Fresh today, every day!) signed Lima to a deal in which he appeared in television commercials promoting the fine Mexican cuisine and ambiance offered by the Houston area restaraunt chain. In 2000, José's heat lost its spice and he had a league worst 6.65 ERA and gave up 48 enchiladas. The Astros traded him the following season. Casa Olé paid him to advertise for them based on the idea that his successful pitching would cause fans to choose Case Olé for their fine dining needs and purchase more tacos, burritos, green sauce and the like. Once he was no longer an effective pitcher for the Astros, his value to Casa Ole deteriorated like old queso. His was not paid to play even if his value was derived from his successful play.

In my mind, college sports NIL is the same. Being an athlete creates value but the contract does not require athletic performance. A specific player is valuable to local business seeking an NIL partner while a member of the local team. Once that player disassociates themselves from the local team, then value goes away.

fantastic post. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3198]

4 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

Here is how understand NIL works using a real world example:

Back in 1998 and 1999, José Lima was a starting pitcher for the Houston Astros, winning 37 games in two seasons and was selected to the 1999 National League All-Star team. This was so called "Lima Time" rocking and Casa Olé (Fresh today, every day!) signed Lima to a deal in which he appeared in television commercials promoting the fine Mexican cuisine and ambiance offered by the Houston area restaraunt chain. In 2000, José's heat lost its spice and he had a league worst 6.65 ERA and gave up 48 enchiladas. The Astros traded him the following season. Casa Olé paid him to advertise for them based on the idea that his successful pitching would cause fans to choose Case Olé for their fine dining needs and purchase more tacos, burritos, green sauce and the like. Once he was no longer an effective pitcher for the Astros, his value to Casa Ole deteriorated like old queso. His was not paid to play even if his value was derived from his successful play.

In my mind, college sports NIL is the same. Being an athlete creates value but the contract does not require athletic performance. A specific player is valuable to local business seeking an NIL partner while a member of the local team. Once that player disassociates themselves from the local team, then value goes away.

Now if you had figured out a way to explain NIL in terms of Moises Alou pissing on his hands around the same time then we would really be getting somewhere...
 

[bad_teammate 13137]

8 minutes ago, Zone Read said:

It's been forever since I looked at this case and I have no desire to look at it again, but wasn't there a memorandum of understanding with all the terms and conditions spelled out?  I don't think it was a true verbal agreement.

A lot, yes, but not nearly "all". Verbal agreements were a major component in the final outcome.

But definitely not a simple spit-shake on a 4-wheeler lol

[Evil Bill Obrien 3198]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Are you really suggesting that money is the only reason a college kid would relocate from Woostah Mass to Vegas?

Could have a lot more fun with that $100K in Vegas than you would in Woostah at least

[Hank Kingsley 20725]