Cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, etc.)

[GRHorn 105]

 

[GRHorn 105]

This from a note from Fidelity’s head of macro. 
https://institutional.fidelity.com/app/literature/item/9901337.html

It continues to be a layup trade. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Getting in and out on 5k swings is ok. Win half those and lose half.  But I’m staying in right now because it feels 100k could come really fast.  A major bank allowing their investors to have direct BTC exposure feels close - to me that’s the big one.  GS and JPM won’t even let their managers get you in grayscale right now.  

https://twitter.com/bitcoinagile/status/1366446744058363904?s=21
 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Getting in and out on 5k swings is ok. Win half those and lose half.  But I’m staying in right now because it feels 100k could come really fast.  A major bank allowing their investors to have direct BTC exposure feels close - to me that’s the big one.  GS and JPM won’t even let their managers get you in grayscale right now.  

But JPM is recommending, or perhaps not objecting, if investors wanted to put 1% of their portfolio in crypto. It's confusing if they make that comment but do not allow a client to perform the transaction. That would basically be inviting clients to withdraw money to invest elsewhere. Or maybe I just don't get it.

https://news.bitcoin.com/jpmorgan-investors-1-portfolios-bitcoin-poor-hedge/

This past weekend, bitcoin came up in by some friends that are not into bitcoin. They couldn't get past thinking that bitcoin was only a means of buying something (retail, coffee) and that their credit card worked just fine so why by bitcoin. First, I agree bitcoin is horrible for small transactions especially in-person transactions where there is no expectation of anonymity. Second, perhaps I suck at explaining the investment side of owning bitcoin because I didn't change any minds. And truthfully, I downplay crypto when talking with friends as I don't want to see anyone lose their shirt because of my advice.

The main advice I give is that someone's first purchase should only be bitcoin or maybe eth. Don't initially jump into alt coins until you have better understanding. And stay the f away if someone is telling you that you can earn 10x more with Coin X and its basically the same as bitcoin.   bitconnect.....

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nice Guy Eddie

[washparkhorn 9939]

Falling wedge pattern is bullish, no? Test at $58?

__________________________________________________________

Dumb question amnesty - we have paper gold. Do we have paper bit coins?

[The Royal We 3067]

22 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Falling wedge pattern is bullish, no? Test at $58?

__________________________________________________________

Dumb question amnesty - we have paper gold. Do we have paper bit coins?

Sort of - there's this:  https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBTC?p=GBTC

h/t to GRHorn.  I bought some of it a while back and have an open order for more if BTC pulls back again.

[washparkhorn 9939]

8 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Sort of - there's this:  https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBTC?p=GBTC

h/t to GRHorn.  I bought some of it a while back and have an open order for more if BTC pulls back again.

Thank you. Perfect.

The largest holder of GBTC makes a good case for disruptive technology, including blockchain:

Spoiler

ARK’s research suggests that the global economy has entered a period of convulsive changes, some exceptionally good and others devastating, that will shape financial markets for years to come. Thanks to seeds planted during the tech and telecom bubble more than 20 years ago, record-breaking technological changes are creating not only exponential growth opportunities but also black holes in global economies and financial markets. Staying on the right side of change will determine success and failure not only in investment portfolios but also in careers, companies, and countries.

Where are the black holes associated with technologically enabled innovation? In our view, any company not investing aggressively in one or more of five major innovation platforms and 14 technologies evolving today will lose its way. In harm’s way are companies that have spent the last 10-20 years engineering their financial results to satisfy the short-term demands of short-sighted investors. Those that have leveraged their balance sheets to buy back shares and pay dividends are at particular risk because deflation can ravage debt holders: technologically enabled innovation is deflationary. Stretching for yield, fixed income investors have enabled this behavior and, at some point, will have to pay for it.

The five innovation platforms that we believe will transform the global economy are: DNA sequencing, robotics, energy storage, artificial intelligence, and blockchain technology. These platforms involve 14 technologies including gene therapies, 3D printing, cloud computing, big data analytics, and cryptocurrencies. Importantly, they cut across economic sectors, posing problems for research efforts that are short term, siloed, and highly specialized. In our experience, most research departments in the financial world are structured in that way and have created inefficiencies to exploit as “convergences” create the new world order.

According to our research, among the siloed sectors at risk of disintermediation are energy, industrials, consumer discretionary, communications services, health care, and financial services. As autonomous transportation evolves, for example, autos, rails, and airlines are likely to capitulate to the convergence of robotics, energy storage, and artificial intelligence. Combined, they will collapse the cost structure of transportation. Traditional health care is likely to give way to the convergence of next generation DNA sequencing, artificial intelligence, and gene therapies, the combination of which should boost returns on investment significantly, creating a golden age of health care likely to rival that of the eighties and nineties. Meanwhile, traditional financial services are likely to commoditize, thanks to application programming interfaces (APIs), social platforms, and blockchain technology that will enable the convergence of business and consumer marketplaces, disintermediating the middlemen dominating today’s financial ecosystem.

The convergence between and among innovation platforms and technologies seems to be throwing economic and company forecasts for a loop, particularly in the developed world which is saddled with mature infrastructure. Broadly defined, the sectors at risk of disintermediation account for more than half of the S&P 500. Though at small bases today, in our view most of the platforms mentioned above are entering exponential growth trajectories thanks to the falling costs and increasing productivity associated with technologically enabled innovation. For example, in response to the 28% cost decline in lithium-ion batteries for every cumulative doubling in units produced globally, prices will continue to fall, “turbocharging” electric vehicle (EV) sales. According to our research,[1]EV sales will scale 20-fold globally during the next five years, from an estimated 2 million and ~2.5% of the market this year to 40 million and ~45% in 2025. If we are right, the good news is that EVs will generate exponential growth in the auto market for the first time in 100 years. The bad news is that, just as rapidly, the more expensive gas-powered cars that dominate the market today will lose almost half of their sales base. Moreover, if transportation goes autonomous, as we believe it will, the auto market will continue to shrink as the capacity utilization per car increases.

In other words, as measured by statistics born in the industrial age when the sector was nascent, auto-related GDP will drop dramatically in the years ahead as unit sales and prices suffer, all to the benefit of consumers. Not for four to five years should the exponential growth of EV sales stabilize the industry, albeit with a new cast of characters. Meanwhile, consumers stand to benefit as the cost of transportation declines. Based on our research, as autonomous vehicle networks scale during the next five years, transportation costs will drop more than 50%, from the $.70 per mile in personal cars to $0.25.

More broadly, if our forecasts for the five innovation platforms are near the mark, nominal GDP growth in the US is likely to slow from 4.1% at an annual rate during the past five years to 2-3%, regaining momentum only after new technologies and solutions gain enough critical mass to move the economic needle. Both volume growth and inflation are likely to surprise on the low side of expectations as market share shifts to the mismeasured digital world and as the “good” deflation associated with technology takes hold. We believe the winners will win in a big way but losers, particularly those that have levered balance sheets to satisfy certain stakeholders, will unwind. While risk-free interest rates are likely to remain low, credit spreads could respond dramatically as disruptive innovation – the likes of which we have not seen since the telephone, electricity, and the automobile burst on the scene in the “Roaring Twenties” – causes significant dislocations.

So, investors beware. According to our research, innovation is evolving at such a rapid pace that traditional equity and fixed income benchmarks are being populated increasingly by so-called value traps, stocks and bonds that are “cheap” for a reason. Critical to investment success will be moving to the right side of change, avoiding industries and companies in the crosshairs of “creative destruction” and embracing those creating “disruptive innovation”… and perhaps another shot at the Roaring Twenties.

https://ark-invest.com/articles/market-commentary/investors-beware/

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21142]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

But JPM is recommending, or perhaps not objecting, if investors wanted to put 1% of their portfolio in crypto. It's confusing if they make that comment but do not allow a client to perform the transaction. That would basically be inviting clients to withdraw money to invest elsewhere. Or maybe I just don't get it.

 

Yes they are having you pull money out of what they manage to invest on your own.  I’m thinking that won’t last long.  And when that next show drops, we head towards 100k.  

[ChiTownDoc 21142]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

https://twitter.com/bitcoinagile/status/1366446744058363904?s=21
 

Just more smoke.  You still can’t tell GS I want X% of what you manage for me in crypto.  

[GRHorn 105]

Also, a heads up, just for shits I bought a small amount of the Spac GSAH. It’s the Goldman Spac. There’s been a lot of rumors online that they’re targeting crypto entities. I’ve seen eToro, Gemini, and BlockFi mentioned. It’s probably bullshit, but I didn’t want to see it pop after a deal goes through and miss out. 

[BTW 370]

There many not be much appetite to discuss anything outside of Bitcoin and ETH here, but if there is, I just opened a gambling position in NuCypher (NU) over the weekend.  Does anyone have any knowledge to share on it? According to the nerds who follow this stuff, the near term price target is 200-300% from where it currently stands ($.70)

[Blotto 23487]

2 hours ago, BTW said:

There many not be much appetite to discuss anything outside of Bitcoin and ETH here, but if there is, I just opened a gambling position in NuCypher (NU) over the weekend.  Does anyone have any knowledge to share on it? According to the nerds who follow this stuff, the near term price target is 200-300% from where it currently stands ($.70)

I don't know shit about it, but found this coinbase info interesting

Average hold time of 3 days on coinbase (vs 50+ for BTC and ETH) means a lot of speculation. likely more volatility and potentially bigger gains/losses, so a good candidate for a gambling position. 

[Tailgate 3021]

Getting in and out on 5k swings is ok. Win half those and lose half.  But I’m staying in right now because it feels 100k could come really fast.  A major bank allowing their investors to have direct BTC exposure feels close - to me that’s the big one.  GS and JPM won’t even let their managers get you in grayscale right now.  

Try mentioning it to your vanguard guy.

[ChiTownDoc 21142]

17 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Try mentioning it to your vanguard guy.

They’re all just as annoying.  Go with whoever helps you out outside of investing money.  That’s where they pay for themselves and then some.  

[B00M 6413]

Coinbase is annoying AF. Recommend me a better web based app

[GRHorn 105]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:03 PM, B00M said:

Coinbase is annoying AF. Recommend me a better web based app

People seem to really like Voyager but it’s not available in Texas. If you’re outside Texas it might be a good pick for shitcoins. If you’re just talking about buying bitcoin with no limit orders or anything I just use cash app for buying dips. Smooth app, super easy, haven’t experienced any downtime. Only downside is if you buy substantial amounts and want to pull to cold storage there are withdrawal limits. But I’m just buying drops in the bucket currently. 
 

As a side note, only a few people may find this interesting but I thought this was a cool stream with the head of one of the biggest DeFi funds. He’s based out of Singapore. He’s Uber bullish on both DeFi and bitcoin so there’s something for everybody. I liked hearing his insights. One of the cohosts is CryptoCobain for those that follow Crypto Twitter. 
 

 

[GRHorn 105]

I took a screenshot of his funds investments. Sorry for it being blurry. 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

The recent up-down prices almost look to be predictable. Which creates opportunity.

But I'm also reminded of a similar pattern that we saw between 9k-13k.  Was that in 2019?. But with one of the dips to <10k, it proceed to drop to 6 or 7.  You never know when a dip turns in to a route, or when a simple increase goes to the moon.  I guess the overall lesson is that past performance does not equate to the future.

And doesn't 13k seem quaint now? 

[BearSchlong 8083]

10 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The recent up-down prices almost look to be predictable. Which creates opportunity.

But I'm also reminded of a similar pattern that we saw between 9k-13k.  Was that in 2019?. But with one of the dips to <10k, it proceed to drop to 6 or 7.  You never know when a dip turns in to a route, or when a simple increase goes to the moon.  I guess the overall lesson is that past performance does not equate to the future.

And doesn't 13k seem quaint now? 

This seems too easy.  I'm basically making $1K/day on minimal exposure just trading through typical volatility. Coin agnostic, just give me some volatility, volume, charts, candles, and a few minutes to research hourly patterns. Set limit and stop loss orders and profit from the swings. One eye on Coinbase pro while I do my actual day job.  I'm actually in coins only about 25% of the time. Low tech gambling at it's finest.

Do any of you use any advanced automated trading tools? I need to hit the googles.

BTW I'm paying Coinbase about $100/day in fees, they are basically printing money.  Am I the sucker or is there a better place to trade? How fucked am I going to be with the taxman?

I think we need a discord like the stonk guys. . .

Edited March 4, 2021 by BearSchlong

[GRHorn 105]

Cuban is suddenly big crypto advocate. 

He’s going to be on that UpOnly stream with CryptoCobain later today. 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by GRHorn

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

19 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Cuban is suddenly big crypto advocate. 

 

Sometimes Schiff comes out looking bad.  We should own both: gold (physical) and crypto.   That seems to work.

 

[gsoda3 3245]

Cuban loves his cryptos. https://markets.businessinsider.com/amp/news/mark-cubans-dallas-mavericks-will-accept-dogecoin-for-tickets-2021-3-1030151539

[Burt Macklin 19020]

WTF is happening to GBTC? It usually traded at a premium and is way below now. 

[The Royal We 3067]

I thought it always lagged BTC more than traded above or below it. I had an buy order trigger today at $41 that I had forgotten about. 
 

@Burt Macklin

Edited March 4, 2021 by The Royal We

[Dbeasy 15042]

Ok, I've watched crytocurrencies from the very beginning but never got involved. I was too busy on other stuff to spend the time to learn about them and figure out how to get wallets set up, etc.  However, now I really want to figure it out because I"m interested in NFT's and I need ETH to buy them. 

So, I've setup a Metamask account, which I guess is an alternative to Coinbase????? and I have it linked to OpenSea, which is offering the Kings of Leon as an NFT. But I don't understand how to get ETH into my Metamask wallet.  Do you guys tie into your traditional bank accounts? Metamask says they tie to a debit card. Doesn't that make you guys a little nervous, that you'll wake up one day and find your bank account raided by hackers, etc?

Any thoughts on the best way to get ETH that then can be used on OpenSea would be appreciated.

[ZB'Tejas 593]

Can't buy on Coinbase but FLOW is up 400% in the last month. Chain behind TopShots so with that continued growth and UFC and other projects coming out I would think it should do well.

[GRHorn 105]

7 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Ok, I've watched crytocurrencies from the very beginning but never got involved. I was too busy on other stuff to spend the time to learn about them and figure out how to get wallets set up, etc.  However, now I really want to figure it out because I"m interested in NFT's and I need ETH to buy them. 

So, I've setup a Metamask account, which I guess is an alternative to Coinbase????? and I have it linked to OpenSea, which is offering the Kings of Leon as an NFT. But I don't understand how to get ETH into my Metamask wallet.  Do you guys tie into your traditional bank accounts? Metamask says they tie to a debit card. Doesn't that make you guys a little nervous, that you'll wake up one day and find your bank account raided by hackers, etc?

Any thoughts on the best way to get ETH that then can be used on OpenSea would be appreciated.

I've never bought through MetaMask, but anywhere you buy is going to link to a bank account at this point. That type of info hasn't been hacked before. The hacks you hear about on the news over the years are coins being held on exchanges being stolen. That is more akin to a bank robber stealing random pallets of cash. I'd say go ahead if you really want to proceed. 

5 hours ago, ZB'Tejas said:

Can't buy on Coinbase but FLOW is up 400% in the last month. Chain behind TopShots so with that continued growth and UFC and other projects coming out I would think it should do well.

The sick part is that this could have been bought by any of us when it was opening up through a crowd sale. Its initial price was $0.10. So right now you're looking at 350x in 5 months or so. It's part of why crypto can be so enticing.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

The sick part is that this could have been bought by any of us when it was opening up through a crowd sale. Its initial price was $0.10. So right now you're looking at 350x in 5 months or so. It's part of why crypto can be so enticing.

I'm kicking myself that I was looking at both FLOW and ENJ a week or so ago because of their NFT exposure. The problem was that neither was on an exchange that I use often/ever, so it was going to be a slight headache buying them. In other words, I was lazy and missed out on some nice profit.

Whether NFT are a fad or here to stay, any crypto that has current NFT tie-ins would seem to be on the rise, or will be soon.

I don't want to go deep in the rabbit hole on NFTs when there is another thread for that, but you can't tell me that other sports leagues and entertainment aren't looking at NBA Top Shot and wondering how they can get a piece of that action. I imagine if Dapper Labs, company behind NBA Top Shot, calls the MLB or NFL, they're not waiting on hold for long.

 

[Dbeasy 15042]

Sorry, how do FLOW and ENJ factor in here? 

[Dbeasy 15042]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm kicking myself that I was looking at both FLOW and ENJ a week or so ago because of their NFT exposure. The problem was that neither was on an exchange that I use often/ever, so it was going to be a slight headache buying them. In other words, I was lazy and missed out on some nice profit.

Whether NFT are a fad or here to stay, any crypto that has current NFT tie-ins would seem to be on the rise, or will be soon.

I don't want to go deep in the rabbit hole on NFTs when there is another thread for that, but you can't tell me that other sports leagues and entertainment aren't looking at NBA Top Shot and wondering how they can get a piece of that action. I imagine if Dapper Labs, company behind NBA Top Shot, calls the MLB or NFL, they're not waiting on hold for long.

 

I believe it will be a massive market and I'm trying to figure out the best way to profit from picks and shovels.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

13 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Sorry, how do FLOW and ENJ factor in here? 

From my basic and potentially wrong info, FLOW is used with the NBA Top Shot system and ENJ is involved with NFTs with gaming.

[Acropora 856]

40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

From my basic and potentially wrong info, FLOW is used with the NBA Top Shot system and ENJ is involved with NFTs with gaming.

Thanks for the info on flow.  I linked done info on enj a couple weeks ago.  It's been good so far, even with the rest of the market going sideways.  Still think there's more to go, though the real takeoff will be if that game due next week takes off.  Jmo.  

[GRHorn 105]

Heyyyy Saquon

 

[ztejas 43411]

I'm wanting to buy ~$1k dogecoin. Was wondering if someone had a rec for where to do that. I've never bought crypto before.

[Acropora 856]

11 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm wanting to buy ~$1k dogecoin. Was wondering if someone had a rec for where to do that. I've never bought crypto before.

voyager is a pretty easy interface (online app, easy to set up ach).  I use it for altcoins and doge is on there.   They do get you on the spread but technically no fees.  coinbase is what I use for most established coins.  If you need a referral pm me and I can send one (most of the exchanges have small rewards for new customers through referrals, not a ton). 

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm wanting to buy ~$1k dogecoin. Was wondering if someone had a rec for where to do that. I've never bought crypto before.

Robinhood.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Another Mark Cuban video on crypto with Binance. I haven't watched yet but I find it interesting that Cuban has come around somewhat on crypto which he explained in his other recent video on why his views are not the same from 5+ years ago. It sounds like he's owned crypto for longer than that but was skeptical. I plan to watch later on.

 

[ztejas 43411]

1 hour ago, Acropora said:

voyager is a pretty easy interface (online app, easy to set up ach).  I use it for altcoins and doge is on there.   They do get you on the spread but technically no fees.  coinbase is what I use for most established coins.  If you need a referral pm me and I can send one (most of the exchanges have small rewards for new customers through referrals, not a ton). 

 

 

30 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Robinhood.

I'd probably be holding it for a long time and not doing much trading if any if that alters the best platform/service to use.

[bluto 4912]

Btc making a run, see if it can break thru ATH

[GRHorn 105]

9 hours ago, bluto said:

Btc making a run, see if it can break thru ATH

Up only 

Some very interesting tidbits in there. 

buy orders of $100,000 and higher on Binance - the biggest cryptocurrency exchange by volume worldwide - are reaching all-time highs.

also...

Additionally, Bloomberg reports that NYDIG, a provider of Bitcoin-related financial services, announced that it raised $200 million from investors including Stone Ridge Holdings Group, Morgan Stanley, New York Life, MassMutual and Soros Fund Management. NYDIG said Bitcoin adoption among institutions is accelerating, citing data that insurers have more than $1 billion in Bitcoin-related exposure on its platform.

 

 

[Tailgate 3021]

Still holding MARA and RIOT. Will be curious how they play out with rise of BTC. Just sold some bonds to grab more currency with (BTC and ETH). Should have my target position % soon. Feel much more comfortable with a balance in crypto. 
 

Appreciate the crypto bulls on this thread. My confidence level couldn’t be higher for almost any position I own. Even with the wild swings...it has enormous potential.

[GRHorn 105]

50 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

Still holding MARA and RIOT. Will be curious how they play out with rise of BTC. Just sold some bonds to grab more currency with (BTC and ETH). Should have my target position % soon. Feel much more comfortable with a balance in crypto. 
 

Appreciate the crypto bulls on this thread. My confidence level couldn’t be higher for almost any position I own. Even with the wild swings...it has enormous potential.

Still hold Riot, Si, And Mstr. They’re behaving appropriately now. Might see one more dip but excited for the next leg up. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Y'all convinced me to put a little RIOT in my IRA.  Not enough to hurt if plummets but also not life changing if it skyrockets.

I do want more direct exposure in my retirement fund to crypto. I was thinking of taking a 401k loan (not huge), buying some crypto, and then paying back the loan via my paycheck over the next 12 months. Obviously I don't transfer the tax advantage over to crypto. I also lose any stock gains as I repay back the loan plus interest. But if crypto outgains the s&p500, I come out ahead.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Sounds exactly like something I would do.  I'm depending on the S&P to retire, but trading crypto heavily.

[GRHorn 105]

One of Norway's largest companies going in on Bitcoin. For the enthusiasts here, there's not a ton of new insights, but it's well written and a good reminder that this is a global phenomenon. If the US tries to "ban Bitcoin" then we will be unnecessarily taking a back seat to innovation produced elsewhere.

https://www.seetee.io/static/shareholder_letter-6ae7e85717c28831bf1c0eca1d632722.pdf

 

[Dbeasy 15042]

Wel I’ve officially joined the crypto crowd. I want to buy NFT’s and need crypto to do it. I’m in baby!

[henrygandorf 29189]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:45 AM, GRHorn said:

Still hold Riot, Si, And Mstr. They’re behaving appropriately now. Might see one more dip but excited for the next leg up. 

i've been tracking riot and a few others.  riot has been the best mirror of what's going on with btc, and at its price point, has had better % yields (ever since btc jumped over 40k).  it's tricky and requires some timing guesses, considering one trades on market hours and the other is 24/7.

wondering if we'll see another dip at all.

[bluto 4912]

Totally talking out of my ass but guessing we see new ATH in next week roughly then resettle at a higher floor around 50. Seems like that’s how it’s worked in general

[GRHorn 105]

10 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Wel I’ve officially joined the crypto crowd. I want to buy NFT’s and need crypto to do it. I’m in baby!

Welcome aboard! We’re all gonna make it. 

10 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i've been tracking riot and a few others.  riot has been the best mirror of what's going on with btc, and at its price point, has had better % yields (ever since btc jumped over 40k).  it's tricky and requires some timing guesses, considering one trades on market hours and the other is 24/7.

wondering if we'll see another dip at all.

As we know BTC is tough to time, but I think we’ll see one more dip to 51-52k and then we go for the next leg.  I think a good strategy would be to buy  about half the amount you’re targeting now, leaving the other half for a buy on the possible dip. If it doesn’t dip at all at least you got to wet your beak a little bit. 

[tbone_ 14109]

2 questions for you guys that’s I’m sure have come up before in this thread so sorry about that...

1. Where’s the best place for a noob to get a tutorial(s) on how it all works? I Know just enough to be dangerous and want to change that.

2. In betting on crypto, are we trying to figure out which one(s) will survive and be fully adopted when crypto takes over? Ie are we trying to bet on which one of the dozens or so of initial auto manufacturers will become the big 3? Or is it expected to be a different economic theory where multiples can survive for different reasons?