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Cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, etc.)

surlybevo

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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6 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

2 questions for you guys that’s I’m sure have come up before in this thread so sorry about that...

1. Where’s the best place for a noob to get a tutorial(s) on how it all works? I Know just enough to be dangerous and want to change that.

2. In betting on crypto, are we trying to figure out which one(s) will survive and be fully adopted when crypto takes over? Ie are we trying to bet on which one of the dozens or so of initial auto manufacturers will become the big 3? Or is it expected to be a different economic theory where multiples can survive for different reasons?

1- How what works? Blockchains? Or just how to buy stuff?

2- I would put things in a couple buckets.

There will be a digital global hard currency. For now bitcoin is that and is ahead by miles. If you put any money in crypto you have to start there.

Then there is the ethereum/defi/nft ecosystem. It involves a lot of shitcoins and can be overwhelming honestly. 

If you're new to crypto I would suggest splitting between the two. Say 75/25 btc/eth. That is until you take the next step of buying shitcoins if you dare, but that is high risk even for crypto.

That's the simplest way to break it down as it stands today.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19038

Posted
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2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

1- How what works? Blockchains? Or just how to buy stuff?

2- I would put things in a couple buckets.

There will be a digital global hard currency. For now bitcoin is that and is ahead by miles. If you put any money in crypto you have to start there.

Then there is the ethereum/defi/nft ecosystem. It involves a lot of shitcoins and can be overwhelming honestly. 

If you're new to crypto I would suggest splitting between the two. Say 75/25 btc/eth. That is until you take the next step of buying shitcoins if you dare, but that is high risk even for crypto.

That's the simplest way to break it down as it stands today.

This is what I did back in December, and I think it’s probably the way to go. 
 

Do you have any thoughts on the transaction lag and high gas fees for Ethereum? I like what I read about Ethereum 2.0, but I don’t think they’ll be able to transition fast enough. It’s starting to seem more and more possible to me that a coin like ADA or Polkadot could overtake ETH in the smart contract/defi space. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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44 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is what I did back in December, and I think it’s probably the way to go. 
 

Do you have any thoughts on the transaction lag and high gas fees for Ethereum? I like what I read about Ethereum 2.0, but I don’t think they’ll be able to transition fast enough. It’s starting to seem more and more possible to me that a coin like ADA or Polkadot could overtake ETH in the smart contract/defi space. 

I know way more about the bitcoin ecosystem vs ethereum, but it reminds me of summer 2017 when btc was having scaling issues and all the fights/forks that went along with that. The miners are unhappy with the proposed switch to proof of stake consensus, which is another issue. So there's a lot of hoops to jump through. I don't know enough about all the technical aspects of things, but it feels like Eth still has so much momentum behind it that they will be given enough time by the market to figure out scaling before there's a mass jump away from it. People want to see it work.

One thing I do feel pretty comfortable saying, is that ADA is pretty universally regarded as a trash coin by serious people in the crypto community. If you're looking for an eth killer bet, go with DOT or SOL or even BNB because of the Binance Side Chain.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13519

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One strategy for alt coins is a shot gun approach and buy several coins in a category that you're interested or believe there is a future. This helps to improve the chances of a 10x (or greater) return in any one coin. You can go all-in with one alt coin but I find that to be a higher risk. Even the best project/coin can ultimately fail.

 

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tbone_

tbone_ 14142

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1- How what works? Blockchains? Or just how to buy stuff?
2- I would put things in a couple buckets.
There will be a digital global hard currency. For now bitcoin is that and is ahead by miles. If you put any money in crypto you have to start there.
Then there is the ethereum/defi/nft ecosystem. It involves a lot of shitcoins and can be overwhelming honestly. 
If you're new to crypto I would suggest splitting between the two. Say 75/25 btc/eth. That is until you take the next step of buying shitcoins if you dare, but that is high risk even for crypto.
That's the simplest way to break it down as it stands today.

Thanks. 1 - both really.
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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Also, why the disdain for ADA by the smarts?

It’s seen as an overhyped blockchain that is not being worked on by many good projects and was started by disgruntled Eth cofounder who has a poor reputation.  

From a mostly Bitcoin standpoint this site has some good resources in the how it works section. It can be a bit like drinking from the firehose. 
 

https://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information/getting-started.html

Andreas has a lot of good talks on Bitcoin. This is a good one from a few years back.

This book is a good collection of his talks that resonated with me early on. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Money-Andreas-M-Antonopoulos/dp/1537000454

 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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1 hour ago, tbone_ said:


Thanks. 1 - both really.

I forgot part. If you want to buy multiple cryptos, the easiest way is probably still Coinbase. If you want to buy just small amounts of BTC quickly and easily as you start out on your phone then I would choose the CashApp. Hope this info helps. 

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bluto

bluto 4935

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I forgot part. If you want to buy multiple cryptos, the easiest way is probably still Coinbase. If you want to buy just small amounts of BTC quickly and easily as you start out on your phone then I would choose the CashApp. Hope this info helps. 

Careful with Coinbase though, their transaction fees are stupid.
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nycHorn

nycHorn 3038

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Does anyone have an opinion on Telcoin? This is the last shitcoin holdover (not named BTC or ETH) from my 2016-2017 buying spree. I have a few hundred thousand coins and it’s languished in value as low as $20 when shit was bad.
But recently it’s popped and is worth about 2 grand. I dumped it in a software wallet Eidoo as a test a long time ago and it takes ETH to move it out.
Just curious if anyone knows the coin or has an opinion.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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40 minutes ago, nycHorn said:

Does anyone have an opinion on Telcoin? This is the last shitcoin holdover (not named BTC or ETH) from my 2016-2017 buying spree. I have a few hundred thousand coins and it’s languished in value as low as $20 when shit was bad.
But recently it’s popped and is worth about 2 grand. I dumped it in a software wallet Eidoo as a test a long time ago and it takes ETH to move it out.
Just curious if anyone knows the coin or has an opinion.

So it’s up 100x off the lows? I’d sell it for the roughly 1 Eth. I’ve never heard of it though. 

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nycHorn

nycHorn 3038

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So it’s up 100x off the lows? I’d sell it for the roughly 1 Eth. I’ve never heard of it though. 

Yeah looks like the last 3 months it’s up over 1000%.
It takes ETH to move it out of the wallet so I was content to let it sit there since it would cost more to move out than the value of it. But now since it’s popping I don’t know if it’s market hype or something behind it.
I agree, if I could move it out, sell it and get more ETH then I’d do that.
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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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On 3/11/2021 at 8:04 AM, tbone_ said:

2. In betting on crypto, are we trying to figure out which one(s) will survive and be fully adopted when crypto takes over? Ie are we trying to bet on which one of the dozens or so of initial auto manufacturers will become the big 3? Or is it expected to be a different economic theory where multiples can survive for different reasons?

 

On 3/11/2021 at 8:20 AM, GRHorn said:

2- I would put things in a couple buckets.

There will be a digital global hard currency. For now bitcoin is that and is ahead by miles. ...

So I have a couple of thoughts on tbone_'s first question under section 2.  Governments are trying to design/build their own (ie. central bank owned/controlled) digital currencies.  Search for "CBDC" and you will find a ton of info about it (I've also posted a lot about it on my pmbug site).  I don't think they will ever allow a decentralized currency to be fully realized.  They don't like competition.

I was always skeptical about the promise of bitcoin.  I still think a system dependent upon internet access and an electrical grid is fundamentally flawed in SHTF scenarios.  However, I've come around to accept that Bitcoin is emerging as an asset class with broad market acceptance. 

It remains to be seen who will win the fight should some non-Bitcoin crypto ever seriously make inroads towards a fully fledged ecommerce and investment platform to challenge sovereign currencies.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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35 minutes ago, bernorange said:

 

So I have a couple of thoughts on tbone_'s first question under section 2.  Governments are trying to design/build their own (ie. central bank owned/controlled) digital currencies.  Search for "CBDC" and you will find a ton of info about it (I've also posted a lot about it on my pmbug site).  I don't think they will ever allow a decentralized currency to be fully realized.  They don't like competition.

I was always skeptical about the promise of bitcoin.  I still think a system dependent upon internet access and an electrical grid is fundamentally flawed in SHTF scenarios.  However, I've come around to accept that Bitcoin is emerging as an asset class with broad market acceptance. 

It remains to be seen who will win the fight should some non-Bitcoin crypto ever seriously make inroads towards a fully fledged ecommerce and investment platform to challenge sovereign currencies.

what do you mean by "fully realized"?

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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37 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

what do you mean by "fully realized"?

- technologically mature - even olds can figure it out (accessible to the masses)

- widespread adoption - (like VISA, accepted everywhere you want to be)

- 800lb gorilla status - market cap so big nations won't fuck with it

probably a few other points I'm leaving out, but essentially I mean able to function as a global currency

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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3 minutes ago, bernorange said:

- technologically mature - even olds can figure it out (accessible to the masses)

- widespread adoption - (like VISA, accepted everywhere you want to be)

- 800lb gorilla status - market cap so big nations won't fuck with it

probably a few other points I'm leaving out, but essentially I mean able to function as a global currency

ok. i agree that it will be a fight. i think the usgov will obviously try to eliminate fiat on and off ramps from bitcoin. but with vpns etc people will still be able to acquire it and i do not see the political will to enforce confiscation of it a la gold in the 1930s.

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GRHorn

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11 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Confiscation won't be required.  Closing convertability ramps (the more countries that join participate, the more effective it will be) and enforcing legal tender laws will be enough to neuter/castrate the crypto market(s).

 

As the technology evolves and the innovation continues and the network proves its superiority over the current system, fewer people around the world will want to cut themselves off from it. Then at that point, does the US cut itself and its citizens off from the network that others are utilizing?

I’m not sure how it plays out, but the above is a possibility. 
 

also, help me out with the legal tender laws? You mean governments would say you can’t spend it on goods? Right now it’s mostly hoarded like gold. 

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GRHorn

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17 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

If the reserve currency status of the USD was at stake? Yes, without a doubt. Wars have been fought over less. 

when will officials think the reserve status of the usd is at stake due to btc? gold's market cap is 10x btc and no one is claiming a gold standard is imminent. there will be bigger threats to usd before then.

who knows, by the time we get there, embracing btc might be one of the better options we're presented with?

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BearSchlong

BearSchlong 8108

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If the government moves to outlaw cryptocurrency markets, we will have much larger fish to fry. By the time it actually passed into law we would have converted all assets to guns and ammo.

Not gonna happen. That would mean implementation of "the great firewall" like in China.

Its money the government can't fuck with.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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6 hours ago, bernorange said:

 

So I have a couple of thoughts on tbone_'s first question under section 2.  Governments are trying to design/build their own (ie. central bank owned/controlled) digital currencies.  Search for "CBDC" and you will find a ton of info about it (I've also posted a lot about it on my pmbug site).  I don't think they will ever allow a decentralized currency to be fully realized.  They don't like competition.

I was always skeptical about the promise of bitcoin.  I still think a system dependent upon internet access and an electrical grid is fundamentally flawed in SHTF scenarios.  However, I've come around to accept that Bitcoin is emerging as an asset class with broad market acceptance. 

It remains to be seen who will win the fight should some non-Bitcoin crypto ever seriously make inroads towards a fully fledged ecommerce and investment platform to challenge sovereign currencies.

To circle back to this, I don’t see CBDCs as direct BTC competitors, at least intially. We already have mostly digital money. Bitcoin isn’t popular solely because it’s digital. 
 

CBDCs can and will be printed. And airdropped. 
CBDCs can and will be censored. 
CBDCs can and will be surveilled to the max. 

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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16 hours ago, GRHorn said:

... also, help me out with the legal tender laws? You mean governments would say you can’t spend it on goods? ...

No.  They create an economic impediment to utilizing anything else for commerce.

Quote

...
Historically, legal tender laws have been used by governments to force their citizens to accept debased and devalued currency. Gresham's Law describes this phenomenon, which can be summed up in one phrase: bad money drives out good money. An emperor, a king, or a dictator might mint coins with half an ounce of gold and force merchants, under pain of death, to accept them as though they contained one ounce of gold. Each ounce of the king's gold could now be minted into two coins instead of one, so the king now had twice as much ``money'' to spend on building castles and raising armies. As these legally overvalued coins circulated, the coins containing the full ounce of gold would be pulled out of circulation and hoarded. We saw this same phenomenon happen in the mid-1960s when the U.S. government began to mint subsidiary coinage out of copper and nickel rather than silver. The copper and nickel coins were legally overvalued, the silver coins undervalued in relation, and silver coins vanished from circulation.
...

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2011-03-15/html/CREC-2011-03-15-pt1-PgE483-3.htm

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13519

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(I know this isn’t a technical or mining thread but the following does impact the value of ETH.)

Read a new item about ETH. Eth has always been unfavorably compared to btc in that btc has a built-in scarcity via a max supply. The famous 21m bitcoin supply. Eth has no such limit and will grow forever, with current coding.

With an upcoming upgrade, eth will change that some. Each transaction will have a dynamic base fee charged to the transaction sender. The dynamic aspect is based on network congestion. This base fee will be destroyed. Every transaction will lower the circulating supply if just by a little bit. FYI, this fee currently goes to miners, who are not happy with this change.

transactions that need immediate processing can add a tip in addition to the base fee. The tip will be rewarded to the miner like the overall fee is today.

this change is scheduled for July which means look for it in November.

 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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24 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

(I know this isn’t a technical or mining thread but the following does impact the value of ETH.)

Read a new item about ETH. Eth has always been unfavorably compared to btc in that btc has a built-in scarcity via a max supply. The famous 21m bitcoin supply. Eth has no such limit and will grow forever, with current coding.

With an upcoming upgrade, eth will change that some. Each transaction will have a dynamic base fee charged to the transaction sender. The dynamic aspect is based on network congestion. This base fee will be destroyed. Every transaction will lower the circulating supply if just by a little bit. FYI, this fee currently goes to miners, who are not happy with this change.

transactions that need immediate processing can add a tip in addition to the base fee. The tip will be rewarded to the miner like the overall fee is today.

this change is scheduled for July which means look for it in November.

 

Yeah I’ve heard of this, but I’m not sure of the balance between token burns via transactions and token issuance to stakers in proof of stake system. 
 

Like I said before Eth is trying to pull off a couple of massive tasks at once. Changing the consensus system and significant scaling improvements. It seems like the market is hedging against them being unsuccessful with these other chains pumping. Will be interesting to follow. 

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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Just now, GRHorn said:

But how does that impact people hoarding it or transacting in a peer to peer manner?

It will have the same barriers to widespread adoption that gold, silver and every other asset class does.  Merchants might be willing to set up payment options for it, but the public would rather just use dollars.  If you own a bit of both, you are going to spend the one that is worth less and/or devaluing faster.  On top of that, you have the whole capital gains tax issue to deal with if transactions leave a paper trail. 

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