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RIP Pete Rose

Pimphand

By Pimphand
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Helobious

Helobious 9460

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Just now, Macanudo said:

Pete Rose is not "arguably the greatest baseball player" of all time.  He was a very, very good player but a stat chaser.  If he hadn't been the Reds manager from 84-86, would he have broken Cobb's record?  And Cobb set the original record in 2700 fewer plate appearances, 2600 fewer ABs and 500 fewer games.  

Someone probably would have signed him for the publicity and ticket sales and he was still a decent hitter in 1985. But WAR wise he was replacement player at best for last 8 years of his career and an outright liability in 4 of those. 

I think he was talking about Barry Bonds

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15039

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1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

If anyone watched the Pete Rose doc on HBO, after episode 1, you're like "loved the player, but not a great guy."  After episodes 2, 3 and 4, you're like "this guy was a huge a piece of shit and is still a huge piece of shit."  And I 100% believe he bet against the Reds.  And even if he didn't, betting on them to win is bad enough.  As a player, betting on your team to win would eventually be forgivable.  As a manager, absolutely unforgiveable.  

 

Or in the ladies room with the alternates.

The other interesting item from that documentary was that the whole “hustle” thing wasn’t a bit. His brain was truly wired that way, right or wrong. It makes sense when you see that he was fundamentally an addict. 

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achooloco

achooloco 1067

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2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

As a player, betting on your team to win would eventually be forgivable.  As a manager, absolutely unforgiveable.

Wait, what am I missing here? Honestly asking cause it’s been a long ass few weeks and work stress sucks but not seeing the distinction between the player or coach. Aren’t both in a way always “betting” on their team to win by playing for their team?

Side note, not forgiving Pete Rose, but I only know he bet on his games, not any of the nitty gritty details. 

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Goodman

Goodman 3273

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18 hours ago, 'stache said:

RIP. I'm pretty indifferent about the HOF. If they let him in posthumously I think it's obviously well deserved. If not, he broke a pretty important rule and I think the decision is justified. I always had the sense that the gambling thing was even more important at the time because of the mob's monopoly on gambling in most major cities. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54203

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12 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Wait, what am I missing here? Honestly asking cause it’s been a long ass few weeks and work stress sucks but not seeing the distinction between the player or coach. Aren’t both in a way always “betting” on their team to win by playing for their team?

Side note, not forgiving Pete Rose, but I only know he bet on his games, not any of the nitty gritty details. 

The player doesn't manage the bullpen, for one.

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'stache

'stache 21788

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The only advantage you get by betting on your own team is if you intentionally lose or shave points. I find it implausible after he finally admitted to betting on games he's managing that it was for his team to win. He had to have been betting against them and tinkering just enough to ensure he wins the bets. 

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4752

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20 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Wait, what am I missing here? Honestly asking cause it’s been a long ass few weeks and work stress sucks but not seeing the distinction between the player or coach. Aren’t both in a way always “betting” on their team to win by playing for their team?

Side note, not forgiving Pete Rose, but I only know he bet on his games, not any of the nitty gritty details. 

A player who bets on his team is just going to play hard.

A manager could make numerous decisions that help his team in the short term (that game) but hurt his team and players in the long term.  Pitching guys on short rest, playing guys when they need a day off, using up 3 games worth of bullpen to win a game.  Basically treating the one game he has money on as if it is a must win game off an NCAA regional.  

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Hate

Hate 20106

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17 hours ago, Atlas said:

Because if you asked any fanbase or ownership if they would take that punishment for a title, I think they would all agree.  I could be wrong, but outside of two or three, I doubt it.  A $25m fine is a joke after winning a title for any baseball team.  GM/Manager?  Astros seem fine?  Draft picks? Astros seem fine.

What’s a joke is that the Astros were the only team punished when there is a report on the commissioner’s desk that shows at least the Yankees and Red Sox were doing the same things only using a different system. 
 

RIP Pete Rose…a staple of my sports youth, but a world class prick.

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Hate

Hate 20106

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If Pete Rose was in debt to his bookies, it’s very plausible they forced him to throw games. He should have been banned and should remain banned. Can you really take his word that he only bet on them to win?

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

A player who bets on his team is just going to play hard.

A manager could make numerous decisions that help his team in the short term (that game) but hurt his team and players in the long term.  Pitching guys on short rest, playing guys when they need a day off, using up 3 games worth of bullpen to win a game.  Basically treating the one game he has money on as if it is a must win game off an NCAA regional.  

Additionally, games he didn't bet on were a huge tell to his bookie.  

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17431

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4 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Additionally, games he didn't bet on were a huge tell to his bookie.  

Correct.  1. He’s likely not betting on his team if Doc Gooden or Mike Scott were on the mound.  In fact he may be more willing to sit guys or save guys. 
2.  Hypothetical.  Reds are down 8-3 in the 6th.  Opponent has two risp.  Does he bring in a different reliever on just say. “Screw it I’ll save him for tomorrow.”

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achooloco

achooloco 1067

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19 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

A player who bets on his team is just going to play hard.

A manager could make numerous decisions that help his team in the short term (that game) but hurt his team and players in the long term.  Pitching guys on short rest, playing guys when they need a day off, using up 3 games worth of bullpen to win a game.  Basically treating the one game he has money on as if it is a must win game off an NCAA regional.  

 

19 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

The player doesn't manage the bullpen, for one.

Ah, gotcha. Hadn’t considered the bullpen and those nuances. Thanks for the clarifications. 

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