Wyoming forfeits Volleyball matchup with San Jose State

[Iceman 2692]

Wyoming becomes third school to cancel game against women’s volleyball team with transgender player

 

By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Tuesday, October 1, 2024

Another women’s collegiate volleyball team has forfeited its game against San Jose State University, a team with a transgender athlete, putting pressure on the NCAA to bar biological males from female sports.

The University of Wyoming said Tuesday evening that its women’s volleyball team would take the loss rather than play San Jose State and standout redshirt-senior Blaire Fleming, identified as a male-to-female transgender student.

“After a lengthy discussion, the University of Wyoming will not play its scheduled conference match against San Jose State University in the UniWyo Sports Complex on Saturday, Oct. 5,” said Wyoming spokesperson Chad Baldwin in a statement. “Per Mountain West Conference policy, the conference will record the match as a forfeit and a loss for Wyoming.”

Wyoming became the third university in the Mountain West, an NCAA Division I conference, to withdraw from its game against the undefeated Spartans.

Southeast Utah and Boise State already had refused to play San Jose State.

None of the schools has given an explanation for refusing to play, but Fleming’s participation on the San Jose squad has been hotly debated since Reduxx broke the story in April.

Those cheering the university’s decision included Wyoming Gov. Mark Gordon, who said he was in “full support of the decision by @wyoathletics to forego playing its volleyball match against San Jose State.

“It’s important we stand for integrity and fairness in female athletics,” the Republican governor wrote on X.

The decision came after Republican state Sen. Cheri Steinmetz circulated a letter among state legislators urging University of Wyoming President Ed Seidel and Athletic Director Tom Burman to forfeit the scheduled match.

“We assure you; the majority of our constituents do not want the integrity of Women’s Athletics to be decimated by the participation of males who overall have superior physical strength and abilities to women,” said the Oct. 1 letter. “We the undersigned Legislators urge you to cancel this match and reconsider your policies regarding DEI and DEI in Women’s Athletics at UW.”

San Jose State has not commented publicly on Fleming, who transferred to the California school in 2022 after playing at Coastal Carolina University in South Carolina.

Fleming has the second-most kills and points on the 9-0 team, trailing only redshirt sophomore Nayeli Ti’a.

But last week, Fleming’s teammate Brooke Slusser joined a lawsuit against the NCAA challenging its policy allowing male-born players to compete in female sports based on gender identity.

Idaho, Utah and Wyoming are among the 25 states that have passed measures barring biological males from competing based on gender identity in female scholastic sports.

San Jose State’s next match is Wednesday against Colorado State University in Fort Collins, which is unlikely to forfeit, given that Democratic Gov. Jared Polis signed a bill last year making Colorado a “transgender sanctuary” state.

[Rex Kramer 1332]

It is so ridiculous this is an issue. And I was told this wasn’t an issue. A fabricated deal. Glad that 25 (26 I thought) states have barred males from participating in women’s sports. Glad my daughters and I live in Texas. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

I don't know enough to say whether this player should be in the match or not but this only the University of Wyoming trying to make a political point.

If one school is questioning the eligibility of any player from another school, then it's up to the conference or the NCAA to decide eligibility. But you still play the game under protest. Then if the conference/NCAA rules in your favor, you receive the win.

Personally I don't think Wyoming should received a forfeit loss, they should be disqualified from the entire conference season. You don't want to play in the conference, then the conference should honor their wishes.

Edited October 2 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Incredulity 11650]

44 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Southeast Utah and Boise State already had refused to play San Jose State

Wyoming became the third university in the Mountain West, an NCAA Division I conference

 

 

4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

University of Wyoming trying to make a political point.

Personally I don't think Wyoming should received a forfeit loss, they should be disqualified from the entire conference season

That's not going to be tenable.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

BTW, it's always important to remember that the Washington Times (author of this story) is owned by a cult. 

[Incredulity 11650]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

BTW, it's always important to remember that the Washington Times (author of this story) is owned by a cult. 

Is there anything in that article that doesn't appear to be simply factual?

or are you asserting the forfeits didn't actually happen?

[Rex Kramer 1332]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't know enough to say whether this player should be in the match or not but this only the University of Wyoming trying to make a political point.

If one school is questioning the eligibility of any player from another school, then it's up to the conference or the NCAA to decide eligibility. But you still play the game under protest. Then if the conference/NCAA rules in your favor, you receive the win.

Personally I don't think Wyoming should received a forfeit loss, they should be disqualified from the entire conference season. You don't want to play in the conference, then the conference should honor their wishes.

[DaggerHorns 3082]

[Rex Kramer 1332]

@DahobbsYou mad bro?

[immamac 42835]

All of the sudden everyone gives a shit about this? No one gives a shit about this. 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

It says on their website(SJSU athletics) that this player is a redshirt senior who has played in the past. But only now it is an issue?

 

Culture wars, baby.

Edited October 2 by Pam Cummings

[Rex Kramer 1332]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

All of the sudden everyone gives a shit about this? No one gives a shit about this. 

I don’t really, because such a situation will never affect my athlete daughters, but to suggest it’s not newsworthy is definitely a take. Having a poster, without any comment, neg my opinion that 90%+ of the country agrees with, is indicative of a Cunts Run Amok board. 

[Dahobbs 17525]

18 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It is so ridiculous this is an issue. And I was told this wasn’t an issue. A fabricated deal. Glad that 25 (26 I thought) states have barred males from participating in women’s sports. Glad my daughters and I live in Texas. 

Yep. Glad your daughters don't have access to necessary medical care so that you can be protected from an issue that has a .0001% of affecting your life or the life of your family in any meaningful way. Total win by you. Oh, and you get to demonize some poor college student for shits and grins too. Your children should be proud. 

[Rex Kramer 1332]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Yep. Glad your daughters don't have access to necessary medical care so that you can be protected from an issue that has a .0001% of affecting your life or the life of your family in any meaningful way. Total win by you. Oh, and you get to demonize some poor college student for shits and grins too. Your children should be proud. 

Staying on topic, it’s a total win for them, and I’m not demonizing anyone. 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t really, because such a situation will never affect my athlete daughters, but to suggest it’s not newsworthy is definitely a take. Having a poster, without any comment, neg my opinion that 90%+ of the country agrees with, is indicative of a Cunts Run Amok board. 

You're so persecuted. I hope things turn around for you.

[Foosters 17828]

27 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It is so ridiculous this is an issue. And I was told this wasn’t an issue. A fabricated deal. Glad that 25 (26 I thought) states have barred males from participating in women’s sports. Glad my daughters and I live in Texas. 

Imagine raising daughters and thinking that Texas protects them. LMAO 

[troph 24781]

I'm 49 and a late transitioner and I fit squarely within female athletics parameters, from my hormone levels and physical strength, all the way down to my red blood cell count, red blood cell size, hemoglobin concentrations which are down the middle female range (some folks claim O2 carrying capacity is a reason why trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete). there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

[Willfully Horn 8001]

I remember getting a text from a buddy, drunk off his ass, and outraged at  a similar dynamic during the Olympics. Turns out, lots of folks were yelling about her sex parts. Later, I read the Olympic committee in charge of determining eligibility had issued a statement that the athlete was a woman.

She deserved better. 

Edited October 2 by Willfully Horn

[gsoda3 3245]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

I'm 49 and a late transitioner and I fit squarely within female athletics parameters, from my hormone levels and physical strength, all the way down to my red blood cell count, red blood cell size, hemoglobin concentrations which are down the middle female range (some folks claim O2 carrying capacity is a reason why trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete). there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

You can't completely handicap your way to being the female version of you.  For instance, did you get shorter? 

[Rex Kramer 1332]

11 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

You're so persecuted. I hope things turn around for you.

I’m not at all persecuted. I responded to an article posted by another. 

7 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Imagine raising daughters and thinking that Texas protects them. LMAO 

In this regard, it does. That is all I’m commenting on. You and Dahobbs are working really hard to shift this. 

7 minutes ago, troph said:

I'm 49 and a late transitioner and I fit squarely within female athletics parameters, from my hormone levels and physical strength, all the way down to my red blood cell count, red blood cell size, hemoglobin concentrations which are down the middle female range (some folks claim O2 carrying capacity is a reason why trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete). there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

I’m happy to hear you mention that on Lia and would be interested in your thoughts overall on what to do. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21872]

3 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You can't completely handicap your way to being the female version of you.  For instance, did you get shorter? 

Fleming isn’t the tallest player on the roster

[troph 24781]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You can't completely handicap your way to being the female version of you.  For instance, did you get shorter? 

wait, now being below a certain height is a prerequisite for admission into women's athletic competition? I'm not the tallest woman athlete, not even close, ergo I'm within female athlete range. just because I would be shorter if I was born in alignment with my gender is irrelevant. try again.

[Js1 85275]

28 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It says on their website(SJSU athletics) that this player is a redshirt senior who has played in the past. But only now it is an issue?

 

Culture wars, baby.

Election year, baby! 

[troph 24781]

7 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I’m not at all persecuted. I responded to an article posted by another. 

In this regard, it does. That is all I’m commenting on. You and Dahobbs are working really hard to shift this. 

I’m happy to hear you mention that on Lia and would be interested in your thoughts overall on what to do. 

it takes more than 1 year to fully transition. I'm 10 years in. we have to start with one of the following: either you (1) transitioned before puberty so that you only had one puberty, or (2) your transition has to be long enough to actually be effective. There is no way an adult person can transition effectively in 12 months. It's not possible.

[0xdeadbeef 1645]

22 minutes ago, troph said:

I'm 49 and a late transitioner and I fit squarely within female athletics parameters, from my hormone levels and physical strength, all the way down to my red blood cell count, red blood cell size, hemoglobin concentrations which are down the middle female range (some folks claim O2 carrying capacity is a reason why trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete). there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

Did you go through puberty as a male? 

[aggie08 21482]

33 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

neg my opinion that 90%+ of the country agrees with

90%+ huh? You are so incredibly full of shit. We're never going to get anywhere close to that level of agreement on this in this country.

I agree that there are uncomfortable issues with biological men competing in women's sports that need to be addressed in a respectful manner. But I also think that these athletes will continue to be a rarity, and the idea that it could become commonplace for men to transition just so they can dominate women's sports to be some extreme low-IQ, slippery-slope fear mongering.

I have no idea what the correct answer is. I just know the correct answer isn't creating a culture war out of this thing that directly affects so few people, yet demonizes and isolates young people who are going through a whole lot as it is. But here we are.

Edited October 2 by aggie08

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

I just can’t imagine at this time that a complete ban is the most correct solution. 

[gsoda3 3245]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

wait, now being below a certain height is a prerequisite for admission into women's athletic competition? I'm not the tallest woman athlete, not even close, ergo I'm within female athlete range. just because I would be shorter if I was born in alignment with my gender is irrelevant. try again.

no thanks, i'm comfortable in my body. 

 

i shouldn't have waded into this, we're obviously not going to agree. 

[Js1 85275]

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/10/01/amid-pressure-uw-volleyball-will-forfeit-match-to-team-with-trans-player/

Under Pressure

UW received plenty of pressure from people and groups urging it to forfeit.

The Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS) sent a letter to every Mountain West conference president saying the advocacy group had been speaking with “distraught student-athletes and their parents, coaches, and administrators” throughout the conference about “a crisis in WMC women’s volleyball.”  

The letter calls Fleming’s inclusion a violation of law and says ICONS is “watching closely the response of the MWC.”

On Tuesday, Steinmetz was circulating a petition-style letter of her own, trying to amass Republican lawmakers’ signatures in support of a forfeit.

The letter has overtones of negative financial consequences.

“The Legislature has been very clear that the University of Wyoming, being a publicly funded land grant institution, should not participate in the extremist agenda of Diversity Equity and Inclusion (DEI) or propagate the lie that biological sex can be changed,” says Steinmetz’s letter. “We all know it cannot.”

Steinmetz pointed to the recent primary election in which Republican candidates touting a willingness to push social conservatism through state laws performed generally better than more socially Libertarian candidates.  

“We assure you; the majority of our constituents do not want the integrity of Women’s Athletics to be decimated by the participation of males who overall have superior physical strength and abilities to women,” she wrote. “We further ask you to foster an environment where ladies are honored and protected, and men are respectful and gentlemanly.”

 

Nothing like some good old political pressure.  Remember the conservative outcry when the NCAA pulled out of events in North Carolina over the bathroom bill 

[Rex Kramer 1332]

8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

90%+ huh? You are so incredibly full of shit.

On biological men competing in women’s sports?  

[Brisketexan 105061]

30 minutes ago, troph said:

there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

This is the correct take.

You'll notice that, among the folks who scream the loudest about this being an issue, that is NOT their take.  At all.  It's 1000X more important to use it as a culture wars wedge issue, and in the process, demonize, terrorize, and treat cruelty a marginalized group of people, than it is to even BEGIN to consider a fair and equitable approach.

This isn't about a "problem" to be solved.

It's about an issue on which a particular group/side wants to claim some moral high ground, and crow a bunch.  And if it means demonizing the fuck out of transgender people so that they are treated like utter shit and driven to the point of suicide, who cares, I SCORED POINTS AND WAVED THE FLAG AND FREEDOM EAGLE JESUS FUCK QUEERS!

Fucking being mean to score points.  Not even making a tiny effort to address the actual issue in any holistic way.  AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!

[Pam Cummings 9639]

7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

90%+ huh? You are so incredibly full of shit. We're never going to get anywhere close to that level of agreement on this in this country.

I agree that there are uncomfortable issues with biological men competing in women's sports that need to be addressed in a respectful manner. But I also think that these athletes will continue to be a rarity, and the idea that it could become commonplace for men to transition just so they can dominate women's sports to be some extreme low-IQ, slippery-slope fear mongering.

I have no idea what the correct answer is. I just know the correct answer isn't creating a culture war out of this thing that directly affects so few people, yet demonizes and isolates young people who are going through a whole lot as it is. But here we are.

She has been playing there for like 3 years now and seems to be sort of a mid/rotational player. But this is being framed as if she is some huge monster who is dominating everyone. If anything, it proves that a trans athlete can be about on the same competitive level as their counterparts.

 

By the way. The idea of transitioning to be a woman for the sole purpose of being able to dominate female athletes is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Nobody is doing that. It reminds me of the South Park episode where Cartman fakes being handicapped to compete in the special Olympics, only to get dominated by all the disabled athletes. Turns out you actually still have to naturally be really good at the sport. 

[immamac 42835]

Notice the only ones who care are the ones who hate or think there's something wrong. If all of you quit defending the people who don't need to be defended here this thread would just be a bunch of haters circle jerking eachother. 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

Notice the only ones who care are the ones who hate or think there's something wrong. If all of you quit defending the people who don't need to be defended here this thread would just be a bunch of haters circle jerking eachother. 

This is probably true. Let them stroke their hate boners and think they are accomplishing something.

[troph 24781]

18 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

no thanks, i'm comfortable in my body. 

 

i shouldn't have waded into this, we're obviously not going to agree. 

wait, what you took from my response was a comment about you, your gender and your body? really? you're right we aren't going to agree, I typically don't agree with people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. as a general rule mind you, not one about trans issues only.

Edited October 2 by troph

[troph 24781]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

Notice the only ones who care are the ones who hate or think there's something wrong. If all of you quit defending the people who don't need to be defended here this thread would just be a bunch of haters circle jerking eachother. 

that's fine for you and others. this shit is personal to me though. the right to compete for any person who is innately an athlete is a fundamental human right. it's something in our DNA and we've been competing with our bodies since the moment we could scratch out the scenes in caves way back in the day.

Edited October 2 by troph

[Frank Drebin 5655]

16 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

She has been playing there for like 3 years now and seems to be sort of a mid/rotational player. But this is being framed as if she is some huge monster who is dominating everyone. If anything, it proves that a trans athlete can be about on the same competitive level as their counterparts.

 

By the way. The idea of transitioning to be a woman for the sole purpose of being able to dominate female athletes is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Nobody is doing that. It reminds me of the South Park episode where Cartman fakes being handicapped to compete in the special Olympics, only to get dominated by all the disabled athletes. Turns out you actually still have to naturally be really good at the sport. 

16 kills in a game seems more than mid/rotational to me.

https://x.com/SanJoseStateVB/status/1838784213526679808

[Hammerin Hank 1225]

If I was a player on one of these teams I would be fucking livid if my school made us forfeit. Why not just play the game? Imagine if that loss costs some team a postseason berth. Or, what if one of these teams runs into SJSU in a postseason game?

[SurlyGator 865]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

that's fine for you and others. this shit is personal to me though. the right to compete for any person who is innately an athlete is a fundamental human right. it's something in our DNA and we've been competing with our bodies since the moment we could scratch out the scenes in caves way back in the day.

Interesting phrasing, given the topic at hand...

[Dbeasy 15042]

51 minutes ago, troph said:

I'm 49 and a late transitioner and I fit squarely within female athletics parameters, from my hormone levels and physical strength, all the way down to my red blood cell count, red blood cell size, hemoglobin concentrations which are down the middle female range (some folks claim O2 carrying capacity is a reason why trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete). there is a way for everyone to win here (which does require more stringent requirements on trans athletes (thank you Lia Thomas grrrr), but nah, let's make it a south park skit and a wedge issue for voters, that makes sense.

This is why I like to checkin on surly. You hear interesting viewpoints on issues. This is an interesting idea. 

As a side note, I don’t understand why people line up so neatly on this issue to their already existing political affiliation. I would have thought this issue would have brought mixed viewpoints, given its complexity. But everyone is in their box. 

[SimonBolivar 10957]

5 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

If I was a player on one of these teams I would be fucking livid if my school made us forfeit. Why not just play the game? Imagine if that loss costs some team a postseason berth. Or, what if one of these teams runs into SJSU in a postseason game?

Yeah but volleyball players are more useful to the nation as an October.....SURPRISE!
 

[MontereyMX 869]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

You're so persecuted. I hope things turn around for you.

grow up ma’am

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

10 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

If I was a player on one of these teams I would be fucking livid if my school made us forfeit. Why not just play the game? Imagine if that loss costs some team a postseason berth. Or, what if one of these teams runs into SJSU in a postseason game?

No shit. Why not just play the game. You might actually win. A college level female volleyball player hasn’t frequently played against men for her entire career?

instead they decide to show SJSU by giving them the win. 

[Brian Fantana 6679]

Oh look, a certain poster ruins another thread. I'm sensing a pattern here.

[ztejas 43411]

She got 30 kills in a game in high school.

Stats-wise she appears to be a medicore volleyball player that gets a lot of kills. Kind of like you'd expect any decently athletic 6'0"+ male to play if you threw them in a women's game. 

Is there any info on when she transitioned or if she had any surgeries or hormone therapy? Looks like she was a she all through HS.

[Pescado_Rojo 19413]

7 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

If I was a player on one of these teams I would be fucking livid if my school made us forfeit. Why not just play the game? Imagine if that loss costs some team a postseason berth. Or, what if one of these teams runs into SJSU in a postseason game?

Well, Boise State is next to last in conference in the MWC, and Southern Utah has a 6-7 record so I doubt these decisions will affect their playoff aspirations. 

[Dahobbs 17525]

17 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

As a side note, I don’t understand why people line up so neatly on this issue to their already existing political affiliation. I would have thought this issue would have brought mixed viewpoints, given its complexity. But everyone is in their box. 

They actually don't. For instance, folks on one side might have different takes on how to decide who competes where. It is just that folks on the other side all agree that hate and political grandstanding is more important than actually discussing reasonable policies for a niche issue that affects an extremely small percentage of athletic participants. 

Also ironic that the folks for small government and freedoms are all about government intrusion into female athletics that they don't otherwise give a damn about. 

 

Edited October 2 by Dahobbs

[Your Mom 4805]

I’d be curious to know about what percentage of the people who are outraged by this issue gave one single fuck about women’s sports before.  Unless you’re a parent of a female athlete you likely didn’t pay attention or care one bit about women’s sports before. But now all of a sudden you’re fucking outraged and have to fix this great injustice.   It’s just another case of people needing to find something to be angry about.   Who fucking cares?  

Some school could decide to put LeBron James on their women’s basketball team and I don’t think I would care about it other than some simple amusement. 

[Bevo 13564]

59 minutes ago, troph said:

wait, now being below a certain height is a prerequisite for admission into women's athletic competition? I'm not the tallest woman athlete, not even close, ergo I'm within female athlete range. just because I would be shorter if I was born in alignment with my gender is irrelevant. try again.

 

You are comparing an average male to a women's athletic team. Now compare an above average male to a women's athletic team. And as for your earlier comments, they are fair but there may be other genetic differences besides the known sex hormones. Those other differences are much harder to test for since they may be unknown to scientists.

[Rex Kramer 1332]

4 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I’d be curious to know about what percentage of the people who are outraged by this issue gave one single fuck about women’s sports before.  Unless you’re a parent of a female athlete you likely didn’t pay attention or care one bit about women’s sports before. But now all of a sudden you’re fucking outraged and have to fix this great injustice.   It’s just another case of people needing to find something to be angry about.   Who fucking cares?  

Some school could decide to put LeBron James on their women’s basketball team and I don’t think I would care about it other than some simple amusement. 

I’ve got two female athletes. I’m not outraged by this.