Wyoming forfeits Volleyball matchup with San Jose State

[Don Johnson 4753]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'd love to see a source here. 

 

I like the WNBA as much as anyone here but Duncanville would wipe the floor with the Aces. 

There are plenty of WNBA players that I think could give you minutes at a high varsity-boys level but 5 on 5 no fucking way. You think Tre Johnson couldn't hoof it in the W?

Ron Holland, Anthony Black and three bodies would wipe the floor with the Aces.  This is stupid.

[huge 3793]

It would be interesting to hear what the Wyoming team thinks.  I doubt any of them will be allowed to comment?

[Rex Kramer 1338]

32 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Terrible opinion and you should feel bad. We went 6'7", 6'9", 6'10 across the front line and the guards were 6'1" and 6'4". Not great athletes but 3 went on to play D1. We didn't win state. Not even close. Sorry for your aggressiveness, but it doesn't change reality.

 

I wasn't impressed with Clarissa Davis playing against her at Gregory 30 years ago and watching the Olympics, I'm still unimpressed with the state of women's basketball. The 3on3 shit was atrocious and the games were bad as well.

My team averaged 6’4” across the board. We had 2 D-1 players and a lot more than could’ve played D2 (some did; I chose not to). Two Longhorns and one NBA player. We lost in the second round of playoffs. His comment was ridiculous. We’d take any WNBA team. 

[JBJ 3654]

My female cousin played for Stanford and the US junior national team.  Most junior high B teams would beat them.  I'm not saying that to be mean.  I don't think most people grasp the difference between sexes at the competitive level.  Sue Bird was 5'9" and ran a 5 sec 40.

[Rex Kramer 1338]

28 minutes ago, royiv said:

No, I guess it’s not and, yes, I guess I am. Please explain what you meant because it appears to me that you said that you’re glad that 25 states have laws in place that prohibit transwomen from competing in women’s sports and then you specifically mentioned it in reference to your daughters. Do you not give a shit if a person who has fully transitioned competes in women’s sports? Because, if so, I owe you an apology for misinterpreting your point.

Okay, I’ll answer. I don’t have a concern because I live in a state that shuts it down. That’s the obvious part. If I lived in say, California, I still wouldn’t be that concerned because it’s not something that would likely come up in their careers, and you can burn a lot of energy on such issues. If they did compete against a bio boy, its likely one that hasn’t fully transitioned and yes I’d have an issue with it. My oldest daughter is a dancer and runs varsity track (100 and 200). My youngest has no interest in dance or cheer and plays volleyball, hoops, lax and runs track. Yes, they could participate collegiate, particularly the younger one. 

[troph 24798]

44 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Terrible opinion and you should feel bad. We went 6'7", 6'9", 6'10 across the front line and the guards were 6'1" and 6'4". Not great athletes but 3 went on to play D1. We didn't win state. Not even close. Sorry for your aggressiveness, but it doesn't change reality.

 

I wasn't impressed with Clarissa Davis playing against her at Gregory 30 years ago and watching the Olympics, I'm still unimpressed with the state of women's basketball. The 3on3 shit was atrocious and the games were bad as well.

The elite tall women athletes generally play volleyball right now and that might change with WNBA growing in popularity but it’s pretty clear the female athlete today is nothing like the female athlete 30 years ago.  Madisen skinner has an insane vertical jump. She’s dunking a basketball like a dude if she wants. she skies over the net it’s insane and if those like her played basketball the sport would be much different.

Edited October 2 by troph

[Rex Kramer 1338]

26 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

There are HS basketball team that have multiple players that will be college studs or NBA players in a year or two.

South Carolina's women's team went 38-0 this year.  They practice with - and often lose to - male college students.

How many times does the story have to be told about the USWNT losing to a bunch of 14 year old boys?  That wasn't because of skill.  It was because of size, strength and speed across the board.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2023/11/10/carli-lloyd-confirms-uswnt-once-lost-team-15-year-old-boys

 

There is nuance to this discussion, but to act like there isn't a massive physical advantage for males over females in athletics is dishonest.

My 14 yo son’s club team would give them a run for their money.  We have a kid now who’s of Griner height. Once those boys get to varsity?  It’d be no contest. 

[52-80 19159]

2 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

On biological men competing in women’s sports? 
 

 

 

Being against trans in opposite-birth-gender sports is 77% of those who took a position.

Which is the 2nd strongest consensus after being FOR protection of trans in other aspects of society (86%)

 

[PW119 167]

Why isn't there controversy when a woman transitioning to man plays college volleyball, or basketball, or football? It's just so hypocritical and hateful.

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

 

Being against trans in opposite-birth-gender sports is 77% of those who took a position.

Which is the 2nd strongest consensus after being FOR protection of trans in other aspects of society (86%)

 

So maybe its not a hate thing?

[royiv 9317]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Okay, I’ll answer. I don’t have a concern because I live in a state that shuts it down. That’s the obvious part. If I lived in say, California, I still wouldn’t be that concerned because it’s not something that would likely come up in their careers, and you can burn a lot of energy on such issues. If they did compete against a bio boy, its likely one that hasn’t fully transitioned and yes I’d have an issue with it. My oldest daughter is a dancer and runs varsity track (100 and 200). My youngest has no interest in dance or cheer and plays volleyball, hoops, lax and runs track. Yes, they could participate collegiate, particularly the younger one. 

Appreciate the response. It seems that you acknowledge that this is something that would likely never impact you or your daughters personally in the absence of laws. If that’s the case, please make the case to me why we should make this into a huge political issue?

If you watch any sports on TV, a certain senate candidate has manufactured this into the absolute biggest issues that he’s running on. It just seems to me that there are bigger issues in our society that are more pressing and should be addressed first. In the meantime, leave the rule making up to entities like UIL and NCAA. It’s clearly an issue that requires some thoughtful consideration, but instead we have a vocal minority that wants to punch down on a statistically minuscule group of athletes and, in turn, all trans people. That doesn’t sit well with me.

[Bevo 13577]

5 minutes ago, JBJ said:

My female cousin played for Stanford and the US junior national team.  Most junior high B teams would beat them.  I'm not saying that to be mean.  I don't think most people grasp the difference between sexes at the competitive level.  Sue Bird was 5'9" and ran a 5 sec 40.

 

I have a hard time seeing the other opinion. Every single 6'4" guard in college could dunk with one step and then you watch a college or pro women's team and they all play below the rim. The 6'4" and above women are incredibly slow and uncoordinated.

 

 

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

16 minutes ago, troph said:

The elite tall women athletes generally play volleyball right now and that might change with WNBA growing in popularity but it’s pretty clear the female athlete today is nothing like the female athlete 30 years ago.  Madisen skinner has an insane vertical jump. She’s dunking a basketball like a dude if she wants. she skies over the net it’s insane and if those like her played basketball the sport would be much different.

The male athlete today is nothing like the male athlete of 30 years ago.  You can go to a 15U AAU game and multiple male children are dunking like you say 23 year old Skinner can.

[52-80 19159]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

But I also think that these athletes will continue to be a rarity, and the idea that it could become commonplace for men to transition just so they can dominate women's sports to be some extreme low-IQ, slippery-slope fear mongering.

I have no idea what the correct answer is. I just know the correct answer isn't creating a culture war out of this thing that directly affects so few people

Are people allowed to discuss and hold positions on any topic out of principle alone?

Or will you gatekeep the discussion by poisoning the well unless the topic exceeds some rarity threshold?

['stache 21815]

16 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

 

Being against trans in opposite-birth-gender sports is 77% of those who took a position.

Which is the 2nd strongest consensus after being FOR protection of trans in other aspects of society (86%)

 

Question stated without any reference to rules that are in place at every major competitive level. So most respondents are thinking Randy Savage wearing a bow and competing against women. The discussion is meaningless without that context, and the most vocal don't give a shit because their sole interest is in virtue signaling. 

Edited October 2 by 'stache

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

1st issue that is completely ignored is safety.  Example 1 Payton McNabb.

RALEIGH, N.C. (TND) — A high school volleyball player who suffered severe head and neck injuries resulting in long-term concussion symptoms after a girl she says is transgender spiked a ball in her face is now speaking out publicly for the first time.

"Due to the North Carolina High School Athletic Association policy allowing biological males to compete against biological females my life has forever been changed," Payton McNabb, now a senior at Hiwassee Dam High School in Murphy, North Carolina, said during a Thursday committee hearing of the North Carolina state legislature.

McNabb indicated that, to this day, she is still recovering from her injuries, and continues to face other health struggles as a result of what happened, such as impaired vision, partial paralysis on the right side of her body, constant headaches, anxiety and depression.

Injured volleyball player speaks out after alleged transgender opponent spiked ball at her (wlos.com)

 

2.  One of her own teammates has joined the lawsuit against her

SJSU Volleyball Player Joins Lawsuit Against NCAA’s Transgender Policies (thespearsjsu.com)

 

3.  There is not one Olympic or world record that a female holds over a male.  To deny or downplay physical differences between the sexes in nonsense. 

Florence Griffith-Joyner set the WR in 1988 with a 10.49 100m.  This is accomplished by thousands of high school boys every year.

[Dahobbs 17534]

16 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

So maybe its not a hate thing?

You don't think people in favor of laws limiting the medical treatment a trans person can get, limiting where they can go to the bathroom, and limiting whether their very existence can be taught about at school don't have some fucking hate in their heart? 

Women use men's restrooms at public events all the fucking time because of the lines. There is no law against it. The people in favor of laws for trans people ONLY want those laws to apply to trans people. It is punishment. It is hate. That's all the fuck it is. 

Edited October 2 by Dahobbs

[royiv 9317]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Are people allowed to discuss and hold positions on any topic out of principle alone?

Or will you gatekeep the discussion by poisoning the well unless the topic exceeds some rarity threshold?

Absolutely, my stance is rooted in principle. Humans have been competing in sports for thousands of years. This issue was manufactured by a group of people who want to demonize a group of people. I’m against demonizing groups of people. If the folks who created this wedge issue would reevaluate their approach and come at it with a thoughtful discussion involving multiple stakeholders and craft a solution that doesn’t put trans athletes at risk for public humiliation or worse, then hell yeah, let’s do that. Until that happens, the folks who manufactured this culture war shit can go fuck themselves.

[52-80 19159]

5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Question stated without any reference to rules that are in place at every major competitive level. So the implication for most respondents is Randy Savage wearing a bow and competing against women. The discussion is meaningless without that context, and the most vocal don't give a shit because their sole interest is in virtue signaling. 

If you’re talking about the question of this poll alone, yes its necessarily a broad question to gauge the general sentiment on various trans issue (not a forensic study of sports). 

The polling is done primarily online, so there is no incentive or social credit to virtue signal through faking a response. 

[Don Johnson 4753]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You don't think people in favor of laws limiting the medical treatment a trans person can get, limiting where they can go to the bathroom, and limiting whether their very existence can be taught about at school don't have some fucking hate in their heart? 

Women use men's restrooms at public events all the fucking time because of the lines. There is no law against it. The people in favor of laws for trans people ONLY want those laws to apply to trans people. It is punishment. It is hate. That's all the fuck it is. 

You're changing the discussion.  The polling he presented showed that a majority support the protections you outline above while a majority also do not support biological males participating in female sports.

Basically, there are a shitload of people who are against it for reasons other than hate.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

40 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

 We had 2 D-1 players and a lot more than could’ve played D2 (some did; I chose not to).

[royiv 9317]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Women use men's restrooms at public events all the fucking time because of the lines. There is no law against it.

Tell me about it. I thought the benefit of being a dude at a Taylor Swift concert was going to be short lines for the men’s room. Instead I had to muscle past dozens of females (or were they?!?!?) so I could whip out my dong at a urinal.

[Dahobbs 17534]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

1st issue that is completely ignored is safety.  Example 1 Payton McNabb.

RALEIGH, N.C. (TND) — A high school volleyball player who suffered severe head and neck injuries resulting in long-term concussion symptoms after a girl she says is transgender spiked a ball in her face is now speaking out publicly for the first time.

"Due to the North Carolina High School Athletic Association policy allowing biological males to compete against biological females my life has forever been changed," Payton McNabb, now a senior at Hiwassee Dam High School in Murphy, North Carolina, said during a Thursday committee hearing of the North Carolina state legislature.

McNabb indicated that, to this day, she is still recovering from her injuries, and continues to face other health struggles as a result of what happened, such as impaired vision, partial paralysis on the right side of her body, constant headaches, anxiety and depression.

Injured volleyball player speaks out after alleged transgender opponent spiked ball at her (wlos.com)

 

2.  One of her own teammates has joined the lawsuit against her

SJSU Volleyball Player Joins Lawsuit Against NCAA’s Transgender Policies (thespearsjsu.com)

 

3.  There is not one Olympic or world record that a female holds over a male.  To deny or downplay physical differences between the sexes in nonsense. 

Florence Griffith-Joyner set the WR in 1988 with a 10.49 100m.  This is accomplished by thousands of high school boys every year.

1. People get injured in sports all the time. It does not take a transgender person for it to happen. 

2. I don't think anyone is downplaying the biologic differences. The primary issue is hormones and the fact is that there is a wide range of values even among those with same chromosomes. Sex isn't strictly binary and neither is hormonal distribution. There is a discussion to be had within individual sports and how to divide competitors up. But it certainly doesn't need to be legislated or unified across all sports. 

[troph 24798]

16 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

The male athlete today is nothing like the male athlete of 30 years ago.  You can go to a 15U AAU game and multiple male children are dunking like you say 23 year old Skinner can.

My only point was the best womens basketball athletes play volleyball right now. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

4 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

You're changing the discussion.  The polling he presented showed that a majority support the protections you outline above while a majority also do not support biological males participating in female sports.

Basically, there are a shitload of people who are against it for reasons other than hate.

No. I'm not. I've already said that opinions on it varied. But I've also pointed out that vocal element pushing the issue now aren't doing it out of concern for fairness in women's sports. They are doing it out of hate. And that is what that polling shows. That 41% that want transgender folks to be forced to use a certain bathroom under penalty of law? That's fucking hate. That's all it is. These are the same folks that wanted blacks to use colored facilities. Its the same discriminatory story repeating itself. 

[52-80 19159]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Absolutely, my stance is rooted in principle. Humans have been competing in sports for thousands of years. This issue was manufactured by a group of people who want to demonize a group of people. I’m against demonizing groups of people. If the folks who created this wedge issue would reevaluate their approach and come at it with a thoughtful discussion involving multiple stakeholders and craft a solution that doesn’t put trans athletes at risk for public humiliation or worse, then hell yeah, let’s do that. Until that happens, the folks who manufactured this culture war shit can go fuck themselves.

And for thousands of years in basically every sport in every society, the competition is segregated by gender. 

What is the potential “thoughtful solution” here? Because I’ve not seen a single proposal yet, but only accusations of malice for daring to even broach this subject. 

[Helobious 9454]

lol at a pro women’s team beating a top flight high school boys team. Most women have to shoot the ball at a laughably low release point, they’d really struggle to score from the outside. It’d have to all be breakaway layups or quick cuts.

[Don Johnson 4753]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

No. I'm not. I've already said that opinions on it varied. But I've also pointed out that vocal element pushing the issue now aren't doing it out of concern for fairness in women's sports. They are doing it out of hate. And that is what that polling shows. That 41% that want transgender folks to be forced to use a certain bathroom under penalty of law? That's fucking hate. That's all it is. These are the same folks that wanted blacks to use colored facilities. Its the same discriminatory story repeating itself. 

I would agree that 100% of those that favor bathroom laws support a ban on biological males playing female sports.  But not vice versa.

And I am under the impression that this thread is about biological males playing female sports.

[Don Johnson 4753]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

And for thousands of years in basically every sport in every society, the competition is segregated by gender. 

What is the potential “thoughtful solution” here? Because I’ve not seen a single proposal yet, but only accusations of malice for daring to even broach this subject. 

Posters keep saying there's nuance or differing opinions but then also say anyone who is questioning it is doing so out of hate.

[Rex Kramer 1338]

28 minutes ago, royiv said:

Appreciate the response. It seems that you acknowledge that this is something that would likely never impact you or your daughters personally in the absence of laws. If that’s the case, please make the case to me why we should make this into a huge political issue?

If you watch any sports on TV, a certain senate candidate has manufactured this into the absolute biggest issues that he’s running on. It just seems to me that there are bigger issues in our society that are more pressing and should be addressed first. In the meantime, leave the rule making up to entities like UIL and NCAA. It’s clearly an issue that requires some thoughtful consideration, but instead we have a vocal minority that wants to punch down on a statistically minuscule group of athletes and, in turn, all trans people. That doesn’t sit well with me.

I hear the senate race ads. It’s a political issue because Lia Thomas does happen, and it’s viewed as wokeness run amok. Leaving rule making to an utterly toothless organization like the NCAA is dangerous, and I am pretty certain in instances like Thomas (not a great number I would imagine), it’s not a vocal minority. It’s the majority, at the very least, and probably vast majority. 

Having said that, as I said, it’s not an issue I get wound up about. And absolutely there are bigger fish to fry. 

[52-80 19159]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

lol at a pro women’s team beating a top flight high school boys team. Most women have to shoot the ball at a laughably low release point, they’d really struggle to score from the outside. It’d have to all be breakaway layups or quick cuts.

The whole divergence into ‘well i guarantee heres 1/2/3 examples of a professional female athlete better at x/y/z than most of you men’ is predictably dull

[troph 24798]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

And for thousands of years in basically every sport in every society, the competition is segregated by gender. 

What is the potential “thoughtful solution” here? Because I’ve not seen a single proposal yet, but only accusations of malice for daring to even broach this subject. 

Hi. 

[Rex Kramer 1338]

16 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I got a full ride to University of Niagara Falls where I could’ve been with my girlfriend. 

[Steel Shank 9425]

My DNA was in your mom last night.

[royiv 9317]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

I hear the senate race ads. It’s a political issue because Lia Thomas does happen, and it’s viewed as wokeness run amok. Leaving rule making to an utterly toothless organization like the NCAA is dangerous, and I am pretty certain in instances like Thomas (not a great number I would imagine), it’s not a vocal minority. It’s the majority, at the very least, and probably vast majority. 

Having said that, as I said, it’s not an issue I get wound up about. And absolutely there are bigger fish to fry. 

So we need to pass legislation based on one single athlete? What a waste of government resources.

[troph 24798]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The whole divergence into ‘well i guarantee heres 1/2/3 examples of a professional female athlete better at x/y/z than most of you men’ is predictably dull

I started the discussion with many men think they can compete with elite women athletes. In one survey 12% of men - JAGs - thought they could handle a Serena Williams serve and score a point off of her serve. Absent a double fault on her part (which isn’t out of the question) that’s just insanely sexist. 

Edited October 2 by troph

[royiv 9317]

9 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

And for thousands of years in basically every sport in every society, the competition is segregated by gender. 

What is the potential “thoughtful solution” here? Because I’ve not seen a single proposal yet, but only accusations of malice for daring to even broach this subject. 

Haven’t read the thread have you?

[WBT 20572]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

Who cares? How is this even an issue that anyone gives a shit about? Do people really think that cisgender men are going to electively transition to compete in women’s sports? This issues is so incredibly ridiculous. 

Why would one have to think to care?

[Don Johnson 4753]

6 minutes ago, troph said:

I started the discussion with many men think they can compete with elite women athletes. In one survey 12% of men - JAGs - thought they could handle a Serena Williams serve and score a point off of her serve. Absent a double fault on her part (which isn’t out of the question) that’s just insanely sexist. 

JAGs cannot.  But the 203 ranked male in the world beat her 6-1, 6-2 and said he took it easy on her.

[52-80 19159]

Just now, troph said:

Hi. 

I was gonna tag/quote you in that question actually.

I like you, and have never written a single bad word against you, though we may have disagreed in good faith. So lets start from basics:

Should sports be segregated? On what basis? If your current biological measurements all align outside your birth group, does it invalidate that grouping — ie should it be ignored for basis of segregation? What is the alternative?

 

[Blotto 23511]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

This is just straight up bullshit. Professional women's basketball players would wipe the floor with any high school team. How can you be this fucking dumb? It's fine not to enjoy women's basketball, but this is an absolute dogshit take.

Congratulations. On a thread full of shitty takes, yours outdistances everybody else's shitty take by 300%. Basketball is a sport dominated by height, speed, strength and athleticism. Is it your theory that while they are getting dunked on, blocked, muscled out for rebounds, and constantly smoked down the court on fast breaks, the  women would ultimately pull out the win due to their crisp, fundamentally sound bounce  passes? 

Edited October 2 by Blotto

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

8 minutes ago, troph said:

I started the discussion with many men think they can compete with elite women athletes. In one survey 12% of men - JAGs - thought they could handle a Serena Williams serve and score a point off of her serve. Absent a double fault on her part (which isn’t out of the question) that’s just insanely sexist. 

Serena averages 106 on her serve and a max of 128.  High school boys serve over 100mph in the high levels of UTSA, and routinely hit and return serves this hard.  The pace on their groundstrokes is also equal, but the consistency and shot making are not world class like Serena.  I've seen the radar guns at academies and tournaments etc.  She would still destroy them in a match, but return of serve/win a point etc wouldn't be an issue for many.

[52-80 19159]

9 minutes ago, royiv said:

Haven’t read the thread have you?

Ive counted in the thread 3 to 4 instances (including yours) policing the discourse to the tune of: something rational should be done. people only talk about this now because theyre hateful. 
 

except, curiously, that something is never explained. 

[B00M 6416]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Except that is literally false.  FFS, the ACTUAL TRANS PERSON ON THIS THREAD EXPRESSED A MIXED VIEWPOINT.  Most of us believe that there is surely a rational and balanced way to approach the issue, and we lament that the current "conversation" has ZERO interest in finding such a way.

I think the issue is that there simply isn’t a solution that’s simultaneously ‘fair’ to biological females and transitioned females. This has been discussed for several years now and I’ve yet to see any brilliant idea. One group or the other justifiably feels wronged. I have no idea what the answer is, but I don’t think it’s fair to have every record ever set by biological females inevitably beaten and buried by transitioned females. 

[royiv 9317]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Ive counted in the thread 3 to 4 instances (including yours) policing the discourse to the tune of: something rational should be done. people only talk about this now because theyre hateful. 
 

except, curiously, that something is never explained. 

Because a poster, who has firsthand experience, offered a lot of good insight. I didn’t feel like I can add a lot more to the wisdom that she shared.

[52-80 19159]

13 minutes ago, troph said:

I started the discussion with many men think they can compete with elite women athletes. In one survey 12% of men - JAGs - thought they could handle a Serena Williams serve and score a point off of her serve. Absent a double fault on her part (which isn’t out of the question) that’s just insanely sexist. 

what some people delude themselves into thinking they could do* doesnt change the stark reality of group differences. 

*just ask Kevin. 

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

5 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

JAGs cannot.  But the 203 ranked male in the world beat her 6-1, 6-2 and said he took it easy on her.

Beat Serena 6-1

Venus 6-2 (Venus was the better player when their careers began)

"I was sitting there [in the tournament office] when the girls were saying they could beat any man ranked outside 200," Braasch told Fialkov. "I said ‘I’m 203 in the world and we can do it if you want to'. I [lost in the first round of singles and doubles] so I had another five days in Australia and had nothing to do."

The bearded Braasch, wearing glasses resembling swimming goggles and a baggy Reebok shirt, looked more like a mad scientist than a tennis pro as he squared off against Serena on Court 17 at Melbourne Park in a match played before a few hundred fans without lines people, a chair umpire or TV cameras.

The quirky lefty's herky-jerky serve and masterful skill shifting spins and creating obscure angles befuddled the teenage Serena as Braasch prevailed, 6-1.

Venus, who supported Serena from the stands, challenged Braasch immediately after the set to only a slightly better result. The German, who had a fondness for smoking Marlboros during some changeovers, extended rallies and deployed the same disorientating array of spins defeating Venus, 6-2.

[B00M 6416]

3 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Congratulations. On a thread full of shitty takes, yours outdistances everybody else's shitty take by 300%. Basketball is a sport dominated by height, speed, strength and athleticism. Is it your theory that while they are getting dunked on, blocked, muscled out for rebounds, and constantly smoked down the court on fast breaks, the  women would ultimately pull out the win due to their crisp, fundamentally sound bounce  passes? 

True or not this was hilarious. 

 

[Dahobbs 17534]

31 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

I would agree that 100% of those that favor bathroom laws support a ban on biological males playing female sports.  But not vice versa.

And I am under the impression that this thread is about biological males playing female sports.

I have no idea what point you're making. You suggested hate wasn't the reason for the outrage, citing that poll. I pointed out that the poll in fact supports the conclusion that hate is a driving force behind the outrage. Do you disagree that people that want transgender bathroom laws (which btw, we don't have for anyone else) are doing so out of the same sort of discriminatory animus that led to segregated facilities based on race? 

If I'm right (which I definitely am), then of the 58% that favored laws limiting transgender participation in women's sports, at least 70% of them are doing so because of hate. 

Edited October 2 by Dahobbs

[Brisketexan 105142]

Just now, B00M said:

I think the issue is that there simply isn’t a solution that’s simultaneously ‘fair’ to biological females and transitioned females. This has been discussed for several years now and I’ve yet to see any brilliant idea. One group or the other justifiably feels wronged. I have no idea what the answer is, but I don’t think it’s fair to have every record ever set by biological females inevitably beaten and buried by transitioned females. 

I'd suspect that a conversation that begins with "we know something that is perfectly fair, and is perceived as such by all interested parties, is all but impossible.  So, we're going to come as close to it as we can.  And, we'll continue to follow progress and performance, to see if the solution requires amendment as we go forward."  Then, build something that is based on metrics tied to things that actually affect athletic performance.  Just "she was born a dude!" isn't a good metric...nor is it even a sufficient metric (because what is "born a dude?"  For example, the boxer who was the source of so much controversy was born with female genitalia, but had XY chromosomes.  Is it just chromosomes?  "Intersex" people present a real conundrum, so taking it out of "look and see if she has a dick" (which is an asshole approach anyway) is the only thing that would make sense).  I'm not a Dr., I'm no expert in phsyiology.  But I suspect that legit Drs who are experts could offer some objective metrics.

And like any rule, of course it won't be perfect.  Someone who identifies as a female will fail to pass muster on those metrics, and will not be allowed to play women's sports.  And someone who just barely passes those metrics, but appears to have numerous advantages that come from that fact (being close to the threshold levels of hormones, for example) will be able to compete as a woman, and people will bitch that she has an advantage.

And maybe, just fucking maybe, we should leave a little fucking room for grace and imperfection.

But nope.  We're just going to make a torrent of political ads about this to create division for personal gain and to feel like we've captured some sort of high ground to make us feel superior.   None of what I suggested will ever happen, for the same reason that we won't ever "solve" any other hot-button issue: there's too much invested in keeping it as a point of division and tribal identity.  We're fucking assholes, and that is the one thing we'll never, ever, ever give up.