Houston Chron: FBISD disproportionately punishes black students

[Pancho 45118]

6x more likely to receive out of school suspension and 4x more likely to be placed on in school suspension 

 

[Pancho 45118]

On my phone. Meant to post this in daily Texan 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Discrimination?  Or are black students acting up more than asian students?

I am guessing Clements High School in FBISD has a hell of a lot less disciplinary issues than Willowridge or Hightower.

I would be interested in seeing punishments by race for similar infractions.  Is the white or asian kid getting into a fight punished more severely than the black kid?

 

[Mez2 4027]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Discrimination?  Or are black students acting up more than asian students?

I am guessing Clements High School in FBISD has a hell of a lot less disciplinary issues than Willowridge or Hightower.

I would be interested in seeing punishments by race for similar infractions.  Is the white or asian kid getting into a fight punished more severely than the black kid?

 

you forgot Bush and Marshall as well.

[DaysOff 7978]

John Foster Dulles in the house

[Fico 1791]

18 minutes ago, Mez2 said:

you forgot Bush and Marshall as well.

Bush High, Bush ba Bush High, don't ask why, just look to the sky

 

I can tell you I received ISS at Kempner once, circa 2000, and never at Bush.... I am white.  You have to get that "Office Work" setup for you AP if you want to skate son.

[TwiceHorn 31624]

I have little doubt that sub- or semi-conscious "racism" plays a role in this.  Probably a bit of intentional, conscious, and invidious racism and discrimination, too.  Also a lot of bad behavior by those economically and socially disadvantaged.

 

But if you cared to or could investigate, I bet you would find that boys get it worse than girls, redheads more than brunettes and then blondes, and general-purpose ugly people more than more attractive ones.

 

Which doesn't make it right, but might place a good deal of it beyond the reach of the law, or most other human intervention.

 

Without more detail and analysis, it kind of boils down to Augie Garrido.  The world treats winners very differently from losers.  It's a valid observation, but it sure is cringeworthy.

 

 

[Chuychanga 133]

I'm as progressive minded as anyone but this report is worthless without knowing exactly what each infraction was and what the student's attitude was like between getting caught and getting punished.  

[RDCanecutter 26484]

And also who is doing the suspending. Speaking as a guy who has been a white teacher in some majority-black schools, and has seen black admins do some draconian shit to the kids.

[futureman 22559]

1 hour ago, Chuychanga said:

I'm as progressive minded as anyone but this report is worthless without knowing exactly what each infraction was and what the student's attitude was like between getting caught and getting punished.  

you’re wrong.  every demographic should be punished an equal amount regardless of their actions.  or are you are bigot?

[Huckleberry 33120]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Discrimination?  Or are black students acting up more than asian students?

I am guessing Clements High School in FBISD has a hell of a lot less disciplinary issues than Willowridge or Hightower.

I would be interested in seeing punishments by race for similar infractions.  Is the white or asian kid getting into a fight punished more severely than the black kid?

 

 

From the linked story:

Among their findings: Data analysis showed black students who were slapped with dress code violations at Elkins High school were nearly twice as likely to receive in-school suspensions than their white peers. While a black student at Quail Run Middle received one day of in-school suspension and one day of out-of-school suspension for making a derogatory statement, a white student accused of the same infraction received only a parent conference and a notation that the student will “think before he speaks.” Of 14 white students referred to Sugar Land Middle administrators for first-offense tardiness, only one was given detention. Of 17 black students sent to the office for the same infraction, six were given detention slips.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Chuychanga said:

what the student's attitude was like between getting caught and getting punished.  

that's the biggest unaccounted-for factor

[You don't know me 1161]

I got ISS twice during my senior year at Clements (circa 1986-87) and I am white.  I am now pissed that I didn't get a strongly worded note in my 'permanent record'.  Where was my f'n white privilege?  Who do I need to contact?

[JBJ 3668]

18 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

that's the biggest unaccounted-for factor

The teachers and admins know who just slipped up, who is an actual cause for concern, and which punishment each student will respond to.

If you were on the football team at my highschool, the teachers didn't bother with referrals; they told the head coach.  That's when you were really fucked.

[Pancho 45118]

2 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

And also who is doing the suspending. Speaking as a guy who has been a white teacher in some majority-black schools, and has seen black admins do some draconian shit to the kids.

There’s some studies out there that show black teachers/admins are harder on black kids than some white admins.

 

[RollLeft 5045]

Good to see no matter the color everyone seems to be breaking the rules.   That said 

Are there biggots who are teachers at FB? Probably.  

Are there blacks getting a raw deal at FB?  Probably. 

Does this report support this discrimination?  No, not in my opinion.

Even if it did, what percentage of cases can we remove due to discrimination?  10%, 50%?

Even if you say 50% , which imo is high, of the in/out of school suspensions of blacks were unjust and removed it appears the data would still have them towards the top of the list. 

Maybe kids, who happen to be black, are just breaking the rules at a higher rate?  Maybe not but if so why is that wrong with owning that?   

Though anecdotal i know enough educators to know that they don't have time to carry out any racial agenda or bias.  And those that do i'd wager they are in the minority.  Certainly not at the rates that are being reported above.  I wish there were more solutions to helping educate all the kids in ISS rather than try and figure out what ethnicities that are there. 

  

 

[elfenix 34344]

3 hours ago, DaysOff said:

John Foster Dulles in the house

thanks for the mullahs, asshole.

[Huckleberry 33120]

16 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

Good to see no matter the color everyone seems to be breaking the rules.   That said 

Are there biggots who are teachers at FB? Probably.  

Are there blacks getting a raw deal at FB?  Probably. 

Does this report support this discrimination?  No, not in my opinion.

Even if it did, what percentage of cases can we remove due to discrimination?  10%, 50%?

Even if you say 50% , which imo is high, of the in/out of school suspensions of blacks were unjust and removed it appears the data would still have them towards the top of the list. 

Maybe kids, who happen to be black, are just breaking the rules at a higher rate?  Maybe not but if so why is that wrong with owning that?   

Though anecdotal i know enough educators to know that they don't have time to carry out any racial agenda or bias.  And those that do i'd wager they are in the minority.  Certainly not at the rates that are being reported above.  I wish there were more solutions to helping educate all the kids in ISS rather than try and figure out what ethnicities that are there. 

  

 

Unintentional (subconscious) discrimination is no less damaging than intentional discrimination in this kind of educational situation.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Incredulity 11684]

I’m getting a message from the future.... what’s that..???

I....I.....see “unconscious bias training” in the future of FBISD teachers.  Perhaps the consultant who “trained” the Starbucks staff can be engaged.

[RDCanecutter 26484]

22 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

There’s some studies out there that show black teachers/admins are harder on black kids than some white admins.

 

All I've got is what I saw... it wasn't every place, but a couple stood out:

One place, summer program for future college students. It's teens who know they don't have to be there, so always on the edge of getting a little goofy. I am the only white person. The teachers had high standards and were consciously fighting against the "soft bigotry of low expectations", but it got way too damn close to Zero Tolerance for me. Started to feel like Black Women Who Will Kick Out Every Black Boy, Inc. The kids weren't violent or hateful, just a little slack because it was summertime. I may have talked the boss out of kicking out a couple.

The other place was an HBCU. I don't have time to type out everything I saw. I don't think they treated the students as well as they could have.

[naija 2869]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

From the linked story:

 

 

bless your kind heart for thinking people should actually read the articles....

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Blacks also get worse grades and have worse SAT scores. Racism I guess.

[RollLeft 5045]

16 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Blacks also get worse grades and have worse SAT scores. Racism I guess.

History shows that to be true, but i'm sure you'd agree that in time that statistic will close as the socioeconomic gap between those two groups closes.    

[Dennis Taylor 18886]

also doesn't account for campaigns that a campus principal may run, for example a tardy sweep or dress code crackdown with enhanced consequences if they decided those issues have been big problems. this headline is designed to stir shit up, not determine the accuracy of the conclusion they jumped to   

[Huckleberry 33120]

I’m getting a message from the future.... what’s that..???
I....I.....see “unconscious bias training” in the future of FBISD teachers.  Perhaps the consultant who “trained” the Starbucks staff can be engaged.

The statistics and report both prove that discriminatory discipline is taking place. Are you suggesting that is intentional rather than unintentional?

[futureman 22559]

dp

Edited August 8, 2018 by futureman

[Incredulity 11684]

27 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

I’m getting a message from the future.... what’s that..???
I....I.....see “unconscious bias training” in the future of FBISD teachers.  Perhaps the consultant who “trained” the Starbucks staff can be engaged.

The statistics and report both prove that discriminatory discipline is taking place. Are you suggesting that is intentional rather than unintentional?

I am commenting on, if it’s unintentional how is that going to be remedied?

Statistical population analysis as a indication of discrimination shouldn’t be an end all be all.  

[Huckleberry 33120]

Fairly easily; one obvious and immediate solution is to track disciplinary actions so that discrepancies can be investigated internally without the need for outside investigation. There are plenty of solutions if you're actually interested in those.

[Neonmoon 38130]

People in lower socioeconomic classes are more likely inclined to do [insert bad thing]

In the US, Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be in a lower socioeconomic class than whites/Asians 

If 1 + 1 = 2, then Blacks and a Hispanics are more likely to [insert bad statistic masked under racism]

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Asians need to be suspended more.  Blacks less.  Mexicans are suspended at about the right rate.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[Beau Vine 54471]

5 hours ago, JBJ said:

The teachers and admins know who just slipped up, who is an actual cause for concern, and which punishment each student will respond to.

If you were on the football team at my highschool, the teachers didn't bother with referrals; they told the head coach.  That's when you were really fucked.

That's a bingo.

[TKthunder2 5005]

5 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

From the linked story:

 

 

The story still just generalizes.  Odds are that someone 10 minutes tardy will get off with a warning while someone an hour tardy will get written up.  Same with dress code, big difference than a girl’s skirt being a little to short and another with her ass cheeks hanging out.  Both infractions are classified the same but punishment is going to be wildly different between the two.  Not saying there is not a problem but this report isn’t really proof of anything other than statistic can tell an ugly story with little to no evidence.

[TwiceHorn 31624]

Reading the actual report, many of the disparities seem to be attributable to "one adminstrator" at each of the schools in question for each of the types of offenses discussed (and probably the same adminstrator across the offenses).  So it may well be that there is some intentional discrimination going on.  It would be interesting to know the race of the various "one administrators."

[Helobious 9467]

*Kind of off topic* I know that Fort Bend is super diverse with a couple of the highest performing high schools in the state. I see that the district is about a quarter Asian. 

This might sound ignorant but having never spent any time there, what's the predominant Asian group? Indians, Chinese, Filipinos (insert Hank Hill), Laotians?

[Mez2 4027]

FB Austin, holla. We had a lot of white people there, so this hits in the same zip code

[Nivek 17001]

Really need to see the color of their slacks.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

I worked for the guy in the pic (super) for 7 years before we both went to different districts. He was always aware of issues like this and did not skirt the topic. Tough conversations were had internally. My current district is even more sensitive to race issues and discipline. It’s a complicated topic that encompasses:

1. Zero tolerance policies vs letting admins make decisions. Pendulum swinging towards admin making decisions other than for certain offenses such as drugs or guns at school. 

2. Vast majority of teachers are white, even in black schools. These people are largely not racist and want the best for their students. But there are challenges with this dynamic and implicit bias. Black teachers are often more hard on the black kids but they also handle it in their classroom. This means it doesn’t show up in discipline statistics.

3. The behavior of the kids. Too big of an issue for this post because there are so many societal factors. Money, culture, parental expectations, societal expectations, messages that kids hear, overall view of authority figures and ambitions after high school all impact behavior.

4. Class size. The best possible thing that teachers and administrators can do when they have a kid that could go either way behaviorally or academically is to build a relationship with the kid and family. I go into each year with a list of about 10 kids that I am going to get to know well and offer my support to. It really helps prevent issues and avoid referrals when things come up. It’s hard to do that if you are a teacher with 32 kids in a class and you have 6 or 7 classes.

[DanRydell 799]

You see the same shit with juvenile detention. Gardner Betts is full of black and Hispanic kids locked up for crimes that get white kids a drive home and a finger wag to the parents.

[GSU&UT 1798]

9 hours ago, DanRydell said:

You see the same shit with juvenile detention. Gardner Betts is full of black and Hispanic kids locked up for crimes that get white kids a drive home and a finger wag to the parents.

Nah dude, didn't you read all these white Surly posters explaining otherwise? No subtle/subconscious racial problems exist in America, everything can be explained away. The only thing that is racist is when a white guy drops an n-bomb to a black dude's face.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Asian kids don't get in trouble at school.  Because they have two parent homes.  And their parents have high expectations, value education, and will not put up with bullshit.

[Mr. Drummond 2199]

15 hours ago, Helobious said:

*Kind of off topic* I know that Fort Bend is super diverse with a couple of the highest performing high schools in the state. I see that the district is about a quarter Asian. 

This might sound ignorant but having never spent any time there, what's the predominant Asian group? Indians, Chinese, Filipinos (insert Hank Hill), Laotians?

  

Indian/Pak/Chinese - generally speaking. At least at Clements and Austin. 

More viet in the poorer HSs 

My kids graduated from Austin, and i'm '86 Clements.     

Also, i got ISS for 3 days my senior year for forging blue slips for 1/2 the senior class.    I'm pretty sure if i would have been one of the blk / mexican kids (no longer zoned to CHS) my punishment would have been much harsher, seriously, i was caught with 5 blue pads in my locker, and had people in the offices that would pull the absence cards before hitting the system.  I had quite the system that i ran for 2 years.   

I should have monetized that crap. 

 

[Bash Riprock 1695]

OP is the biggest racist

[bularry1 23]

23 hours ago, You don't know me said:

I got ISS twice during my senior year at Clements (circa 1986-87) and I am white.  I am now pissed that I didn't get a strongly worded note in my 'permanent record'.  Where was my f'n white privilege?  Who do I need to contact?

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Drummond said:

  

Indian/Pak/Chinese - generally speaking. At least at Clements and Austin. 

 

 

agree based on when my kids were at Clements.  Indian descent probably no 1 with Chinese 2 and Pak 3.  

[atomheartbevo 89859]

On 8/8/2018 at 1:02 PM, DaysOff said:

John Foster Dulles in the house

Viking 4 Life bitches.  

Clements girls were stuck up, but easy.

[RollLeft 5045]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:58 PM, Mez2 said:

FB Austin, holla. We had a lot of white people there, so this hits in the same zip code

A good friend graduated there in 2005.  

[Mez2 4027]

'98 here, middle brother '02 and youngest brother '08

[Mez2 4027]

On 8/10/2018 at 11:24 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Viking 4 Life bitches.  

Clements girls were stuck up, but easy.

This is true, I married one

[texasjacket 289]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:38 PM, TKthunder2 said:

The story still just generalizes.  Odds are that someone 10 minutes tardy will get off with a warning while someone an hour tardy will get written up.  Same with dress code, big difference than a girl’s skirt being a little to short and another with her ass cheeks hanging out.  Both infractions are classified the same but punishment is going to be wildly different between the two.  Not saying there is not a problem but this report isn’t really proof of anything other than statistic can tell an ugly story with little to no evidence.

60%  of the time, statistics are right every time