Time to Jack with the Red Oaks

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,397]

Two trees (maybe a third). I've always had pretty good luck with trees by not doing anything to them. Two in the back yard need a little attention (I suspect)

First a fifteen foot Red Oak. Looks a little peaked, Got fairly dark green this summer, but didn't grow all that much. I tried to keep it watered. Seems to have a bark problem from some kind of mysterious incident that took place in its past.

So to make up for years of neglect, what do I need to do to turn this into the most awesome tree in the neighborhood? A cheap surface fertilizer seems in order. I hate that fucking metal rim around the base and if you can give me a good reason to get rid of it, consider it done. Also, do I need to do anything to that scar at the base? VAseline? Suntan oil? Bondo? Debark that outer shell?

Then there's the sister tree (or trees), that almost didn't make it a freeze or two ago. The main tree died, but seems some of the, for lack of a better word, "offshoots" are going pretty strong, but need a trimming. How high up should I go. Also, some of the smaller limbs shoot way out. Seems they need to be cut back as well. Big question, when is the best time to do this?

What about that sub-offshoot, coming out of offshoot #1 about 8" off the ground? Could look pretty cool someday?

Thanks in advance for any advice I might get on this (assuming it doesn't involve sticking the trees where the sun don't shine)!

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

1 hour ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

that almost didn't make it a freeze or two ago.

There's your bark problem. Trees might take years to fully express the damage from severe weather. Combine drought with the cold and it's even tougher on them. 

But, those two are not that bad off. You can clean up the scar but do your best to not cut into new wood. Trim it up however you want. Taking the little branch is a good idea because that's a weak spot. The angles are not strong. Ten years from now when it has a lot more weight up to that's where it's liable to snap off in a big wind.

There is a strong consensus on exposing the root flare. 

https://southernbotanical.com/the-benchmark/root-flare-exposure/

https://neilsperry.com/2022/06/two-extremes-of-root-flare/

https://blog.dallasarboretum.org/gardening-tips-trees-gardening-root-flare/

Feel free to get rid of the metal ring. I'm willing to bet that it's about rusted out anyhow. 

 

It's kinda late in the year to fertilize. I'd try to find something heavy on iron and manganese. It's usually sold as a micronutrient blend. Hit it next spring/ late winter. 

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

Oh yeah one more thing. If it makes you feel better you can spray the shit out of the exposed wood with a pyrethrin group insecticide now and drench with an imidacloprid next spring when you feed it. Neem oil can be used instead of pyrethroids and can be used over the entire tree in the winter with some extra emphasis on the wound.

[miguelito 11,266]

Good stuff, cactus, even if I almost failed chemistry 301 and 302.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

C Hopkins cafe managed by mine cousin Mo Clyde 

Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus, Potassium. Nitrogen, Sulfur, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Boron, Manganese, Copper, Zinc, Molybdenum, Chlorine 

Mnemonic ftw

[miguelito 11,266]

I would have needed a lot more help than that, lol. But you know what they say, "D for degree."

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,397]

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for, but I've got some questions, in no particular order:

1. "...Taking the little branch is a good idea" Do you mean the smallest of the three offshoots (8" off the ground)? Makes sense, but to be clear, you're not talking about larger branch to its left which could also be leaning a few years from now. Maybe I'll need to take steps to keep it going straight up? Seems like that would look kind of cool, or does it present problems down the road?

2. Check my game plan. Gonna spray the trunks of both with Neem Oil. Will replace the steel rims with landscaping stone (and maybe enlarge the perimeter a bit). Then I'll expose a bit more of the root flare and fill in area with a shallow layer of cedar mulch. What about wood chips instead? Also will chop off whatever you suggest in question 1 above.

3. Can I do the trimming right now?

 

 

Edited October 7 by Irish Wrist Watch

[High Plains Drifter 11,050]

 

@Irish Wrist Watch

I'd wait to trim until the leaves drop. 

Also, in your second pic, I'd cut both of those branches that join near the soil and go to the left completely off. Keep the main trunk. You probably want a "tree" and not a "bush". But wait for winter. 

 

However I'd also defer to @cactusflinthead, he seems to know more what he's talking about. 

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

Missed the reply. I'll have more later on this morning.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

Take these two. Concur on waiting until winter. 

Trading stone for steel is fine. Root flare exposure also good. Bark nuggets good too.

You can try to pull it more straight, but it's going to be a long process. It might revert back to it's comfort zone as soon as you unstake it.

 

[Hagbard Celine 10,903]

On 10/6/2024 at 4:23 PM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Two trees (maybe a third). I've always had pretty good luck with trees by not doing anything to them. Two in the back yard need a little attention (I suspect)

First a fifteen foot Red Oak. Looks a little peaked, Got fairly dark green this summer, but didn't grow all that much. I tried to keep it watered. Seems to have a bark problem from some kind of mysterious incident that took place in its past.

 

this is sun scald - in red oaks it happens when it is not re-planted in the original compass orientation as when it emerged from seed

mix up some Neil Sperry Tree Trunk Goop: equal parts natural diatomaceous earth, compost and soft rock phosphate mixed with water, and slather over the wound:

[Hagbard Celine 10,903]

do not wait until winter - trim now

the 18-inch stump was ..... chosen poorly

it should have been clear cut at the ground

too late now - if you don't have a chainsaw find someone who does and make a 75-degree angle cut then cover the exposed wood with the tree goop and keep it covered

in 5 years it will get absorbed in to the main trunk

the 2 offshoots should be cut like this:

then everything below the red V comes off - you are diverting the growth power of the root system sideways - this is why the upper stalks are long and gangly

note the red rectangle - that's cross-growth - unsustainable as the branch it is attached to becomes heavy - and then in an ice storm can take down everything below it

look for cross-growth AND duplication especially in the yellow zone - pick winners and losers that will have space to expand and are growing up and out at 30-45 degrees from the branch - 2 branches growing the same direction 2 inches apart - pick one

losers: duplication, cross-growth, branches growing "backwards" toward the main trunk, sucker-growth on the main trunk - if it is not going to be a primary branch clean it off every 3 months and finally anything that's not growing sideways or up

winners: symmetrical, sideways, up, forward - let all of this stay for now no matter how tall/long/spindly - in 2 years you will then begin to shape for the 25-year target; also if you find sucker growth on the main trunk that is where you would want a branch to be - LEAVE IT - you will have the infant branch a year from now when you divert the growth power 100% to winning wood

the tree will fill in as it fills out - give it the help it needs to send all of it's growth power in a symmetrical out/up pattern

you should have started 3 years ago but you can recover

finally - the tree ring at the ground - rip the grass out and dig out the roots in the white circle - go 6 inches down or until you find roots - i can tell you how to build a 50-year tree ring yourself or have a landscaper do it but you have to get that grass off the root system - at least 5 feet diameter stone circle - then fill it with 6 inches dirt and 6 inches cedar mulch

[Hagbard Celine 10,903]

the sunscald tree: same bat time, same bat channel as above

and when you cut a major down-growth branch (there are 3 visible in this pic) - DO NOT CUT IT MIDWAY OR IN HALF - cut it with the 3-cut method at it's base, with either another branch or with the trunk - take it out entirely

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

Much better than I did.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,397]

Sorry for the delay. Didn't hear anything for a few weeks and the thread dropped off my radar. 

In no particular order. Talk about a detailed answer. Thanks. Would like to get these turned around.

Planted a couple of Red Oaks in Lost Creek back in the day and all I ever did to them was cut off lower branches - and they grew like crazy. Looked pretty good IIRC.  I want to say in ten years they grew to maybe 30' high. Suspect having good soil helps. Might be a bit of the problem here 70mi west.

That stump just broke off in my hand. Def will angle cut it. Thought I'd get it all done at one at once.

Did the base of one last weekend. Probably could have been a little larger. At least exposed a little root flare. Used some kind of porous black paper screen covered with Cedar Mulch to fill. Pulled out a bunch of grass. poisoned the rest. Hope the Round Up wasn't a mistake.

Definitely will make a larger "bed" around Tree number two (multi-branch). Clean up instructions pretty straightforward. 

And, just to be clear, the concensus now is trim the small one now, don't wait, mainly due to all the cross growth? Should I wait on the taller tree?

FWIW, I did not know that the grass roots were bad for the tree roots. So they don't die if they can't get any sunlight?

Thanks for all the advice! Go Horns!