Ohio State @ Oregon

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

42 minutes ago, Muny_Tex said:

If that "12 men on field" is not a dead ball / clock reset penalty....then what is to stop an enterprising DC from literally putting ~20 dudes into the secondary right at the snap if opposition has a "XX and Long",  dwindling clock, and an obvious deep passing situation.....seems like the 5-6 seconds of elapsed clock is well worth the benign 5 yard (meaningless) penalty.....what am I missing here?

Missing that the QB should just spike it in that situation, most likely.

[Surly Bevo 25501]

If a coach ran 20 guys out there intentionally his team would get hit with an unsportsmanlike conduct 15-yard penalty, second time would be an ejection.  It's a broad penalty refs can apply for a variety of reasons

https://www.collegefootballspectator.com/unsportsmanlikeconduct.html

[Huckleberry 33519]

It also doesn't make any sense because the half doesn't end on a defensive penalty. At some point you're going to have to defend a play with 11. Letting them get 5 yards closer on purpose doesn't seem like a great strategy.

[Pimphand 6048]

I like rooting for Dillon Gabriel even though he was a dirty filthy Sooner.

Him beating Ohio State after we kicked OU's tooth in was the chefs kiss

Edited October 13 by Pimphand

[Drew 2658]

Agreed. 

[BornOrange 1441]

3 hours ago, BurgleBro said:

Do we want a piece of Dillon Gabriel to get revenge?

I don't want a piece of him, I want the whole thing.

 

[South Austin 52686]

[MNLonghornFUKM 8916]

10 hours ago, Drew said:

Lots of dumb QBs the last few weeks. Mostly in contenders. 
 

we could do much worse the Quinn. 

pretty cool having the top 2 QBs in the nation on 1 team considering the names this team has gone through for the last 14 years

[HenryJames 66275]

Definitely want the ball in Will Howard's hands at the end of the game.

[Jive Turkey 12722]

Warren Sharp seems to think Lanning intentionally put 12 men on the field in a “genius” coaching move.  He might be giving him too much credit there.

 

[Deej 77161]

10 hours ago, TexasMan said:

Just another reason to root against this asshole 

 

 

Is it possible for Ohio State to be embarrassed by anything?

[Incredulity 11686]

Anyone who has watched Lanning bumblefuck his way through the last 3 Oregon/Wash games knows thats compete bullshit.

 

edit**in response to the braingenius 12 men theory.

Edited October 13 by Incredulity

[HenryJames 66275]

Dude ending the game like @immamac ending a tailgate.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8916]

Dude ending the game like [mention=397]immamac[/mention] ending a tailgate.

Buddy forgot it was 3rd and 20 lol

[shadow_operative2.0 16058]

Quote

No. 2 Oregon had 12 men on the field late its 32-31 win over No. 4 Ohio State, with the resulting penalty causing precious seconds to wind off the clock.

Turns out, it was on purpose. 

"We spend an inordinate amount of time on situations and some situations don't come up very often in college football, but this was obviously something we had worked on," Oregon coach Dan Lanning said Monday night. "You can see the result." 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41802259/dan-lanning-says-ducks-purposely-induced-12-men-penalty-late

[CurlyDumps 4538]

On the Yahoo CFB podcast, one of the reporters (Pat Forde?) shared an anecdote about being in an elevator with some Oregon coaches after the game. Said they were still shaking their heads about the 12 men penalty as if it was a fuckup and definitely not intentional. 

[DixonHur 11596]

So Lanning is a cheating bastard ...who could have guessed.

Fuck him and fuck Nike U.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

So Lanning is a cheating bastard ...who could have guessed.

Fuck him and fuck Nike U.

I think it’s much more likely that he’s just trying to pass it off as a plan and not a fuckup. 

[TOR 5836]

Watching the replay it sure didn't look like a plan, looked like a cluster fuck.   Also from the replay, tOSU looked to have size like the Longhorns but not the speed at every position.  And their offense is incredibly predictable on the ground.  Their long game seems to be predicated on making circus hail mary catches to save drives.  Ducks have speed just about everywhere but not the size to push people around.  Texas beats them both by about tree fiddy.

[DixonHur 11596]

1 hour ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I think it’s much more likely that he’s just trying to pass it off as a plan and not a fuckup. 

Maybe, but that's even dumber.  Why would you cop to breaking a rule like that on purpose?  If it happens again by accident he could be penalized 15 yards now that he's openly said he did it on purpose.

So, either he's an idiot for having 12 men on the field after a time out, or he's an idiot for admitting to knowingly cheating when he didn't knowingly cheat.  Either way, not a great look.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Maybe, but that's even dumber.  Why would you cop to breaking a rule like that on purpose?  If it happens again by accident he could be penalized 15 yards now that he's openly said he did it on purpose.

So, either he's an idiot for having 12 men on the field after a time out, or he's an idiot for admitting to knowingly cheating when he didn't knowingly cheat.  Either way, not a great look.

So you don’t look like a dumbass. 

“Could” doing a lot of work in a scenario with a vanishingly small chance to reoccur. 

When either way is not a great look, I’d opt for the one that didn’t make me look like a dumbass. Which is what it looks like Lanning chose, as well. 

[DixonHur 11596]

1 hour ago, TOR said:

Watching the replay it sure didn't look like a plan, looked like a cluster fuck.   Also from the replay, tOSU looked to have size like the Longhorns but not the speed at every position.  And their offense is incredibly predictable on the ground.  Their long game seems to be predicated on making circus hail mary catches to save drives.  Ducks have speed just about everywhere but not the size to push people around.  Texas beats them both by about tree fiddy.

After hearing his explanation and rewatching the play, it did kinda look planned.  With all the pointing by the DBs and coach basically pushing the player on the field, it's like they wanted to refs to see the new guy, so they were sure to call it.

4 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

So you don’t look like a dumbass. 

“Could” doing a lot of work in a scenario with a vanishingly small chance to reoccur. 

When either way is not a great look, I’d opt for the one that didn’t make me look like a dumbass. Which is what it looks like Lanning chose, as well. 

He looks like a dumbass either way.  But I'd argue there is not a small chance for that situation to occur.  Those last second drills happen a lot, and if you can take 40% of the time off the clock, basically taking the game from 2 plays to 1, it's a smart move.  Underhanded and unfair, but smart as longs as you don't get caught.  But bragging about it is not smart.  

Oregon won the game, so just deny, deny, deny.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

After hearing his explanation and rewatching the play, it did kinda look planned.  With all the pointing by the DBs and coach basically pushing the player on the field, it's like they wanted to refs to see the new guy, so they were sure to call it.

He looks like a dumbass either way.  But I'd argue there is not a small chance for that situation to occur.  Those last second drills happen a lot, and if you can take 40% of the time off the clock, basically taking the game from 2 plays to 1, it's a smart move.  Underhanded and unfair, but smart as longs as you don't get caught.  But bragging about it is not smart.  

Oregon won the game, so just deny, deny, deny.

Why would he want them to call it?

[DixonHur 11596]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Why would he want them to call it?

To run 4 seconds off the clock

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

To run 4 seconds off the clock

ROFL. The four seconds come off the clock whether they call the penalty or not. 

[HtownHorn 14915]

I don't think Howard even knew they ran another DB on the field right before the snap. It looked like the formation was set up to get Smith a 1-1 matchup to the field with the thought being he was going to get 10-12 yards to set up a long FG. Lanning doing that intentionally seems rather risky in case Ohio State ran off the final 10 seconds before they were able to call their final TO. It worked out because the throw was late and Muhammad made a good play on the ball.

[DixonHur 11596]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

ROFL. The four seconds come off the clock whether they call the penalty or not. 

Yes, but the chances of a completion go down considerably when you have 12 defenders.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Yes, but the chances of a completion go down considerably when you have 12 defenders.

Yeah, exactly. THAT is why you have the 12 guys, not to get them to call the penalty. I mean, ideally in that situation you want the stop and no penalty. There’s no scenario in which you want to make an effort to get the penalty seen. You’re gambling that the extra guy prevents a play longer than the penalty yardage. 

Edited October 15 by Doc Daneeka

[Not a cat 5736]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Yes, but the chances of a completion go down considerably when you have 12 defenders.

Correct.  But the success of the plan doesn't hinge on you getting called, that's just a 5 yard penalty you're willing to take in exchange for wasting a few seconds.  Even better for you if it's not called, so why bring attention to it?

[someguy 1512]

DD is correct.  The upside to the defense is getting the advantage that 12 vs. 11 provides.  Ordinarily it isn't an advantage because it gets flagged and you give up 5 yards and repeat the down.  With only 10 seconds left, however, the replay of the down and the cost of only 5 yards pales in comparison to the burning of time.  So, by playing 12 against 11, you force the offense into a play where they are at a disadvantage (11 against 12) while at the same time burning precious time.  If you can do that without getting called for a penalty - that's great.  Even if you do get called for the penalty, then you gladly exchange the 5 yards for the time burned (because they do not put the time back on the clock.  There is really no scenario where the defense would proactively be looking to definitively get flagged though.

[DixonHur 11596]

2 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Yeah, exactly. THAT is why you have the 12 guys, not to get them to call the penalty. I mean, ideally in that situation you want the stop and no penalty. There’s no scenario in which you want to make an effort to get the penalty seen. 

I'd want the penalty so play stops and allows you me to substitute more easily after the expected incompletion.  Without the penalty tOSU could have dictated the tempo.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

I'd want the penalty so play stops and allows you me to substitute more easily after the expected incompletion.  Without the penalty tOSU could have dictated the tempo.

Ah. I thought you said it was because of the four seconds. I guess now it was to stop play. I wonder what it will be next. 

[DixonHur 11596]

2 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Ah. I thought you said it was because of the four seconds. I guess now it was to stop play. I wonder what it will be next. 

Yeah, god forbid there are multiple reasons.  

Putting 12 men on the field is about lowering the chances of a successful play, thereby lessening the time on the clock.  Getting the penalty is about prepping for the next play.  It's really not that complicated.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Yeah, god forbid there are multiple reasons.  

Putting 12 men on the field is about lowering the chances of a successful play, thereby lessening the time on the clock.  Getting the penalty is about prepping for the next play.  It's really not that complicated.

Maybe it just seems complicated when someone drips out the reasons one at a time as each previous one makes less sense. 

[Huckleberry 33519]

45 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

After hearing his explanation and rewatching the play, it did kinda look planned.  With all the pointing by the DBs and coach basically pushing the player on the field, it's like they wanted to refs to see the new guy, so they were sure to call it.

That's even dumber. Having 12 men on the field and not getting called for it is always better than getting called for it. 

He said late. 

Edited October 15 by Huckleberry

[chainsaw 9998]

Fuck ohio state.

[shadow_operative2.0 16058]

Well, it was fun while it lasted. 

Quote

The NCAA is closing the loophole used by Oregon to shave time off the game clock at the end of Saturday's win over Ohio State.

In a release Wednesday, the NCAA issued a new rules interpretation on how to handle a penalty for 12 players on the field in the final two minutes of either half. If the defense has 12 players actively participate in the down, the offense can choose, along with the 5-yard penalty, to have the game clock reset to the time that had been displayed at the snap.

No time change would be made if there were 12 players but one of them was attempting to leave the field and did not affect the play. 

---- 

Just before the ball was snapped, Oregon defensive back Dontae Manning walked onto the field, giving the Ducks an extra defender. Ohio State failed to complete a pass against Oregon's 12-man defense, and the Ducks were flagged for an illegal substitution penalty, surrendering 5 yards but also taking four seconds off the clock. A scramble by Ohio State quarterback Will Howard on the next play ended the game.

Such a ploy will no longer work going forward, as NCAA football secretary-rules editor Steve Shaw said in a statement that they were looking to "take away any gain for the defense" from committing an intentional penalty.

"Football is a very dynamic game," Shaw said. "Occasionally there are specific situations where committing a penalty can give a team an advantage. A guiding principle of the NCAA Football Rules Committee is that there should be no benefit when a team commits a penalty." 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41832824/ncaa-issues-interpretation-restore-12-man-penalty

Edited October 16 by shadow_operative2.0

[0xdeadbeef 1653]

What rule is that an 'interpretation' of?  That just sounds like an entirely new rule.

I was not aware that refs had a pile of 'interpretations' that aren't actually in the rule book.   Are these published somewhere?

 

Edited October 16 by 0xdeadbeef

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

“Football is a very dynamic game," Shaw said. "Occasionally there are specific situations where committing a penalty can give a team an advantage. A guiding principle of the NCAA Football Rules Committee is that there should be no benefit when a team commits a penalty.”
 

Like, say, intentional pass interference on a play more than 15 yards downfield?

[0xdeadbeef 1653]

54 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

What rule is that an 'interpretation' of?  That just sounds like an entirely new rule.

I was not aware that refs had a pile of 'interpretations' that aren't actually in the rule book.   Are these published somewhere?

 

Turns out, the 4th page of the official NCAA Football rule book has this as a title:

2024 NCAA® FOOTBALL RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS

https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4705-2024-ncaa-football-rules-book-online-only.aspx

Learn something new every day.  

[Funk Doctor Spock 12793]

On 10/12/2024 at 9:51 PM, F250 said:

Oregon and Ohio State look like top 3 teams in CFB.

They also look like they would get destroyed by Texas.