The danger of Hugo's Russia derangement syndrome

[RomaVicta 29775]

19 minutes ago, HaroldBS said:

Favorable rating =/= believe his every lie instead of their own eyes

I don't make that deduction. Polls have been done separately to establish his base's refusal to believe verified facts in order to believe Trump.  From an NBC News poll. I'm sure there are others.

Quote

While 76 percent of Republicans believe Trump tells the truth all or most of the time, 22 percent say he tells the truth only some of the time or less. Among such Republicans, over half of them (56 percent) still approve of his work as president.

 

[F250 28680]

1 hour ago, Mole said:

I assume everyone arguing about things unrelated to the paper mentioned in the OP actually read the paper and are just engaging in some meta form of satire.

 

 

[Buzzrock 14870]

It’s pretty amusing.
I suppose chemical plants should be allowed to dump toxic waste in our drinking water and be unhindered from government regulation  because  “free market!”  Those authoritarian laws that protect people from harm are so oppressive.

You’re just mad you didn’t start this thread.

[Buzzrock 14870]

Hey dumbass, it has been shown that droves of people who normally don't vote at all came out to vote for Trump, not people switching parties.

Here’s the article I read on the subject earlier today. It’s important to distinguish between “we don’t know that the Russians influenced the election” and “we know that the Russians did not influence the election”. The only thing that the IC has definitively said is that they tried. But the line that stood out to me was that 9/10 Republicans voted for Trump, and 9/10 Democrats voted for Clinton.

https://psmag.com/news/what-we-dont-know-about-russian-interference-in-the-2016-election

[Buzzrock 14870]

Here’s another interesting article from Wired that asserts that, wrt to Facebook, the Russian attempts to influence via social media weren’t nearly as successful as Trump’s own gaming of the system:

https://www.wired.com/story/how-trump-conquered-facebookwithout-russian-ads/

[Guest]

I read the article in the OP.  My assumption is that all of us users posting on a message board in which we don't use our real names would unanimously be against these measures (which include mandating that platforms authenticate user identities) and that we are all generally against the government inhibiting our existent 1st amendment free speech rights as currently understood and practiced online and elsewhere.  Are we all in agreement on this or would some of you like to give away our current free speech rights and rights to anonymity out of fear and a strong desire to not let Russian college drop outs manipulate American white trash (or whatever the substitute term we have for white trash this month) via the internet?

[Anastasis 23393]

30 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

I read the article in the OP.  My assumption is that all of us users posting on a message board in which we don't use our real names would unanimously be against these measures (which include mandating that platforms authenticate user identities) and that we are all generally against the government inhibiting our existent 1st amendment free speech rights as currently understood and practiced online and elsewhere.  Are we all in agreement on this or would some of you like to give away our current free speech rights and rights to anonymity out of fear and a strong desire to not let Russian college drop outs manipulate American white trash (or whatever the substitute term we have for white trash this month) via the internet?

But they hate us for our freedom, bro! 

[Monster 219]

12 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Somebody posts a meme of Jesus arm wrestling Satan on the Internet.

 

The American Republic and Democracy is brought to it's knees.

 

 If posting facebook memes is voter manipulation--if that's what we're talking about here---not ballot fraud...then maybe the problem isn't the Russians, or social media...maybe its our education system.  Maybe we are paying the price for not teaching people to think for themselves.   I'm starting to think we're blaming the Russians, because we don't want to admit we (or a lot of us+ our electoral college) elected a known asshole/game-show host.  TheRussiansDidThis.gif

We're still talking about fake articles and memes right?  Not voter/ballot fraud, right? 

Also think the military-industrial complex are ready for another US-Russia cold war because cold wars print money.    

Edited August 10, 2018 by Monster

[triplehorn 2664]

This is about way more than memes and stupid people. 

It's about generating scientifically tested psychotypes, appealing to unconscious emotional processes, and repeatedly incorporating false information and propaganda tailored to individuals on a mass scale to grossly alter the perceptions and responses of millions of citizens for a predictable outcome.  It's similar to people not giving informed consent to be manipulated as a test subject in weapons grade psy-ops program.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

This is about way more than memes and stupid people. 

It's about generating scientifically tested psychotypes, appealing to unconscious emotional processes, and repeatedly incorporating false information and propaganda tailored to individuals on a mass scale to grossly alter the perceptions and responses of millions of citizens for a predictable outcome.  It's similar to people not giving informed consent to be manipulated as a test subject in weapons grade psy-ops program.

 

More simply stated as ‘pulling one over on the rubes’...

[Mole 4320]

The paper linked in the article strikes a much more balanced tone than the article presents. It presents a compelling case that something needs to be done. It then walks through various approaches and presents why it might be needed as well as discusses the potential problems. I think it's worth a read. Here's the link: https://graphics.axios.com/pdf/PlatformPolicyPaper.pdf

And yes, it's memes and fake articles, but used in an alarmingly sophisticated way. When computers can easily fake videos, things will get even worse. We're approaching the postmodern lack of objective reality becoming the objective reality.

Better education could improve our collective ability to recognize this stuff, but we can't have deep knowledge about everything. The obvious nonsense might be "pulling one over on the rubes" but there's no reason that we all can't be pulled in by this stuff. The news is so fast-moving that it's hard to keep up.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

Thanks for the heads-up, but I'll take my chances with the Hugo's derangement over the imminent danger that Russia actually poses.  DOTUS and the GOP's (note to self, possible band name) relationship with Russia is an existential threat to our nation as we know it.  To pretend otherwise is itself deranged, disingenuous, or both.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

This is about way more than memes and stupid people. 

It's about generating scientifically tested psychotypes, appealing to unconscious emotional processes, and repeatedly incorporating false information and propaganda tailored to individuals on a mass scale to grossly alter the perceptions and responses of millions of citizens for a predictable outcome.  It's similar to people not giving informed consent to be manipulated as a test subject in weapons grade psy-ops program.

 

It's true.  They've got the personal notebooks & manuscripts of Franz Mesmer & Josef Mengele and numerous other inkblot tests and LSD experiments and KGB tactics and Cossack Cavalry maneuvers and with these methods they can tailor make weapons grade psy-ops messages specifically for each & every American's genotype and phenotype and blood type.  They put this weapons grade tailored messages in easy to spot poor English posts on social media.  We are dealing with Russian genius ubermensch.  There is simply no way we can stand up to this foreign onslaught and still form our own beliefs & opinions.  Of course you are somehow able to resist their weapons grade psychological warfare.  And so am I, miraculously.  And probably also most every other poster on this website.    And probably the majority of the people you know in real life.  And also our own American PR machines are somehow far more skilled in every facet at persuading the US public than the Russians could ever be.  And there is also the irony that the only reason we are even talking about this subject is because American media filters have selected and allowed it and American PR machines are pushing it.  But I admit, those Russians did probably have an influence greater than 0, so I think the reasonable solution is to relinquish our individual free speech rights over to the American state to protect us.  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Are you conflating the right of free speech (which doesn't exist in Russia) with some sort of right to anonymous speech?

[Buzzrock 14870]

More simply stated as ‘pulling one over on the rubes’...

For real. Go check out some of the ads. They targeted the dumbest on both sides.

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606]

@maninblackyou don't seem to understand that the only reason the rights we all enjoy are because of the men and women who wear the uniforms of the United States Armed Services. My brothers and sisters have no desire to infringe upon your rights, but instead to ensure that no one else can. We stand firm in our charge to defend the United States Constitution and the People of the United States. By your willingness to seek out that which you are not legally authorized to have access to, YOU are adding to the problem that makes it evermore difficult for our mission to be achieved. The quote "A stitch in time saves nine" has never been more apparent than it is now. The U.S. Armed Forces are apolitical for a reason. Our commitment is to the Constitution and the people of the US.

[Buzzrock 14870]

Who should have stopped the Russian meddling in the 2016 election? How should they have done it?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

33 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Who should have stopped the Russian meddling in the 2016 election? How should they have done it?

Everyone failed in 2016, all of us. The media, the intelligence community, Obama, Congress, big tech, and everyday citizens...especially the ones that didn’t vote.

First, Russia wasn’t going to be stopped but much more should have been done to contain it.  I linked this article for you before, not sure you read it. It’s one of the best pieces of journalism I’ve read over the past two years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.b1dbcf4cb351

Yes it’s Wapo, and it concludes the Obama administration’s approach to Russia in 2016 was a huge failure.

IMO Obama should have ignored Trump’s false rhetoric and done what was right, he should have exposed Russia’s entire operation in real time while it was happening.  He should have forcefully repudiated Putin in public. 

The FBI was also asleep at the wheel, dropped the ball on Trump, and played into Putin’s hands with the email investigation. 

The media was also doing the Kremlin’s work by never ending coverage of Hillary’s bullshit emails.  When they weren’t putting Hillary’s shit on blast by propagating emails stolen by Russia, it was all eyes on the Kremlin candidate because ratings.  The media should have been doing more investigating instead of standing in front of a Trump rally with a microphone. 

The social media platforms did not give a shit about what Russia was doing until they got exposed by a whistleblower with pink hair.  They actively tried to conceal from the public the role they played in subverting American democracy and we probably still don’t have the whole story from Facebook. And it’s not just Facebook, a shitload of what I call “subversion profiteers” were in on the disinformation feeding frenzy too.

And finally, WE, the electorate failed for our inability to defend ourselves from the most significant state sponsored attack on the American people since Pearl Harbor.  We didn’t seek to be informed on the things that should matter to us.  We got distracted by a complete circus on television and the internet that was the 2016 election.

Putin was the ringmaster dictating much of what we would see and when we would see it in the news and in our social media feeds.

Everyone failed because we weren’t good enough at our jobs as citizens.  We didn’t do our duty.

The solution: Be better Americans.

 

[Huckleberry 32694]

Of course you are somehow able to resist their weapons grade psychological warfare.  And so am I, miraculously.

I wouldn't be so certain of that second part. Someone who wants desperately to be or seem intelligent but who when in debates is only able to regurgitate thoughts they read somewhere else versus providing their own analysis is the perfect target.

Being well-read in some cases leads to longer posts with a bigger vocabulary. But cutting and pasting someone else's words to take the place of formulating an original thought is the direct ancestor of forwarding a meme when it comes to political discussion.

[formermav43 4599]

44 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

 

I wouldn't be so certain of that second part. Someone who wants desperately to be or seem intelligent but who when in debates is only able to regurgitate thoughts they read somewhere else versus providing their own analysis is the perfect target.

Being well-read in some cases leads to longer posts with a bigger vocabulary. But cutting and pasting someone else's words to take the place of formulating an original thought is the direct ancestor of forwarding a meme when it comes to political discussion.

 

This, on the other hand, seems like the direct ancestor to the troll.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

18 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

The answer is obvious to anyonee with a brain. Which sadly excludes most people plstimg here.

I just noticed this.  The jokes, they continue to write themselves.

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

21 hours ago, Anastasis said:

How do we regulate being a country full of fucking idiots?

Abortion. 

[bernorange 8348]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

... When they weren’t putting Hillary’s shit on blast by propagating emails stolen by Russia, ...

Guccifer (Romanian hacker) hacked Sidney Blumenthal's email account and first revealed to the public that HRC was using a private email account.

The wikileaks dump of campaign emails from HRC's private email server have not, AFAIK, ever had a definitive source established.  Wikileaks claim the source to be someone inside the DNC.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/14/craig-murray-says-source-of-hillary-clinton-campai/

 

[Huckleberry 32694]

34 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

This, on the other hand, seems like the direct ancestor to the troll.

If you consider calling out someone's posting style trolling, then so be it.

[Anastasis 23393]

22 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

21 hours ago, Anastasis said:

How do we regulate being a country full of fucking idiots?

Abortion. 

Margaret, is that you?

[jimmyjazz 45546]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Margaret, is that you?

Sanger, I hardly know her!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

I wouldn't be so certain of that second part. Someone who wants desperately to be or seem intelligent but who when in debates is only able to regurgitate thoughts they read somewhere else versus providing their own analysis is the perfect target.

Being well-read in some cases leads to longer posts with a bigger vocabulary. But cutting and pasting someone else's words to take the place of formulating an original thought is the direct ancestor of forwarding a meme when it comes to political discussion.

 

I haven't copy and pasted anything in this thread.  In other discussions (which of course you haven't referenced and you didn't engage any of the accused tactics at the time, which would be the direct and honest and non-spineless approach) I will copy and paste statements to support my points and cite whatever I am quoting, which is the typical method of attempted diligent discourse.  You may be surprised to find that most every article in academic journals contains cited quotes; it may also surprise you to know that these quotes are actually other people's words and they were probably copy and pasted with a computer.  It's quite the scandal.

 

[formermav43 4599]

27 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If you consider calling out someone's posting style trolling, then so be it.

When it’s off-topic, ignores the context of the posts it alludes to, is intended to provoke him, and is in response to a post that directly contradicts the supposed characteristics of his posting style? Well, yeah.

It’s merely a seemingly more intelligent, well-read troll.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

46 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Guccifer (Romanian hacker) hacked Sidney Blumenthal's email account and first revealed to the public that HRC was using a private email account.

The wikileaks dump of campaign emails from HRC's private email server have not, AFAIK, ever had a definitive source established.  Wikileaks claim the source to be someone inside the DNC.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/14/craig-murray-says-source-of-hillary-clinton-campai/

 

And this matters how?

Considering https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download

What narrative are you seeing that I’m not seeing?

[Monster 219]

9 hours ago, triplehorn said:

This is about way more than memes and stupid people. 

It's about generating scientifically tested psychotypes, appealing to unconscious emotional processes, and repeatedly incorporating false information and propaganda tailored to individuals on a mass scale to grossly alter the perceptions and responses of millions of citizens for a predictable outcome.  It's similar to people not giving informed consent to be manipulated as a test subject in weapons grade psy-ops program.

 

By this definition, TV commercials are psy-ops.  CNN/Foxnews is doing psy-ops.  ALL political campaigns are psy-ops.   Churches/Synagogues/Mosques are doing psy-ops.  Movies/tv shows are often engage in subtle, even artistic, psy-ops. Message board arguers are doing psy-ops. 

Anywhere there is a medium for public speaking, someone is trying to get you to believe something...sometimes with the intent to make the world a better place, but mostly for personal gain.   

Assuming our world doesn't get completely destroyed, or irreversibly poisoned, during the next 2+ years, I think talking about 'fake news' is actually be a good thing, despite the orange man crying about it, being an integral part of the fake news problem. 

If it gets people to think twice about the messages they're getting from their tv/social media stream, and we survive the next 2+ years, I think its a net gain.   

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Monster

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

15 minutes ago, Monster said:

TV commercials are psy-ops.  CNN/Foxnews is doing psy-ops.  Political campaigns are psy-ops.   Churches/Synagogues/Mosques are doing psy-ops.  Message board arguers are doing psy-ops.  Movies/tv shows are often engage in subtle, even artistic, psy-ops. 

Anywhere there is a medium for public speaking, someone is trying to get you to believe something...sometimes for the benefit of mankind, but mostly for personal gain.   

Assuming our world doesn't get completely destroyed, or irreversibly poisoned, during the next 2+ years, I think talking about 'fake news' is actually be a good thing, despite the orange man crying about it being an integral part of the fake news problem. 

If it gets people to think twice about the messages they're getting from their tv/social media stream, and we survive the next 2+ years, I think its a net gain.   

 

The danger with this is the truth can get lost and when that happens, it’s over.

Major media companies and politicians should be held to a higher standard to stick to facts. 

When the population is bombarded with falsehoods 24/7, the truth gets destroyed.

Without truth, there is no democracy, justice, or liberty for all.

[Mole 4320]

The most offensive part of the "fake news" discussion is the aesthetics of the term itself. It's ugly and doesn't accurately reflect what's going on. If we would actually learn to think critically about the media we consume, that would be a plus, but my guess is that most of this critical thinking will be guided in our media by ideological agendas rather than real self-examination.

[bernorange 8348]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And this matters how?

It's a simple matter of facts vs. propaganda - something that you purport to care about.  You have a habit of lacing your posts with such comments stated as fact.  As I said before, I'm not sure if it's simple ignorance or deliberate propaganda, but I thought I might point it out this time.  This is an example of what I'm talking about with respect to "your Russian derangement syndrome clouding your judgement on just about every political issue of the day."  If it turns out that the source of the HRC campaign emails was indeed some conscientious objector or Bernie bro inside the DNC, it matters a fuckton with respect to your (et al.)  clarion calls of Russian hysteria.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

16 minutes ago, bernorange said:

If it turns out that the source of the HRC campaign emails was indeed some conscientious objector or Bernie bro inside the DNC, it matters a fuckton with respect to your (

Did you just ignore the Mueller indictment explaining how the Russian government hacked into the DNC/DCCC and strategically disseminated the emails during the election? 

Or is that propaganda to you? 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you just ignore the Mueller indictment explaining how the Russian government hacked into the DNC/DCCC and strategically disseminated the emails during the election? 

Or is that propaganda to you? 

Yes.

[bernorange 8348]

I have not had time to read through it.  Has any hard evidence been found/publicly released, or is it all allegations? 

[Monster 219]

28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The danger with this is the truth can get lost and when that happens, it’s over.

Major media companies and politicians should be held to a higher standard to stick to facts. 

When the population is bombarded with falsehoods 24/7, the truth gets destroyed.

Without truth, there is no democracy, justice, or liberty for all.

I'd argue that 'populations being bombarded with falsehoods' has been going on for a very, very long time...

I'd offer, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that populations have been bombarded with falsehoods since the first time a group of humanoids gathered around a fire, trying to decide what 'the community' should do next.  

Human beings will always lie to get what they want and 'the truth' is often a matter of perspective.  Has our 'public forum' become more pervasive?  Almost inescapably so.  Again, I'm just glad we're having this conversation and that people are learning to consider the possibility that maybe, sometimes, media companies and politicians might not be giving you the full, unadorned truth.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Monster

[jimmyjazz 45546]

14 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I have not had time to read through it.  Has any hard evidence been found/publicly released, or is it all allegations? 

Good Christ.  It's an ongoing investigation.  It's not an expose in the NYT or WaPo.  (Fake news!)

[bernorange 8348]

@jimmyjazz - An indictment would seem to indicate that an investigation had concluded or at least sufficient evidence had been discovered (assuming the indictment was done in good faith).  I haven't read through the document Hugo linked, I just skimmed the first couple of pages for now.  I'm not aware of any reporting anywhere that evidence had surfaced definitively identifying the source of the wikileaks dumps, but if it exists and Craig Murray and Julian Assange lied about the source not being Russia, I'd be genuinely interested to learn about it.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

15 minutes ago, bernorange said:

@jimmyjazz - An indictment would seem to indicate that an investigation had concluded or at least sufficient evidence had been discovered (assuming the indictment was done in good faith).  I haven't read through the document Hugo linked, I just skimmed the first couple of pages for now.  I'm not aware of any reporting anywhere that evidence had surfaced definitively identifying the source of the wikileaks dumps, but if it exists and Craig Murray and Julian Assange lied about the source not being Russia, I'd be genuinely interested to learn about it.

My point is that the indictment should be taken at face value.  It's not proof, but presumably is backed by a certain degree of confidence in whatever evidence has been amassed.  We're not going to be privy to that evidence until trial or plea bargain (and maybe not even then).  

I don't actually mind the skepticism, but outside of the fringe, I would think most thinking persons would at least acknowledge that Mueller is a meticulous, thorough attorney/investigator who should not be expected to file frivolous charges.

[JBJ 3648]

Guccifer and Guccifer 2.0 aren't the same.

Guccifer is a person who hacked Blumenthal (he had previously done other high-profile hacks as well) which lead to Clinton's emails and knowledge of her private server.

Guccifer 2.0 is a front for a Russian group (allegedly, I suppose) who hacked the DNC which led to multiple perverse media-ties and the anti-Bernie stance at the DNC.

[tantric superman 4667]

35 minutes ago, Mole said:

The most offensive part of the "fake news" discussion is the aesthetics of the term itself. It's ugly and doesn't accurately reflect what's going on. If we would actually learn to think critically about the media we consume, that would be a plus, but my guess is that most of this critical thinking will be guided in our media by ideological agendas rather than real self-examination. 

If I actually thought critically about the mole dishes I consume, that would be a plus. Put most of my "critical thinking" is based on a desire to be a real Mexican, rather than real examination of the few places that don't screw up mole.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Organization 1 in the indictment is WikiLeaks 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russia-email-hacking-charges-wikileaks-20180715-story,amp.html

[triplehorn 2664]

10 hours ago, Aphelion said:

It's true.  They've got the personal notebooks & manuscripts of Franz Mesmer & Josef Mengele and numerous other inkblot tests and LSD experiments and KGB tactics and Cossack Cavalry maneuvers and with these methods they can tailor make weapons grade psy-ops messages specifically for each & every American's genotype and phenotype and blood type.  They put this weapons grade tailored messages in easy to spot poor English posts on social media.  We are dealing with Russian genius ubermensch.  There is simply no way we can stand up to this foreign onslaught and still form our own beliefs & opinions.  Of course you are somehow able to resist their weapons grade psychological warfare.  And so am I, miraculously.  And probably also most every other poster on this website.    And probably the majority of the people you know in real life.  And also our own American PR machines are somehow far more skilled in every facet at persuading the US public than the Russians could ever be.  And there is also the irony that the only reason we are even talking about this subject is because American media filters have selected and allowed it and American PR machines are pushing it.  But I admit, those Russians did probably have an influence greater than 0, so I think the reasonable solution is to relinquish our individual free speech rights over to the American state to protect us.  

Appropriate Franz Mesmer reference is appropriate.  Mesmer was a physician who provided the initial foundation for observing and understanding the function of the human Unconscious through phenomenology associated with hypnosis (mesmerized).  Another Viennese physician and neurologist, Sigmund Freud, who also studied hypnosis, later advanced observation and practice of unconscious phenomenology by developing the psychoanalytic process.  Freud found that insight into one's unconscious while lucid offered lasting resolution of unconsciously mediated symptoms. 

Referencing Josef Mengele is just a reminder that science and technology in the hands of people who don't respect it can be used for great harm.

I had Dan Gilbert as prof in an undergrad social psychology course at UT.  Gilbert has enjoyed significant recognition for his work and later went on to teach at Harvard and over the years used his expertise for private sector consultation.  Day 1: "By the end of this course, I will demonstrate to you that you don't know why you do the things you do."  For his purposes, he succeeded in that.  There are various ways of appealing to the unconscious, individually and en masse, and there is a large variety of goals that can be used for good or bad outcomes depending on your perspective.  That too was made evident

My initial response simply pointed out that what happened was not a function of memes and stupid people.  What happened in our election goes beyond the umbrella term psychological operations.  It involves matters related to theft, conspiracy with a hostile foreign govt, and complex, dynamic, and willfully disruptive disinformation operations uniquely tailored to individuals through personal social media platforms. 

There's room for discussion in there about lines that should or should not be crossed to preserve the intended due process of a democratic election for the people.

Edited August 10, 2018 by triplehorn

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Appropriate Franz Mesmer reference is appropriate.  Mesmer was a physician who provided the initial foundation for observing and understanding the function of the human Unconscious through phenomenology associated with hypnosis (mesmerized).  Another Viennese physician and neurologist, Sigmund Freud, who also studied hypnosis, later advanced observation and practice of unconscious phenomenology by developing the psychoanalytic process.  Freud found that insight into one's unconscious while lucid offered lasting resolution of unconsciously mediated symptoms. 

Referencing Josef Mengele is just a reminder that science and technology in the hands of people who don't respect it can be used for great harm.

I had Dan Gilbert as prof in an undergrad social psychology course at UT.  Gilbert has enjoyed significant recognition for his work and later went on to teach at Harvard and over the years used his expertise for private sector consultation.  Day 1: "By the end of this course, I will demonstrate to you that you don't know why you do the things you do."  For his purposes, he succeeded in that.  There are various ways of appealing to the unconscious, individually and en masse, and there is a large variety of goals that can be used for good or bad outcomes depending on your perspective.  That too was made evident

My initial response simply pointed out that what happened was not a function of memes and stupid people.  What happened in our election goes beyond the umbrella term psychological operations.  It involves matters related to theft, conspiracy with a hostile foreign govt, and complex, dynamic, and willfully disruptive disinformation operations uniquely tailored to individuals through personal social media platforms. 

There's room for discussion in there about lines that should or should not be crossed to preserve the intended due process of a democratic election for the people.

Our society is filled with messages based on psychological analysis & studies, the intent of which is to persuade or motivate the public to some specific action.  We call them "advertisements," and Americans are the world leaders in constructing effective ad campaigns and we have by far the most powerful PR machines on the planet.  And beyond advertisements, more subtle influencing messages are also proliferated via various other US controlled media.  Virtually all the media we consume is owned and controlled by US organizations. 

The idea that the Russians are employing some new special super powerful methods and tactics that Americans are not typically exposed to or that the Russians even come close to the level of influence of our own media and PR machines is nonsense.  We are exposed to far more effective persuasion methods and tactics on a daily basis through numerous types of media.   To give an example of their influence, referring to the Russians as employing  "scientifically tested psychotypes, appealing to unconscious emotional processes, and repeatedly incorporating false information and propaganda tailored to individuals on a mass scale to grossly alter the perceptions and responses of millions of citizens for a predictable outcome.  It's similar to people not giving informed consent to be manipulated as a test subject in weapons grade psy-ops program" is scare tactic rhetoric that is currently being pushed by certain American PR machines.  This is verified by the fact that virtually everything posted by our resident daily spammer is US developed overt fear-based political propaganda.

[ndawg 1242]

Wow, did you just equate Russia nudging our country towards authoritarianism with Lexus ads? That's a new low for false equivalency, and here I was thinking we'd hit rock bottom.

[triplehorn 2664]

no shit.

[American Swindle 102]

On 8/9/2018 at 9:28 AM, tantric superman said:

The internets gave stupid people a forum they never had before and they gave them inroads into what was previously space that I controlled.    They are in my face.

I'm still thinking the free market will fix this problem.  It's my responsibility to police the media I expose myself to.

1)Block out media outlets that don't try to provide accurate information.

2) Remember to counter your own biases by finding at least one "counter" forum you trust or can tolerate.

3) Limit your daily intake of current news to some reasonable amount less than an hour a day.

Moderation is key and takes discipline, which is what freedom is all about.  It seems a lot of people on this forum trust our state overlords to regulate and do the right thing.  The state is the locus of sociopathic and narcissistic behavior and I for one DESPISE narcissists that think they have the solutions to everyone's everyday lives.  

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Wow, did you just equate Russia nudging our country towards authoritarianism with Lexus ads? That's a new low for false equivalency, and here I was thinking we'd hit rock bottom.

 

23 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

no shit.

Did you two scholars know that that term "ad" in "political ad" is an abbreviation for "advertisement"?  You may also be surprised to learn that there is a whole industry built around what is known as "campaign advertising" and PR organizations work in this field and develop persuasive messages for politicians.  I know it sounds crazy, but the PR industry does more than just try to sell you cars.  

Edited August 10, 2018 by Guest

[ndawg 1242]

16 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

 

Did you two scholars know that that term "ad" in "political ad" is an abbreviation for "advertisement"?

Yeah, that would be the whole fucking point of my reply, now wouldn't it?