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JMFP

By JMFP
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Hairy Biped

Hairy Biped 585

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Looks pretty cool.  I've been wondering why more EVs aren't built to look and feel more traditional.  Most electrics are ugly and stupid looking, and drive like you're flying a spaceship or some stupid futuristic bullshit.  These are a lot better looking.  I still have my doubts about offroad uses for electrics though.  I talked to a Jeep guy who has a one of those Jeep Wrangler electrics and he said that it's the most useless car he has ever owned.  Getting it dirty fucks up all of the sensors on it and it's not operable when the wrong sensors aren't working.  That said, I haven't off-roaded my mostly analog 2002 Wrangler in at least 5 years.  But I definitely like where their going with this.

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F250

F250 28761

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I was driving next to a Lucid Air on the highway yesterday and I must say it looked slick. I tried to get a closer look but that fucker was flying down the highway like a god damn jet.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17521

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1 hour ago, Hairy Biped said:

Looks pretty cool.  I've been wondering why more EVs aren't built to look and feel more traditional.  Most electrics are ugly and stupid looking, and drive like you're flying a spaceship or some stupid futuristic bullshit.  These are a lot better looking.  I still have my doubts about offroad uses for electrics though.  I talked to a Jeep guy who has a one of those Jeep Wrangler electrics and he said that it's the most useless car he has ever owned.  Getting it dirty fucks up all of the sensors on it and it's not operable when the wrong sensors aren't working.  That said, I haven't off-roaded my mostly analog 2002 Wrangler in at least 5 years.  But I definitely like where their going with this.

Electric motors provide loads of torque instantly with the ability to control each motor very granularly to ensure traffic. They are inherently superior to the ICE for off road usage. Whether existing designs leverage that capability fully is a different matter, but there is no doubt that electric motors are inherently better suited for the task. 

EVs generally end up with similar shapes because they are trying to reduce drag and surface area given the energy density of batteries compared gas. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17521

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15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Except for the weight issue.

To be fair, I said electric motors. I didn't say anything about batteries. But yes, in certain conditions the weight of the batteries would be an issue. 

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Hairy Biped

Hairy Biped 585

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12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Electric motors provide loads of torque instantly with the ability to control each motor very granularly to ensure traffic. They are inherently superior to the ICE for off road usage. Whether existing designs leverage that capability fully is a different matter, but there is no doubt that electric motors are inherently better suited for the task. 

EVs generally end up with similar shapes because they are trying to reduce drag and surface area given the energy density of batteries compared gas. 

I'm well aware that electric motors provide more power.  My question is do they provide more durability and longevity.  The limited results that I've seen say no, for now.  Especially in non-ideal situations like off-roading.  It's not to say that it will continue down that path, but it seems like manufacturers are building these vehicle to fit a certain niche, and then making minor changes to appeal to drivers outside of that niche.  ICE vehicles are made to fit far more varied uses.  And from what I've seen while researching the topic, which is admittedly somewhat limited, electrics don't have longevity on their side.  For example, I haven't seen one of the original Tesla sports cars on the road in at least 7 or 8 years, maybe longer.  If I pay as much as the current EVs are priced, I expect a vehicle that will have a useful life of 20 or 25 years.  I've heard too many stories about people who've had them, that basically had to dispose of theirs after 5 or 6 years.  Right now I have a 2002 Jeep Wrangler and a 2008 Honda Accord, both with well over 200,000 miles, and they're still running like a champ.  If something breaks, I fix it and it keeps going.  Advances in technology haven't made either of them obsolete.  You can't really say that about electrics right now.  I know the technology will keep moving forward and probably change that, but for now, I'm dubious of all of these vehicles.  For me, efficiency and performance aren't the only concerns when it comes to purchasing a car.  But I still think that the Scouts and Rivions are really cool and totally get the appeal.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17521

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14 minutes ago, Hairy Biped said:

I'm well aware that electric motors provide more power.  My question is do they provide more durability and longevity.  The limited results that I've seen say no, for now.  Especially in non-ideal situations like off-roading.  It's not to say that it will continue down that path, but it seems like manufacturers are building these vehicle to fit a certain niche, and then making minor changes to appeal to drivers outside of that niche.  ICE vehicles are made to fit far more varied uses.  And from what I've seen while researching the topic, which is admittedly somewhat limited, electrics don't have longevity on their side.  For example, I haven't seen one of the original Tesla sports cars on the road in at least 7 or 8 years, maybe longer.  If I pay as much as the current EVs are priced, I expect a vehicle that will have a useful life of 20 or 25 years.  I've heard too many stories about people who've had them, that basically had to dispose of theirs after 5 or 6 years.  Right now I have a 2002 Jeep Wrangler and a 2008 Honda Accord, both with well over 200,000 miles, and they're still running like a champ.  If something breaks, I fix it and it keeps going.  Advances in technology haven't made either of them obsolete.  You can't really say that about electrics right now.  I know the technology will keep moving forward and probably change that, but for now, I'm dubious of all of these vehicles.  For me, efficiency and performance aren't the only concerns when it comes to purchasing a car.  But I still think that the Scouts and Rivions are really cool and totally get the appeal.

Electric motors are far simpler and more durable than an ICE. The motors simply do not break. From a wear and tear standpoint, there is simply less to break on an EV. You don't need a complicated transmission. You don't need physical shafts connecting the power plant to the wheels. You don't need belts, chains, spark plugs, or an alternator. What is the durability issue that you think exists?

As to the original Tesla Roadsters,

1) yes, they still exist.

2) But it was a small run production Lotus modification last manufactured in 2012. Like 2,000 of them were sold worldwide. Why would expect to see them at all?

The primary limit on EV lifespan is the battery. Vehicles like the Leaf that didn't have active battery management  systems struggled with lifetime battery issues. But that is a solved problem.  Plenty of Model S's with the original battery are out there with over 200,000 miles on them. 

Your stories of people throwing away a car at 6 years are almost certainly bullshit rumors designed to keep people afraid of change. While lemon vehicles certainly exist just as they do for ICE vehicles, the vast majority of vehicles don't have those issues. Unless of course you mean someone that simply traded in for a new vehicle at 6 years, then that is common for ICE vehicles too and has nothing to do with vehicle longevity and everything to do with consumer preference for new and shiny. 

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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Electric motors are far simpler and more durable than an ICE. The motors simply do not break. From a wear and tear standpoint, there is simply less to break on an EV. You don't need a complicated transmission. You don't need physical shafts connecting the power plant to the wheels. You don't need belts, chains, spark plugs, or an alternator. What is the durability issue that you think exists?

As to the original Tesla Roadsters,

1) yes, they still exist.

2) But it was a small run production Lotus modification last manufactured in 2012. Like 2,000 of them were sold worldwide. Why would expect to see them at all?

The primary limit on EV lifespan is the battery. Vehicles like the Leaf that didn't have active battery management  systems struggled with lifetime battery issues. But that is a solved problem.  Plenty of Model S's with the original battery are out there with over 200,000 miles on them. 

Your stories of people throwing away a car at 6 years are almost certainly bullshit rumors designed to keep people afraid of change. While lemon vehicles certainly exist just as they do for ICE vehicles, the vast majority of vehicles don't have those issues. Unless of course you mean someone that simply traded in for a new vehicle at 6 years, then that is common for ICE vehicles too and has nothing to do with vehicle longevity and everything to do with consumer preference for new and shiny. 

 

 

What is the range on a Rivian when pulling a camper?

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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

About tree fiddy.  Yards.

 

Basically, and it will cost about 1.5X the median annual household after tax income and will require chargers in places like Terlingua. It doesn't mean I wouldn't consider one (although Plug-in Hybrids would be more likely), but it will primarily be meant for driving the kids to soccer practice and picking up groceries. It isn't going to be sitting on ranches.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31434

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So, when they talk about solid axles and lockers, my first thought is why would you need those in an electric 4WD with short axles driven by their own motors.  Lockers I guess I could see.  Electric vehicles use what, CV joints at each wheel?

Wonder what these things weigh?

Do like quite a few things about the design philosophy, though, particularly with respect to the interior. 

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Bevo

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22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, when they talk about solid axles and lockers, my first thought is why would you need those in an electric 4WD with short axles driven by their own motors.  Lockers I guess I could see.  Electric vehicles use what, CV joints at each wheel?

Wonder what these things weigh?

Do like quite a few things about the design philosophy, though, particularly with respect to the interior. 

 

Technology will soon lead to wheel hub motors and near wheel motors where there is no center axle and power to each wheel is computer controlled.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_hub_motor

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4974

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35 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Basically, and it will cost about 1.5X the median annual household after tax income and will require chargers in places like Terlingua. It doesn't mean I wouldn't consider one (although Plug-in Hybrids would be more likely), but it will primarily be meant for driving the kids to soccer practice and picking up groceries. It isn't going to be sitting on ranches.

My commute to work is like 25 miles, and our family land is about the same distance from where we live, so this would be perfect for most of the time. I would still need to keep my ICE truck for pulling, obviously. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17521

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30 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

My commute to work is like 25 miles, and our family land is about the same distance from where we live, so this would be perfect for most of the time. I would still need to keep my ICE truck for pulling, obviously. 

If towing longer distances is required for your use, current EVs aren't ideal. But 25 miles shouldn't be stopping you. The current F-150 lightning will get you 90+ even at max towing capacity. 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20929

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8 hours ago, F250 said:

I was driving next to a Lucid Air on the highway yesterday and I must say it looked slick. I tried to get a closer look but that fucker was flying down the highway like a god damn jet.

There’s one of these in town and I see it every time it goes by. Because it is fucking sexy.

 

is anyone making an electric minivan yet?

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17521

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10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

There’s one of these in town and I see it every time it goes by. Because it is fucking sexy.

 

is anyone making an electric minivan yet?

Closest to a full EV minivan is the VW Buzz that is finally actually coming to the US. 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/10/driving-the-2025-vw-id-buzz-was-worth-the-seven-year-wait/

I have the Pacifica Plugin Hybrid and it has been good for us. 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4974

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1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

If towing longer distances is required for your use, current EVs aren't ideal. But 25 miles shouldn't be stopping you. The current F-150 lightning will get you 90+ even at max towing capacity. 

No, but we take the camper up to Arkansas and Oklahoma. An electric truck would be perfect for hauling short distances, projects around the house, filling up deer feeders, etc. 

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mdmost

mdmost 42997

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Just saw an ad for Scout on Gameday. Looks great. Not sure about the Cabana roof. The front trunk and rear cargo should give you enough space. I like the 500 range gas/electric combo. I think if I were to go electric, I'd probably opt for something like that since we do an occasional far flung trip that would require not being stuck somewhere without a charger. 

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elfenix

elfenix 34221

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this thread should be in hobbies with the other vehicular threads

 

scout is really nice looking

 

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

is anyone making an electric minivan yet?

2020-tesla-model-x-123-656e3825810bc.thumb.png.cfe8db5cdde498e6f6e128cc11f8ae14.png

 

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

My commute to work is like 25 miles, and our family land is about the same distance from where we live, so this would be perfect for most of the time. I would still need to keep my ICE truck for pulling, obviously. 

for pulling far. just moving stuff that 25 miles an electric will work.

let's not pretend that mileage doesn't drop to 30% or 25% (or worse) when towing heavy with a gas engine either, so the real issue is charging speed and infrastructure.

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