The Internal Monologue

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

I saw a clip of the video below on Twitter a year or two ago, and was absolutely blown away that a significant portion of people do not have an internal monologue. After viewing it, I tried to think of a close friend that might "think" this way, an immediately thought of the wife of one of my best friends. I talked to him about it, and after some discussion within the family, he confirmed that his wife and teenage son do not have an internal monologue. My intention is not to be judgmental or negatively critical about it (shit, in many ways I'm jealous), but I think it can be an important revelation to understand people close to you or that you interact with on a consistent basis. My buddy and his wife have had typical marriage problems in the past, and I think this surprising fact has really helped them understand each other more and get in a better place relationship-wise.

Based on the limited information I've read, the most common traits of people without an internal monologue are: 

- In their dreams, people don't speak

- Anxiety/depression are manifested physically, as they don't have an inner voice that amplifies or creates it. 

- They see words/sentences when reading, but don't hear them.

 

I think this is an absolutely fascinating subject and I'm way more cognizant of it now. I think it can only be helpful if more people talked about it. 

[Celery Man 20,931]

[immamac 42,835]

Yeah this is fucking wild, so it's like visual with no audio? They can visualize stuff in their minds eye but have no voiceover or back and forth?

I guess from my perspective it would be really difficult to create an argument or position without being able to go over it mentally first and revise it. It sounds like this lady in particular just dictates her writing out loud then revises it once it's written. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

Yeah this is fucking wild, so it's like visual with no audio? They can visualize stuff in their minds eye but have no voiceover or back and forth?

I guess from my perspective it would be really difficult to create an argument or position without being able to go over it mentally first and revise it. It sounds like this lady in particular just dictates her writing out loud then revises it once it's written. 

I think this is right. 

The reason I immediately though of my friend's wife is because she never seems offended, never seems anxious, and she's constantly on the move.  Everything needs to explicitly be put in front of her in order to have a reaction or response. She's just not thinking about stuff in her head. And she's an intelligent, successful woman that started her own company. 

[Parliament 14,239]

Four out of four of Parliament’s ex wives agree with you.

[F250 28,764]

Yeah some don't have it and even for those that do it varies from person to person. There are some people who experience an inner monologue in some situations and not in others.

I once heard about a study on NPR that looked into clutch athletes that struggled to recognize their own voice when it was played back with other voices. The discussion was on how their inner monologue wasn't always present and kept them from being prone to self doubt in clutch moments.

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

17 minutes ago, F250 said:

Yeah some don't have it and even for those that do it varies from person to person. There are some people who experience an inner monologue in some situations and not in others.

I once heard about a study on NPR that looked into clutch athletes that struggled to recognize their own voice when it was played back with other voices. The discussion was on how their inner monologue wasn't always present and kept them from being prone to self doubt in clutch moments.

Makes sense. No doubt I would be a much better golfer if I didn't have an internal monologue, lol. 

 

 

Edited October 30 by Hank Kingsley

[Incredulity 11,650]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No doubt I would be a much better golfer if I didn't have an internal monologue, lol. 

I can always use another excuse for poor golf.

In all seriousness though, it sounds like this may be related to people who have a photographic memory.

[Brisketexan 105,057]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I can always use another excuse for poor golf.

In all seriousness though, it sounds like this may be related to people who have a photographic memory.

So, without watching a long video....what's the relationship? 

Because I have both (or at least elements of both).  I definitely have a detailed internal monologue - I speak things in my head, I remember voices perfectly, can pull up a song in my head, all of that, quite easily.  And I have a photographic memory (although it doesn't function as well as it used to...age has degraded it a bit).     When studying, I could truly pull up an image of the page of the text book and read what I needed during the test.  When I read a novel, I visualize the story (often with sound/verbalization included) as I read.  In other words, as I read Lonesome Dove, I had a whole movie playing out in my head that - if i had any artistic skill - I could have sketched out in detail.

My wife has a different memory, she uses different mnemonic devices to remember things, and it's really effective - just different.   Pretty sure my son's head works that way too.  My poor daughter...her brain works just like mine.  It can get....noisy and cluttered.

The funny thing is, I imagine for all of us, it's functionally impossible to imagine how other people do it.  I can't imagine how it would be NOT to have an internal monologue.

[F250 28,764]

11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Make sense. No doubt I would be a much better golfer if I didn't have an internal monologue, lol. 

 

 

Yes, golf, batting and pitching in baseball are sports where occasionally my brain would jump in uninvited and start talking too much.

I suspect Quinn might have a loud inner voice.

[F250 28,764]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, without watching a long video....what's the relationship? 

Because I have both (or at least elements of both).  I definitely have a detailed internal monologue - I speak things in my head, I remember voices perfectly, can pull up a song in my head, all of that, quite easily.  And I have a photographic memory (although it doesn't function as well as it used to...age has degraded it a bit).     When studying, I could truly pull up an image of the page of the text book and read what I needed during the test.  When I read a novel, I visualize the story (often with sound/verbalization included) as I read.  In other words, as I read Lonesome Dove, I had a whole movie playing out in my head that - if i had any artistic skill - I could have sketched out in detail.

My wife has a different memory, she uses different mnemonic devices to remember things, and it's really effective - just different.   Pretty sure my son's head works that way too.  My poor daughter...her brain works just like mine.  It can get....noisy and cluttered.

The funny thing is, I imagine for all of us, it's functionally impossible to imagine how other people do it.  I can't imagine how it would be NOT to have an internal monologue.

Lonesome Dove does play out like a movie in the head but I think that's because McMurty is an amazing writer.

I don't think photographic memory is a thing.

From what I recall,  inner vision is part of the inner monologue process. Some people are able to visualize things in their head more than others. Occasionally at work I will stop looking at people in technical meetings and stare at the wall and visualize what is being discussed. Sometimes,  I will even point at sections of a diagram that doesn't exist while describing logical architecture. I am also aware that it looks weird.

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

I feel like I can remember every face I've interacted with. But I have to be incredibly intentional to remember someone's name, even if they just introduced themselves one minute prior. Way too much going on in my head and a horrible habit I've had trouble kicking.  

 

[Bevo 13,563]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

I don't think photographic memory is a thing.

What do you mean? My dad could read a magazine and if you quoted something from it he could tell you what page it was on and where on the page it could be found. I have a friend who could take the boards and recall about 70% of the questions afterwards.

[F250 28,764]

4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

What do you mean? My dad could read a magazine and if you quoted something from it he could tell you what page it was on and where on the page it could be found. I have a friend who could take the boards and recall about 70% of the questions afterwards.

It might just be that people are able to visualize more internally but not actually recall mental photographic memories. I could be wrong but I don't think photographic memory is an actual thing.

[Incredulity 11,650]

39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, without watching a long video....what's the relationship? 

my non-expert interpretation of how she(from the video) describes how she reads sentences and how acquittances with alleged photographic memories describe their photographic memory.

She says she recognizes the shapes of sentence/words, but doesn't "read" them. 2:00 into the video

[Brisketexan 105,057]

21 minutes ago, F250 said:

I don't think photographic memory is a thing.

 

12 minutes ago, Bevo said:

What do you mean? My dad could read a magazine and if you quoted something from it he could tell you what page it was on and where on the page it could be found. I have a friend who could take the boards and recall about 70% of the questions afterwards.

Yeah....it's definitely a thing.  For most of my life, my memory functioned (and mostly still does) like your dad's.  Seriously, during exams, I could just recall the board, or a page of the book, and "read" the info I needed to get the answer.  I can describe places I've been in painstaking detail (like "there were this many tables, the chairs had curved backs, and at the table in the corner, they hadn't fully re-set it because one of the chairs was pulled out").  That ability has declined in recent years as my overall memory ability has declined, but it's still there to a large degree.

I also have synesthesia (as does my daughter), where different senses/ways of perception intersect.  For example, numbers have colors, and always have.  Funny enough, as I got older.....the colors changed. Wanna guess what to?  The fucking color of numbers on the balls on a pool table.  When I realized that, it made me chuckle.  When I was real little, numbers also had music that matched them. Just a few notes, but I knew and could hum the notes that went with the number 4 (that went away by late elementary school).

And like I mentioned....it makes for a cluttered, harried place in your head.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

In other words, as I read Lonesome Dove, I had a whole movie playing out in my head that - if i had any artistic skill - I could have sketched out in detail.

I can think of a few parts I’ve detailed in my head since the first day I picked it up…

[DigglerontheHoof 21,176]

Whatever is the opposite of a photographic memory is what my dumb ass has.  

[Brisketexan 105,057]

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

Whatever is the opposite of a photographic memory is what my dumb ass has.  

Actually, I've always liked to tell people I have a pornographic memory -- I remember everything just like everyone else does, except everyone is naked.

[F250 28,764]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Yeah....it's definitely a thing.  For most of my life, my memory functioned (and mostly still does) like your dad's.  Seriously, during exams, I could just recall the board, or a page of the book, and "read" the info I needed to get the answer.  I can describe places I've been in painstaking detail (like "there were this many tables, the chairs had curved backs, and at the table in the corner, they hadn't fully re-set it because one of the chairs was pulled out").  That ability has declined in recent years as my overall memory ability has declined, but it's still there to a large degree.

I also have synesthesia (as does my daughter), where different senses/ways of perception intersect.  For example, numbers have colors, and always have.  Funny enough, as I got older.....the colors changed. Wanna guess what to?  The fucking color of numbers on the balls on a pool table.  When I realized that, it made me chuckle.  When I was real little, numbers also had music that matched them. Just a few notes, but I knew and could hum the notes that went with the number 4 (that went away by late elementary school).

And like I mentioned....it makes for a cluttered, harried place in your head.

I meant I don't think it's recognized by the scientific community. I assume there are a lot of cognitive processes occurring that might make it seem like it's photographic memory but their are other explanations for what is occurring in your head. Granted, it's a really long time since I studied in this field so my information is likely out of date.

[Celery Man 20,931]

Reminds me of a radio lab from a million years ago about music 

 

 

[Samson's Wig 3,190]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Yeah....it's definitely a thing.  For most of my life, my memory functioned (and mostly still does) like your dad's.  Seriously, during exams, I could just recall the board, or a page of the book, and "read" the info I needed to get the answer.  I can describe places I've been in painstaking detail (like "there were this many tables, the chairs had curved backs, and at the table in the corner, they hadn't fully re-set it because one of the chairs was pulled out").  That ability has declined in recent years as my overall memory ability has declined, but it's still there to a large degree.

I also have synesthesia (as does my daughter), where different senses/ways of perception intersect.  For example, numbers have colors, and always have.  Funny enough, as I got older.....the colors changed. Wanna guess what to?  The fucking color of numbers on the balls on a pool table.  When I realized that, it made me chuckle.  When I was real little, numbers also had music that matched them. Just a few notes, but I knew and could hum the notes that went with the number 4 (that went away by late elementary school).

And like I mentioned....it makes for a cluttered, harried place in your head.

Fellow synesthete here. For me, it mostly involves visualizing time ias spacial (along with color), and that has not waned with age.  I also associate numbers with colors.  I do not, however, share your photographic memory.  My memory has always been good, but not that level. 

My neurospicy son has synesthesia as well, manifesting in lots of interesting ways.  It's incredible how differently people experience the world, yet we're all, at times,  a bit guilty of assuming everyone sees things the way we do (or at least not offering some grace for when they don't). 

[BrickHorn 18,216]

42 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Whatever is the opposite of a photographic memory is what my dumb ass has.  

I have a pornographic memory. 

[F250 28,764]

Just now, BrickHorn said:

I have a pornographic memory. 

[Brisketexan 105,057]

1 minute ago, Samson's Wig said:

It's incredible how differently people experience the world, yet we're all, at times,  a bit guilty of assuming everyone sees things the way we do (or at least not offering some grace for when they don't). 

QFMFT.  Incredibly well-said.  Every package of how we see the world comes with advantages and disadvantages.  As an adult with some experience and wisdom and scars, this cartoon (which is of course simplified for effect) rings true:

The way my memory/brain works suits me very well in certain contexts (I can think quick on my feet, can draw upon a diverse memory bank of resources, evidence, etc....so it really helps in my chosen career).  But it comes with downsides and shortcomings.  The way my wife's brain works suits her incredibly well in what she does, which is slower, more deliberate, and process-oriented.  Two different types of people living together for so long has forced us to have grace with each other.  She gets annoyed as hell with my fifth-gear anxiety, thinking ahead, visualizing all possible permutations and outcomes of every scenario (it often is a shitty way to go through life)....but she knows that's how I process information, so she is patient, and gives me space.  I get annoyed with her need to close the loop on any particular piece of information, and her insistence not to proceed until she gets that last piece of the puzzle (she is uncomfortable proceeding on what she sees as incomplete information).  So, I've learned to be patient, and to give her time and space to get that info. 

Thanks for posting what you posted.  Grace is important.  Some of us (me) are pretty shitty at it on a regular basis.

[Incredulity 11,650]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, I've always liked to tell people I have a pornographic memory

 

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I have a pornographic memory. 

 

[miguelito 11,254]

I have like 40 inner voices.

[Brisketexan 105,057]

1 minute ago, miguelito said:

I have like 40 inner voices.

But every one of them is telling you to jerk off to pictures of Bea Arthur.

[Wiler77 1,566]

My son was learning about inner voice vs outer voice in 3rd grade last year.  I think it was the school's attempt to get kids to not make fun of each other.

My wife and I were having a discussion about the difference to understand what his takeaway was, and to try to push it a little further than the school did.

He understood the concept fine, but he closed the conversation with something that is absolutely perfect if you knew him.

"My inner voice pretty much always says "DO IT! DO IT!'"

[Gatorubet 30,185]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Yeah....it's definitely a thing.  For most of my life, my memory functioned (and mostly still does) like your dad's.  Seriously, during exams, I could just recall the board, or a page of the book, and "read" the info I needed to get the answer.  I can describe places I've been in painstaking detail (like "there were this many tables, the chairs had curved backs, and at the table in the corner, they hadn't fully re-set it because one of the chairs was pulled out").  That ability has declined in recent years as my overall memory ability has declined, but it's still there to a large degree.

I also have synesthesia (as does my daughter), where different senses/ways of perception intersect.  For example, numbers have colors, and always have.  Funny enough, as I got older.....the colors changed. Wanna guess what to?  The fucking color of numbers on the balls on a pool table.  When I realized that, it made me chuckle.  When I was real little, numbers also had music that matched them. Just a few notes, but I knew and could hum the notes that went with the number 4 (that went away by late elementary school).

And like I mentioned....it makes for a cluttered, harried place in your head.

Burn the witch!!!

[Brisketexan 105,057]

8 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

My son was learning about inner voice vs outer voice in 3rd grade last year.  I think it was the school's attempt to get kids to not make fun of each other.

My wife and I were having a discussion about the difference to understand what his takeaway was, and to try to push it a little further than the school did.

He understood the concept fine, but he closed the conversation with something that is absolutely perfect if you knew him.

"My inner voice pretty much always says "DO IT! DO IT!'"

I mean, you already said he was a boy.  So....standard practice there.

[ClubWhatever 12,120]

No internal monologue is like being a mute fish

[DigglerontheHoof 21,176]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But every one of them is telling you to jerk off to pictures of Bea Arthur.

[Bevo 13,563]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Yeah....it's definitely a thing.  For most of my life, my memory functioned (and mostly still does) like your dad's.  Seriously, during exams, I could just recall the board, or a page of the book, and "read" the info I needed to get the answer.  I can describe places I've been in painstaking detail (like "there were this many tables, the chairs had curved backs, and at the table in the corner, they hadn't fully re-set it because one of the chairs was pulled out").  That ability has declined in recent years as my overall memory ability has declined, but it's still there to a large degree.

I also have synesthesia (as does my daughter), where different senses/ways of perception intersect.  For example, numbers have colors, and always have.  Funny enough, as I got older.....the colors changed. Wanna guess what to?  The fucking color of numbers on the balls on a pool table.  When I realized that, it made me chuckle.  When I was real little, numbers also had music that matched them. Just a few notes, but I knew and could hum the notes that went with the number 4 (that went away by late elementary school).

And like I mentioned....it makes for a cluttered, harried place in your head.

My buddy says that he taught himself his photographic memory. It may be true, but it probably isn't a coincidence that his sister was #1 in her class also. My friend used different color highlighters to highlight his notes and he had a process where he re-wrote all his notes and then used 4 different highlighters to highlight pretty much every single detail on the page. Then, when it came time for the test he could recall like you described.

I learned a totally different way - I would read lots of different books and be able to figure things out during the exam. It worked in most cases but in cases of pure memorization where the teacher used specific text from his lectures like soap bubble lesions or a lesion that looked like a bunch of grapes or a wolf in sheep's clothing you couldn't easily figure things out, you just need to know exactly what the lecturer said - for example in my head I couldn't tell you the difference between soap bubbles and bunches of grapes.

[Brisketexan 105,057]

4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

for example in my head I couldn't tell you the difference between soap bubbles and bunches of grapes.

Remind me to never allow you to pick out fruit for me.

[Ten Bears 2,480]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I feel like I can remember every face I've interacted with. But I have to be incredibly intentional to remember someone's name, even if they just introduced themselves one minute prior. Way too much going on in my head and a horrible habit I've had trouble kicking.  

 

The first thing I do when I learn a new name is to forget it. My mind races with "Why is he looking at me funny? Do I have food on my face? Squirrel!!!"

[Brisketexan 105,057]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I feel like I can remember every face I've interacted with. But I have to be incredibly intentional to remember someone's name, even if they just introduced themselves one minute prior.

Also me.  I had a friend in law school who knew everyone's name - she had a gift.  She'd tell me a story about someone by name, and I'd look at her all puzzled.  She'd then say "guy who wears a white ballcap, third row in Property class," and I'd know EXACLTY who she was talking about.  I could visualize him, his hat, exactly where he sat, etc.  All the visuals....but not the name.  I did a lot of "good to see you, chief" in law school.

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Also me.  I had a friend in law school who knew everyone's name - she had a gift.  She'd tell me a story about someone by name, and I'd look at her all puzzled.  She'd then say "guy who wears a white ballcap, third row in Property class," and I'd know EXACLTY who she was talking about.  I could visualize him, his hat, exactly where he sat, etc.  All the visuals....but not the name.  I did a lot of "good to see you, chief" in law school.

I feel like such a shitbag because it can come off as disrespectful. 

One time I ran into someone I hadn't seen in a while, didn't remember their name, and they called me out on it. I apologized and off the cuff said "Your face is who you are, your name was just something given to you." I think they took it as a compliment, which was the intention. 

 

[F250 28,764]

22 minutes ago, Ten Bears said:

The first thing I do when I learn a new name is to forget it. My mind races with "Why is he looking at me funny? Do I have food on my face? Squirrel!!!"

I have a friend that I met 15 years ago and I didn't know his name for the first year we knew each other. When we met I didn't think much of him and didn't bother to remember his name. To be fair it was a slow developing friendship.

After some time we started to hang out and I realized it would be a bad idea to ask his name. When I met his wife I kept listening to hear what she called him but she never used his name. The first time I called him by his name I didn't say it with confidence.

It was like the Mulva episode of Seinfeld.

 

[High Plains Drifter 11,026]

 

My mother was an incredible card player. She would have a black board in her head with everybody's name on it. Under each name, she would "write" what card they played, what card they picked up, etc. 

After a hand of spades, for instance, she would be able to you who played what card in each of the 13 rounds. 

I always told her she should go to Vegas and count cards. k\

[Hank Kingsley 20,904]

Saw another video where a guy without an internal monologue was asked if he gets songs stuck in his head. He said yes, but he only hears the instrumentation, not the voice or lyrics. 

[Deej 76,752]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

My mother was an incredible card player. She would have a black board in her head with everybody's name on it. Under each name, she would "write" what card they played, what card they picked up, etc. 

After a hand of spades, for instance, she would be able to you who played what card in each of the 13 rounds. 

I always told her she should go to Vegas and count cards. k\

Glad she didn't.

 

[Deej 76,752]

I'd like to be able to switch the inner monologuing on and off. 

[Herbie Hancock 7,344]

Is this the same as that little voice in your head that says “that’s not a good idea, don’t do that?”. Because I have a buddy from my younger days named Ed, and god bless him, Ed didn’t have that voice.

Fat girl at the bar trying to cockblock you from her hot friend? Ed was on it.
Power hour with Austin Nichols wild turkey? Ed was on it.
Piss on a cop car while the cop was sitting in it? I have just the man for you, and his name is Ed.

[mchookem 16,321]

this floors me. i literally had no idea there were people that didn't have to tell themselves

after spending hours inside their own head. wow. 😳

[HOOKEM4 5,036]

Honestly, this has to be a super power. I can't turn it off. Hell, shit that happened 20+ years ago keeps me up at night. Some inane conversation that nobody remembers I am cringing over as I try to sleep. Not fucking fair.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

QFMFT.  Incredibly well-said.  Every package of how we see the world comes with advantages and disadvantages.  As an adult with some experience and wisdom and scars, this cartoon (which is of course simplified for effect) rings true:

The way my memory/brain works suits me very well in certain contexts (I can think quick on my feet, can draw upon a diverse memory bank of resources, evidence, etc....so it really helps in my chosen career).  But it comes with downsides and shortcomings.  The way my wife's brain works suits her incredibly well in what she does, which is slower, more deliberate, and process-oriented.  Two different types of people living together for so long has forced us to have grace with each other.  She gets annoyed as hell with my fifth-gear anxiety, thinking ahead, visualizing all possible permutations and outcomes of every scenario (it often is a shitty way to go through life)....but she knows that's how I process information, so she is patient, and gives me space.  I get annoyed with her need to close the loop on any particular piece of information, and her insistence not to proceed until she gets that last piece of the puzzle (she is uncomfortable proceeding on what she sees as incomplete information).  So, I've learned to be patient, and to give her time and space to get that info. 

Thanks for posting what you posted.  Grace is important.  Some of us (me) are pretty shitty at it on a regular basis.

  Grace is important.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,176]

1 hour ago, HOOKEM4 said:

Honestly, this has to be a super power. I can't turn it off. Hell, shit that happened 20+ years ago keeps me up at night. Some inane conversation that nobody remembers I am cringing over as I try to sleep. Not fucking fair.

I'm the opposite of this, as well.  I have certain events I can remember from my childhood.  Some of them special, some bad but there are huge swaths of my life I have no memory of.  

I can only vaguely recall some of my birthdays growing up...maybe 5 or 6, and I know my parents always made a pretty big deal over our birthdays but I just can't remember them.  The same with all the sports I played. I probably played in over 70 football games and a similar number of motor-cross races growing up but have very few specific memories of the games or races. 

Many times when friends or family bring up things I don't remember, I can pull them back but there are many times someone will talk about times gone by and it's like I wasn't there. 

 

[bolverk 29,652]

I once asked my deaf-since-birth daughter about the inner monologue thing, whether she could "hear" a voice in her head. She was pretty emphatic that she could but couldn't explain it at all. She also said that both she and others in her dreams "speak" normally.

It's a really curious deal because ASL is her primary language. I was wondering if she "saw" hands signing in her head instead, but nope. She hears the inner monologue.

[miguelito 11,254]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

  Grace is important.

 

 

One of my voices told me to post that.