Blended Families and Inheritances

[statsman 5450]

This might be the right board for this topic. The WSJ had this article:

More American couples are coming together with children from prior relationships. It often goes well until it comes time to read the will.
https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/blended-family-estate-planning-352a9788?st=xxgDk9&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
 
It really is worth reading the comments, to see how many stories of blended families sundered by an estate going wholly to one side of a family. 

Over ten years ago, my wife came home from the neighborhood ladies get together and told me three stories of neighborhood widowers that remarried, and left their estate to their new wife (and eventually, her children) and not the widowers’ children. I laughed and asked if she was trying to tell me something. “Yes, you can’t do that to (our daughter)”!

it’s an interesting topic. I saw it in my family’s older generation. My great uncle Curtis had been married to my great Aunt Belle for almost 50 years. They had worked and sacrificed together to build a business. They had no children and doted on my aunts and uncles. Aunt Belle died and in short order, a lonely Uncle Curtis remarried. They were married for about five years when he died, she inherited and had nothing more to do with the family. Clearly, that’s Uncle Curtis’ decision to make (although Aunt Belle would have been truly pissed off had she known). I’m sure his second wife would say that she cared for him in his illness (true) and he would have wanted her cared for (also true). 
 
You can see how this happens, again and again. A marriage is broken, by death or divorce. Ex spouses remarry. They plan their estates in good faith, intending to distribute among step siblings. One dies, and the survivor’s step children just don’t come around as much, if at all (their other parent might be a higher priority, or maybe they just don’t feel as welcome). Meanwhile, the surviving spouse’s children are full and active members of their life,perhaps actively caring for them. Over time, the surviving spouse convinces themself that they can revisit the estate plan and make sure it goes to those that they know really need (and deserve) it (their children). Fact of life: no one will ever screw you over like someone that is convinced they’re doing the right thing. 
 
Moral? Get that shit planned and written down, locked down as much as the law will let you. 
 
I do wonder- these late-in-life second marriages,…how many would still happen if the spouse with savings had their estate willed to a trust and let the new paramour know that the will would not be revised or replaced?

Edited October 31 by statsman

[UTPhil2006 3801]

Sounds like a case for @hornian

[statsman 5450]

You see two types of tales:

1. “My dad died, and my stepmom took everything and put it in her name and is leaving it all to my step-siblings, her children”

2. “My stepchildren were never around and didn’t raise a finger to help, and not that their dad is dead, they come looking for an inheritance”. 
 
Why does this matter? Economists say that $80 trillion is to transfer over the next 20 years. There are 350 million Americans. That’s over $200k per American. Figure that 100 million Americans will be bequeathing and not inheriting, and that quite a few Americans won’t inherit anything, and you can see that there are some big stakes decision playing out. 

(statsman is in line to inherit low to mid six figures, and is in a family that talks openly about the will and its structure. However, I have a cousin who is going to be screwed in favor of her younger “second marriage” step-siblings. Although she has done very well in life, there is a part of it that is hurtful, to have never even been offered the help that her step siblings always had). 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13507]

I’ve always felt the concept of step-children and step-siblings are all based when people come into your life.  If you’re 50 when dad remarries and his new wife’s children are in their 40s, they’re not step children/siblings.  Now if dad remarries when you’re 22 and the younger kids are 8 and 10, then dad has a role in their upbringing and may consider them stepchildren.

for the scenario where dad remarries at 80, dies at 85 and leaves everything to the new wife and her kids, Dad’s an asshole at that point. And that can happen in the reverse as well. Leave everything to his kids and hope they assist his wife.  Get a lawyer and do it right.

[blacklab 11926]

Exact thing happened to me and my sister. My mom died at 51, my dad married a few times. His will gave everything to me and my sister upon his death. He got cancer that spread throughout his body and given a few months to live at 79. His wife convinces him to change will to leave everything to her and he does, my sister and I get nothing. It wasn't life changing money, probably only a few hundred thousand but it would have been nice to throw into the kids college fund or pay off my house. The thing that really pissed me off was there were a ton of tools I had bought in my teenage car fixing years that were at his house and I hadn't gotten around to getting. I went to the house a few days after his death and the garage was completely stripped of every tool by my step brothers.

At the funeral my step mom mentioned she'd still like to keep a relationship with my kids, which made me happy as they knew her as their grandmother. My kids went to see her multiple times and after setting up a date and time to meet we'd go to the house and someone I didn't know would answer the door, ask who we were, shut the door in our face, then come back a few minutes later to tell us she was out of town. I hope that cunt is dead and died in a fucking grease fire.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13507]

3 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Exact thing happened to me and my sister. My mom died at 51, my dad married a few times. His will gave everything to me and my sister upon his death. He got cancer that spread throughout his body and given a few months to live at 79. His wife convinces him to change will to leave everything to her and he does, my sister and I get nothing. It wasn't life changing money, probably only a few hundred thousand but it would have been nice to throw into the kids college fund or pay off my house. The thing that really pissed me off was there were a ton of tools I had bought in my teenage car fixing years that were at his house and I hadn't gotten around to getting. I went to the house a few days after his death and the garage was completely stripped of every tool by my step brothers.

At the funeral my step mom mentioned she'd still like to keep a relationship with my kids, which made me happy as they knew her as their grandmother. My kids went to see her multiple times and after setting up a date and time to meet we'd go to the house and someone I didn't know would answer the door, ask who we were, shut the door in our face, then come back a few minutes later to tell us she was out of town. I hope that cunt is dead and died in a fucking grease fire.

Give me rage reading your story. Sadly there are some bad people in life that can’t wait to take advantage of others.

 

[statsman 5450]

Examples of how money brings out the worst in people. Once they can find enough justification for themself (“I cared for him when I was sick”. “He wanted me to be taken care of. Those step kids won’t do it”.), there really is no limit to their actions. 
 
In these cases, is it not possible to leave everything in a trust, where defined income goes to the spouse until she dies, at which point it goes to the children?

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

My Dad remarried pretty quickly when my Mom died in her 60s.  The good news is that the woman he married was 4-5Xs wealthier than my Dad and had grown kids that I was friendly with.  They only went in jointly on their new main house and a lake house.  When she died, my Dad was able to buy out her half of the real estate from her kids and errybody went on their merry way.

[statsman 5450]

This guy seems to be doing it right. 
 
https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/jonathan-clements-personal-finance-cancer-e30d1396?st=85K72e&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

Two adult children from a prior marriage. New wife. He has a fatal cancer diagnosis. He is talking with them about his estate’s disposition and making as many moves of accounts as he can, now. 
 
One more perspective on the need to sort this out in advance: one of the most valuable things you can leave your heirs is a good relationship with each other. A transparent and upfront disposition of your estate is a good way to lay that foundation. 

Edited November 4 by statsman

[Parliament 14229]

Parent remarries late in life as old-age thinking starts creeping in.  New spouse convinces parent they don't love them if they don't "take care of them" after they die.  So parent changes will; gives it all to his new wife and dies.  New wife has her kids in her will.  Her kids get all your family heirlooms.

[statsman 5450]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Parent remarries late in life as old-age thinking starts creeping in.  New spouse convinces parent they don't love them if they don't "take care of them" after they die.  So parent changes will; gives it all to his new wife and dies.  New wife has her kids in her will.  Her kids get all your family heirlooms.

Yeah. When you are young and dating, the man’s career prospects are definitely part of the equation, even though the gal never comes out and says it. (Maybe this is why arranged marriages work out so well- that shit is discussed and understood). 
 
I’m guessing those discussions aren’t held late in life, either. The olds get remarried, without a discussion of estate plans, and after a few years, “Who will take care of me when you’re gone? I can’t get by on SS alone (true). I’m too old to re-enter the workforce (also true)”. There is crying and to end it, a new will is written leaving everything to the new spouse. 

[blacklab 11926]

It’s a tough and awkward discussion to have. The next time I saw my dad after getting the new will he was in the hospital. I asked him if that was really what he wanted or did the cunt pressure him into it. He said that’s what he wanted but he was definitely uncomfortable when he said it. I never mentioned it again. 
 

I dated a girl for a while who upon her grandparents death would split $1 million with her brother. She had cousins that weren’t in the will as they had not talked to their grandparents in 20 years. The cousins sued and won, getting an equal share. The four of them got $5000 each after the legal expenses were paid. This was running through my mind. 
 

When my mom died my dad got a sizable life insurance policy. That money was used to buy the house he lived in with cash, and was the source of most of the money in the bank when he died, so essentially cunt woman was the beneficiary of my mother’s death. 
 

With the previous will in place what I had planned to do on my dad’s death was to allow her to live in the house rent free till she died and supplement her income to keep her lifestyle the same. I do wish I had proposed this to my dad, but didn’t really want to get in any kind of fight. 

[Parliament 14229]

How does a cousin sue and get that money?  On what grounds?

And lol on it being $5k ($20k total?) after lawyers.  You burnt some relationships and called down some seriously bad karma on yourself.  All for the value of a uses Camry.

[statsman 5450]

I have a friend, a really kind and good natured guy, with an elderly father and stepmother. My friend and his two siblings are not untouched by life’s misfortunes, but have made the best lives they could, raising families and trying to plan for the future. The step-siblings, not so much. They are funded by his dad, who made some good investments earlier in life. 
 
My friend is saddened by the way his stepmother restricts his access to his father (his father shares complicity, and has noted as much), insisting on being present for conversations. 
 
Both are becoming frail. My friend knows that if his father dies first, the stepmother (bolstered by the thought, in her mind, that she is doing the right thing, taking care of the neediest) will make sure everything goes to her children. They need it more, see?

It wouldn’t take much to allow my friend and his siblings to retire earlier and more soundly, but it’s a coin toss as to whether it will happen. More than anything, he is worried about how this affects his understanding of his family relationships. 
 
This kind of story plays out again and again, and for the same reasons. It’s not like a newly remarried man will tell his new bride, “My savings aren’t going to be wasted on subsidizing your lazy ass kids.” (Although, maybe he should)

[Mr. Drummond 2198]

I paid for a good bit of my wife's Dad's funeral (food stuff mostly), only to find out later his new wife got him to give everything to her in the will and specifically call out my wife and her sister as people who would get nothing.  

It wasn't a lot of money, so whatever, but seeing in writing where he specifically called out her name and see his initials by it was pretty heartbreaking for my wife.  

We got sent a copy of the will with instructions from the attorney to sign a form saying that my wife acknowledges she is entitled to nothing.  

I just wrote back in black sharpie "Fuck you Linda"  

[statsman 5450]

1 hour ago, Mr. Drummond said:

I paid for a good bit of my wife's Dad's funeral (food stuff mostly), only to find out later his new wife got him to give everything to her in the will and specifically call out my wife and her sister as people who would get nothing.  

It wasn't a lot of money, so whatever, but seeing in writing where he specifically called out her name and see his initials by it was pretty heartbreaking for my wife.  

We got sent a copy of the will with instructions from the attorney to sign a form saying that my wife acknowledges she is entitled to nothing.  

I just wrote back in black sharpie "Fuck you Linda"  

Forgive me for opining, but to me, what sucks is that your wife would probably like to remember her father as a strong man that loved her (and that is probably what he would like her to think), but instead, she will remember him as the man who let his second wife take control of his life and relationships. 
 
Shit like that doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a lot of gradual manipulation 

Edited November 4 by statsman

[Mr. Drummond 2198]

8 minutes ago, statsman said:

Forgive me for opining, but to me, what sucks is that your wife would probably like to remember her father as a strong man that loved her (and that is probably what he would like her to think), but instead, she will remember him as the man who let his second wife take control of his life and relationships. 
 
Shit like that doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a lot of gradual manipulation 

She was surprised and hurt.   I was not surprised at all, he was a little bitch.  

[Snake Diggity 4619]

I have read a bit about The Great Wealth Transfer, it’s one of the top 4-5 things I think will define American society over the next 20 years.  I’ve already seen several people close to me have their lives significantly altered by being included or excluded in a will; these aren’t even rich people or people with rich relatives.  But even to a middle class person, a $100k+ windfall can be enormous.
 

For me, I just reslly really really hope everyone older than me who is close to me lives long enough and lavishly enough to die nearly penniless.  Money does crazy shit even to good people.  And even to people who don’t need or care about money, getting fucked over in an estate affects all the relationships involved.

[Chewbacca 7766]

On 10/31/2024 at 3:21 PM, blacklab said:

The thing that really pissed me off was there were a ton of tools I had bought in my teenage car fixing years that were at his house and I hadn't gotten around to getting. I went to the house a few days after his death and the garage was completely stripped of every tool by my step brothers.

Yeah, similar thing happened to my wife and BIL.  Their dad died and before his body was cold, step mom's family had ransacked the place, taking valuable guns and his precious metal collection. Several of the guns actually belonged to my BIL and his dad was storing them for him.  Never saw them again.  But since he died without a will, wife and BIL did get half of the house.

[tx 3 putt 76862]

i’ve seen many kids from wife #1 get screwed over by wife #2 after an unexpected death.

 

 

[Wally Fairway 5539]

On 10/31/2024 at 5:21 PM, blacklab said:

Exact thing happened to me and my sister. My mom died at 51, my dad married a few times. His will gave everything to me and my sister upon his death. He got cancer that spread throughout his body and given a few months to live at 79. His wife convinces him to change will to leave everything to her and he does, my sister and I get nothing. It wasn't life changing money, probably only a few hundred thousand but it would have been nice to throw into the kids college fund or pay off my house. The thing that really pissed me off was there were a ton of tools I had bought in my teenage car fixing years that were at his house and I hadn't gotten around to getting. I went to the house a few days after his death and the garage was completely stripped of every tool by my step brothers.

At the funeral my step mom mentioned she'd still like to keep a relationship with my kids, which made me happy as they knew her as their grandmother. My kids went to see her multiple times and after setting up a date and time to meet we'd go to the house and someone I didn't know would answer the door, ask who we were, shut the door in our face, then come back a few minutes later to tell us she was out of town. I hope that cunt is dead and died in a fucking grease fire.

You might want to move this thread/post to another more private spot: then you could release the Kraken. Just saying cat facts, and other remedies still exist. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13507]

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

i’ve seen many kids from wife #1 get screwed over by wife #2 after an unexpected death.

 

 

I understand why people feel screwed but the money was the deceased to do what they want with it.

An obvious option is for older men to find a new wife who has plenty of money on her own but in reality most of those women want nothing to do with marriage again. Then the old men only have options with women who don’t have much and are looking for a wealthier old guy.

if the estate is large enough, any kids and grandkids should work on dad putting a good chunk in a irrevocable trust prior to the new marriage. The new wife has less leverage prior to the marriage.

[Parliament 14229]

Or don't marry her.  

[statsman 5450]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I understand why people feel screwed but the money was the deceased to do what they want with it.

An obvious option is for older men to find a new wife who has plenty of money on her own but in reality most of those women want nothing to do with marriage again. Then the old men only have options with women who don’t have much and are looking for a wealthier old guy.

if the estate is large enough, any kids and grandkids should work on dad putting a good chunk in a irrevocable trust prior to the new marriage. The new wife has less leverage prior to the marriage.

Great points. It is the deceased’s assets; the problem is, it hurts to realize the deceased took better care of his stepchildren than his own children. That isn’t a good memory. 
 
Yes, it’s clear how this happens again and again. The later wife genuinely fears for her future. She genuinely cares more for her children than her stepchildren. That brings out the worst in them. Then you get shitty situations where one side is saying, “The bitch froze us out of our dad’s life” and the other side is saying, “It’s a good thing we are here to take care of him because his own children hardly come around”.
 
The key is discussing this before the later marriage, if they’re capable. A lot of people aren’t. Some families discuss money and some just don’t. A good way to broach the subject is, “Dad, I would like for you to be mindful in how you structure your affairs, so we can all have continuing good relationships after you pass. You want that, too, right?”

[Not a cat 5652]

On 10/31/2024 at 11:58 AM, statsman said:

 

I do wonder- these late-in-life second marriages,…how many would still happen if the spouse with savings had their estate willed to a trust and let the new paramour know that the will would not be revised or replaced?

I assume this question is rhetorical, but if not, the answer is "almost none'.

I worked at a stock brokerage and this happens all the time- elderly husband changes beneficiaries to new step mom (sorry, but it's always the stepmom), he dies soon thereafter and shit hits fan.  All we could tell the biological kids is to get a court order because we're gonna follow the beneficiary designation unless a court orders us not to.

 

[Reagan1k 3024]

This was a huge topic of conversation in our community some years back.  In fairly rapid succession, multiple estates were settled that involved 2nd wives, step-kids, biological kids, etc.

Really covered the gamut - 2nd wives disinherited by biological kids, biological kids disinherited by 2nd wives, long term care chewing up assets for everyone.....lawyers ending up with more than anyone.....Multiple estates, multiple outcomes - all bad and with a lot of heartache.

My wife was hot on the topic.  She's smart and realized she couldn't keep me from spending on a 2nd wife, nor did she want to punish someone who might make me happy after she's gone, but at the same time, she was adamant that our kids be protected and have something. 

She didn't want "her (our) kids' money all spent on my next wife's face lift and new tits" as she eloquently put it.

I told her "she's" already had those done and not to worry about it, which evidently wasn't as funny to her as it was in my head.

We had some fairly robust planning already, but she was so bothered by all this I finally took her to our attorney and sat arms folded and told him to draft something so she is happy enough that she'll quit talking about it.

After some time and some money well spent, she's content, and while nothing is perfect there's enough safeguards to cover everyone's interests.

Like everything else, communication and then taking action is the key.

[Parliament 14229]

Pics of new wife's new tits?

[boilerhorn 1371]

@statsman - wrong thread?

[statsman 5450]

Oops. Yep. I reported to moderators

Edited November 7 by statsman

[Archer 474]

My mom and stepdad got married when I was 8, he had two boys a few years older. They did their estate planning a few years ago and set up a trust for each of us, the trust are set to lock at the death of either of them. Hopefully that prevents any of the horror stories of a new spouse taking it all but I guess the survivor could empty the trust and give it away.