Surly Horns Official 🇺🇸 2024 Election Day 🇺🇸

[B00M 6413]

35 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

The Democrat party is one huge narcissistic circle jerk.  The first rule about that is that it is you and not them. So the autopsy of this election cycle will be someone else's fault. I am okay with them keeping that line of thinking.

The Democrat party is wildly attractive to people with mental illnesses, especially narcissists. All you have to look at is the core traits that make someone a narcissist.

1. No ability for self reflection. If they get a negative response, it's on the other person. Not them. They are perfect.

2. No ability for accountability. Ties in to #1.

3. Narcissists LOVE echo chambers. They have no ability to receive and process thoughts other than their own. This is why college campuses have become giant narcissistic echo chambers. Anyone who does not think like them infuriates them and causes them to lash out.

All that said to point out that there's a fractional chance they'll look in the mirror and be honest with themselves, but they don't have the ability. This is good news for the GOP.

Before you hit submit on posts like this, you should try replacing “Democrat” with “Republican” to see if it still makes sense. 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

Why is it that compassionate democrats are so fucking stingy giving voluntarily to the poor and downtrodden compared to heartless and selfish republicans?  

Easy question. The republican party is comprised primarily of people who only care about their tax bill and culturally maintaining the status quo or going back in time. Notwithstanding your duping a ton of working class people to vote R because groceries are more expensive this cycle. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

I'm not entirely agreeing with this because I don't see Harris going heavy with identity politics. Harris seemed to intentionally shy away from her background other than she grew up in a middle class household. Were you aware of that?

I do agree that Dems do a poor job communicating their stance towards trans issues. As a group they support trans rights but I don't see them running on that. The right has pounced on the unpopularity of trans rights. Should the Dems join the bandwagon and try to out-cruel the right? It goes against the values of the Dems to add to the marginalization of a minority group.

Trans definitely deserve rights but not at the expense of women. That is the big hang up that dems can't figure out...the very liberal states adding trans to womens sports is an easy win for republicans in the grand scheme of voter base. 

[linux 1660]

If Biden gave her permission to distance but she did not then we really are in a clown world, she needed to not only push for differences but enact them while Biden was president things like handouts god damn it why oh why did we do this? I made a mistake before saying she ran a great campaign for 2012, but her refusal to go populist near the end just killed us.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

35 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

The country isn't ready for it.  Like it or not, men in women's sports is an 80/20 or 70/30 issue (against).  The Harris campaign had to moderate on that issue and they never did.

Don't forget - as I recall in 2008, Obama was anti gay marriage...because he and his people recognized the country wasn't ready yet.  Since the final vote was a landslide, he may have still won if he had come out in favor of gay marriage but the margin would have been a lot slimmer.

I disagree that mainstream Dem politicians and supporters want men in women's sports. I would say they're silent on the issue as in more aligned with letting a sports organization and perhaps the courts decide. What a crazy concept that we let the people close to the issue or those interpreting laws decide the status quo.

The issue was put into the discussion by the GOP because they want to push trans people out of society. for example how they will not be allowed to use public restrooms. Should Dems agree that we should harm trans people?

[Incredulity 11650]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would say they're silent on the issue

Interesting, so in this case silence is A-OK, but otherwise complicit ?

Edited November 7 by Incredulity

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Trans definitely deserve rights but not at the expense of women. That is the big hang up that dems can't figure out...the very liberal states adding trans to womens sports is an easy win for republicans in the grand scheme of voter base. 

I'm not trying to turn this thread in a trans only discussion but I haven't seen one woman harmed or had their rights taken away due to trans rights. I know there is that one right wing commentator who is mad that she tied for 5th in a NCAA championship instead of having 5th place to herself. That's sad story is not keeping anyone up.

but I agree with you that it's a big issue for the GOP. They've always been very successful in scaring people about bathrooms and sex behind closed doors. I truly believe it's their biggest winning issue over the last 50 years.

[linux 1660]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I disagree that mainstream Dem politicians and supporters want men in women's sports. I would say they're silent on the issue as in more aligned with letting a sports organization and perhaps the courts decide. What a crazy concept that we let the people close to the issue or those interpreting laws decide the status quo.

The issue was put into the discussion by the GOP because they want to push trans people out of society. for example how they will not be allowed to use public restrooms. Should Dems agree that we should harm trans people?

The strategy is to not ignore it but to play sob stories, not go to ham with god damn stupid things like enforcing pronouns. Identity politics is the bully police with out the intelligence to understand that pissing people off is a bad idea.

[UTGrad98 2271]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Trans definitely deserve rights but not at the expense of women. That is the big hang up that dems can't figure out...the very liberal states adding trans to womens sports is an easy win for republicans in the grand scheme of voter base. 

Im sorry but this is true. From the data I looked up its a 70/30 split among the US that trans women should not be allowed to compete in girls sports and especially if done after puberty. Im fine with how anyone wans to live their life but its common sense to me there are huge physical advantages for former men competing against women. That wont go away and Im sure had some effect on voters. Hell it was the only ad I saw in Texas. Republicans arent stupid. They see the data as well. It's low hanging fruit. Its all unfortunate. 

[B00M 6413]

32 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Kamala's ads were extremely blah down the stretch. She needed to say something to the effect of: "We strongly believe that no one should make life altering decisions before they reach adulthood, but ultimately their decision lies between the individual, their parents, and their doctor, and them alone."

Way too many words, dude. That might work on a message board but it’s awful in a commercial. Half way through the sentence most Americans pick up their phones. By the end of the sentence, they’re disgusted by a headline thumbnail of a masculine woman participating in an Olympic event…

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm not trying to turn this thread in a trans only discussion but I haven't seen one woman harmed or had their rights taken away due to trans rights. I know there is that one right wing commentator who is mad that she tied for 5th in a NCAA championship instead of having 5th place to herself. That's sad story is not keeping anyone up.

but I agree with you that it's a big issue for the GOP. They've always been very successful in scaring people about bathrooms and sex behind closed doors. I truly believe it's their biggest winning issue over the last 50 years.

Like I said....it's an easy W for republican's when this exist

 

It is also an easy W for republicans when far left is pushing for blockers and other shit for children. You're literally feeding into exactly what republicans want because those are easy landslide wins with common americans. That shit is going to stick because it's universally disliked...

Edited November 7 by BurntOrange&White

[David Dennison 18845]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Like I said....it's an easy W for republican's when this exist

That issue will never swing an election. It's noise.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Just now, linux said:

The strategy is to not ignore it but to play sob stories, not go to ham with god damn stupid things like enforcing pronouns. Identity politics is the bully police with out the intelligence to understand that pissing people off is a bad idea.

but it should be pointed out that no one is enforcing pronouns. Any "pronoun police" is only stopping a person who is intentionally trying to hurt or bully a coworker.

If a coworker tells me that they prefer to be called Steve as opposed to their formal name of Stephen, I respect that. If I intentionally call him Stephen just to prove a point, it's fair that he or someone else tell me to cut it out. Maybe there is a big reason, which I don't have a right to know, he doesn't want to be called that. None of my business.  I'm also not getting in trouble for calling him Stephen once just as I have never heard of someone being fired for pronouns.

[UTGrad98 2271]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Like I said....it's an easy W for republican's when this exist

Yup. It's common sense.

Just now, David Dennison said:

That issue will never swing an election. It's noise.

You overestimate our electorate. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

but it should be pointed out that no one is enforcing pronouns. Any "pronoun police" is only stopping a person who is intentionally trying to hurt or bully a coworker.

If a coworker tells me that they prefer to be called Steve as opposed to their formal name of Stephen, I respect that. If I intentionally call him Stephen just to prove a point, it's fair that he or someone else tell me to cut it out. Maybe there is a big reason, which I don't have a right to know, he doesn't want to be called that. None of my business.  I'm also not getting in trouble for calling him Stephen once just as I have never heard of someone being fired for pronouns.

Where were you 10 years ago during me too and such things? That pronoun shit was heavily heavily pushed and if you were against it you were against them.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Like I said....it's an easy W for republican's when this exist

 

It is also an easy W for republicans when far left is pushing for blockers and other shit for children. You're literally feeding into exactly what republicans want because those are easy landslide wins with common americans. That shit is going to stick because it's universally disliked...

Where is the outrage at college sports or the NCAA? It's amazing how many conservative UT fans are boycotting UT football games over this.

[wildcat09 29343]

Just now, David Dennison said:

That issue will never swing an election. It's noise.

Yeah, this was very much NOT a contributing factor to this election.  Trans girls in sports are like 10 total in the country. Nobody gives a shit that Riley Gaines came in 5th instead of 4th. Dems fucked up messaging on this because they should've hit Republicans for wanting to inspect kids' genitals, which is something they very much want to do because they're fucking pedophiles.

[aggie08 21482]

4 minutes ago, B00M said:

Way too many words, dude. That might work on a message board but it’s awful in a commercial. Half way through the sentence most Americans pick up their phones. By the end of the sentence, they’re disgusted by a headline thumbnail of a masculine woman participating in an Olympic event…

Sorry, my sentence structure was confusing. Didn't mean to imply that she should have made an entire commercial to take a moderate position on trans rights. A statement or something. She just completely ignored it for her entire campaign as far as I could tell.

Her commercials were blah separate of that, focusing on Trump's revenge list or some such.

[Frank Drebin 5654]

15 minutes ago, B00M said:

Before you hit submit on posts like this, you should try replacing “Democrat” with “Republican” to see if it still makes sense. 

Except that one party has a far greater percentage of the mentally ill.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, this was very much NOT a contributing factor to this election.  Trans girls in sports are like 10 total in the country. Nobody gives a shit that Riley Gaines came in 5th instead of 4th. Dems fucked up messaging on this because they should've hit Republicans for wanting to inspect kids' genitals, which is something they very much want to do because they're fucking pedophiles.

You and democrats are missing the bigger picture....this was one thing that is easy W on a huge scale for republicans. There are other things that also push the scale for republicans that democrats have failed at. If you add enough of those up you'll get your death by 1000 cuts. Democrats are quite literally playing a different game right now than republicans. Essentially bringing a knife to a gun fight in the overall scheme of electorate in 2024 and moving forward. 

Edited November 7 by BurntOrange&White

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Where were you 10 years ago during me too and such things? That pronoun shit was heavily heavily pushed and if you were against it you were against them.

I work for an overwhelmingly liberal heavy company including having at least one, recently transitioned person. And yes, people mistakenly used the wrong name and pronoun especially at first. No one was fired. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

You and democrats are missing the bigger picture....this was one thing that is easy W on a huge scale for republicans. There are other things that also push the scale for republicans that democrats have failed at. If you add enough of those up you'll get your death by 1000 cuts.

what do you want Dems to do? Do you want them to lead the charge in requiring chromosome tests in order to play women's sports?

This is like saying that both political parties should have outlawed 1960s civil rights because there were many racists in the country. (I didn't say Dems here because Dems were heavy on the racist side and eventually became republicans.)

[aggie08 21482]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That issue will never swing an election. It's noise.

It's not, man. It comes up in conversation way more often than I would have dreamed possible 3 years ago. From dumb, offhand jokes to "Can you believe they're [insert propaganda from podcast] with kids?" From people I know who are not reliable R voters. People get really, really dumb when it comes to their kids.

[wildcat09 29343]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You and democrats are missing the bigger picture....this was one thing that is easy W on a huge scale for republicans. There are other things that also push the scale for republicans that democrats have failed at. If you add enough of those up you'll get your death by 1000 cuts. Democrats are quite literally playing a different game right now than republicans. Essentially bringing a knife to a gun fight in the overall scheme of electorate in 2024 and moving forward. 

Yeah man, I’m very much aware that Dems are dogshit at messaging. It’s been one of my hobbyhorses here for a long time.

[B00M 6413]

5 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Except that one party has a far greater percentage of the mentally ill.

If these VERY OFFICIAL looking graphs are to be believed, HOLY SHIT. What’s this come out to, like 1 in 3 Americans? Can you provide the source please?

 

[linux 1660]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

but it should be pointed out that no one is enforcing pronouns. Any "pronoun police" is only stopping a person who is intentionally trying to hurt or bully a coworker.

If a coworker tells me that they prefer to be called Steve as opposed to their formal name of Stephen, I respect that. If I intentionally call him Stephen just to prove a point, it's fair that he or someone else tell me to cut it out. Maybe there is a big reason, which I don't have a right to know, he doesn't want to be called that. None of my business.  I'm also not getting in trouble for calling him Stephen once just as I have never heard of someone being fired for pronouns.

It is pervasive, in the most annoying way however, things like lanyards with your prefered pronouns, that stuff ticks normies off, not just the alt right. Look I get it it sucks to be intentionally made inferior, but they are just words, going to war over small fry stuff murdered us, identity politics is almost always 100% small fry stuff.

Notice how I am not even talking about medical shit, just the pronoun war. Pissing people off has consequences make sure it is for real things, people love sob stories, and they hate being "bullied" into compliance. Identity politics says ignore the former but do the latter.

[aggie08 21482]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, this was very much NOT a contributing factor to this election.  Trans girls in sports are like 10 total in the country. Nobody gives a shit that Riley Gaines came in 5th instead of 4th. Dems fucked up messaging on this because they should've hit Republicans for wanting to inspect kids' genitals, which is something they very much want to do because they're fucking pedophiles.

You guys are in denial on this, I'm sorry. There's a reason every single Cruz ad focused on it to shameless degrees. The numbers show it's effective.

Agree with bolded though 100%. Kamala should have taken a moderate stance while hammering home how invasive, horrific, and frankly cruel Republican ideas to "solve" the issue are.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

what do you want Dems to do? Do you want them to lead the charge in requiring chromosome tests in order to play women's sports?

This is like saying that both political parties should have outlawed 1960s civil rights because there were many racists in the country. (I didn't say Dems here because Dems were heavy on the racist side and eventually became republicans.)

How about stop pushing for trans to compete in women’s sports would be the easiest. 

[Billy Pilgrim 1960]

13 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Are you dense? If you support people who are openly fascist you don’t get to say you’re not fascist. 
“Man wearing Vince young jersey claims not to be a Vince young fan”. 

PBS is propaganda now lol. Ok guy

Good Germans lol

Do you seriously believe that 51% of the American population is fascist? Both these candidates were trash but I voted against the status quo and the abortion issue is not in my top 5 concerns with the country right now. People can have a differing opinion than you and not be shitty people. Why is that so hard to believe?

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

The Democrat party is one huge narcissistic circle jerk.  The first rule about that is that it is you and not them. So the autopsy of this election cycle will be someone else's fault. I am okay with them keeping that line of thinking.
The Democrat party is wildly attractive to people with mental illnesses, especially narcissists. All you have to look at is the core traits that make someone a narcissist.
1. No ability for self reflection. If they get a negative response, it's on the other person. Not them. They are perfect.
2. No ability for accountability. Ties in to #1.
3. Narcissists LOVE echo chambers. They have no ability to receive and process thoughts other than their own. This is why college campuses have become giant narcissistic echo chambers. Anyone who does not think like them infuriates them and causes them to lash out.
All that said to point out that there's a fractional chance they'll look in the mirror and be honest with themselves, but they don't have the ability. This is good news for the GOP.

Likewise I’m sure the wise GOP will be introspective enough to realize that they benefitted greatly from the state of the economy more than anything, and not double down on many of their largely unpopular social policies.

[B00M 6413]

Just now, aggie08 said:

There's a reason every single Cruz ad focused on it to shameless degrees.

austinites got hammer fucked by these ads every commercial break during every football game the last month+

[Incredulity 11650]

Just now, linux said:

It is pervasive, in the most annoying way however, things like lanyards with your prefered pronouns, that stuff ticks normies off, not just the alt right. Look I get it it sucks to be intentionally made inferior, but they are just words, going to war over small fry stuff murdered us, identity politics is almost always 100% small fry stuff.

Ad-hoc changes to the English language/syntax/grammer with losing your job as a consequence of error is completely Orwellian.

I’m sorry but insisting on being referenced as a plural pronoun in instances where a singular is grammatically correct is fucking absurd.

I’ll gladly refer to anyone who wants to be referred to he or she as they desire.
 

[Hank Kingsley 20904]

We were pelted with nonstop anti-Trans TV ads for the last month in Texas and it was just "noise"? What? 

[Frank Drebin 5654]

5 minutes ago, B00M said:

If these VERY OFFICIAL looking graphs are to be believed, HOLY SHIT. What’s this come out to, like 1 in 3 Americans? Can you provide the source please?

 

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/b-Mental-health-outcomes-by-political-ideology-and-sex-ever-had-mental-health-problem_fig4_341609819

 

 

[Sawbonz 27534]

13 hours ago, ulukinatme said:

I care about taking care of my family first and foremost. I've got a special needs child, things can be tight. The 2016-2020 years were pretty good to our family. Low inflation, home value went up as we were looking to sell, cheap gas and food, increased tax credits for the kids, and wound up with an extra bonus at work the year the tax revision went into place. 

The last 4 years haven't been so great. I think of others, but they come second after family. I think a lot of people in similar situations were looking for the reset button yesterday. I don't care about his rants, I tend not to pay attention to them, they're a waste of time. Good luck to you as well.

Congratulations you and your child are fucked

[hobbes2702 13029]

5 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Do you seriously believe that 51% of the American population is fascist? Both these candidates were trash but I voted against the status quo and the abortion issue is not in my top 5 concerns with the country right now. People can have a differing opinion than you and not be shitty people. Why is that so hard to believe?

Because your choices matter. You don’t get to pretend they don’t. If you vote for fascism then that’s on you for supporting fascism. If you vote for a rapist then that’s on you for supporting a rapist.

You can tell me you’re a good person all you want but your actions and the effect they have on people say otherwise.

Edited November 7 by hobbes2702

[chainsaw 9857]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/b-Mental-health-outcomes-by-political-ideology-and-sex-ever-had-mental-health-problem_fig4_341609819

 

 

 

Conservatives are less likely to admit they need treatment.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

20 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, this was very much NOT a contributing factor to this election.  Trans girls in sports are like 10 total in the country. Nobody gives a shit that Riley Gaines came in 5th instead of 4th. Dems fucked up messaging on this because they should've hit Republicans for wanting to inspect kids' genitals, which is something they very much want to do because they're fucking pedophiles.

It was a cornerstone of the GOP campaign ads. Campaign ads that contributed to capaign that dominated.  Why would you think the cornerstone of the GOP's campaign ads didn't contribute to the outcome of the election?  Trans issues are political losers for the dems. It sucks, but that is reality.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Because your choices matter. You don’t get to pretend that don’t. If you vote for fascism then that’s on you for supporting fascism. If you vote for a rapist then that’s on you for supporting a rapist.

You can tell me you’re a good person all you want but your actions and the effect they have on people say otherwise.

This is just complete bullshit argument. It makes you just as bad as the republicans you're against.

Edited November 7 by BurntOrange&White

[G650 14229]

2 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Do you seriously believe that 51% of the American population is fascist? Both these candidates were trash but I voted against the status quo and the abortion issue is not in my top 5 concerns with the country right now. People can have a differing opinion than you and not be shitty people. Why is that so hard to believe?

They aren't fascist, but they are willing to let others suffer and die over the price of eggs.

There are millions and millions of people who have differing opinions than I do. I actually enjoy being around those with differing opinions way more than those that agree with me, which I find incredibly boring. Voting for Trump is not one of those things, it indeed makes someone a shitty person, because at this point everyone who votes for him knows with complete clarity he will hurt our fellow citizens. There is no more shitty thing than that. It's a 100% conscious decision.

[hobbes2702 13029]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

This is just complete bullshit argument

The argument that people’s choices reflect their values is bullshit? Ok then. 
Here’s an idea, don’t vote for rapists and fascists and no one will think you support those things.. 

[Sawbonz 27534]

26 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That issue will never swing an election. It's noise.

Counterpoint: people are stupid

[hobbes2702 13029]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

They aren't fascist, but they are willing to let others suffer and die over the price of eggs.

There are millions and millions of people who have differing opinions than I do. I actually enjoy being around those with differing opinions way more than those that agree with me, which I find incredibly boring. Voting for Trump is not one of those things, it indeed makes someone a shitty person, because at this point everyone who votes for him knows with complete clarity he will hurt our fellow citizens. There is no more shitty thing than that. It's a 100% conscious decision.

This isn’t hard

[GW Hayduke 1953]

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

what do you want Dems to do? Do you want them to lead the charge in requiring chromosome tests in order to play women's sports?

This is like saying that both political parties should have outlawed 1960s civil rights because there were many racists in the country. (I didn't say Dems here because Dems were heavy on the racist side and eventually became republicans.)

One idea is for the Dems to move away from culture war and identity politics and stick to winning positions like - affordable chidlcare, affordable healthcare, affordable access to higher education, tax the rich, worker's rights, consumer's rights - stick to winning economic issues and drop all culture war issues.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

One idea is for the Dems to move away from culture war and identity politics and stick to winning positions like - affordable chidlcare, affordable healthcare, affordable access to higher education, tax the rich, worker's rights, consumer's rights - stick to winning economic issues and drop all culture war issues.

to me that was the platform. I didn't see Kamala call for more trans women in women's sports. 

[Sawbonz 27534]

7 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Do you seriously believe that 51% of the American population is fascist? Both these candidates were trash but I voted against the status quo and the abortion issue is not in my top 5 concerns with the country right now. People can have a differing opinion than you and not be shitty people. Why is that so hard to believe?

About 25%. But there are another 26% who are complicit. Camel got his nose under the tent now. The finding out is going to begin. 

[Captainant 27625]

32 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It is also an easy W for republicans when far left is pushing for blockers and other shit for children

This is a lie and work of fiction. School nurses aren't sneaking kids into gender reassignment surgeries. They can't even give out fucking advil without a form.

 

Great example of a lie that's been repeated so much that people believe it to be true

Edited November 7 by Captainant

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

The argument that people’s choices reflect their values is bullshit? Ok then. 
Here’s an idea, don’t vote for rapists and fascists and no one will think you support those things.. 

I voted for Kamala, my wife(a public school teacher) voted for Trump....is she a fascist? Your whole fucking argument is just complete bullshit and you're shitting on a huge block of average people some of which are good kind people and some that could be not so good. To lump them into the same category is fucking pathetic and sad coming from the "open minded" left.

[elguapo 4586]

7 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Do you seriously believe that 51% of the American population is fascist? Both these candidates were trash but I voted against the status quo and the abortion issue is not in my top 5 concerns with the country right now. People can have a differing opinion than you and not be shitty people. Why is that so hard to believe?

I don't know if voting for a fascist makes you one, but 51% of the population, including you apparently, are ok with a fascist,  criminal, and (at the very least) sexual assaulter being president over an extremely qualified woman.

[G650 14229]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

One idea is for the Dems to move away from culture war and identity politics and stick to winning positions like

I agree with this, but the one thing about it is I almost never see Dems bring this up. It's almost always Republicans, and then the Dems have to respond. I guess the answer is in changing the way they respond.