Surly Horns Official 🇺🇸 2024 Election Day 🇺🇸

[linux 1,533]

4 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

COVID was happening regardless who was in office. You could have had FDR, Lincoln, or Kennedy in office, the people that died were still going to die. That's how global pandemics work, they tend to transcend politics. Viruses don't care who you vote for. Again, more died by September of 2021 under Biden than under Trump in 2020, despite Biden having the jab at the start of his term. This argument goes nowhere.

The people that died on Jan6 died of heart attacks and an overdose, other than Babbitt who was shot by police. Do you care about those "insurrectionists" that died?

What about BLM? They did millions in property damage over the riots. I was told property is meaningless.

Look buddy I am not going to debate MAGA I am putting you on ignore, you are too lost if you think Trump handled COVID competently go debate a wall.

[chainsaw 9,764]

2 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

more died by September of 2021

Let's unpack that a bit, shall we?

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/greg-abbott-texas-announcement/

Quote

Gov. Greg Abbott says he's rescinding statewide mask mandate and capacity limits on businesses

The change, which comes as the seven-day average of new coronavirus deaths remains above 200, will go into effect March 10.

 

[ulukinatme 1,732]

24 minutes ago, Chopper said:

The way you say "Project 2025 Boogeyman" makes me think you're a full-on regard. Dotard created that group. He gave 'em a speech on their inaugural meeting. His top staffers were deeply tied, as were JV Vance's. You're so fucking stupid I guess you'll be surprise the minute they start rolling out that nazi shit. As far as money, yes she outraised him from SMALL DONORS. That doesn't include the money the billionaires gave Dotard. Something like $700 BILLION, with which they did shit a regulated political campaign could never do and kept it secret. 

Full-on regard, stupid, Dotard, Nazi. I feel like I'm one "MAGAT" away from liberal bingo. You bring a compelling argument.

Trump didn't create the group. The Heritage Foundation was created in 1973 it looks like, back when Trump was still a Democrat. True, some of his former staff joined the Heritage Foundation. If someone leaves the company you work for and begins working for another company...are they still part of your team? 

$700 billion, huh? You would think such a number would have drawn a reputable news source to cover it. Are you sure this wasn't some propaganda you bought into?

[Brian Fantana 6,646]

48 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Specifically, which mistakes did she make that alienated D voting blocs because I’m not seeing any. You can’t fault her campaign for Latino Males saying they just don’t want a woman President. Trump did worse with White Women so he lost ground there. Blacks were essentially right in line. She lost the presidency by 175000 votes across the blue wall, so that isn’t a blowout.

So I’m curious what fatal mistake did her campaign make in 100 days?

And I actually would like to see if America would elect a Black woman if we could go back 12 years before trumps rise and had been able to properly educate Americans on the things dems were really doing and not doing. 

Refusing to lean into and push progressive policies that are broadly popular amongst the electorate, as Obama did in 2008, and instead attempting to appear more right wing to court an imaginary disaffected Trump voter bloc.  She failed to offer any compelling vision of change and it cost her dearly.

The whole "Republicans for Harris" bullshit dog and pony show, along with the very conservative messaging and rhetoric that the campaign adopted starting with the DNC in August almost certainly alienated a good chunk of (or at least disillusioned) younger and/or low-propensity voters. Those two groups are very demonstrably angry with the status quo, an d nothing says "status quo" like an establishment Democrat taking a public right turn and palling around with Liz fucking Cheney. It certainly made me want to throw up in my mouth and I don't belong in either of those categories.

Refusal to break with the current sitting (and quite unpopular with the electorate) Joseph Robinette Brandon in any meaningful way on any current administration policy, and actually pivoting further right on some of them, such as the border/immigration. She had a TON of momentum early and this was the time to do it, to really set yourself apart and energize voters.

The absolutely baffling and inexplicable decision to send Ritchie fucking Torres of all people, and Bill Clinton, to Michigan to try and appeal to Arab-American voters was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a campaign do in my lifetime. Not to mention, again, courting the fucking Cheneys.

Picking Tim Walz but not actually allowing him to play to his real strength as a politician, which is pushing progressive policies in rural red/purple areas of the country, and instead effectively relegating him to being the "hey look at the Republicans, aren't they weird?" guy.

Failing to actually address the economy in any meaningful way that would resonate with undecideds (who decisively broke for Trump) and low-propensity voters.

 

The list is fairly long, but that isn't to say she didn't do plenty of things right as well. You're not wrong that America is very racist and misogynistic. She needed to run a near perfect campaign to win and she didn't come even close to that. The signs were there all along, and pretty much everyone ignored them, to our detriment.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Joseph Robinette Brandon

Don’t do that. You’re not a child.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

12 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Some schoolyard antics. Just exploring the capital, looking for loot.

That's right.

[Chopper 17,034]

Shout out to mac and drebbin and ulic this one's for you boys

[David Dennison 18,161]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

So I’m curious what fatal mistake did her campaign make in 100 days?

She failed to distinguish herself in any meaningful way from an extremely unpopular president.

 

[ulukinatme 1,732]

11 minutes ago, linux said:

Look buddy I am not going to debate MAGA I am putting you on ignore, you are too lost if you think Trump handled COVID competently go debate a wall.

Tell me, what did Biden do that was different from Trump's approach? Biden didn't put in more lockdowns and layoffs, many businesses were actually reopening that year. There were the same masking mandates, or in cases they were lifted. Biden had the jab right at the start, that was nice for him. You're going to honestly tell me in hindsight that Biden or some other politician was going to do a better job at stopping a global pandemic? 

Or, you know, you can just admit that the pandemic was politicized because it was the only way Democrats were going to upset Trump's bid for a 2nd term in 2020.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,866]

20 minutes ago, linux said:

Look buddy I am not going to debate MAGA I am putting you on ignore, you are too lost if you think Trump handled COVID competently go debate a wall.

I just put a bunch of them on ignore. Now if only people would stop quoting them. Honestly, they aren't worth the effort. 

[David Dennison 18,161]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I just put a bunch of them on ignore. Now if only people would stop quoting them. Honestly, they aren't worth the effort. 

Yeah, that is an uphill battle. But also, the struggle is real.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,866]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Yeah, that is an uphill battle. But also, the struggle is real.

I worked out some of my anger on them earlier. Still angry, but able to focus. 

[Kermit 3,120]

15 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

That's right.

Just strolling through the capital, lightly tapping on some cops with some poles. 

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I just put a bunch of them on ignore. Now if only people would stop quoting them. Honestly, they aren't worth the effort. 

My bad.

[David Dennison 18,161]

What's the record for presidential pardons?

[ulukinatme 1,732]

7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I just put a bunch of them on ignore. Now if only people would stop quoting them. Honestly, they aren't worth the effort. 

If you keep going through life refusing to listen to the other side, or you see yourself as better than them, you'll never understand why this election was lost.

[Frank Drebin 5,475]

Not quite $700 billion or whatever that one nut claims.  But a lot.

 

 

[B00M 6,179]

24 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Refusing to lean into and push progressive policies that are broadly popular amongst the electorate, as Obama did in 2008, and instead attempting to appear more right wing to court an imaginary disaffected Trump voter bloc.  She failed to offer any compelling vision of change and it cost her dearly.

The whole "Republicans for Harris" bullshit dog and pony show, along with the very conservative messaging and rhetoric that the campaign adopted starting with the DNC in August almost certainly alienated a good chunk of (or at least disillusioned) younger and/or low-propensity voters. Those two groups are very demonstrably angry with the status quo, an d nothing says "status quo" like an establishment Democrat taking a public right turn and palling around with Liz fucking Cheney. It certainly made me want to throw up in my mouth and I don't belong in either of those categories.

Refusal to break with the current sitting (and quite unpopular with the electorate) Joseph Robinette Brandon in any meaningful way on any current administration policy, and actually pivoting further right on some of them, such as the border/immigration. She had a TON of momentum early and this was the time to do it, to really set yourself apart and energize voters.

The absolutely baffling and inexplicable decision to send Ritchie fucking Torres of all people, and Bill Clinton, to Michigan to try and appeal to Arab-American voters was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a campaign do in my lifetime. Not to mention, again, courting the fucking Cheneys.

Picking Tim Walz but not actually allowing him to play to his real strength as a politician, which is pushing progressive policies in rural red/purple areas of the country, and instead effectively relegating him to being the "hey look at the Republicans, aren't they weird?" guy.

Failing to actually address the economy in any meaningful way that would resonate with undecideds (who decisively broke for Trump) and low-propensity voters.

 

The list is fairly long, but that isn't to say she didn't do plenty of things right as well. You're not wrong that America is very racist and misogynistic. She needed to run a near perfect campaign to win and she didn't come even close to that. The signs were there all along, and pretty much everyone ignored them, to our detriment.

All that may be true, but, and hear me out, how many of the precious undecideds were fat fingering this into Google Wednesday?
 

 

[David Dennison 18,161]

5 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

If you keep going through life refusing to listen to the other side, or you see yourself as better than them, you'll never understand why this election was lost.

You do realize this is the exact playbook of the Republican Party, right?

[B00M 6,179]

18 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Or, you know, you can just admit that the pandemic was politicized because it was the only way Democrats were going to upset Trump's bid for a 2nd term in 2020.

 

Trump amplified conspiracy theories and contradicted the experts, often as they were attempting to advise the public on best practices. Yes, essentially any other human being would have handled that time better than Trump did. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,866]

5 minutes ago, B00M said:

All that may be true, but, and hear me out, how many of the precious undecideds were fat fingering this into Google Wednesday?
 

 

We have the dumbest electorate.

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You do realize this is the exact playbook of the Republican Party, right?

I love fascists telling me I have to listen to their reasons to hate people of color, women, and the LBTQ+ community. They can all go fuck themselves.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You do realize this is the exact playbook of the Republican Party, right?

I mean, it's the playbook for both parties. I was strictly referring to her choice to ignore opposing viewpoints though because she sees them as not worth her time as if they're beneath her.

Edited 1 hour ago by ulukinatme

[TwiceHorn 30,910]

12 hours ago, JBJ said:

The top three issues from exit polling was economy, immigration, and national security.  Dems were on the losing side of all 3.

The first and last are because those voters don't understand either of them.  No one gets them 100%, but many are utterly clueless.  That Trump would be better for either is pure superstition.  And his stated plans for both were ludicrous.

His immigration plan is extreme, inhumane, and doesn't really solve anything in the longer term, he made sure of that last year.  You say you want legal immigration to be easier, well  . . . .  And, it preys on people's irrational fears of others, which is a more polite name for racism.  

Edited 1 hour ago by TwiceHorn

[brakeman 28,156]

1st gay vice president.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I love fascists telling me I have to listen to their reasons to hate people of color, women, and the LBTQ+ community. They can all go fuck themselves.

People aren't fascists or nazis simply because they have a different opinion from you. Most people in this country are decent people just trying to get by. If you lump them all into a basket with horrible terms like this you lose all credibility. 

Edited 1 hour ago by ulukinatme

[Pancho 43,917]

29 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

She failed to distinguish herself in any meaningful way from an extremely unpopular president.

 

 

This is subjective 

[David Dennison 18,161]

3 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

People aren't fascists or nazis simply because they have a different opinion from you. Most people in this country are decent people just trying to get by. If you lump them all into a basket with horrible terms like this you lose all credibility. 

Again, this looks awfully familiar, just replace fascist and Nazi with socialist and Commie.

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

This is subjective 

You mean like voting?

But also, Joe Biden being extremely unpopular is definitely not subjective.

Edited 1 hour ago by David Dennison

[hobbes2702 12,670]

5 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

People aren't fascists or nazis simply because they have a different opinion from you. Most people in this country are decent people just trying to get by. If you lump them all into a basket with horrible terms like this you lose all credibility. 

People who consistently tell us that  they are fascists and nazis are facists and Nazis.

So, maybe don’t consistently support those things if you don’t want to be called them. I dunno seems simple.

Edited 1 hour ago by hobbes2702

[ulukinatme 1,732]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Again, this looks awfully familiar, just replace fascist and Nazi with socialist and Commie.

You're not wrong, those are two more terms that have nearly lost all meaning because they're abused and overused.

[TwiceHorn 30,910]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

You're not wrong, those are two more terms that have nearly lost all meaning because they're abused and overused.

Guess who started it?

[ulukinatme 1,732]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

People who consistently say they are fascists and nazis are facists and Nazis.

So, maybe don’t consistently support those things if you don’t want to be called them. I dunno seems simple.

Do conservatives in your every day life really go around referring to themselves as fascists and nazis? Texas seems weird.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Guess who started it?

Who cares? Calling maga fascist is simply a fact. This is all false equivalency bullshit and yall keep feeding into it for some reason.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

Just now, ulukinatme said:

Do conservatives in your every day life really go around referring to themselves as fascists and nazis? Texas seems weird.

Do you not read this website. Your peer is gleefully espousing his support for fascism. Another of your peers has openly said he supports a monarchy. 

[ulukinatme 1,732]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Guess who started it?

I'm gonna guess you're going to say a conservative. Do you have proof? Were you around when the first internet bros were talking politics online?

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who cares? Calling maga fascist is simply a fact. This is all false equivalency bullshit and yall keep feeding into it for some reason.

Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be. Take a break from propaganda for a bit, touch grass, talk with some regular people offline that have different opinions than you. I promise they're not all fascists.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Do you not read this website. Your peer is gleefully espousing his support for fascism. Another of your peers has openly said he supports a monarchy. 

Yeah, there's a lot of assholes on this site, always have been. Moose out front should have told ya. Doesn't mean they represent the majority.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

Just now, ulukinatme said:

I'm gonna guess you're going to say a conservative. Do you have proof? Were you around when the first internet bros were talking politics online?

Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you want it to be. Take a break from propaganda for a bit, touch grass, talk with some regular people offline that have different opinions than you. I promise they're not all fascists.

It’s not my opinion. It is a fact. You’re just a dunce. They fucking had a speaker refer to their rally as a Nazi rally. Maybe you should pay attention.

 

[hobbes2702 12,670]

Just now, ulukinatme said:

Yeah, there's a lot of assholes on this site, always have been. Moose out front should have told ya. Doesn't mean they represent the majority.

It doesn’t matter if you pretend that it’s not a majority of trumpers. Just because they’re ignorant about fascism doesn’t change that they support it with their votes. You don’t get to say “oh sorry I was too stupid to think the party calling themselves fascist would actually be that”.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

It doesn’t matter if you pretend that it’s not a majority of trumpers. Just because they’re ignorant about fascism doesn’t change that they support it with their votes. You don’t get to say “oh sorry I was too stupid to think the party calling themselves fascist would actually be that”.

It's no wonder so many here are standing on the edge and looking to move to Europe. This is a warped perception that is completely divergent from reality. Most people on both sides of the aisle are hard working Americans, decent people. If you see the other side as all fascists or supporting fascism you're a sheep that's been brainwashed into this dystopian view of society. Quit consuming propaganda, look at more unbiased news sources. You'll be happier.

[B00M 6,179]

ive never understood why history books don’t refer to mussolini’s and his supporters as typical Italians just trying to live their best lives with some fascists mixed in. 

[hobbes2702 12,670]

3 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

It's no wonder so many here are standing on the edge and looking to move to Europe. This is a warped perception that is completely divergent from reality. Most people on both sides of the aisle are hard working Americans, decent people. If you see the other side as all fascists or supporting fascism you're a sheep that's been brainwashed into this dystopian view of society. Quit consuming propaganda, look at more unbiased news sources. You'll be happier.

Are you dense? If you support people who are openly fascist you don’t get to say you’re not fascist. 
“Man wearing Vince young jersey claims not to be a Vince young fan”. 

PBS is propaganda now lol. Ok guy

3 minutes ago, B00M said:

ive never understood why history books don’t refer to mussolini’s and his supporters as typical Italians just trying to live their best lives with some fascists mixed in. 

Good Germans lol

Edited 1 hour ago by hobbes2702

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,866]

3 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

It's no wonder so many here are standing on the edge and looking to move to Europe. This is a warped perception that is completely divergent from reality. Most people on both sides of the aisle are hard working Americans, decent people. If you see the other side as all fascists or supporting fascism you're a sheep that's been brainwashed into this dystopian view of society. Quit consuming propaganda, look at more unbiased news sources. You'll be happier.

Question, do you believe NYC is a crime-ridden dystopia?

[ulukinatme 1,732]

Just now, B00M said:

ive never understood why history books don’t refer to mussolini’s and his supporters as typical Italians just trying to live their best lives with some fascists mixed in. 

Do you see how comparing the other party to a dictatorship from the 40s that tried to ally with Hitler to conquer the world...takes away any credibility you have?

I forgot when Trump started putting liberals in gas chambers. 

These extreme comparisons are ridiculous. They're not even close. That didn't stop Kamala from using such tactics. How did that desperation work out?

 

[TeeDubya 3,357]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Refusing to lean into and push progressive policies that are broadly popular amongst the electorate, as Obama did in 2008, and instead attempting to appear more right wing to court an imaginary disaffected Trump voter bloc.  She failed to offer any compelling vision of change and it cost her dearly.

The whole "Republicans for Harris" bullshit dog and pony show, along with the very conservative messaging and rhetoric that the campaign adopted starting with the DNC in August almost certainly alienated a good chunk of (or at least disillusioned) younger and/or low-propensity voters. Those two groups are very demonstrably angry with the status quo, an d nothing says "status quo" like an establishment Democrat taking a public right turn and palling around with Liz fucking Cheney. It certainly made me want to throw up in my mouth and I don't belong in either of those categories.

Refusal to break with the current sitting (and quite unpopular with the electorate) Joseph Robinette Brandon in any meaningful way on any current administration policy, and actually pivoting further right on some of them, such as the border/immigration. She had a TON of momentum early and this was the time to do it, to really set yourself apart and energize voters.

The absolutely baffling and inexplicable decision to send Ritchie fucking Torres of all people, and Bill Clinton, to Michigan to try and appeal to Arab-American voters was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a campaign do in my lifetime. Not to mention, again, courting the fucking Cheneys.

Picking Tim Walz but not actually allowing him to play to his real strength as a politician, which is pushing progressive policies in rural red/purple areas of the country, and instead effectively relegating him to being the "hey look at the Republicans, aren't they weird?" guy.

Failing to actually address the economy in any meaningful way that would resonate with undecideds (who decisively broke for Trump) and low-propensity voters.

 

The list is fairly long, but that isn't to say she didn't do plenty of things right as well. You're not wrong that America is very racist and misogynistic. She needed to run a near perfect campaign to win and she didn't come even close to that. The signs were there all along, and pretty much everyone ignored them, to our detriment.

This is quite accurate.

[Macklemore 2,860]

21 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

We have the dumbest electorate.

I love fascists telling me I have to listen to their reasons to hate people of color, women, and the LBTQ+ community. They can all go fuck themselves.

I know your heart is set on London but you should really consider Toronto. You’ll be culturally enriched by the millions of Punjabi scam artists that have come since COVID on student visas. Brampton would be perfect for you. Just last week they had street battles between Hindus and Khalistani Sikhs who have brought their blood feud with them. How lovely!! You have a lot in common with the typical smug Canadian who thinks they’re superior to Americans. They’re not so smug anymore. Let’s see how progressive you remain in that setting.

[ulukinatme 1,732]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Question, do you believe NYC is a crime-ridden dystopia?

No. Nor do I think California is a hellscape of homeless that experiences blackouts weekly. San Diego was beautiful. Didn't make it to LA, heard good things.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

“Why would you call them fascists or Nazis? Get out of your echo chamber bro”. 
Fucking moron

[ulukinatme 1,732]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Are you dense? If you support people who are openly fascist you don’t get to say you’re not fascist. 
“Man wearing Vince young jersey claims not to be a Vince young fan”. 

Hey...not a fascist, my guy.

Quote

PBS is propaganda now lol. Ok guy

Try Reuters.

[hobbes2702 12,670]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

Hey...not a fascist, my guy.

Try Reuters.

Not fascists guys, they just cared about inflation.

Are you really doubling down on the idea that PBS is propaganda? 

[Brian Fantana 6,646]

10 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I know your heart is set on London but you should really consider Toronto. You’ll be culturally enriched by the millions of Punjabi scam artists that have come since COVID on student visas. Brampton would be perfect for you. Just last week they had street battles between Hindus and Khalistani Sikhs who have brought their blood feud with them. How lovely!! You have a lot in common with the typical smug Canadian who thinks they’re superior to Americans. They’re not so smug anymore. Let’s see how progressive you remain in that setting.

Bro you're never gonna be white, stop trying so hard

[ulukinatme 1,732]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Not fascists guys, they just cared about inflation.

Are you really doubling down on the idea that PBS is propaganda? 

And you think one troll on Surly, of all places, speaks for half the country? Seriously, get offline, talk to some regular people.

Eh, Reuters is better, but you could be doing worse. PBS is left leaning, but not extreme.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,866]

12 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

No. Nor do I think California is a hellscape of homeless that experiences blackouts weekly. San Diego was beautiful. Didn't make it to LA, heard good things.

Well good for you. But you still voted for a felon and a rapist for President. So maybe stop the lecturing for us to try and understand your side. Saying it was the economy and voting for someone that is willing to crash the US economy and impose massive tariffs tells me you do not give a rats ass about the economy. You are just using that as an excuse becuase you like the things that he rants about. Good luck in your life.