Trump’s America

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

36 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

People were angry about a couple of transgender people playing sports. It was a largely ginned up issue.  Like seriously why does it even matter? Let them live thier life ffs.

There are probably still people out there that think the Algerian boxer should have her medal taken away. 

[G650 14249]

On 11/8/2024 at 1:52 PM, Anastasis said:

My point is that multigenerational households are not a modern American cultural norm, and that has been particularly the case since the 1950s. To expand further, this is primarily a phenomena of white American cultural norms. To the extent that the trend has been reversing over the last couple decades, it is driven by non-white cultures and first and second generation immigrant families. Some of y'all are getting really bogged down in the reference to the 1950's American white picket fence Americana propaganda. If you don't think that propaganda existed, don't think that it influences modern Americans' perceptions of middle class ideals, or want to quibble about whether there is one car or two, we can agree to disagree, and that is ok. We are in agreement (I think) that the basic QOL components that the post-WWII American middle class was founded around are eroding and increasingly unattainable. Those QOL components are primarily achievable by high income earners today, like top 10% income earners. And that is probably cutting it thin. 

 

 

 

On 11/8/2024 at 2:03 PM, Gatorubet said:

Really? This is exactly the sort of intellectual dishonesty that you favor that leads to your reputation here.  I said absolutely not one thing in support of or against generational households.

I merely pointed out  that your data point construct  - being a single income person supporting their family like the 1960s - was still absolutely an obtainable goal, not something false “sold” to them.  it’s just that now nobody wants that particular life. From my perspective, it was more the 1980s ‘greed is good’ philosophy, with an emphasis placed on how much you made and how nice a neighborhood you lived in that altered your little white house construct.

 If you truly wanted to be accurate, you should’ve listed the lie that spending money on college would always be a good decision.   People who became literally financially crippled through ridiculous educational debt have a right to feel hopeless and that they were lied to.    It took me six years to graduate, and I literally earned every dollar of my college degree, including tuition and living expenses.   I had to work part time while I was going to school and I took many semesters off to work as a union laborer, which made much more money than minimum wage. But I graduated with no debt, somebody that made my decision to obtain a post graduate degree financially sensible. People who owe 150 K for a philosophy degree should be angry, but should’ve had enough sense to know where that was leading.  I very much blame high school guidance counselors and universities for selling that bill of goods

Since you brought up multigenerational living, I think it is an idea that will happen of necessity rather than planning, as people will not be able to put mama in the nursing home or Assisted Living m ok  due to insufficient assets.   A combination of family assisting with a modicum of hourly caregivers is likely way less expensive. 

And of greater importance, in many cases it would result in better care for their elderly loved ones.  And I can see part of grandma or grandpa‘s Social Security being used to help pay the mortgage on that multigenerational home.  All of that is not a bad thing in my mind, as family needs to support family.

 

 

Alright, it's taken me a couple days to reply to this, because I wanted to have time to actually sit down and articulate what I am trying to communicate properly. There are so many threads and ideas flying around so quickly, I can't possibly keep up with what is where anymore, so this is definitely covering shit that is talked about elsewhere. I'll apologize in advance for what is an especially long winded post from me, but if we can stop insulting each other for 10 minutes here I think the core of this country's problems have been easily identifiable for a very long time. As far as solutions, I honestly have none.

 

Ana, I understand your point on multigenerational families and their lack of prevalence in America, but that is kind of a side show as a peripheral issue. The reason I asked you to expand is captured in your post above. We in fact don't agree at all that QOL has eroded, and I think that is the fundamental issue, not between me and you, but with the American middle class. QOL has increased for every American currently alive in immeasurable ways, which is something I've been screaming for the better part of two decades. What gator is describing is correct and he is one of the first people I've seen to really get it.

As I said, all the threads are coming to fast and furious for me to remember, but in one of them I noted that the US middle class is living in an unreality, and that is literally what has happened. They have a mental construct based purely off of emotion, and there is no rational response to that. When the most privileged humans to ever grace the planet think they are losing, there's nothing you can say in empirical terms to reason with that, it's a total fantasy. The basic truth now is that the lowliest peon in a western democracy is more privileged than Henry VIII. Set aside the ease of modern life, things like basic sanitation, and just consider time singularly. More raw time is the one thing that can't be bought (though us wealthy ones definitely buy more time for ourselves, early boarding on planes, car rides instead of sharing, meals made by others...), just watch billionaire psychos desperately trying to unlock the fountain of youth with treatments. But guess what? As a society we did just that. Average life expectancy is 77 years in the US, literally the average American has 20 years more life on the planet than one of the most powerful and privileged persons of all time. We somehow engineered ourselves an exemption from the laws of nature, which is insane. Yet we have country that thinks it's losing? Unreality. We have fundamentally lost the ability to even know what privilege even is. Because there are millions of people in subsaharan Africa, Southeast Asia, South America who have not gotten to this point yet, they are in fact half a millennium behind in most respects. Right now. On Planet Earth.

To look specifically to the change in the US vis a vis the 50's or 60s, which is getting more specifically into what you are saying and what gator is speaking about, it's the same thing just on a smaller scale. You will get no argument from me that the general populace has been force fed American Dream™ propaganda for a century. They have been lied to and pandered to, had their heads filled with all sorts of dreamy nonsense. But what it even means to be middle class now is so divorced from when even my childhood took place, it's unrecognizable. And I'm just a late Gen Xer. The house I was born into would basically been considered uninhabitable these days by a middle class person. From the fixtures, to the floors, no HVAC, it would be a tear down for any buyer. It may even be torn down now, I don't know. But it was the average middle class family house then. The townhouse my mom bought and she and I moved to after my parents split was a a solid middle class house. It would be considered something the working poor rent these days. The little pocket device we all carry has condensed trillions of dollars of technology into something that the lowliest working man can video chat a relative across the globe with, the ability to be with our loved ones across time and space is literally in our hands. Rockafeller and Vanderbilt could not buy this in their wildest fantasies with all their money, much less a middle class person from 1972. Just looking at dollars and cents phones have put more accumulated wealth in peoples lives than a 1950s family would ever seen combined. Health outcomes now vs then? No comparison. These are the very things that define QOL, and we are unimaginably ahead of where we were just 30 years ago, much less 70 years ago. People can absolutely have the 1950s ideal, one income, yadda yadda, but they don't want that life. At all. The way people people even characterize middle class now is totally separate from any empirical definition and hence undefinable. It's raw unadulterated emotion, and thus can never been attained. So as I said elsewhere, there is no policy outcome that will appease these people, it's by definition impossible to.

 

As Andrew Breibart himself noted, politics is downstream of culture. American culture has been sick for a long, long time, and in so many ways. Morally, aesthetically, socially, this has been something coming for decades, since the 80s at least. There's been small flashes of breaking out that torpor, but nothing that has sustained against the downward trajectory. This isn't something Trump did, or the Democrats, or even politicians in general. I've said this for so long now that I can only vaguely remember when I first got the sense this was happening. The American people did this to themselves. I have no answers on how it will change. I used to think maybe I did, but this election put that to bed permanently. I fear absent a worldwide depression and massive war, it will just be a gradual decline to black.

 

So, I guess in toto, TL;DR We played ourselves.

Alternatively, I ain't reading all that I'm happy for u tho or sorry that happened

 

 

 

 

 

[Anastasis 23469]

Love this whole exchange. We’re gonna make the cr great again. I’ll respond later with objective data supporting my view that QOL and attainment of middle class ideals has been on downward trend, but just want to acknowledge that this is how message boards are suppose to work. Thanks for that post. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

My query for the Trump supporters who claim to be decent, ethical, and moral human beings....why do they think a Trump win unleashed a torrent of permission for people to be shitty:

- Open statements by men of "your body, MY choice" to women: online, by male students to females in high schools and colleges, by advocacy groups demonstrating on college campuses.

- Gleeful statements and texts from friends and family members saying things like "glad that n***** b**** lost."

- Taunts to hispanic people, south asian people, and other minority groups of "your ass is gonna get deported."

- More open confrontations of people who are "foreign" looking or sounding in public of "go back to your country, you don't belong here."

- Open verbal statements, emails, and signs telling black people to "get ready to go back to the plantation" and numerous other shitty messages like that.

- Calling any and all gay and trans people "groomers" and "pedophiles" who should be taken care of by the law and otherwise.

 

From what I've seen, there is zero, zilch, NADA from the Trump supporter camp reacting to ANY of that with a "cut that shit out, that's not who we are, and if you stand for or say shit like that, GTFO of this movement."  I'd ask "why is that," but I'm pretty sure we all know why that is the case.

It is not just okay now, but a sign of strength, virtue, and dedication to the "MAGA movement" ideals, to behave that way.  Cruelty and open hatred is not a side effect -- it's the point.

[Frank Drebin 5663]

11 hours ago, mchookem said:

he's working on his sermon for tomorrow anyway

No, went duck hunting instead. Teal on the grill tonight.  

[Macklemore 2876]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This isn’t complicated. Republican have control of:

- Mainstream media

- Legacy media

- New media

- Old media

How can you say that with a straight face. Take a look at the political contributions of the people who work at Legacy Media. It’s virtually entirely to the Democratic Party. Stop being intentionally dishonest. I thought you guys were the party of honesty. That’s not what I’m getting from y’all.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3275]

In a very ironic twist, friend who was very much against owning a firearm has been pushed over the edge in the last few days since the election and now thinks it would probably be a good idea to have some way to defend themselves. Now got friends who voted for Trump asking why the change of heart and why they think they need a firearm...they don't want people who didn't vote for Trump to exercise their right to bear arms, I guess that is supposed to be reserved for the true MAGA believers...

[Brisketexan 105095]

31 minutes ago, G650 said:

As Andrew Breibart himself noted, politics is downstream of culture. American culture has been sick for a long, long time, and in so many ways. Morally, aesthetically, socially, this has been something coming for decades, since the 80s at least. There's been small flashes of breaking out that torpor, but nothing that has sustained against the downward trajectory. This isn't something Trump did, or the Democrats, or even politicians in general. I've said this for so long now that I can only vaguely remember when I first got the sense this was happening. The American people did this to themselves. I have no answers on how it will change. I used to think maybe I did, but this election put that to bed permanently. I fear absent a worldwide depression and massive war, it will just be a gradual decline to black.

This is the story, and pretty much the whole story.

Trump, Trumpism, and a resurgence of xenophobia and demonization of the "other" is not a product of Trumpism, MAGA, etc.  MAGA, Trumpism, and message board posters who gleefully jack off to the idea of going down to the border and shooting brown people are a product of WHO WE ARE.

Fighting back/arguing against that is clearly just yelling against the waves as they roll over us.  No point in talking about who we would like to be, who we pretend we are.  We are who we are.  This is who we are:

- Open statements by men of "your body, MY choice" to women: online, by male students to females in high schools and colleges, by advocacy groups demonstrating on college campuses.

- Gleeful statements and texts from friends and family members saying things like "glad that n***** b**** lost."

- Taunts to hispanic people, south asian people, and other minority groups of "your ass is gonna get deported."

- More open confrontations of people who are "foreign" looking or sounding in public of "go back to your country, you don't belong here."

- Open verbal statements, emails, and signs telling black people to "get ready to go back to the plantation" and numerous other shitty messages like that.

- Calling any and all gay and trans people "groomers" and "pedophiles" who should be taken care of by the law and otherwise.

 

And then, a big chunk of people who go along with that because either they are blind to it, think it won't really affect them, think that they can deal with the effects because the money pay off will be better, etc.  

TLDR: We are mostly one of two things - shitty, or okay with shittiness if we think we can skirt the effects/reap the benefits.

[Hank Kingsley 20921]

14 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

How can you say that with a straight face. Take a look at the political contributions of the people who work at Legacy Media. It’s virtually entirely to the Democratic Party. Stop being intentionally dishonest. I thought you guys were the party of honesty. That’s not what I’m getting from y’all.

Look at the people who own legacy media. 

[Brew 3049]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is the story, and pretty much the whole story.

Trump, Trumpism, and a resurgence of xenophobia and demonization of the "other" is not a product of Trumpism, MAGA, etc.  MAGA, Trumpism, and message board posters who gleefully jack off to the idea of going down to the border and shooting brown people are a product of WHO WE ARE.

Fighting back/arguing against that is clearly just yelling against the waves as they roll over us.  No point in talking about who we would like to be, who we pretend we are.  We are who we are.  This is who we are:

- Open statements by men of "your body, MY choice" to women: online, by male students to females in high schools and colleges, by advocacy groups demonstrating on college campuses.

- Gleeful statements and texts from friends and family members saying things like "glad that n***** b**** lost."

- Taunts to hispanic people, south asian people, and other minority groups of "your ass is gonna get deported."

- More open confrontations of people who are "foreign" looking or sounding in public of "go back to your country, you don't belong here."

- Open verbal statements, emails, and signs telling black people to "get ready to go back to the plantation" and numerous other shitty messages like that.

- Calling any and all gay and trans people "groomers" and "pedophiles" who should be taken care of by the law and otherwise.

 

And then, a big chunk of people who go along with that because either they are blind to it, think it won't really affect them, think that they can deal with the effects because the money pay off will be better, etc.  

TLDR: We are mostly one of two things - shitty, or okay with shittiness if we think we can skirt the effects/reap the benefits.

This is the basis of Trumpism. It’s not policy driven, it’s isolationism and fear driven. Just the number of people around here and other places online that can’t discuss policy, have no idea what they are even arguing in support of, and really just interact by sticking their fingers in their ears and sticking out their tongues is fascinating.

[elguapo 4586]

Oh no 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

28 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

How can you say that with a straight face. Take a look at the political contributions of the people who work at Legacy Media. It’s virtually entirely to the Democratic Party. Stop being intentionally dishonest. I thought you guys were the party of honesty. That’s not what I’m getting from y’all.

First of all, I'm not a Democrat. I never considered myself a particularly strong Democrat, and have not identified as a Democrat in any way since early 2016. Severing my relationship, which was tenuous to begin with, was the price of my vote for Hillary Clinton. 

Second, I'm some minuscule portion of "The people who work at Legacy Media" contributed some small part of their insignificant wages to Democrats or align to Democratic candidates in some way. You think that's meaningful to whether the Legacy media is under the control of the Republican messaging apparatus? You think some talking head or food columnist or assignments editor is in a position to put their thumb on the scale of elections? Come on man. I thought you got clean. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Oh no 

Catnip. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

I watch the local news. I mainly watch for the nightly weather. Outside of that, we watch streaming services - either trash reality TV or documentaries.

Me too. I don't watch reality TV but my wife does and we both watch docs. 

30 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

In a very ironic twist, friend who was very much against owning a firearm has been pushed over the edge in the last few days since the election and now thinks it would probably be a good idea to have some way to defend themselves. Now got friends who voted for Trump asking why the change of heart and why they think they need a firearm...they don't want people who didn't vote for Trump to exercise their right to bear arms, I guess that is supposed to be reserved for the true MAGA believers...

Because my progressive friends know I own a lot of guns I've gotten maybe a dozen calls and texts in the last 5 days about getting some pointers about what they should/could buy and own.

[tomahawk dunk 332]

13 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Sadly that shit happened before the election and all over the country. Walked into a bar with some friends from Cape Verde up in Boston. All heads turned towards us and we were politely told we might want to find another establishment.

It is in our soul as a nation. Sucks, but it is not just this election.

 

[Macklemore 2876]

29 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Look at the people who own legacy media. 

I thought prestige legacy media like the Post and LA Times have independent editorial control of their newsrooms. Are you trying to tell me that Bezos is a Republican and his paper is serving the interests of the GOP. What basis do you have for saying this? Because they refused to do an endorsement of Harris which was the Post’s tradition to not endorse anyone for prior to the 80s. You don’t believe this bullshit for one second.

Edited November 10 by Macklemore

[Horn Dog 9818]

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

My query for the Trump supporters who claim to be decent, ethical, and moral human beings...

Well you see, this is all happening under Biden!  Trump will fix it!

[immamac 42839]

Fourth turning isn't real. Lol

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

6 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I thought prestige legacy media like the Post and LA Times have independent editorial control of their newsrooms. Are you trying to tell me that Bezos is a Republican and his paper is serving the interests of the GOP. What basis do you having this? Because they refused to do an endorsement of Harris which was the Post’s tradition to not endorse anyone for prior to the 80s. You don’t believe this bullshit for one second bozo

They have independent control? First, that's a naive and dated idea in general. To the exent they were ever independent (they weren't, that was always a polite fiction) they haven't been in a couple of decades. That polite fiction has been mostly abandoned.  Second and more importantly however, both the post and the LA Times spiked their endorsement of Harris because their owners demanded it. I'm sure you are aware of that and I'm throwing you into the briar patch as you wish to see how you plan to get out. 

Edited November 10 by Bozo_Casanova

[closetohumping 17438]

50 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

No, went duck hunting instead. Teal on the grill tonight.  

Classic Johnny with the black face

[Macklemore 2876]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

They have independent control? First, that's a naive and dated idea in general. To the exent they were ever independent they haven't been in a couple of decades. Second and more importantly however, both the post and the LA Times spiked their endorsement of Harris because their owners demanded it. I'm sure you are aware of that and I'm throwing you into the briar patch as you wish to see how you plan to get out. 

I think Bezos was responding to the fact that the trust in legacy media was polled to be at 31% for all Americans and 12% amongst Republicans. He might have believed there is a crisis in legitimacy with corporate media serving as advocates, some would say propagandists of the Administration. Look at the hagiographic articles and covers of magazines that came out glorifying Harris after she entered the race. The NYT saw a big bump in subscriptions during Trump 1.0 for their adversarial role. That is what all legacy media tried to do which has left them with the lowest approval and trust level in history. The Post with their “Democracy Dies in Darkness” motto is not changing its stripes despite not endorsing Harris. They’re as disagreeable to a Republican president as can be as witnessed by the fit their journalists threw by their editors not endorsing Harris.

[G650 14249]

18 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Me too. I don't watch reality TV but my wife does and we both watch docs. 

Because my progressive friends know I own a lot of guns I've gotten maybe a dozen calls and texts in the last 5 days about getting some pointers about what they should/could buy and own.

Yeah, I sold most of mine. But not all.

[InkaUtexas 25907]

It might also have somethign to do with Amazon Web Services and a few of their kind of large projects with the Federal Government. No one wants to piss of Trump.

[closetohumping 17438]

 

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/local/article295151389.html

[mchookem 16327]

26 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

In a very ironic twist, friend who was very much against owning a firearm has been pushed over the edge in the last few days since the election and now thinks it would probably be a good idea to have some way to defend themselves. Now got friends who voted for Trump asking why the change of heart and why they think they need a firearm...they don't want people who didn't vote for Trump to exercise their right to bear arms, I guess that is supposed to be reserved for the true MAGA believers...

 

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because my progressive friends know I own a lot of guns I've gotten maybe a dozen calls and texts in the last 5 days about getting some pointers about what they should/could buy and own.

my niece is terrified. ive been talking her down all week... but then she had a run-in on campus with some jabronis (only verbal, but basically the same 'your body, my choice!' bs...gotdamn i wish i'd been there 😡).

i tried to get her to 'they're just stupid boys' but she's literally feeling terrorized, which i guess she is, and that seems to be the point. so...i went ahead and suggested she get a gun. she's shot out at my dad's many times, she's pretty comfortable handling a firearm, and a small pistol is all she needs. in fact...i suggested she carry lol (would have to be conceal carry on campus, i assume). i mean at this point i'm all for whatever it takes for her to feel safer until she can gtfo out of Texas. 

like i said...i now accept that we are who the world thinks we are. unlike an apparently huge chunk of this country, i am capable of taking in new data, letting my amygdala kick it around a bit, and then changing my position. @fattyflattie would be proud 😜...murder dildos for everyone!

 

i mean...fuck it.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

27 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Oh no 

She obviously fears losing weight too.  Thanks for the extra cash tho.  I could really use it.  Millions more like her.  Where do I start with the thank you cards?

 

With sleepy Joe if I listen to Nancy. 

[nbmishoid 949]

On 11/8/2024 at 5:31 PM, David Dennison said:

Why is that?

David

Well, compare your red district with a blue lone with similar demographics, and you might appear honest.

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

15 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I think Bezos was responding to the fact that the trust in legacy media was polled to be at 31% for all Americans and 12% amongst Republicans. He might have believed there is a crisis in legitimacy with corporate media serving as advocates, some would say propagandists of the Administration. Look at the hagiographic articles and covers of magazines that came out glorifying Harris after she entered the race. The NYT saw a big bump in subscriptions during Trump 1.0 for their adversarial role. That is what all legacy media tried to do which has left them with the lowest approval and trust level in history. The Post with their “Democracy Dies in Darkness” motto is not changing its stripes despite not endorsing Harris. They’re as disagreeable to a Republican president as can be as witnessed by the fit their journalists threw by their editors not endorsing Harris.

So you concede the newsrooms and journalists aren't independent AND you concede that business is better if Trump wins AND you concede that the ownership are making editorial decisions with Republicans in mind. 
My friend, much like citizenship, journalism is not an S&M kink. The people with gags on aren't in control.
You have lost this argument and we can go back to the main topic of the thread now.





 

Edited November 10 by Bozo_Casanova

[tx 3 putt 76905]

17 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

 

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/local/article295151389.html

[Horn Dog 9818]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-jimmys-fight-for-his-rights?qid=841ae29aa2bc024b06f27c93b47eee0e
 

[nbmishoid 949]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah it is, but I wonder why.

On the one hand, there's a lot of money there and a lot of education/educated.  But same is true of NYC and Philly, just using east coast cities.

One thing that maybe stands out, from WWII to present, it has gone from 96.6% white to 44.7%.

I suppose the other standout demographic feature is that its largest white ethnic population is Irish at 14%.

The wealth gap is huge, but I suspect no different than NYC or Philly.

Take the train from Newark to DC.  Inequality is to0 cold of a word to describe the track facing ghettos of Philly.  That society has real problems. 
or, Drive from Chicago to Nashville.  Every middling city’s has its awful ghetto on display.  The pictures just scream injustice and degradation.

[Horn Dog 9818]

 

https://www.silive.com/news/2012/07/grimm_gop_vote_to_repeal_presi.html

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-michael-grimm-walk-again?qid=9eddcbffec8e0236eb47ae98badee781

Edited November 10 by Horn Dog

[workswithseed 2102]

7 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

 

https://www.silive.com/politics/2024/11/former-staten-island-rep-michael-grimm-paralyzed-after-horse-riding-accident.html

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-michael-grimm-walk-again?qid=9eddcbffec8e0236eb47ae98badee781

I mean I really don't see nothing wrong with (lol, you used it) charity. Hell, the ACA isn't gone, and he still needs help. It's not an own, it shows that it's not working for him.

[G650 14249]

47 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

She obviously fears losing weight too.

I'm wagering that fear is misplaced unless hamberders get banned.

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I mean I really don't see nothing wrong with (lol, you used it) charity. Hell, the ACA isn't gone, and he still needs help. It's not an own, it shows that it's not working for him.

So your take is he actually wanted more comprehensive Healthcare, and would have voted yes on that?

[workswithseed 2102]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

I'm wagering that fear is misplaced unless hamberders get banned.

So your take is he actually wanted more comprehensive Healthcare, and would have voted yes on that?

No. 

[G650 14249]

Just now, workswithseed said:

No. 

I shall refer you to the thread title then good sir.

[workswithseed 2102]

Just now, G650 said:

I shall refer you to the thread title then good sir.

[Macklemore 2876]

56 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So you concede the newsrooms and journalists aren't independent AND you concede that business is better if Trump wins AND you concede that the ownership are making editorial decisions with Republicans in mind. 
My friend, much like citizenship, journalism is not an S&M kink. The people with gags on aren't in control.
You have lost this argument and we can go back to the main topic of the thread now.





 

Right media bias doesn’t exist in favor of the Democrats. If the mainstream media is under the control of Republicans why do Republicans have such little regard for it. I mean if it caters to my interests I should be for it. I don’t think the NYT is going to see a big bump in subscription from Trump haters this go around. You know that’s where the bump came from - Trump haters. Y’all have been worn down too bad and nothing sticks to him.

Edited November 10 by Macklemore

[Incredulity 11665]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Right media bias doesn’t exist.

Trump has cast a voodoo spell over media and they do only his bidding by calling him a fascist.

 

Do I have that right? Bozo

Edited November 10 by Incredulity

[aggie08 21496]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Right media bias doesn’t exist.

[SeattleHorn 117]

7 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Right media bias doesn’t exist.

This is too stupid to be real. Off to the ignore list.

[mchookem 16327]

guys! there's a thread for this discussion...

 

 

this thread is for the American electorate getting exactly what they wanted. thank you. 

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

15 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

why do Republicans have such little regard for it.

They don't. That's why Trump called it an asset. That's why they talk about it all the time and use it so effectively. 

 

15 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I mean if it caters to my interests I should be for it.

You aren't the audience for it. The media that is actually mainstream  is for you. The legacy media reaches a legacy audience.

 

Edited November 10 by Bozo_Casanova

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

10 minutes ago, SeattleHorn said:

This is too stupid to be real. Off to the ignore list.

Icono is an Ignore List OG, unless you’re looking for insight on the BJs-for-meth trade.

[mchookem 16327]

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

22 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Trump has cast a voodoo spell over media and they do only his bidding by calling him a fascist.

 

Do I have that right? Bozo

No, not only, although that probably helps him considerably. They also cancel ad buys from opposition, frame his opponents and issues in terms his team defines, forces his opponents to react to whatever OUTRAGEOUS and "THIS IS NOT NORMAL" thing he does and says, and give him literally billions of dollars worth of earned media his opponents don't get. What did I say when people were making fun of the McDonald's stunt? I said "he's good at this."

17 minutes ago, mchookem said:

guys! there's a thread for this discussion...

 

 

this thread is for the American electorate getting exactly what they wanted. thank you. 

 

 

Agreed, I’m tired of batting these two around. 

[Thatguy 8686]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

This is the story, and pretty much the whole story.

Trump, Trumpism, and a resurgence of xenophobia and demonization of the "other" is not a product of Trumpism, MAGA, etc.  MAGA, Trumpism, and message board posters who gleefully jack off to the idea of going down to the border and shooting brown people are a product of WHO WE ARE.

Fighting back/arguing against that is clearly just yelling against the waves as they roll over us.  No point in talking about who we would like to be, who we pretend we are.  We are who we are.  This is who we are:

- Open statements by men of "your body, MY choice" to women: online, by male students to females in high schools and colleges, by advocacy groups demonstrating on college campuses.

- Gleeful statements and texts from friends and family members saying things like "glad that n***** b**** lost."

- Taunts to hispanic people, south asian people, and other minority groups of "your ass is gonna get deported."

- More open confrontations of people who are "foreign" looking or sounding in public of "go back to your country, you don't belong here."

- Open verbal statements, emails, and signs telling black people to "get ready to go back to the plantation" and numerous other shitty messages like that.

- Calling any and all gay and trans people "groomers" and "pedophiles" who should be taken care of by the law and otherwise.

 

And then, a big chunk of people who go along with that because either they are blind to it, think it won't really affect them, think that they can deal with the effects because the money pay off will be better, etc.  

TLDR: We are mostly one of two things - shitty, or okay with shittiness if we think we can skirt the effects/reap the benefits.

Light at the end of the tunnel-

All of what you wrote is true. However, I want to add to this. People are going to get hurt. Displaced. Even lose their lives. However, conservatives have never won.

January 1, 1863 there was a little thing called the Emancipation Proclamation. Conservatives were big mad. We fought a war. They lost. During the Reconstruction black people had a sliver of progress. We were free. We opened businesses. We even took places of office. Like now the conservatives got upset. They used "States Rights" to absolutely bury the black community for decades but it ultimately prevailed. They lost to women's rights. Gay rights. They have never won a battle against social progress. They've only succeeded in slowing it down momentarily. Even though things appear to be ugly right now, and they ARE very ugly, black people don't gain equal right without caring whites. Women don't gain equal rights without caring men. Gay people don't gain equal right without caring heteros. There are a lot of good people out there it's just hard to hear them through all the hate. Ultimately we are going to win this thing, we always do. Not without a lot of pain and suffering. Conservatives are going to do what they always do and make it so bad that people say enough. We are in the middle of our version of the 1950's. The 60's are coming.

[Goredho 17399]

21 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I'm stunned. I didn't know until yesterday this was a thing they did. All the neocon shit aside... why? What was the point? Is there a contingent of voters out there who care about Liz Cheney? WHO EVEN KNOWS WHO LIZ CHENEY IS!?!?

I am guessing the logic was that there were ~25% of Republican primary voters who didn’t want Trump and voted for Nikki Haley and they were hoping to sway a significant number of them to carry that over to a vote against Trump in the general election.  It obviously didn’t work.

[Brisketexan 105095]

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

Light at the end of the tunnel-

All of what you wrote is true. However, I want to add to this. People are going to get hurt. Displaced. Even lose their lives. However, conservatives have never won.

January 1, 1863 there was a little thing called the Emancipation Proclamation. Conservatives were big mad. We fought a war. They lost. During the Reconstruction black people had a sliver of progress. We were free. We opened businesses. We even took places of office. Like now the conservatives got upset. They used "States Rights" to absolutely bury the black community for decades but it ultimately prevailed. They lost to women's rights. Gay rights. They have never won a battle against social progress. They've only succeeded in slowing it down momentarily. Even though things appear to be ugly right now, and they ARE very ugly, black people don't gain equal right without caring whites. Women don't gain equal rights without caring men. Gay people don't gain equal right without caring heteros. There are a lot of good people out there it's just hard to hear them through all the hate. Ultimately we are going to win this thing, we always do. Not without a lot of pain and suffering. Conservatives are going to do what they always do and make it so bad that people say enough. We are in the middle of our version of the 1950's. The 60's are coming.

The bolded is my concern, dude.  Yes, there's another side of every bout of exceptional cruel stupidity.

It's the price that is paid to get there that is SUCH.  A FUCKING.  WASTE.

Oh, and the 60s were a fucking shitshow too.  It wasn't all hippies and peace and love with women with super hairy undercarriages.  It was violence and assassinations, too.  And other countries had their versions as well.   Let's hope we're only going through "the shit era of the 50s and 60s in the US" and not "the 1930s in Germany and Italy."  Because we are NOT different than those countries.  Not much at all, really.

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

9 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

We are in the middle of our version of the 1950's. The 60's are coming.

I understand your point, but I think you've got the Decade wrong. 2024 was our 1968, when the hippies and people who cared about social justice began to write off areas of the country they didn't care about and retreated to safe spaces like Austin and San Fransisco and LA, and a recent period of chaos ushered in a long,dark period of moral and sociocultural decline. 

Edited November 10 by Bozo_Casanova