Trump’s America

[Goofyboy 3326]

 
strike fear
same with making a list of military officers from Afghanistan, sends a message to the masses. message of fear and lets them know where the supreme power resides
 
dear leader !

You’re assuming the military folks aren’t laughing at that list. They aren’t exactly without power.

[Pancho 45527]

Looks like Mika and Morning Joe went to MAL to meet with turnip and get on board with coverage of state tv. 
 

 

[Biff Tannen 45778]

13 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

2.) Inflation now helps Dems. So just let him tank the economy. He’ll blame everyone else but he controls all levers of government. Maybe some political gravity still holds true.

Nope.  They will blame Dems and it will work.  People are too stupid.

[Red Five 41090]

12 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Looks like Mika and Morning Joe went to MAL to meet with turnip and get on board with coverage of state tv. 
 

 

WTF? Is this an attempt to stay out of jail?

[Gap03 3349]

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Looks like Mika and Morning Joe went to MAL to meet with turnip and get on board with coverage of state tv. 
 

Fucking Joe and Mika ...

[softlynow 1851]

13 minutes ago, Red Five said:

WTF? Is this an attempt to stay out of jail?

They know where this is headed. Kiss the ring now, maybe you keep your living/freedom/life. Cowardly and disgusting, but prudent if that’s who you are. Gonna see a lot more of that. 

[MissingInAction 25320]

On 11/16/2024 at 3:53 PM, David Dennison said:

This. This. This. So much this.

NIMBYism among upper income Democrats is shameful.

Yep. A friend chastised me for bitching about the poors using and fucking up the neighborhood pool. So I said I'd post flyers with directions to his pool. He was not amused.

[Pancho 45527]

[Red Five 41090]

46 minutes ago, softlynow said:

They know where this is headed. Kiss the ring now, maybe you keep your living/freedom/life. Cowardly and disgusting, but prudent if that’s who you are. Gonna see a lot more of that. 

Maybe they were representing the network. "Hey if you could also not put Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes in jail that would be great too."

Joy Reid would be ok though. 

[Francisco 2.0 32440]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/confronting-hate/aiming-to-radicalize-main-street-christian-nationalists-set-sights-on-tiny-jackson-county-tennessee

 

Quote

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WTVF) — They want to go back to an America before the civil rights movement "ruined everything." They want to kick out legal immigrants even if they became U.S. citizens decades ago. And they want to put women back where they think they belong.

If necessary to achieve their goals, they are prepared to accept a Protestant dictator who will rule according to their own interpretation of what it means to be a Christian.

Now, an exclusive NewsChannel 5 investigation has discovered that those Christian nationalists have set their sights on a remote Middle Tennessee county, hoping to attract hundreds, even thousands, of like-minded people from across the country as part of efforts, in the words of one activist, to “radicalize Main Street.”

 

Quote

That effort — with Christian nationalist podcasters Andrew Isker and C. Jay Engel leading the way — is targeting tiny Jackson County and the county seat of Gainesboro, located about 90 minutes northeast of Nashville in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. Census data shows Jackson County is home to an estimated 12,711 people.

"We're building a town, right? We're building a community there,”Isker said during a July podcast when he and Engel first announced their move to Tennessee.

And they are recruiting others to join them, hoping to spread their extremist ideology across the state of Tennessee.

 

Quote

"The question is, is there room for like-minded Christians and patriots in Tennessee? Yes, there's an imperative for like-minded Christians to gather and fight with us,”Engel said during an October podcast from Gainesboro.

"We need Christian nationalism in one state.”

Isker and Engel deny that their views are racist, while also claiming that “the very concept of ‘racism’ was literally a creation of communists.”

But NewsChannel 5's three-month investigation — reviewing hours of podcasts and poring over hundreds of social media posts — found that their views are not so different from the ideas espoused by the neo-Nazis and other white supremacists seen marching down Nashville streets in the past year, although they dress up their controversial notions with intellectual buzz words and call it Christian.

 

Spoiler

"If you strip it all down, they're saying the same thing – they are just saying it in a way that may be more acceptable to people,” said Kevin Riggs, pastor of Franklin Community Church. “At the end of the day, it's the same tired ideology of white supremacy."

Riggs, who has been sounding the alarm for years about the rise of Christian nationalism in Middle Tennessee, described Christian nationalism is "a Christianized-type of Sharia law.”

“It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist. It doesn't matter what, you are going to be forced to live by this narrow interpretation of Christian principles," he said.

Another Moscow, Idaho?
In its approach, the Jackson County project appears similar to the much-publicized efforts by Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson to turn Moscow, Idaho, into a “church town.” Isker graduated from a ministerial training program created by Wilson’s Christ Church.

The real estate component of the project is led by two related companies, New Founding and RidgeRunner, that promise buyers the potential to “be part of building a community with people who share your values.” The companies began with an initial project in nearby Burkesville, Kentucky, before announcing the Jackson County phase earlier this month.

New Founding CEO Nate Fischer has declared the principles of the U.S. Constitution are “long gone” and that Christian nationalism “represents a positive Christian vision for government.” Fischer’s partner, Josh Abbotoy, has claimed to have mixed feelings on the issue, although he tweeted that “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.”

Francisco Franco was a Catholic dictator who ruled over Spain from 1939 to 1975 and made Catholicism the official religion of the country.

Reached by text for his comment, Abbotoy responded: "lol you're such a hack."

According to property records, Abbotoy bought up 500 acres in the rolling hills on the Macon-Jackson County line, while a related corporation purchased an additional 100 acres near downtown Gainesboro. That corporation has also bought a small office building on East Hull Avenue in Gainesboro.

Isker and Engel, who are setting up a podcast studio in that office building, appear to have been recruited as ambassadors for the project. The pair claim their “Contra Mundum” podcast is the "Number One Christian Nationalist Podcast in the World.”

America for 'Heritage Americans'
As Isker and Engel see it, the only people who have a legitimate right to a homeland in the United States are “Heritage Americans,” which they typically depict on their social media posts with old Norman Rockwell images of White people, especially White men.

In a post that was pinned to the top of his X profile, Engel explained that his concept of Heritage America "affirms the domination and pre-eminence of European derived peoples, their institutions and their way of life." He also defined it as “an actual body of institutions created by a nexus of specific people, dominated and defined by Anglos and their children.”

Still, Engel said his idea of Heritage America also "includes the blacks of the Old South.”

"I would imagine, in most of those Norman Rockwell pictures, there aren't any depictions of people who look like me,” said Chris Williamson, the African-American pastor of the multiracial Strong Tower Bible Church in Nashville.

“According to them, if you are a descendant of slaves, you get to stay," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"So, they are defining my legacy, my entire legacy really on slavery,” Williamson responded. “I get to stay — even though I was brought here against my will and treated horrible through chattel slavery for nearly 250 years, but that's my heritage."

Even then, Engel wrote that his acceptance of Black Americans as “Heritage Americans” assumes they will not try to "leverage their experience for the purposes of political guilt."

"Really, you want to keep me in that place of inferior status with you,” Williamson responded. “I'm OK as long as I stay in line and accept how you define me. But these days of White men defining Black people, they're not happening anymore."

Pastor Riggs said he would put Isker and Engle into the category of “white Christian nationalists,” although the pair insists their views are about culture, not race.

'The 1960s ruined everything'
Still, Engel complained in one podcast that “all of our heroes were way more racist than we're allowed to be today.”

The two White men have denounced the efforts of Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King – and the Civil Rights movement, in general.

“You cannot have both MLK and Heritage America," Engel wrote in one social media post.

Isker argued — in all caps — “WE SHOULD TURN CIVIL RIGHTS BACK TO THE STATES."

They have celebrated images of Whites-only diners in the 1950s, with Engel proclaiming that "the 1960s ruined everything" and defending racial discrimination.

"Yeah, it's called freedom of association," Engel wrote.

And they mock historical incidents like the kidnapping and lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955.

Yet, they dismiss any criticism as people taking them too seriously.

In one podcast, Engel read one critic’s reference to “Isker’s objections to the Civil Rights Act, his dismissiveness of the Emmett Till murder and the broader racial issues.”

Isker broke into prolonged laughter.

“Yeah, that's funny,” Engel agreed. “That's funny because that whole controversy was like entirely a meme controversy.”

“I know,” Isker answered. “It's like fun, man. Like, yeah, anyway.”

“You get in trouble for having fun,” Engel continued.

Chris Williamson said the two podcasters “have done nothing but disguise white supremacy in the guise of Christian nationalism.”

“So, call it what it is. It's white supremacy — nothing Christian about it," the Nashville pastor added.

For Black History Month earlier this year, Engel responded with his own celebration of what he called "Heritage History Month," holding up white supremacist Sam Francis as someone "who either shaped or defended our European and American heritage."

Among his writings, Francis suggested that "if whites wanted to do so, they could dictate a solution to the racial problem tomorrow," partly by "imposing fertility controls on non-whites." He called for "an uncompromising assertion of white will" in the country.

"It's repulsive that people would think of me and people who look like me in such degrading ways,” Pastor Williamson responded.

"And yet they claim to be Christian, Christian nationalists," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"Key word is ‘claim.’" Williamson answered.

'America for Americans'
Engel's distaste for people who don't look like him even extends to Vivek Ramaswamy. The former GOP presidential candidate's Hindu parents immigrated to the U.S. from India.

In one podcast, Engel expressed support for Ramaswamy’s ideas but declared that he was still “hesitant” about him, given his Indian heritage.

“I wish we had someone – a Heritage American – that was as passionate about, you know, our people," he added.

In a social media post, Engel also suggested Ramaswamy might be a “plant” who would “finish the conquest of America by the non-Western world.”

“Peoples like Indians, or South East (sic) Asians or Ecuadorians or immigrated Africans are the least capable of fitting in and should be sent home immediately,” Engel wrote in the post pinned to his X profile.

Similarly, Isker has posted, "Foreigners out, foreigners out, America for Americans, foreigners out."

He also appeared to endorse the idea that any foreign-born person granted citizenship since 1965 should be "subject to review," including whether they have worked "for Left causes."

"Deported for anti-Heritage American activities," Isker added.

Riggs said such talk appears to be motivated by what has been called the “browning of America.”

“Part of this is coming out of fear because we are moving closer and closer to that day where the White European Christian is the minority or the new minority when you add up all the other minorities,” the Franklin pastor added.

“So, they are losing power, and they are trying to stop that, as well."

Isker and Engel's rhetoric – “They hate White Christian men, period, end of story” – is sometimes reminiscent of the neo-Nazis who marched through Nashville earlier this year chanting, “They hate White men, deport every Mexican.”

And their controversial views are not limited to immigrants.

'I hate democracy'
“People who call me racist are innately incapable of comprehending the extent to which I detest the specific impact of college-educated White women on the culture of the world around me,” Engel said in a social media post.

He also celebrated the fact that he had never had a female boss.

“They’re obnoxious and emotional,” Engel wrote, saying he knows “how women are, especially working ones.” Men, he argued, “need to propagandize your wife, training her to like the things you do.”

Isker wrote: “You can have either women’s liberation or civilization, not both” and “no one can give me an argument why universal suffrage is good.”

Engel agreed, saying: “I think it’s politically best to have conservatives in power. And blacks and women vote liberal more often than White men.”

They reject any notion of Jewishness in modern society. Isker claimed in one post that “Jew and Gentile as categories of people has ceased to exist. There are now only Christians and unbelievers.” He followed up, “Jesus was the final, true Jew.”

And they are offended by the idea of mosques blasting out the Muslim call to prayer.

"That stuff cannot be happening in your country, right? — they have to go back," Isker said in a podcast.

Both have said that they “hate democracy.” Engel said democracy had "destroyed my way of life and my heritage and my freedoms."

On social media, Engel has expressed support for a “Protestant Franco or Appalachian Pinochet,” and he applauded Texas legislation “to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to ever win an election in the state.”

On LGBTQ issues, Engel has stated: “Gay people need to work on not being gay and then we can employ them. Pretty simple.”

And he has advocated “making the journalists concerned,” claimed that journalists are “barely human” and argued for a new Trail of Tears for “relocating the journalists.”

“My job is to normalize dissident right-wing talking points to the normies,” Engel wrote in a post on X. “This is the function of the vanguard; this is the strategy of instilling a counter-revolutionary ethos in Middle America.

"We will tear off Liberal scales from their eyes and radicalize Main Street.”

Engel also posted, "Many of us actually support the breakup and crushing of the United States regime, and we are willing to use political means to do it."

And Isker wrote, "The institutions matter. The mainline churches matter. One day we will retake them. By force if necessary."

Gaining influence in Tennessee
For the podcasters, the Jackson County project is not just about moving to a place where the people look and think like them. They also imagine creating a political force that has an impact on communities like Gainesboro, eventually extending their reach statewide."

“If you have towns that we're going to be building — where there are a lot of people that are very politically motivated and very well organized and are out-punching, you know, their weight class in terms of influence — you can have as much influence as one of the big cities in Tennessee,” Isker said.

Engel has already had "lunch with fellow patriots in Nashville" about ways to counter what he calls "the Great Replacement," and he promised a "multi-year project to put immense pressure on the Tennessee GOP and the governor on immigration issues specifically."

And on election night, the pair hosted a nearly nine-hour podcast from Gainesboro, bringing in some of the biggest names from the Christian nationalist community, including Dusty Deevers, Charles Haywood, Stephen Wolfe and William Wolfe.

As a potentially decisive Donald Trump victory became clear, William Wolfe celebrated the prospect for the authoritarian “Red Caesar” that some Christian nationalists hope will arise.

“If he does that then, you know, Red Caesar, mandate from heaven, rock and roll, let's go," said Wolfe, who served in senior roles in the first Trump administration.

During that podcast, developer Josh Abbotoy also made live appearances from an election watch party that he said his group hosted for the Jackson County Republican Party.

Now, Isker and Engel’s critics worry about where such efforts might lead the country.

"I don't want to be a doom and gloom type of person – my hope is still in Christ,” Riggs said. “But what I see on a practical level scares me if this kind of thing keeps growing and takes root in our country."

Williamson agreed.

"When I hear people talk about Jesus and their Jesus does not invite people to the table of grace, when their Jesus excludes people, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus. That’s something else,” he added.

“I don't recognize that, and I don't want that kind of Jesus leading our nation."

Reached for comment through X, Isker and Engel both issued written statements, lashing out at NewsChannel 5 for even asking about their controversial beliefs. They ignored questions about the similarities between their views and the views of neo-Nazis and pointed to the November election as evidence that such concerns are meaningless.

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as ‘Nazi’ and ‘white supremacist’ has been thoroughly rejected by the American people,” Isker said in a direct message.

Engel said his views “stem from American history” and that “it is love for, and duty to, America that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online.”

Andrew Isker's statement:

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as “Nazi” and “white supremacist” has been thoroughly rejected by the American people. Because of histrionics like this, fewer and fewer people trust anything you say. A genuine journalist distinguishing himself from a hack Antifa activist would be concerned with the hundreds of thousands of patriotic, conservative Americans, like myself and CJay, who have left their blue states for refuge in Tennessee. That would be a story in the public interest, not my milquetoast social media posts.”

C.Jay Engel's statement:

“It is staggering that while the Democrats spent enormous sums of money and media resources hysterically calling Trump and his 70+ million voters Nazis – only to be handed the most devastating defeat in decades – that the media still refuses to reflect on the implications of their narrative failures. It was the media’s outlandish behavior, just as much as Harris herself, that was soundly defeated last week. The framing of your request for comments bears this out, and my response is that all of my views stem from American history – from Coolidge, Hoover, and Eisenhower’s immigration initiatives to Samuel Huntington’s moderate definition of the American ethos to Richard Nixon’s deep distrust of the Western journalist class. It is love for, and duty to, America and its people that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online – whether said in seriousness or obvious internet jest.”

 

[softlynow 1851]

2 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Maybe they were representing the network. "Hey if you could also not put Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes in jail that would be great too."

Joy Reid would be ok though. 

They’ll all bend the knee. They’re not journalists, leaders or intellectuals, they’re millionaire entertainers. 

[David Dennison 19133]

20 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/confronting-hate/aiming-to-radicalize-main-street-christian-nationalists-set-sights-on-tiny-jackson-county-tennessee

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

"If you strip it all down, they're saying the same thing – they are just saying it in a way that may be more acceptable to people,” said Kevin Riggs, pastor of Franklin Community Church. “At the end of the day, it's the same tired ideology of white supremacy."

Riggs, who has been sounding the alarm for years about the rise of Christian nationalism in Middle Tennessee, described Christian nationalism is "a Christianized-type of Sharia law.”

“It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist. It doesn't matter what, you are going to be forced to live by this narrow interpretation of Christian principles," he said.

Another Moscow, Idaho?
In its approach, the Jackson County project appears similar to the much-publicized efforts by Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson to turn Moscow, Idaho, into a “church town.” Isker graduated from a ministerial training program created by Wilson’s Christ Church.

The real estate component of the project is led by two related companies, New Founding and RidgeRunner, that promise buyers the potential to “be part of building a community with people who share your values.” The companies began with an initial project in nearby Burkesville, Kentucky, before announcing the Jackson County phase earlier this month.

New Founding CEO Nate Fischer has declared the principles of the U.S. Constitution are “long gone” and that Christian nationalism “represents a positive Christian vision for government.” Fischer’s partner, Josh Abbotoy, has claimed to have mixed feelings on the issue, although he tweeted that “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.”

Francisco Franco was a Catholic dictator who ruled over Spain from 1939 to 1975 and made Catholicism the official religion of the country.

Reached by text for his comment, Abbotoy responded: "lol you're such a hack."

According to property records, Abbotoy bought up 500 acres in the rolling hills on the Macon-Jackson County line, while a related corporation purchased an additional 100 acres near downtown Gainesboro. That corporation has also bought a small office building on East Hull Avenue in Gainesboro.

Isker and Engel, who are setting up a podcast studio in that office building, appear to have been recruited as ambassadors for the project. The pair claim their “Contra Mundum” podcast is the "Number One Christian Nationalist Podcast in the World.”

America for 'Heritage Americans'
As Isker and Engel see it, the only people who have a legitimate right to a homeland in the United States are “Heritage Americans,” which they typically depict on their social media posts with old Norman Rockwell images of White people, especially White men.

In a post that was pinned to the top of his X profile, Engel explained that his concept of Heritage America "affirms the domination and pre-eminence of European derived peoples, their institutions and their way of life." He also defined it as “an actual body of institutions created by a nexus of specific people, dominated and defined by Anglos and their children.”

Still, Engel said his idea of Heritage America also "includes the blacks of the Old South.”

"I would imagine, in most of those Norman Rockwell pictures, there aren't any depictions of people who look like me,” said Chris Williamson, the African-American pastor of the multiracial Strong Tower Bible Church in Nashville.

“According to them, if you are a descendant of slaves, you get to stay," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"So, they are defining my legacy, my entire legacy really on slavery,” Williamson responded. “I get to stay — even though I was brought here against my will and treated horrible through chattel slavery for nearly 250 years, but that's my heritage."

Even then, Engel wrote that his acceptance of Black Americans as “Heritage Americans” assumes they will not try to "leverage their experience for the purposes of political guilt."

"Really, you want to keep me in that place of inferior status with you,” Williamson responded. “I'm OK as long as I stay in line and accept how you define me. But these days of White men defining Black people, they're not happening anymore."

Pastor Riggs said he would put Isker and Engle into the category of “white Christian nationalists,” although the pair insists their views are about culture, not race.

'The 1960s ruined everything'
Still, Engel complained in one podcast that “all of our heroes were way more racist than we're allowed to be today.”

The two White men have denounced the efforts of Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King – and the Civil Rights movement, in general.

“You cannot have both MLK and Heritage America," Engel wrote in one social media post.

Isker argued — in all caps — “WE SHOULD TURN CIVIL RIGHTS BACK TO THE STATES."

They have celebrated images of Whites-only diners in the 1950s, with Engel proclaiming that "the 1960s ruined everything" and defending racial discrimination.

"Yeah, it's called freedom of association," Engel wrote.

And they mock historical incidents like the kidnapping and lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955.

Yet, they dismiss any criticism as people taking them too seriously.

In one podcast, Engel read one critic’s reference to “Isker’s objections to the Civil Rights Act, his dismissiveness of the Emmett Till murder and the broader racial issues.”

Isker broke into prolonged laughter.

“Yeah, that's funny,” Engel agreed. “That's funny because that whole controversy was like entirely a meme controversy.”

“I know,” Isker answered. “It's like fun, man. Like, yeah, anyway.”

“You get in trouble for having fun,” Engel continued.

Chris Williamson said the two podcasters “have done nothing but disguise white supremacy in the guise of Christian nationalism.”

“So, call it what it is. It's white supremacy — nothing Christian about it," the Nashville pastor added.

For Black History Month earlier this year, Engel responded with his own celebration of what he called "Heritage History Month," holding up white supremacist Sam Francis as someone "who either shaped or defended our European and American heritage."

Among his writings, Francis suggested that "if whites wanted to do so, they could dictate a solution to the racial problem tomorrow," partly by "imposing fertility controls on non-whites." He called for "an uncompromising assertion of white will" in the country.

"It's repulsive that people would think of me and people who look like me in such degrading ways,” Pastor Williamson responded.

"And yet they claim to be Christian, Christian nationalists," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"Key word is ‘claim.’" Williamson answered.

'America for Americans'
Engel's distaste for people who don't look like him even extends to Vivek Ramaswamy. The former GOP presidential candidate's Hindu parents immigrated to the U.S. from India.

In one podcast, Engel expressed support for Ramaswamy’s ideas but declared that he was still “hesitant” about him, given his Indian heritage.

“I wish we had someone – a Heritage American – that was as passionate about, you know, our people," he added.

In a social media post, Engel also suggested Ramaswamy might be a “plant” who would “finish the conquest of America by the non-Western world.”

“Peoples like Indians, or South East (sic) Asians or Ecuadorians or immigrated Africans are the least capable of fitting in and should be sent home immediately,” Engel wrote in the post pinned to his X profile.

Similarly, Isker has posted, "Foreigners out, foreigners out, America for Americans, foreigners out."

He also appeared to endorse the idea that any foreign-born person granted citizenship since 1965 should be "subject to review," including whether they have worked "for Left causes."

"Deported for anti-Heritage American activities," Isker added.

Riggs said such talk appears to be motivated by what has been called the “browning of America.”

“Part of this is coming out of fear because we are moving closer and closer to that day where the White European Christian is the minority or the new minority when you add up all the other minorities,” the Franklin pastor added.

“So, they are losing power, and they are trying to stop that, as well."

Isker and Engel's rhetoric – “They hate White Christian men, period, end of story” – is sometimes reminiscent of the neo-Nazis who marched through Nashville earlier this year chanting, “They hate White men, deport every Mexican.”

And their controversial views are not limited to immigrants.

'I hate democracy'
“People who call me racist are innately incapable of comprehending the extent to which I detest the specific impact of college-educated White women on the culture of the world around me,” Engel said in a social media post.

He also celebrated the fact that he had never had a female boss.

“They’re obnoxious and emotional,” Engel wrote, saying he knows “how women are, especially working ones.” Men, he argued, “need to propagandize your wife, training her to like the things you do.”

Isker wrote: “You can have either women’s liberation or civilization, not both” and “no one can give me an argument why universal suffrage is good.”

Engel agreed, saying: “I think it’s politically best to have conservatives in power. And blacks and women vote liberal more often than White men.”

They reject any notion of Jewishness in modern society. Isker claimed in one post that “Jew and Gentile as categories of people has ceased to exist. There are now only Christians and unbelievers.” He followed up, “Jesus was the final, true Jew.”

And they are offended by the idea of mosques blasting out the Muslim call to prayer.

"That stuff cannot be happening in your country, right? — they have to go back," Isker said in a podcast.

Both have said that they “hate democracy.” Engel said democracy had "destroyed my way of life and my heritage and my freedoms."

On social media, Engel has expressed support for a “Protestant Franco or Appalachian Pinochet,” and he applauded Texas legislation “to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to ever win an election in the state.”

On LGBTQ issues, Engel has stated: “Gay people need to work on not being gay and then we can employ them. Pretty simple.”

And he has advocated “making the journalists concerned,” claimed that journalists are “barely human” and argued for a new Trail of Tears for “relocating the journalists.”

“My job is to normalize dissident right-wing talking points to the normies,” Engel wrote in a post on X. “This is the function of the vanguard; this is the strategy of instilling a counter-revolutionary ethos in Middle America.

"We will tear off Liberal scales from their eyes and radicalize Main Street.”

Engel also posted, "Many of us actually support the breakup and crushing of the United States regime, and we are willing to use political means to do it."

And Isker wrote, "The institutions matter. The mainline churches matter. One day we will retake them. By force if necessary."

Gaining influence in Tennessee
For the podcasters, the Jackson County project is not just about moving to a place where the people look and think like them. They also imagine creating a political force that has an impact on communities like Gainesboro, eventually extending their reach statewide."

“If you have towns that we're going to be building — where there are a lot of people that are very politically motivated and very well organized and are out-punching, you know, their weight class in terms of influence — you can have as much influence as one of the big cities in Tennessee,” Isker said.

Engel has already had "lunch with fellow patriots in Nashville" about ways to counter what he calls "the Great Replacement," and he promised a "multi-year project to put immense pressure on the Tennessee GOP and the governor on immigration issues specifically."

And on election night, the pair hosted a nearly nine-hour podcast from Gainesboro, bringing in some of the biggest names from the Christian nationalist community, including Dusty Deevers, Charles Haywood, Stephen Wolfe and William Wolfe.

As a potentially decisive Donald Trump victory became clear, William Wolfe celebrated the prospect for the authoritarian “Red Caesar” that some Christian nationalists hope will arise.

“If he does that then, you know, Red Caesar, mandate from heaven, rock and roll, let's go," said Wolfe, who served in senior roles in the first Trump administration.

During that podcast, developer Josh Abbotoy also made live appearances from an election watch party that he said his group hosted for the Jackson County Republican Party.

Now, Isker and Engel’s critics worry about where such efforts might lead the country.

"I don't want to be a doom and gloom type of person – my hope is still in Christ,” Riggs said. “But what I see on a practical level scares me if this kind of thing keeps growing and takes root in our country."

Williamson agreed.

"When I hear people talk about Jesus and their Jesus does not invite people to the table of grace, when their Jesus excludes people, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus. That’s something else,” he added.

“I don't recognize that, and I don't want that kind of Jesus leading our nation."

Reached for comment through X, Isker and Engel both issued written statements, lashing out at NewsChannel 5 for even asking about their controversial beliefs. They ignored questions about the similarities between their views and the views of neo-Nazis and pointed to the November election as evidence that such concerns are meaningless.

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as ‘Nazi’ and ‘white supremacist’ has been thoroughly rejected by the American people,” Isker said in a direct message.

Engel said his views “stem from American history” and that “it is love for, and duty to, America that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online.”

Andrew Isker's statement:

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as “Nazi” and “white supremacist” has been thoroughly rejected by the American people. Because of histrionics like this, fewer and fewer people trust anything you say. A genuine journalist distinguishing himself from a hack Antifa activist would be concerned with the hundreds of thousands of patriotic, conservative Americans, like myself and CJay, who have left their blue states for refuge in Tennessee. That would be a story in the public interest, not my milquetoast social media posts.”

C.Jay Engel's statement:

“It is staggering that while the Democrats spent enormous sums of money and media resources hysterically calling Trump and his 70+ million voters Nazis – only to be handed the most devastating defeat in decades – that the media still refuses to reflect on the implications of their narrative failures. It was the media’s outlandish behavior, just as much as Harris herself, that was soundly defeated last week. The framing of your request for comments bears this out, and my response is that all of my views stem from American history – from Coolidge, Hoover, and Eisenhower’s immigration initiatives to Samuel Huntington’s moderate definition of the American ethos to Richard Nixon’s deep distrust of the Western journalist class. It is love for, and duty to, America and its people that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online – whether said in seriousness or obvious internet jest.”

 

[Pancho 45527]

27 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/confronting-hate/aiming-to-radicalize-main-street-christian-nationalists-set-sights-on-tiny-jackson-county-tennessee

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

"If you strip it all down, they're saying the same thing – they are just saying it in a way that may be more acceptable to people,” said Kevin Riggs, pastor of Franklin Community Church. “At the end of the day, it's the same tired ideology of white supremacy."

Riggs, who has been sounding the alarm for years about the rise of Christian nationalism in Middle Tennessee, described Christian nationalism is "a Christianized-type of Sharia law.”

“It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist. It doesn't matter what, you are going to be forced to live by this narrow interpretation of Christian principles," he said.

Another Moscow, Idaho?
In its approach, the Jackson County project appears similar to the much-publicized efforts by Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson to turn Moscow, Idaho, into a “church town.” Isker graduated from a ministerial training program created by Wilson’s Christ Church.

The real estate component of the project is led by two related companies, New Founding and RidgeRunner, that promise buyers the potential to “be part of building a community with people who share your values.” The companies began with an initial project in nearby Burkesville, Kentucky, before announcing the Jackson County phase earlier this month.

New Founding CEO Nate Fischer has declared the principles of the U.S. Constitution are “long gone” and that Christian nationalism “represents a positive Christian vision for government.” Fischer’s partner, Josh Abbotoy, has claimed to have mixed feelings on the issue, although he tweeted that “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.”

Francisco Franco was a Catholic dictator who ruled over Spain from 1939 to 1975 and made Catholicism the official religion of the country.

Reached by text for his comment, Abbotoy responded: "lol you're such a hack."

According to property records, Abbotoy bought up 500 acres in the rolling hills on the Macon-Jackson County line, while a related corporation purchased an additional 100 acres near downtown Gainesboro. That corporation has also bought a small office building on East Hull Avenue in Gainesboro.

Isker and Engel, who are setting up a podcast studio in that office building, appear to have been recruited as ambassadors for the project. The pair claim their “Contra Mundum” podcast is the "Number One Christian Nationalist Podcast in the World.”

America for 'Heritage Americans'
As Isker and Engel see it, the only people who have a legitimate right to a homeland in the United States are “Heritage Americans,” which they typically depict on their social media posts with old Norman Rockwell images of White people, especially White men.

In a post that was pinned to the top of his X profile, Engel explained that his concept of Heritage America "affirms the domination and pre-eminence of European derived peoples, their institutions and their way of life." He also defined it as “an actual body of institutions created by a nexus of specific people, dominated and defined by Anglos and their children.”

Still, Engel said his idea of Heritage America also "includes the blacks of the Old South.”

"I would imagine, in most of those Norman Rockwell pictures, there aren't any depictions of people who look like me,” said Chris Williamson, the African-American pastor of the multiracial Strong Tower Bible Church in Nashville.

“According to them, if you are a descendant of slaves, you get to stay," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"So, they are defining my legacy, my entire legacy really on slavery,” Williamson responded. “I get to stay — even though I was brought here against my will and treated horrible through chattel slavery for nearly 250 years, but that's my heritage."

Even then, Engel wrote that his acceptance of Black Americans as “Heritage Americans” assumes they will not try to "leverage their experience for the purposes of political guilt."

"Really, you want to keep me in that place of inferior status with you,” Williamson responded. “I'm OK as long as I stay in line and accept how you define me. But these days of White men defining Black people, they're not happening anymore."

Pastor Riggs said he would put Isker and Engle into the category of “white Christian nationalists,” although the pair insists their views are about culture, not race.

'The 1960s ruined everything'
Still, Engel complained in one podcast that “all of our heroes were way more racist than we're allowed to be today.”

The two White men have denounced the efforts of Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King – and the Civil Rights movement, in general.

“You cannot have both MLK and Heritage America," Engel wrote in one social media post.

Isker argued — in all caps — “WE SHOULD TURN CIVIL RIGHTS BACK TO THE STATES."

They have celebrated images of Whites-only diners in the 1950s, with Engel proclaiming that "the 1960s ruined everything" and defending racial discrimination.

"Yeah, it's called freedom of association," Engel wrote.

And they mock historical incidents like the kidnapping and lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955.

Yet, they dismiss any criticism as people taking them too seriously.

In one podcast, Engel read one critic’s reference to “Isker’s objections to the Civil Rights Act, his dismissiveness of the Emmett Till murder and the broader racial issues.”

Isker broke into prolonged laughter.

“Yeah, that's funny,” Engel agreed. “That's funny because that whole controversy was like entirely a meme controversy.”

“I know,” Isker answered. “It's like fun, man. Like, yeah, anyway.”

“You get in trouble for having fun,” Engel continued.

Chris Williamson said the two podcasters “have done nothing but disguise white supremacy in the guise of Christian nationalism.”

“So, call it what it is. It's white supremacy — nothing Christian about it," the Nashville pastor added.

For Black History Month earlier this year, Engel responded with his own celebration of what he called "Heritage History Month," holding up white supremacist Sam Francis as someone "who either shaped or defended our European and American heritage."

Among his writings, Francis suggested that "if whites wanted to do so, they could dictate a solution to the racial problem tomorrow," partly by "imposing fertility controls on non-whites." He called for "an uncompromising assertion of white will" in the country.

"It's repulsive that people would think of me and people who look like me in such degrading ways,” Pastor Williamson responded.

"And yet they claim to be Christian, Christian nationalists," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"Key word is ‘claim.’" Williamson answered.

'America for Americans'
Engel's distaste for people who don't look like him even extends to Vivek Ramaswamy. The former GOP presidential candidate's Hindu parents immigrated to the U.S. from India.

In one podcast, Engel expressed support for Ramaswamy’s ideas but declared that he was still “hesitant” about him, given his Indian heritage.

“I wish we had someone – a Heritage American – that was as passionate about, you know, our people," he added.

In a social media post, Engel also suggested Ramaswamy might be a “plant” who would “finish the conquest of America by the non-Western world.”

“Peoples like Indians, or South East (sic) Asians or Ecuadorians or immigrated Africans are the least capable of fitting in and should be sent home immediately,” Engel wrote in the post pinned to his X profile.

Similarly, Isker has posted, "Foreigners out, foreigners out, America for Americans, foreigners out."

He also appeared to endorse the idea that any foreign-born person granted citizenship since 1965 should be "subject to review," including whether they have worked "for Left causes."

"Deported for anti-Heritage American activities," Isker added.

Riggs said such talk appears to be motivated by what has been called the “browning of America.”

“Part of this is coming out of fear because we are moving closer and closer to that day where the White European Christian is the minority or the new minority when you add up all the other minorities,” the Franklin pastor added.

“So, they are losing power, and they are trying to stop that, as well."

Isker and Engel's rhetoric – “They hate White Christian men, period, end of story” – is sometimes reminiscent of the neo-Nazis who marched through Nashville earlier this year chanting, “They hate White men, deport every Mexican.”

And their controversial views are not limited to immigrants.

'I hate democracy'
“People who call me racist are innately incapable of comprehending the extent to which I detest the specific impact of college-educated White women on the culture of the world around me,” Engel said in a social media post.

He also celebrated the fact that he had never had a female boss.

“They’re obnoxious and emotional,” Engel wrote, saying he knows “how women are, especially working ones.” Men, he argued, “need to propagandize your wife, training her to like the things you do.”

Isker wrote: “You can have either women’s liberation or civilization, not both” and “no one can give me an argument why universal suffrage is good.”

Engel agreed, saying: “I think it’s politically best to have conservatives in power. And blacks and women vote liberal more often than White men.”

They reject any notion of Jewishness in modern society. Isker claimed in one post that “Jew and Gentile as categories of people has ceased to exist. There are now only Christians and unbelievers.” He followed up, “Jesus was the final, true Jew.”

And they are offended by the idea of mosques blasting out the Muslim call to prayer.

"That stuff cannot be happening in your country, right? — they have to go back," Isker said in a podcast.

Both have said that they “hate democracy.” Engel said democracy had "destroyed my way of life and my heritage and my freedoms."

On social media, Engel has expressed support for a “Protestant Franco or Appalachian Pinochet,” and he applauded Texas legislation “to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to ever win an election in the state.”

On LGBTQ issues, Engel has stated: “Gay people need to work on not being gay and then we can employ them. Pretty simple.”

And he has advocated “making the journalists concerned,” claimed that journalists are “barely human” and argued for a new Trail of Tears for “relocating the journalists.”

“My job is to normalize dissident right-wing talking points to the normies,” Engel wrote in a post on X. “This is the function of the vanguard; this is the strategy of instilling a counter-revolutionary ethos in Middle America.

"We will tear off Liberal scales from their eyes and radicalize Main Street.”

Engel also posted, "Many of us actually support the breakup and crushing of the United States regime, and we are willing to use political means to do it."

And Isker wrote, "The institutions matter. The mainline churches matter. One day we will retake them. By force if necessary."

Gaining influence in Tennessee
For the podcasters, the Jackson County project is not just about moving to a place where the people look and think like them. They also imagine creating a political force that has an impact on communities like Gainesboro, eventually extending their reach statewide."

“If you have towns that we're going to be building — where there are a lot of people that are very politically motivated and very well organized and are out-punching, you know, their weight class in terms of influence — you can have as much influence as one of the big cities in Tennessee,” Isker said.

Engel has already had "lunch with fellow patriots in Nashville" about ways to counter what he calls "the Great Replacement," and he promised a "multi-year project to put immense pressure on the Tennessee GOP and the governor on immigration issues specifically."

And on election night, the pair hosted a nearly nine-hour podcast from Gainesboro, bringing in some of the biggest names from the Christian nationalist community, including Dusty Deevers, Charles Haywood, Stephen Wolfe and William Wolfe.

As a potentially decisive Donald Trump victory became clear, William Wolfe celebrated the prospect for the authoritarian “Red Caesar” that some Christian nationalists hope will arise.

“If he does that then, you know, Red Caesar, mandate from heaven, rock and roll, let's go," said Wolfe, who served in senior roles in the first Trump administration.

During that podcast, developer Josh Abbotoy also made live appearances from an election watch party that he said his group hosted for the Jackson County Republican Party.

Now, Isker and Engel’s critics worry about where such efforts might lead the country.

"I don't want to be a doom and gloom type of person – my hope is still in Christ,” Riggs said. “But what I see on a practical level scares me if this kind of thing keeps growing and takes root in our country."

Williamson agreed.

"When I hear people talk about Jesus and their Jesus does not invite people to the table of grace, when their Jesus excludes people, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus. That’s something else,” he added.

“I don't recognize that, and I don't want that kind of Jesus leading our nation."

Reached for comment through X, Isker and Engel both issued written statements, lashing out at NewsChannel 5 for even asking about their controversial beliefs. They ignored questions about the similarities between their views and the views of neo-Nazis and pointed to the November election as evidence that such concerns are meaningless.

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as ‘Nazi’ and ‘white supremacist’ has been thoroughly rejected by the American people,” Isker said in a direct message.

Engel said his views “stem from American history” and that “it is love for, and duty to, America that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online.”

Andrew Isker's statement:

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as “Nazi” and “white supremacist” has been thoroughly rejected by the American people. Because of histrionics like this, fewer and fewer people trust anything you say. A genuine journalist distinguishing himself from a hack Antifa activist would be concerned with the hundreds of thousands of patriotic, conservative Americans, like myself and CJay, who have left their blue states for refuge in Tennessee. That would be a story in the public interest, not my milquetoast social media posts.”

C.Jay Engel's statement:

“It is staggering that while the Democrats spent enormous sums of money and media resources hysterically calling Trump and his 70+ million voters Nazis – only to be handed the most devastating defeat in decades – that the media still refuses to reflect on the implications of their narrative failures. It was the media’s outlandish behavior, just as much as Harris herself, that was soundly defeated last week. The framing of your request for comments bears this out, and my response is that all of my views stem from American history – from Coolidge, Hoover, and Eisenhower’s immigration initiatives to Samuel Huntington’s moderate definition of the American ethos to Richard Nixon’s deep distrust of the Western journalist class. It is love for, and duty to, America and its people that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online – whether said in seriousness or obvious internet jest.”

 

 

So they are going to test-run Gilead in this small Tennessee county, and everyone is just going to look the other way?

[DDD Dad 14376]

12 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

So they are going to test-run Gilead in this small Tennessee county, and everyone is just going to look the other way?

[G650 14303]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/18/more-americans-get-news-from-social-media-influencers.html

[wood 11620]

20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

https://www.popehat.com/p/refuge-in-kakistocracy

That was excellent, and I loved this response as well ...

Quote

Let's politely ask questions which engage "held my nose" and non-voters NOW so that their baselines alter before the next election. 
 

"How can I teach my grandchildren about morality when the religious right has obviously abandoned principles against lying, cheating, adultery & hate?" 
 
"Why are good people on the same team as people who send texts to Black Americans re-threatening slavery? 
 
“What happens to American citizens accidentally caught up (hopefully) in $88 billion mass deportations? 
 
“Why is someone credibly accused of minor sex trafficking – and under House ethics investigation – an attorney general nominee?” 
 
Please begin communicating. Please try to politely question so we're nudging people towards a better America NOW, not just immediately prior to election. Don't waste a day.  
 
Behavioral change (not-voting) is a long-term process. Maybe it’ll take 3 or 4 to pass along (or adapt) polite questions before getting to non-voter, but it certainly won't if we don’t ask. 

 

[tx 3 putt 77965]

4 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

You’re assuming the military folks aren’t laughing at that list. They aren’t exactly without power.

 

i’d bet the military is 90% maga

[LCHorn 2660]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

i’d bet the military is 90% maga

No way, too high.  
 

I will say that, like on this board, the election has them out of their caves and public with their support, at least on the USMC social media groups I’m in.  

[Pancho 45527]

 

[tx 3 putt 77965]

19 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

No way, too high.  
 

I will say that, like on this board, the election has them out of their caves and public with their support, at least on the USMC social media groups I’m in.  

 

[tx 3 putt 77965]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

 

church of satan has their oklahoma game plan ready  ….

 

[wood 11620]

14 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/confronting-hate/aiming-to-radicalize-main-street-christian-nationalists-set-sights-on-tiny-jackson-county-tennessee

  Reveal hidden contents

"If you strip it all down, they're saying the same thing – they are just saying it in a way that may be more acceptable to people,” said Kevin Riggs, pastor of Franklin Community Church. “At the end of the day, it's the same tired ideology of white supremacy."

Riggs, who has been sounding the alarm for years about the rise of Christian nationalism in Middle Tennessee, described Christian nationalism is "a Christianized-type of Sharia law.”

“It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist. It doesn't matter what, you are going to be forced to live by this narrow interpretation of Christian principles," he said.

Another Moscow, Idaho?
In its approach, the Jackson County project appears similar to the much-publicized efforts by Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson to turn Moscow, Idaho, into a “church town.” Isker graduated from a ministerial training program created by Wilson’s Christ Church.

The real estate component of the project is led by two related companies, New Founding and RidgeRunner, that promise buyers the potential to “be part of building a community with people who share your values.” The companies began with an initial project in nearby Burkesville, Kentucky, before announcing the Jackson County phase earlier this month.

New Founding CEO Nate Fischer has declared the principles of the U.S. Constitution are “long gone” and that Christian nationalism “represents a positive Christian vision for government.” Fischer’s partner, Josh Abbotoy, has claimed to have mixed feelings on the issue, although he tweeted that “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.”

Francisco Franco was a Catholic dictator who ruled over Spain from 1939 to 1975 and made Catholicism the official religion of the country.

Reached by text for his comment, Abbotoy responded: "lol you're such a hack."

According to property records, Abbotoy bought up 500 acres in the rolling hills on the Macon-Jackson County line, while a related corporation purchased an additional 100 acres near downtown Gainesboro. That corporation has also bought a small office building on East Hull Avenue in Gainesboro.

Isker and Engel, who are setting up a podcast studio in that office building, appear to have been recruited as ambassadors for the project. The pair claim their “Contra Mundum” podcast is the "Number One Christian Nationalist Podcast in the World.”

America for 'Heritage Americans'
As Isker and Engel see it, the only people who have a legitimate right to a homeland in the United States are “Heritage Americans,” which they typically depict on their social media posts with old Norman Rockwell images of White people, especially White men.

In a post that was pinned to the top of his X profile, Engel explained that his concept of Heritage America "affirms the domination and pre-eminence of European derived peoples, their institutions and their way of life." He also defined it as “an actual body of institutions created by a nexus of specific people, dominated and defined by Anglos and their children.”

Still, Engel said his idea of Heritage America also "includes the blacks of the Old South.”

"I would imagine, in most of those Norman Rockwell pictures, there aren't any depictions of people who look like me,” said Chris Williamson, the African-American pastor of the multiracial Strong Tower Bible Church in Nashville.

“According to them, if you are a descendant of slaves, you get to stay," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"So, they are defining my legacy, my entire legacy really on slavery,” Williamson responded. “I get to stay — even though I was brought here against my will and treated horrible through chattel slavery for nearly 250 years, but that's my heritage."

Even then, Engel wrote that his acceptance of Black Americans as “Heritage Americans” assumes they will not try to "leverage their experience for the purposes of political guilt."

"Really, you want to keep me in that place of inferior status with you,” Williamson responded. “I'm OK as long as I stay in line and accept how you define me. But these days of White men defining Black people, they're not happening anymore."

Pastor Riggs said he would put Isker and Engle into the category of “white Christian nationalists,” although the pair insists their views are about culture, not race.

'The 1960s ruined everything'
Still, Engel complained in one podcast that “all of our heroes were way more racist than we're allowed to be today.”

The two White men have denounced the efforts of Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King – and the Civil Rights movement, in general.

“You cannot have both MLK and Heritage America," Engel wrote in one social media post.

Isker argued — in all caps — “WE SHOULD TURN CIVIL RIGHTS BACK TO THE STATES."

They have celebrated images of Whites-only diners in the 1950s, with Engel proclaiming that "the 1960s ruined everything" and defending racial discrimination.

"Yeah, it's called freedom of association," Engel wrote.

And they mock historical incidents like the kidnapping and lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955.

Yet, they dismiss any criticism as people taking them too seriously.

In one podcast, Engel read one critic’s reference to “Isker’s objections to the Civil Rights Act, his dismissiveness of the Emmett Till murder and the broader racial issues.”

Isker broke into prolonged laughter.

“Yeah, that's funny,” Engel agreed. “That's funny because that whole controversy was like entirely a meme controversy.”

“I know,” Isker answered. “It's like fun, man. Like, yeah, anyway.”

“You get in trouble for having fun,” Engel continued.

Chris Williamson said the two podcasters “have done nothing but disguise white supremacy in the guise of Christian nationalism.”

“So, call it what it is. It's white supremacy — nothing Christian about it," the Nashville pastor added.

For Black History Month earlier this year, Engel responded with his own celebration of what he called "Heritage History Month," holding up white supremacist Sam Francis as someone "who either shaped or defended our European and American heritage."

Among his writings, Francis suggested that "if whites wanted to do so, they could dictate a solution to the racial problem tomorrow," partly by "imposing fertility controls on non-whites." He called for "an uncompromising assertion of white will" in the country.

"It's repulsive that people would think of me and people who look like me in such degrading ways,” Pastor Williamson responded.

"And yet they claim to be Christian, Christian nationalists," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"Key word is ‘claim.’" Williamson answered.

'America for Americans'
Engel's distaste for people who don't look like him even extends to Vivek Ramaswamy. The former GOP presidential candidate's Hindu parents immigrated to the U.S. from India.

In one podcast, Engel expressed support for Ramaswamy’s ideas but declared that he was still “hesitant” about him, given his Indian heritage.

“I wish we had someone – a Heritage American – that was as passionate about, you know, our people," he added.

In a social media post, Engel also suggested Ramaswamy might be a “plant” who would “finish the conquest of America by the non-Western world.”

“Peoples like Indians, or South East (sic) Asians or Ecuadorians or immigrated Africans are the least capable of fitting in and should be sent home immediately,” Engel wrote in the post pinned to his X profile.

Similarly, Isker has posted, "Foreigners out, foreigners out, America for Americans, foreigners out."

He also appeared to endorse the idea that any foreign-born person granted citizenship since 1965 should be "subject to review," including whether they have worked "for Left causes."

"Deported for anti-Heritage American activities," Isker added.

Riggs said such talk appears to be motivated by what has been called the “browning of America.”

“Part of this is coming out of fear because we are moving closer and closer to that day where the White European Christian is the minority or the new minority when you add up all the other minorities,” the Franklin pastor added.

“So, they are losing power, and they are trying to stop that, as well."

Isker and Engel's rhetoric – “They hate White Christian men, period, end of story” – is sometimes reminiscent of the neo-Nazis who marched through Nashville earlier this year chanting, “They hate White men, deport every Mexican.”

And their controversial views are not limited to immigrants.

'I hate democracy'
“People who call me racist are innately incapable of comprehending the extent to which I detest the specific impact of college-educated White women on the culture of the world around me,” Engel said in a social media post.

He also celebrated the fact that he had never had a female boss.

“They’re obnoxious and emotional,” Engel wrote, saying he knows “how women are, especially working ones.” Men, he argued, “need to propagandize your wife, training her to like the things you do.”

Isker wrote: “You can have either women’s liberation or civilization, not both” and “no one can give me an argument why universal suffrage is good.”

Engel agreed, saying: “I think it’s politically best to have conservatives in power. And blacks and women vote liberal more often than White men.”

They reject any notion of Jewishness in modern society. Isker claimed in one post that “Jew and Gentile as categories of people has ceased to exist. There are now only Christians and unbelievers.” He followed up, “Jesus was the final, true Jew.”

And they are offended by the idea of mosques blasting out the Muslim call to prayer.

"That stuff cannot be happening in your country, right? — they have to go back," Isker said in a podcast.

Both have said that they “hate democracy.” Engel said democracy had "destroyed my way of life and my heritage and my freedoms."

On social media, Engel has expressed support for a “Protestant Franco or Appalachian Pinochet,” and he applauded Texas legislation “to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to ever win an election in the state.”

On LGBTQ issues, Engel has stated: “Gay people need to work on not being gay and then we can employ them. Pretty simple.”

And he has advocated “making the journalists concerned,” claimed that journalists are “barely human” and argued for a new Trail of Tears for “relocating the journalists.”

“My job is to normalize dissident right-wing talking points to the normies,” Engel wrote in a post on X. “This is the function of the vanguard; this is the strategy of instilling a counter-revolutionary ethos in Middle America.

"We will tear off Liberal scales from their eyes and radicalize Main Street.”

Engel also posted, "Many of us actually support the breakup and crushing of the United States regime, and we are willing to use political means to do it."

And Isker wrote, "The institutions matter. The mainline churches matter. One day we will retake them. By force if necessary."

Gaining influence in Tennessee
For the podcasters, the Jackson County project is not just about moving to a place where the people look and think like them. They also imagine creating a political force that has an impact on communities like Gainesboro, eventually extending their reach statewide."

“If you have towns that we're going to be building — where there are a lot of people that are very politically motivated and very well organized and are out-punching, you know, their weight class in terms of influence — you can have as much influence as one of the big cities in Tennessee,” Isker said.

Engel has already had "lunch with fellow patriots in Nashville" about ways to counter what he calls "the Great Replacement," and he promised a "multi-year project to put immense pressure on the Tennessee GOP and the governor on immigration issues specifically."

And on election night, the pair hosted a nearly nine-hour podcast from Gainesboro, bringing in some of the biggest names from the Christian nationalist community, including Dusty Deevers, Charles Haywood, Stephen Wolfe and William Wolfe.

As a potentially decisive Donald Trump victory became clear, William Wolfe celebrated the prospect for the authoritarian “Red Caesar” that some Christian nationalists hope will arise.

“If he does that then, you know, Red Caesar, mandate from heaven, rock and roll, let's go," said Wolfe, who served in senior roles in the first Trump administration.

During that podcast, developer Josh Abbotoy also made live appearances from an election watch party that he said his group hosted for the Jackson County Republican Party.

Now, Isker and Engel’s critics worry about where such efforts might lead the country.

"I don't want to be a doom and gloom type of person – my hope is still in Christ,” Riggs said. “But what I see on a practical level scares me if this kind of thing keeps growing and takes root in our country."

Williamson agreed.

"When I hear people talk about Jesus and their Jesus does not invite people to the table of grace, when their Jesus excludes people, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus. That’s something else,” he added.

“I don't recognize that, and I don't want that kind of Jesus leading our nation."

Reached for comment through X, Isker and Engel both issued written statements, lashing out at NewsChannel 5 for even asking about their controversial beliefs. They ignored questions about the similarities between their views and the views of neo-Nazis and pointed to the November election as evidence that such concerns are meaningless.

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as ‘Nazi’ and ‘white supremacist’ has been thoroughly rejected by the American people,” Isker said in a direct message.

Engel said his views “stem from American history” and that “it is love for, and duty to, America that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online.”

Andrew Isker's statement:

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as “Nazi” and “white supremacist” has been thoroughly rejected by the American people. Because of histrionics like this, fewer and fewer people trust anything you say. A genuine journalist distinguishing himself from a hack Antifa activist would be concerned with the hundreds of thousands of patriotic, conservative Americans, like myself and CJay, who have left their blue states for refuge in Tennessee. That would be a story in the public interest, not my milquetoast social media posts.”

C.Jay Engel's statement:

“It is staggering that while the Democrats spent enormous sums of money and media resources hysterically calling Trump and his 70+ million voters Nazis – only to be handed the most devastating defeat in decades – that the media still refuses to reflect on the implications of their narrative failures. It was the media’s outlandish behavior, just as much as Harris herself, that was soundly defeated last week. The framing of your request for comments bears this out, and my response is that all of my views stem from American history – from Coolidge, Hoover, and Eisenhower’s immigration initiatives to Samuel Huntington’s moderate definition of the American ethos to Richard Nixon’s deep distrust of the Western journalist class. It is love for, and duty to, America and its people that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online – whether said in seriousness or obvious internet jest.”

 

Yeah Jackson County, Tennessee has a pretty rough history in general, going back at least to the 1800s and further iirc. When I was about 13 in the mid-70s, I lived in Cookeville, in Putnam County, which borders Jackson County. Where I lived we were maybe 5-10 miles from Jackson County and about 20 miles or so miles from Gainesboro, which is the biggest town in Jackson County with less than 1000 people. Putnam County is rolling hills, now along I-40. Jackson County is rough, beautiful foothill country, which probably explains why so few people live there. I can remember my Dad, Papa, my uncles, etc shooting the shit about all kinds of different trouble they got up to back in the day. There was one recurring theme that stood out to us soon-to-be driver's licensed boys. "Don't fuck around in Jackson County". The olds told us those people are 'mean as shit', 'rather cut you than look at you', 'mean enough to keep out the black folks, and a whole lot more'. 'Don't think they'll give a damn about you just because you're white', they told us.

The gist was that the area is overrun with criminals of all sorts - moonshiners, their runners, squatters, people just hiding from the law, etc, etc. Law is crooked. Everyone's on the take. Can't trust any of 'em, so if you go in there, you're on your own. They said there's just no point going up there because generally the best outcome would be if you get back home without getting robbed and/or cut and/or shot, white or otherwise. Say one wrong word or look at someone or their girl the wrong way, and you're in for some seriously bad shit, so don't bother. Basically a whole county full of violent, lawless freaks, kinda like the bar in Mos Eisley, the caravan park in Snatch, or the break room in the Trump White House. Sounds like nothing much has changed. Out in those hills, time moves a lot slower. For an idea of the kinda folk I'm referring to, check out the movie "Lawless", about the Bondurant family in the 20s in Viginia.

Edited November 19 by wood

[wood 11620]

53 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

No way, too high.  

Yep. I think many people would be surprised.

[DDD Dad 14376]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah Jackson County has a pretty rough history in general, going back at least to the 1800s and further iirc. When I was about 13 I lived in Cookeville, Tennessee, in Putnam County, which borders Jackson County. Where I lived we were maybe 5-10 miles from Jackson County and 20-25 miles from Gainesboro, which is the biggest town in Jackson County, with less than 1000 people. Putnam County is rolling hills, now along I-40. Jackson County is rough, beautiful foothill country, which probably explains why so few people live there. I can remember my Dad, Papa, my uncles, etc shooting the shit about all kinds of different trouble they got up to back in the day. There was one recurring them that stood out to us soon-to-be driver's licensed boys. "Don't fuck around in Jackson County". The olds told us those people are 'mean as shit', 'rather cut you than look at you', 'mean enough to keep out the black folks, and a whole lot more'. 'Don't think they'll give a damn about you just because you're white', they told us.

The gist was that the area is overrun with criminals of all sorts - moonshiners, their runners, squatters, people just hiding from the law, etc, etc. Law is crooked. Everyone's on the take. Can't trust any of 'em, so if you go in there, you're on your own. They said there's just no point going up there because generally the best outcome would be if you get back home without getting robbed and/or cut and/or shot, white or otherwise. Say one wrong word or look at someone or their girl the wrong way, and you're in for some seriously bad shit, so don't bother. Basically a whole county full of violent, lawless freaks, kinda like the bar in Mos Eisley or the break room in the Trump White House. Sounds like nothing much has changed. Out in those hills, time moves a lot slower.

Sounds like they need Raylan Givens.

[wood 11620]

41 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

So, what's next? A draft?

[tx 3 putt 77965]

11 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah Jackson County has a pretty rough history in general, going back at least to the 1800s and further iirc. When I was about 13 I lived in Cookeville, Tennessee, in Putnam County, which borders Jackson County. Where I lived we were maybe 5-10 miles from Jackson County and 20-25 miles from Gainesboro, which is the biggest town in Jackson County, with less than 1000 people. Putnam County is rolling hills, now along I-40. Jackson County is rough, beautiful foothill country, which probably explains why so few people live there. I can remember my Dad, Papa, my uncles, etc shooting the shit about all kinds of different trouble they got up to back in the day. There was one recurring them that stood out to us soon-to-be driver's licensed boys. "Don't fuck around in Jackson County". The olds told us those people are 'mean as shit', 'rather cut you than look at you', 'mean enough to keep out the black folks, and a whole lot more'. 'Don't think they'll give a damn about you just because you're white', they told us.

The gist was that the area is overrun with criminals of all sorts - moonshiners, their runners, squatters, people just hiding from the law, etc, etc. Law is crooked. Everyone's on the take. Can't trust any of 'em, so if you go in there, you're on your own. They said there's just no point going up there because generally the best outcome would be if you get back home without getting robbed and/or cut and/or shot, white or otherwise. Say one wrong word or look at someone or their girl the wrong way, and you're in for some seriously bad shit, so don't bother. Basically a whole county full of violent, lawless freaks, kinda like the bar in Mos Eisley or the break room in the Trump White House. Sounds like nothing much has changed. Out in those hills, time moves a lot slower. For an idea of the kinda folk I'm referring to, check out the movie "Lawless", about the Bondurant family.

 

it’ll be the new meth capitol of the us 

[Pancho 45527]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/18/more-americans-get-news-from-social-media-influencers.html

 

I could have told you this without CNBC.

[tx 3 putt 77965]

18 minutes ago, wood said:

So, what's next? A draft?

 

stephen miller will issue orders to shoot anyone trying to enter this country 

[UpperWestside 6224]

21 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yeah, but how many died from McDonalds?

The Great McDonald’s plague of 2025 will start in the White House. The National Champion Longhorns will be the unwitting first victims of the tainted double quarter pounders. Pity the toilets on the plane ride back to Austin.

[GreenspointTexas 9880]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

What was the price tag on this? Thought i read like 88 billion a year….

[David Dennison 19133]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/18/more-americans-get-news-from-social-media-influencers.html

Wow. I thought that number would be higher.

[Da Fino 2798]

36 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. I think many people would be surprised.

It's probably pretty close if we are talking about direct combat arms soldiers. 

[C-Man 27388]

3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/confronting-hate/aiming-to-radicalize-main-street-christian-nationalists-set-sights-on-tiny-jackson-county-tennessee

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

"If you strip it all down, they're saying the same thing – they are just saying it in a way that may be more acceptable to people,” said Kevin Riggs, pastor of Franklin Community Church. “At the end of the day, it's the same tired ideology of white supremacy."

Riggs, who has been sounding the alarm for years about the rise of Christian nationalism in Middle Tennessee, described Christian nationalism is "a Christianized-type of Sharia law.”

“It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist. It doesn't matter what, you are going to be forced to live by this narrow interpretation of Christian principles," he said.

Another Moscow, Idaho?
In its approach, the Jackson County project appears similar to the much-publicized efforts by Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson to turn Moscow, Idaho, into a “church town.” Isker graduated from a ministerial training program created by Wilson’s Christ Church.

The real estate component of the project is led by two related companies, New Founding and RidgeRunner, that promise buyers the potential to “be part of building a community with people who share your values.” The companies began with an initial project in nearby Burkesville, Kentucky, before announcing the Jackson County phase earlier this month.

New Founding CEO Nate Fischer has declared the principles of the U.S. Constitution are “long gone” and that Christian nationalism “represents a positive Christian vision for government.” Fischer’s partner, Josh Abbotoy, has claimed to have mixed feelings on the issue, although he tweeted that “America is going to need a Protestant Franco.”

Francisco Franco was a Catholic dictator who ruled over Spain from 1939 to 1975 and made Catholicism the official religion of the country.

Reached by text for his comment, Abbotoy responded: "lol you're such a hack."

According to property records, Abbotoy bought up 500 acres in the rolling hills on the Macon-Jackson County line, while a related corporation purchased an additional 100 acres near downtown Gainesboro. That corporation has also bought a small office building on East Hull Avenue in Gainesboro.

Isker and Engel, who are setting up a podcast studio in that office building, appear to have been recruited as ambassadors for the project. The pair claim their “Contra Mundum” podcast is the "Number One Christian Nationalist Podcast in the World.”

America for 'Heritage Americans'
As Isker and Engel see it, the only people who have a legitimate right to a homeland in the United States are “Heritage Americans,” which they typically depict on their social media posts with old Norman Rockwell images of White people, especially White men.

In a post that was pinned to the top of his X profile, Engel explained that his concept of Heritage America "affirms the domination and pre-eminence of European derived peoples, their institutions and their way of life." He also defined it as “an actual body of institutions created by a nexus of specific people, dominated and defined by Anglos and their children.”

Still, Engel said his idea of Heritage America also "includes the blacks of the Old South.”

"I would imagine, in most of those Norman Rockwell pictures, there aren't any depictions of people who look like me,” said Chris Williamson, the African-American pastor of the multiracial Strong Tower Bible Church in Nashville.

“According to them, if you are a descendant of slaves, you get to stay," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"So, they are defining my legacy, my entire legacy really on slavery,” Williamson responded. “I get to stay — even though I was brought here against my will and treated horrible through chattel slavery for nearly 250 years, but that's my heritage."

Even then, Engel wrote that his acceptance of Black Americans as “Heritage Americans” assumes they will not try to "leverage their experience for the purposes of political guilt."

"Really, you want to keep me in that place of inferior status with you,” Williamson responded. “I'm OK as long as I stay in line and accept how you define me. But these days of White men defining Black people, they're not happening anymore."

Pastor Riggs said he would put Isker and Engle into the category of “white Christian nationalists,” although the pair insists their views are about culture, not race.

'The 1960s ruined everything'
Still, Engel complained in one podcast that “all of our heroes were way more racist than we're allowed to be today.”

The two White men have denounced the efforts of Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King – and the Civil Rights movement, in general.

“You cannot have both MLK and Heritage America," Engel wrote in one social media post.

Isker argued — in all caps — “WE SHOULD TURN CIVIL RIGHTS BACK TO THE STATES."

They have celebrated images of Whites-only diners in the 1950s, with Engel proclaiming that "the 1960s ruined everything" and defending racial discrimination.

"Yeah, it's called freedom of association," Engel wrote.

And they mock historical incidents like the kidnapping and lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955.

Yet, they dismiss any criticism as people taking them too seriously.

In one podcast, Engel read one critic’s reference to “Isker’s objections to the Civil Rights Act, his dismissiveness of the Emmett Till murder and the broader racial issues.”

Isker broke into prolonged laughter.

“Yeah, that's funny,” Engel agreed. “That's funny because that whole controversy was like entirely a meme controversy.”

“I know,” Isker answered. “It's like fun, man. Like, yeah, anyway.”

“You get in trouble for having fun,” Engel continued.

Chris Williamson said the two podcasters “have done nothing but disguise white supremacy in the guise of Christian nationalism.”

“So, call it what it is. It's white supremacy — nothing Christian about it," the Nashville pastor added.

For Black History Month earlier this year, Engel responded with his own celebration of what he called "Heritage History Month," holding up white supremacist Sam Francis as someone "who either shaped or defended our European and American heritage."

Among his writings, Francis suggested that "if whites wanted to do so, they could dictate a solution to the racial problem tomorrow," partly by "imposing fertility controls on non-whites." He called for "an uncompromising assertion of white will" in the country.

"It's repulsive that people would think of me and people who look like me in such degrading ways,” Pastor Williamson responded.

"And yet they claim to be Christian, Christian nationalists," NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted.

"Key word is ‘claim.’" Williamson answered.

'America for Americans'
Engel's distaste for people who don't look like him even extends to Vivek Ramaswamy. The former GOP presidential candidate's Hindu parents immigrated to the U.S. from India.

In one podcast, Engel expressed support for Ramaswamy’s ideas but declared that he was still “hesitant” about him, given his Indian heritage.

“I wish we had someone – a Heritage American – that was as passionate about, you know, our people," he added.

In a social media post, Engel also suggested Ramaswamy might be a “plant” who would “finish the conquest of America by the non-Western world.”

“Peoples like Indians, or South East (sic) Asians or Ecuadorians or immigrated Africans are the least capable of fitting in and should be sent home immediately,” Engel wrote in the post pinned to his X profile.

Similarly, Isker has posted, "Foreigners out, foreigners out, America for Americans, foreigners out."

He also appeared to endorse the idea that any foreign-born person granted citizenship since 1965 should be "subject to review," including whether they have worked "for Left causes."

"Deported for anti-Heritage American activities," Isker added.

Riggs said such talk appears to be motivated by what has been called the “browning of America.”

“Part of this is coming out of fear because we are moving closer and closer to that day where the White European Christian is the minority or the new minority when you add up all the other minorities,” the Franklin pastor added.

“So, they are losing power, and they are trying to stop that, as well."

Isker and Engel's rhetoric – “They hate White Christian men, period, end of story” – is sometimes reminiscent of the neo-Nazis who marched through Nashville earlier this year chanting, “They hate White men, deport every Mexican.”

And their controversial views are not limited to immigrants.

'I hate democracy'
“People who call me racist are innately incapable of comprehending the extent to which I detest the specific impact of college-educated White women on the culture of the world around me,” Engel said in a social media post.

He also celebrated the fact that he had never had a female boss.

“They’re obnoxious and emotional,” Engel wrote, saying he knows “how women are, especially working ones.” Men, he argued, “need to propagandize your wife, training her to like the things you do.”

Isker wrote: “You can have either women’s liberation or civilization, not both” and “no one can give me an argument why universal suffrage is good.”

Engel agreed, saying: “I think it’s politically best to have conservatives in power. And blacks and women vote liberal more often than White men.”

They reject any notion of Jewishness in modern society. Isker claimed in one post that “Jew and Gentile as categories of people has ceased to exist. There are now only Christians and unbelievers.” He followed up, “Jesus was the final, true Jew.”

And they are offended by the idea of mosques blasting out the Muslim call to prayer.

"That stuff cannot be happening in your country, right? — they have to go back," Isker said in a podcast.

Both have said that they “hate democracy.” Engel said democracy had "destroyed my way of life and my heritage and my freedoms."

On social media, Engel has expressed support for a “Protestant Franco or Appalachian Pinochet,” and he applauded Texas legislation “to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to ever win an election in the state.”

On LGBTQ issues, Engel has stated: “Gay people need to work on not being gay and then we can employ them. Pretty simple.”

And he has advocated “making the journalists concerned,” claimed that journalists are “barely human” and argued for a new Trail of Tears for “relocating the journalists.”

“My job is to normalize dissident right-wing talking points to the normies,” Engel wrote in a post on X. “This is the function of the vanguard; this is the strategy of instilling a counter-revolutionary ethos in Middle America.

"We will tear off Liberal scales from their eyes and radicalize Main Street.”

Engel also posted, "Many of us actually support the breakup and crushing of the United States regime, and we are willing to use political means to do it."

And Isker wrote, "The institutions matter. The mainline churches matter. One day we will retake them. By force if necessary."

Gaining influence in Tennessee
For the podcasters, the Jackson County project is not just about moving to a place where the people look and think like them. They also imagine creating a political force that has an impact on communities like Gainesboro, eventually extending their reach statewide."

“If you have towns that we're going to be building — where there are a lot of people that are very politically motivated and very well organized and are out-punching, you know, their weight class in terms of influence — you can have as much influence as one of the big cities in Tennessee,” Isker said.

Engel has already had "lunch with fellow patriots in Nashville" about ways to counter what he calls "the Great Replacement," and he promised a "multi-year project to put immense pressure on the Tennessee GOP and the governor on immigration issues specifically."

And on election night, the pair hosted a nearly nine-hour podcast from Gainesboro, bringing in some of the biggest names from the Christian nationalist community, including Dusty Deevers, Charles Haywood, Stephen Wolfe and William Wolfe.

As a potentially decisive Donald Trump victory became clear, William Wolfe celebrated the prospect for the authoritarian “Red Caesar” that some Christian nationalists hope will arise.

“If he does that then, you know, Red Caesar, mandate from heaven, rock and roll, let's go," said Wolfe, who served in senior roles in the first Trump administration.

During that podcast, developer Josh Abbotoy also made live appearances from an election watch party that he said his group hosted for the Jackson County Republican Party.

Now, Isker and Engel’s critics worry about where such efforts might lead the country.

"I don't want to be a doom and gloom type of person – my hope is still in Christ,” Riggs said. “But what I see on a practical level scares me if this kind of thing keeps growing and takes root in our country."

Williamson agreed.

"When I hear people talk about Jesus and their Jesus does not invite people to the table of grace, when their Jesus excludes people, they are not preaching the gospel of Jesus. That’s something else,” he added.

“I don't recognize that, and I don't want that kind of Jesus leading our nation."

Reached for comment through X, Isker and Engel both issued written statements, lashing out at NewsChannel 5 for even asking about their controversial beliefs. They ignored questions about the similarities between their views and the views of neo-Nazis and pointed to the November election as evidence that such concerns are meaningless.

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as ‘Nazi’ and ‘white supremacist’ has been thoroughly rejected by the American people,” Isker said in a direct message.

Engel said his views “stem from American history” and that “it is love for, and duty to, America that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online.”

Andrew Isker's statement:

“As the events of the past week have shown, the framing by corporate media of mainstream conservative thought as “Nazi” and “white supremacist” has been thoroughly rejected by the American people. Because of histrionics like this, fewer and fewer people trust anything you say. A genuine journalist distinguishing himself from a hack Antifa activist would be concerned with the hundreds of thousands of patriotic, conservative Americans, like myself and CJay, who have left their blue states for refuge in Tennessee. That would be a story in the public interest, not my milquetoast social media posts.”

C.Jay Engel's statement:

“It is staggering that while the Democrats spent enormous sums of money and media resources hysterically calling Trump and his 70+ million voters Nazis – only to be handed the most devastating defeat in decades – that the media still refuses to reflect on the implications of their narrative failures. It was the media’s outlandish behavior, just as much as Harris herself, that was soundly defeated last week. The framing of your request for comments bears this out, and my response is that all of my views stem from American history – from Coolidge, Hoover, and Eisenhower’s immigration initiatives to Samuel Huntington’s moderate definition of the American ethos to Richard Nixon’s deep distrust of the Western journalist class. It is love for, and duty to, America and its people that animates the various genres of my cultural and political observations online – whether said in seriousness or obvious internet jest.”

 

Poster's handle is @Francisco 2.0. Curious. Very curious, indeed. 

[tx 3 putt 77965]

 

[Goofyboy 3326]

Who owns NBC? Their license isn’t going anywhere.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

33 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Liar.

 

[wood 11620]

45 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

What was the price tag on this? Thought i read like 88 billion a year….

And how much will it compromise national defense?

[Dnaguy 12365]

33 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

These people are bullies. 

They make threats like this.

Then they come down on people weaker like trans folks or immigrants.

The only way you beat a bully is to have folks fight back. It’s as simple as that.

[956 Worldwide 34970]

1 hour ago, wood said:

Yep. I think many people would be surprised.

Haven’t seen figures for 2024 but wasn’t even close in 2020.  He was more unpopular than with the general population.  I would say support among officers likely even lower.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/
 

[Goredho 17516]

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Haven’t seen figures for 2024 but wasn’t even close in 2020.  He was more unpopular than with the general population.  I would say support among officers likely even lower.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/
 

Is that like an Iowa poll or an accurate poll?

[956 Worldwide 34970]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Is that like an Iowa poll or an accurate poll?

Well, the military doesn’t release how active duty votes. I’d say if you spend much time around people in uniform it’s accurate that there’s a level of conservatism but also more thoughtfulness and awareness of the importance of the job and institutions. And a corresponding reluctance to give the keys to MAGA.  

[UpperWestside 6224]

I want to say that I am not a real big fan of the proposed tax cuts on tips. While that would add around 900-1100 to my bank account 11 months out of the year (I take one month and head off for a vacation as far away from Americans as I can get), it is a really unsound tax policy to undertake. This money is not going to go to savings for most of the people receiving this tax break. It is a farce and hopefully someone in Congress realizes that the math on this is going to hurt more Americans than it will help. I suppose the hurt part is part and parcel with Trump’s America though. 

[InkaUtexas 26387]

21 minutes ago, wood said:

And how much will it compromise national defense?

Forget the dollar amount. We can just print or borrow more. But what it will do is this. It will burn out the military.

Read the articles about the TDM on the border and troop morale. Look at how they recruit. It is not our best units heading down there.

Imagine coming back from a real deployment. You know, one that you signed up to do. And then you are told you are heading down the the Arizona border to do border control. Morale will take a hit. Then add to that the burn on equipment.

@956 Worldwide is right about the mindset of the military. I know and work with quite a few. They do not like this crap. And one reason is selfish. Don't fuck with my domain.

[SydneyCarton 48387]

1 minute ago, UpperWestside said:

I want to say that I am not a real big fan of the proposed tax cuts on tips. While that would add around 900-1100 to my bank account 11 months out of the year (I take one month and head off for a vacation as far away from Americans as I can get), it is a really unsound tax policy to undertake. This money is not going to go to savings for most of the people receiving this tax break. It is a farce and hopefully someone in Congress realizes that the math on this is going to hurt more Americans than it will help. I suppose the hurt part is part and parcel with Trump’s America though. 

Are you saying that most professional waitors won't start saving money, or are you saying the vast bulk of people who will take advantage of this are not actual waitors, just a bunch of rich fucks who are about to write in "tips" for their bribes?

 

[wood 11620]

3 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Forget the dollar amount. We can just print or borrow more. But what it will do is this. It will burn out the military.

Read the articles about the TDM on the border and troop morale. Look at how they recruit. It is not our best units heading down there.

Imagine coming back from a real deployment. You know, one that you signed up to do. And then you are told you are heading down the the Arizona border to do border control. Morale will take a hit. Then add to that the burn on equipment.

@956 Worldwide is right about the mindset of the military. I know and work with quite a few. They do not like this crap. And one reason is selfish. Don't fuck with my domain.

100%, and to be clear I'm in agreement with @956 Worldwide . Not sure if that was clear before. I'm a Navy brat who's been around the military most of my life, and I think most people would be shocked at the level of disdain with which people like Trump and others are held in the military. 

Re: recruiting, that's one of the first things I thought of. Gonna make it hard for recruiters to recruit if the sales pitch is "Hopefully you won't be one of those sent to the border, sent to man the detention camps, or sent to round up immigrants".

Edited November 19 by wood

[UpperWestside 6224]

9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Well, the military doesn’t release how active duty votes. I’d say if you spend much time around people in uniform it’s accurate that there’s a level of conservatism but also more thoughtfulness and awareness of the importance of the job and institutions. And a corresponding reluctance to give the keys to MAGA.  

This is something that should be said far more often. Our military can be trusted. I would not hesitate to say that some officers will not stand down even when Trump attempts to remove them. It’s going to be quite the battle of wills. I’m still siding with our military and their constitutional oath over the maga cult.

[UpperWestside 6224]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Are you saying that most professional waitors won't start saving money, or are you saying the vast bulk of people who will take advantage of this are not actual waitors, just a bunch of rich fucks who are about to write in "tips" for their bribes?

 

Why not both? 
 

But yes in general very few servers are going to save this money. It’s a waste that should be spent on government programs that can actually help people. Take that proposed cut and instead give the money to jobs programs for veterans to help them integrate back into society with more job skills that can help them live better lives. Handing out money on the form of tax cuts on tips is just high comedy.

[royiv 9417]

7 minutes ago, wood said:

Re: recruiting, that's one of the first things I thought of. Gonna make it hard for recruiters to recruit if the sales pitch is "Hopefully you won't be one of those sent to the border or sent to round up immigrants".

Or, in the case of non-citizen recruits, hopefully they don’t take your green card away and you have to deport yourself and your family.

[956 Worldwide 34970]

8 minutes ago, wood said:

100%, and to be clear I'm in agreement with @956 Worldwide . Not sure if that was clear before. I'm a Navy brat who's been around the military most of my life, and I think most people would be shocked at the level of disdain with which people like Trump and others are held in the military. 

Re: recruiting, that's one of the first things I thought of. Gonna make it hard for recruiters to recruit if the sales pitch is "Hopefully you won't be one of those sent to the border or sent to round up immigrants".

I agree with you, which is why my take on his DoD plans is NOT to unleash troops against Americans. They will work to push out the competent, enshitten things, and generally defang it over time.  Things they can’t control and weaponize they will just make useless. 

[956 Worldwide 34970]

19 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Forget the dollar amount. We can just print or borrow more. But what it will do is this. It will burn out the military.

Read the articles about the TDM on the border and troop morale. Look at how they recruit. It is not our best units heading down there.

Imagine coming back from a real deployment. You know, one that you signed up to do. And then you are told you are heading down the the Arizona border to do border control. Morale will take a hit. Then add to that the burn on equipment.

@956 Worldwide is right about the mindset of the military. I know and work with quite a few. They do not like this crap. And one reason is selfish. Don't fuck with my domain.

Yep, and we’ve actually done this before.  Back in the 1990s a kid tending his goats got shot by a Marine doing anti-drug surveillance.  He was out with a rifle along the river to keep dogs and coyotes away and got blasted by a Marine he never knew was there. 
 

And that’s not to blast the Marines. They didn’t belong there.  Combat units should not be deployed on American soil if there’s not combat. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/esequiel-hernandez-death-border-mexico.html