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Trump’s America

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bolverk

bolverk 30362

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Denmark has never really held Greenland in a meaningful way and never wanted to. A little history: Vikings maintained a small settlement in Southern Greenland going back to the 12th century or so, and accepted Norwegian overlordship in the 13th. Norway and Denmark were combined in personal union under the Danish Oldenburg dynasty over the 16th-17th century. When they were forcibly split in 1814 by the British after the Napoleonic Wars,  Denmark wound up with the settlement. 
After the civil war United States sent explorers to the rest of Greenland and claimed it, which prompted the Danish to claim it too. We then recognized the Danish claim as part of the purchase of the British West Indies in 1917, and successfully prevented the British from buying it for Canada or getting a right of first refusal to prevent us from getting it. So in 1921 Denmark was stuck and actually had to declare sovereignty over the whole island. Sort of.

fast forward to WWI- Denmark is occupied by the Germans, who then make moved in preparation to invade and occupy Greenland, so we put the coast guard in place and begin to set up bases, and there we have been ever since. 

Greenland is essential to US strategic defense. Holding it is consistent with the Monroe doctrine, and because the current Danish claim is a post 1823 European colony we tolerate it as an exception. 

I’m glossing over a lot and some details may be wrong, but that’s the gist.

One big detail you're glossing over is what the people of Greenland (however few there are) want.

After years of expressing their intent to become independent, is there now a sudden groundswell of internal support for becoming an American colony? Because, in my mind, self-determination is pretty much what we (Americans) are supposed to be all about.

Look, I understand the island's strategic importance. I also fully recognize that it's difficult for such a tiny population to provide for their own security over such a vast and empty country. I think the security compromise right now between them, the Danes, and the US can be improved but should be maintained.

We (the US) wouldn't simply be buying a bunch of mineral-rich rocks under a sheet of ice or an expansion of territorial waters; we'd also essentially be buying 80-90,000 people without their consent...unless we've decided we're just going to abandon all the democratic principles we pretend we have and start up a game of neo-colonial Risk to better position ourselves for the coming climate catastrophe.

If that's the case, we need to go big and take Antarctica and maybe even half of Siberia, too, while we're at it. Of course, our Canadian cousins need to get used to the idea that we'll need land corridors to connect our pending Arctic empire. They, too, have a lot of unused land, and if they don't like it, tough.

It's Manifest Destiny time in America again.

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bolverk

bolverk 30362

Posted
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18 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Gen. Narcisco Lopez - with support from Southern planters and local newspapers including the Daily Delta - left from New Orleans on a filibustering expedition to free Cuba in 1850.  That site is now the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana.

These plaques sit in front of the courthouse. 

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Things got a little wild at the Lions Club that day. I bet all the Rotarians, Kiwanis, Masons, Shriners, and the boys down at the Elks Lodge were jealous.

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Rex Kramer

Rex Kramer 1538

Posted
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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Which part?

It's "noteworthy" that maybe 10 people on an Internet message board took a few minutes out of watching commercials to comment on one of their university's representatives choosing to make a completely unnecessary political statement that's a massive middle finger to many/most of his classmates and teammates? What's "noteworthy" about it? We're supposed to be locked in watching the Taco Bell nuggets chick for the 20th time this CFB season and it contravenes expectations that we're posting instead?

"I'm just saying..."
"I just think it's interesting that..."
"I'm just surprised that..."

All sentence starters from people who either haven't thought through their own thinking or are unable to contend with it because it's fucking stupid. Say what you actually mean, bud. Say it with your chest.

Do you just stare intently at the screen for 4 hours when the game starts? What's the right way to watch a fucking football game on TV?

I watch football. Drink heavily. Eat. And was coming to Surly at half to post on the Football board. The politics board doesn’t cross my mind. I’ve said what I mean with my full chest bro. You’re not listening. Have a nice day. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26898

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

One big detail you're glossing over is what the people of Greenland (however few there are) want.

After years of expressing their intent to become independent, is there now a sudden groundswell of internal support for becoming an American colony?

Not if it costs them EU citizenship and all the individual benefits of it. But they really don’t want to lose anything anyway.  It’s not so much that they want “independence.” There are only 60k of them and they are basically realists. What they really want is to be what they are today: an autonomous colony that 

1) still gets Danish subsidies and

2) enjoys American military protection/investment but

3) also welcomes Chinese investment 

 

worth mentioning that in any scenario where we bought Greenland the people would likely get like 80%  of it- meaning that if it we bought Greenland for 500B dollars, that would be around $7mm tax free straight into the pocket of every person on the island, along with dual EU/US Citizenship for the current generation.
And they know that, too.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30769

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

One hell of a way pretending they weren't invading to expand slavery in the United States.

There was not a whole hell of a lot of pretending going on.

My favorite story from that expedition was after they had all been captured in Cuba and were on their way to execution, and they were allowed to write farewell letters to their families.

One of them wrote a fabricated personal letter to the US Secretary of State, Daniel Webster, saying stuff like “Well Dan old boy, I will miss my days staying with you and your lovely family and all of our conversations.  This looks like the end for me, but I wanted you to know that I have always valued your personal friendship and guidance.”

The Spanish censors read the letters before they mailed them, and when they saw he was a great close friend of the current American Secretary of State, they commuted his sentence and expelled him from the country. He was one of the very few who survived that expedition.

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GenXer

GenXer 3465

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

worth mentioning that in any scenario where we bought Greenland the people would likely get like 80%  of it- meaning that if it we bought Greenland for 500B dollars, that would be around $7mm tax free straight into the pocket of every person on the island, along with dual EU/US Citizenship for the current generation.
And they know that, too.


Trump’s plan is to offer a sweet deal and stiff ‘em when they come looking for payment. Ask his contractor vendors from back in the day.

Oh, you don’t like getting stiffed? Take it up with SCOTUS. Lawfare.

Only halfway joking.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30769

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Greenland is essential to US strategic defense. Holding it is consistent with the Monroe doctrine, and because the current Danish claim is a post 1823 European colony we tolerate it as an exception. 

The only reason we are not there in force is because the Harkonnen don’t want it because the whales do not have fur. 

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20947

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Not if it costs them EU citizenship and all the individual benefits of it. But they really don’t want to lose anything anyway.  It’s not so much that they want “independence.” There are only 60k of them and they are basically realists. What they really want is to be what they are today: an autonomous colony that 

1) still gets Danish subsidies and

2) enjoys American military protection/investment but

3) also welcomes Chinese investment 

 

worth mentioning that in any scenario where we bought Greenland the people would likely get like 80%  of it- meaning that if it we bought Greenland for 500B dollars, that would be around $7mm tax free straight into the pocket of every person on the island, along with dual EU/US Citizenship for the current generation.
And they know that, too.


It would also cost almost $3100 per U.S. taxpayer. That's the up front cost. Being that we're running deficits, who knows what the ultimate cost, with interest on the borrowed 500 billion dollars, would be? 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106984

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14 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


It would also cost almost $3100 per U.S. taxpayer. That's the up front cost. Being that we're running deficits, who knows what the ultimate cost, with interest on the borrowed 500 billion dollars, would be? 

Wait....you think there's anything above a 0% chance that a Trump administration would actually HONOR its debts?  We'd give the locals a $1,000 "advance" or some shit like that, install our governing apparatus, boost our military presence even more....and then stiff the everloving fuck out of both them AND Denmark, and tell 'em "wadda ya gonna do about it, sue us?"

The #1 rule of ever having a deal with Donald Trump is that you never, ever, ever have an actual deal with Donald Trump.  Get paid in full, up front, or don't make the "deal."

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 11067

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

The #1 rule of ever having a deal with Donald Trump is that you never, ever, ever have an actual deal with Donald Trump.  Get paid in full, up front, or don't make the "deal."

Canada and Mexico are dealing with that right now.

 

 

Hell we all are 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26898

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20 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


It would also cost almost $3100 per U.S. taxpayer. That's the up front cost. Being that we're running deficits, who knows what the ultimate cost, with interest on the borrowed 500 billion dollars, would be? 

Republicans super seriously care about deficits

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GenXer

GenXer 3465

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Posted

I think Trump wants to buy Greenland so he can brag about making the biggest real estate deal ever.

For grins, I looked up the Louisiana purchase: 828k sq miles. Greenland? 836k sq miles.

Also, the biggest island.

Rename it Trumpland. All magas move there.

I’m starting to get on board with this idea.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 53568

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27 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


It would also cost almost $3100 per U.S. taxpayer. That's the up front cost. Being that we're running deficits, who knows what the ultimate cost, with interest on the borrowed 500 billion dollars, would be? 

If it’s for defense purposes, it should come out of the existing defense budget.  

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mdmost

mdmost 44100

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Posted

So all the people who voted for Trump and DOGE because they wanted the government to spend less money are going to love us buying Greenland and possibly the Panama Canal? He's not in office yet and it's already so ridiculously stupid. 

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GenXer

GenXer 3465

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2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

So all the people who voted for Trump and DOGE because they wanted the government to spend less money are going to love us buying Greenland and possibly the Panama Canal? He's not in office yet and it's already so ridiculously stupid. 

There’s likely something going on that’s actually serious. He’d prefer the media be entertained by whatever landed on his wheel of shitfuckcrazy ideas.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13566

Posted
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42 minutes ago, mdmost said:

So all the people who voted for Trump and DOGE because they wanted the government to spend less money are going to love us buying Greenland and possibly the Panama Canal? He's not in office yet and it's already so ridiculously stupid. 

Mexico is going to pay for it, stupid lib

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Underdog

Underdog 29210

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mdmost said:

So all the people who voted for Trump and DOGE because they wanted the government to spend less money are going to love us buying Greenland and possibly the Panama Canal? He's not in office yet and it's already so ridiculously stupid. 

Groupon has great deals right now so why not?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106984

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Posted
26 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Trump thinks Greenland is going to be his Louisiana Purchase.  He'll go down in history as the New Thomas Jefferson.  

 

Fucker won't even go down in /history as the new George Jefferson.  George at least owned a chain of dry cleaners, that's a real business.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5677

Posted
Posted

what else is on the DJT America list:

- Philippines (MacArthur said we would return)
- Taiwan (money $$$)
- Vietnam (because we really did win that war)
 

what else is on Elon political investments list
- Canada
- Germany
- France
- UK

That should cost him much less than Twitter

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26934

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

what else is on the DJT America list:

- Philippines (MacArthur said we would return)
- Taiwan (money $$$)
- Vietnam (because we really did win that war)
 

what else is on Elon political investments list
- Canada
- Germany
- France
- UK

That should cost him much less than Twitter

Dont forget Brazil. Pissed off Elon and Trump can open a casino on Copa.

And Biden said hi to a tree, so now all amazon trees are enemies.

Edited by InkaUtexas
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C-Man

C-Man 27807

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Driving back to Dallas from Austin yesterday, my wife pointed out a Confederate flag flying on a flagpole on the west side of I-35 in Waco. I couldn't tell what kind of business it was in front of though. It was pretty jarring to see that fucking thing flying proudly Waco or not. Man, I hate that fucking place.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18164

Posted
Posted
Driving back to Dallas from Austin yesterday, my wife pointed out a Confederate flag flying on a flagpole on the west side of I-35 in Waco. I couldn't tell what kind of business it was in front of though. It was pretty jarring to see that fucking thing flying proudly Waco or not. Man, I hate that fucking place.

I saw it and I was wondering the same thing. I only saw it in passing and looked more like it was some sort of small monument or park there. Like a little triangle of land. Could be wrong though.
Driving back to Dallas from Austin yesterday, my wife pointed out a Confederate flag flying on a flagpole on the west side of I-35 in Waco. I couldn't tell what kind of business it was in front of though. It was pretty jarring to see that fucking thing flying proudly Waco or not. Man, I hate that fucking place.

I saw it and I was wondering the same thing. I only saw it in passing and looked more like it was some sort of small monument or park there. Like a little triangle of land. Could be wrong though.
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TexArcher

TexArcher 39074

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Posted
1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Driving back to Dallas from Austin yesterday, my wife pointed out a Confederate flag flying on a flagpole on the west side of I-35 in Waco. I couldn't tell what kind of business it was in front of though. It was pretty jarring to see that fucking thing flying proudly Waco or not. Man, I hate that fucking place.

There was a Confederate flag painted on a building (like a firework stand, maybe?) on the side of 290 between Houston and Austin back in the 90's.  Not sure what happened to it, but glad it's long gone.

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wood

wood 11766

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Posted
7 hours ago, GenXer said:


Trump’s plan is to offer a sweet deal and stiff ‘em when they come looking for payment. Ask his contractor vendors from back in the day.

Oh, you don’t like getting stiffed? Take it up with SCOTUS. Lawfare.

Only halfway joking.

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait....you think there's anything above a 0% chance that a Trump administration would actually HONOR its debts?  We'd give the locals a $1,000 "advance" or some shit like that, install our governing apparatus, boost our military presence even more....and then stiff the everloving fuck out of both them AND Denmark, and tell 'em "wadda ya gonna do about it, sue us?"

The #1 rule of ever having a deal with Donald Trump is that you never, ever, ever have an actual deal with Donald Trump.  Get paid in full, up front, or don't make the "deal."

Oh, cool. Same as the Bobby Epstein rules. Got it!

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wood

wood 11766

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Posted
2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Driving back to Dallas from Austin yesterday, my wife pointed out a Confederate flag flying on a flagpole on the west side of I-35 in Waco. I couldn't tell what kind of business it was in front of though. It was pretty jarring to see that fucking thing flying proudly Waco or not. Man, I hate that fucking place.

Seriously. What a fucking shithole. I hate Waco worse than Lubbock and Brownsville.

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SKJ

SKJ 1324

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Posted
11 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Denmark has never really held Greenland in a meaningful way and never wanted to. A little history: Vikings maintained a small settlement in Southern Greenland going back to the 12th century or so, and accepted Norwegian overlordship in the 13th. Norway and Denmark were combined in personal union under the Danish Oldenburg dynasty over the 16th-17th century. When they were forcibly split in 1814 by the British after the Napoleonic Wars,  Denmark wound up with the settlement. 
After the civil war United States sent explorers to the rest of Greenland and claimed it, which prompted the Danish to claim it too. We then recognized the Danish claim as part of the purchase of the British West Indies in 1917, and successfully prevented the British from buying it for Canada or getting a right of first refusal to prevent us from getting it. So in 1921 Denmark was stuck and actually had to declare sovereignty over the whole island. Sort of.

fast forward to WWI- Denmark is occupied by the Germans, who then make moved in preparation to invade and occupy Greenland, so we put the coast guard in place and begin to set up bases, and there we have been ever since. 

Greenland is essential to US strategic defense. Holding it is consistent with the Monroe doctrine, and because the current Danish claim is a post 1823 European colony we tolerate it as an exception. 

I’m glossing over a lot and some details may be wrong, but that’s the gist.

Interestingly enough, though,  Denmark granted Greenland home rule.  That would make it,  internationally,  a sovereign,  if Denmark decided to free it.  The US would have to either accept it as a territory of they wished to be,  or would have to invade it otherwise,  right?

I think that's kind of Ireland and Northern Ireland in a nutshell... I am probably wrong 

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