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Posted
1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is the constitutional question, which  is murky.

The 12th says: no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

The 22nd says: No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

The argument hinges on the difference between “being President” and “being elected President.”

The only disqualifications explicitly spelled out for “being President” is to be under 35 or not a natural born U.S. citizen.  Trump’s team has a fairly clear argument here that if the 22nd meant to say a two-turn President can never BE President or hold the office, they could have written it to say so. 

Clearly the people who wrote the Constitution and the Amendments never imagined a party or party members who would cuck themselves so severely as to let a two term president weasel his way back into the White House by having a patsy run for president with the "real" president running as VP.

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Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Clearly the people who wrote the Constitution and the Amendments never imagined a party or party members who would cuck themselves so severely as to let a two term president weasel his way back into the White House by having a patsy run for president with the "real" president running as VP.

I mean, yes, this is absolutely true on all counts. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, when the 12th was drafted and adopted, those two Art. II conditions were the only ones on POTUS' eligibility.  Did the 22nd create another condition of eligibility, or a term limit?

Historically presidents have retired from public life but what if one didn’t? No prohibition on running for office and becoming speaker or president pro temp, and being in the line of succession. 
 

Our institutions (and most others) are designed for people who can be trusted to respect them, which was what John Adams was trying to get at when he said “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”  

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Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Historically presidents have retired from public life but what if one didn’t? No prohibition on running for office and becoming speaker or president pro temp, and being in the line of succession. 
 

Our institutions (and most others) are designed for people who can be trusted to respect them, which was what John Adams was trying to get at when he said “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”  

What's going on right now is an indictment of the entire Republican Party.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is the constitutional question, which  is murky.

The 12th says: no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

The 22nd says: No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

The argument hinges on the difference between “being President” and “being elected President.”

The only disqualifications explicitly spelled out for “being President” is to be under 35 or not a natural born U.S. citizen.  Trump’s team has a fairly clear argument here that if the 22nd meant to say a two-turn President can never BE President or hold the office, they could have written it to say so. 

I hate lawyers so much.

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Posted (edited)

It's darkly funny to see the lawyers STILL not understanding that act like they're playing chess when the new game they're playing is Russian roulette. Even being at this table is a bad fuckin time, rules and laws have left us long ago because they simply couldn't keep up - how else could we end up here?

Edited by Captainant
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Posted

Turns out, over half of new HIV infections are SEC SEC SEC.

Check out the disclaimer on this:

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv-data/nhss/hiv-diagnoses-deaths-prevalence.html

"Per a court order, HHS is required to restore this website as of 11:59PM ET, February 11, 2025. Any information on this page promoting gender ideology is extremely inaccurate and disconnected from the immutable biological reality that there are two sexes, male and female. The Trump Administration rejects gender ideology and condemns the harms it causes to children, by promoting their chemical and surgical mutilation, and to women, by depriving them of their dignity, safety, well-being, and opportunities. This page does not reflect biological reality and therefore the Administration and this Department rejects it."

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Trump wants to have Kid Rock, Bill Maher, and maybe Dana White to the Oval. 
 

image.thumb.jpeg.bd0282197ecbec101a3fb927239a2b12.jpeg

Everything about this makes me want to kill myself.

How have we ended up in this place. It can't be real. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think he's looking for forgiveness.  He is looking for vindication and to be adored by everyone, or at least for his enemies to admit he was right.  That's why he's such a cunt about those who oppose him:  as a narcissist, it deeply wounds and offends him that not everyone loves him.

Jerry Jones GIF by SB Nation

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Posted

We’ve had mid-war presidential elections before. To re-elect the guy responsible for the 22nd, even.  Back when we still used to amend the constitution and treat it as intended as a living document, and not some religious artifact that is perfection incarnate. 

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

We’ve had mid-war presidential elections before. To re-elect the guy responsible for the 22nd, even.  Back when we still used to amend the constitution and treat it as intended as a living document, and not some religious artifact that is perfection incarnate. 

Yep,  and Lincoln had to run for president in the middle of the fucking Civil War,  wars don't get to stop elections in the U.S.

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Posted
4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's an interpretation that that language means the constitutional eligibility requirements of Article II, but not that of the 22nd Amendment.

We're talking about Trump here.  Republicans can't find enough ways to debase themselves before him.

Yeah but once you’re the president no matter who you are you ain’t stepping down. Well maybe Don Jr would

Posted
54 minutes ago, Grande Mart said:

Yep,  and Lincoln had to run for president in the middle of the fucking Civil War,  wars don't get to stop elections in the U.S.

Come to think of it, neither Lincoln nor Roosevelt survived to the end of those terms…

Posted
5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Clearly the people who wrote the Constitution and the Amendments never imagined a party or party members who would cuck themselves so severely as to let a two term president weasel his way back into the White House by having a patsy run for president with the "real" president running as VP.

I mean putin did it so........

Posted
5 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Zelenskyy is staying as a wartime President. I’m sure Trump was jealous. Prepare for a bigly war (some people are saying it’s the best war, the biggest war) in 2027

He's had Vance out and about in Greenland looking and sounding like a Temu-Zelenskyy, so that tracks.

Posted
4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

I mean putin did it so........

Putin was never vice president. He was prime minister. We don’t have that here. Trump’s narcissism won’t allow him to be VP even in name only. He will seek to remain president in 2029 by whatever means possible. History tells us that. He’s already telegraphing that. He has no intention of yielding power. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's darkly funny to see the lawyers STILL not understanding that act like they're playing chess when the new game they're playing is Russian roulette. Even being at this table is a bad fuckin time, rules and laws have left us long ago because they simply couldn't keep up - how else could we end up here?

I’m not a lawyer. 

Posted
8 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

We’ve had mid-war presidential elections before. To re-elect the guy responsible for the 22nd, even.  Back when we still used to amend the constitution and treat it as intended as a living document, and not some religious artifact that is perfection incarnate. 

Just a point of order.  Originalists, or textualists, or strict constructionists, any of the constitutional interpretation methods "in opposition" to a "living Constitution," do not hold the original document as perfect.  Rather, they hold that if it is to encompass and address matters not confronted by society at the time of ratification, it should be amended, in order to more democratically address such issues, or address them fully in the modern context in which they occur.

By the same token, amending the constitution and treating it as a "living document" are somewhat at odds.  If it's a perfect artifact, capable of addressing all societal issues via intention and penumbrae, why amend it?

Of course, none of these modes of interpretation can, by itself, solve all constitutional problems, so I guess it's fine to make a hash of them.

It's never not been Calvinball.  It's just that the practitioners now are more willing to transparently and dramatically change the rules more often.

 

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Posted
20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just a point of order. ...

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your contributions and discussions on this forum and think you bring a lot to Surly, but after reading the last two pages ending with the above, my reaction:

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I get what you're saying, but I'm not certain we're here for it at the mo, Mulder.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your contributions and discussions on this forum and think you bring a lot to Surly, but after reading the last two pages ending with the above, my reaction:

giphy.gif

I get what you're saying, but I'm not certain we're here for it at the mo, Mulder.

It's a threadjack.  Pato made kind of a mess of constitutional interpretation there.

Posted
On 3/29/2025 at 7:21 PM, Hank Kingsley said:

To bring it full circle for my fellow middle aged Horns, David Beebe was the lead singer for Banana Blender Surprise back in the 90s. Good dude, hung out with him last time I was in Marfa. 

 

 

fucking hell, i loved me some Banana Blender Surprise.  i used to have one of their CDs.  saw them several times at the Black Cat.

Saveena is a great song that still holds up.  this thread is always depressing but thinking about Banana Blender Surprise puts a smile on my face.

think i'll have a Royal Crown and a Moon Pie in their honor this week.

 

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Posted
13 hours ago, tigol said:

Turns out, over half of new HIV infections are SEC SEC SEC.

Check out the disclaimer on this:

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv-data/nhss/hiv-diagnoses-deaths-prevalence.html

"Per a court order, HHS is required to restore this website as of 11:59PM ET, February 11, 2025. Any information on this page promoting gender ideology is extremely inaccurate and disconnected from the immutable biological reality that there are two sexes, male and female. The Trump Administration rejects gender ideology and condemns the harms it causes to children, by promoting their chemical and surgical mutilation, and to women, by depriving them of their dignity, safety, well-being, and opportunities. This page does not reflect biological reality and therefore the Administration and this Department rejects it."

 

claims gender ideology is harmful; makes ideological claims about gender.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Accountability will come. 

 

Define "accountability".  Because quite frankly, I've yet to see any.

And don't use a civil judgment in a state case, because we've seen just how much significance that "accountability" has.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, immamac said:

Accountability will come. 

I prefer your prediction to Sarah Kendzior’s. Sadly, she has been fairly prescient for the last decade. There’s an excerpt of her latest book in Vanity Fair, in which she warns that the oligarchs are licking their chops at the money they will make after they drive this country into a second civil war. Edit: Her book is titled “the Last American Road Trip.”

 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/civil-war-mark-twain-fiction-trump-reality-excerpt?srsltid=AfmBOorXhApp-8m_4q1IMdXhGwDfi0-WfJMSqS-YG7asYpI3qUKwBTEJ

Edited by Willfully Horn
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, immamac said:

Accountability will come. 

Yeah, when the surviving members of the human race are picking through rubble looking for supplies.

Edited by Macanudo
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Posted
5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just a point of order.  Originalists, or textualists, or strict constructionists, any of the constitutional interpretation methods "in opposition" to a "living Constitution," do not hold the original document as perfect.

Counterpoint of order.  We hate "ists" just as much as we hate "isms".

3d95af2e-efad-4f84-877e-8a24c0c3b690_tex

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Posted
1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

France joins Brazil in immediately holding their right wing nut politicians accountable for their crimes. Add Garland’s DOJ to the list of why we can’t have nice things.

It's really hard to predict future historiogrphical trends based upon the here and now, especially as historians use their own biases in the future in those trends. Having said that, I bet we see these as examples to how American exceptionalism brushed aside any worries in a "it couldn't happen here" hubris that ultimately led to Trumpism's rise after Biden. 

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Posted

US orders French companies to comply with Trump's diversity ban

PARIS, March 29 (Reuters) - The Trump administration has ordered some French companies with U.S. government contracts to comply with his executive order banning diversity, equity, and inclusion programmes, highlighting the extraterritorial reach of U.S. policies and their potential impact on European corporate practices.
The companies have been told to confirm their compliance in a questionnaire entitled "Certification Regarding Compliance With Applicable Federal Anti-Discrimination Law." Reuters has seen a copy of the questionnaire.

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

Accountability will come. 

This is true.  And why we need you to be prepared to torch the Surly servers on a minutes notice when the raid occurs !

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