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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 No, they aren’t stuck. They delude themselves into believing that campaigns are won and lost on policies instead of delivering targeted calls to action that resonate with a sufficient cross section of the electorate to capture majorities.  

I think what you mean is that the Dems should market to the single-issue morons and the monsters of our society - unfortunately, the Rs have a monopoly on them, and they have to be fed with the type of malicious bullshit that we're seeing now, so uhhh ...

no-fuck-that.gif

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Posted
34 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That and also missing the massive closed-loop propaganda ecosystem that exists solely to affirm and reinforce GOP marketing and for which the Democrats have no equivalent. 

The more closed a loop is, the more quickly it collapses and fragile it becomes. Democrats need to focus their energies on infecting and coopting the GOP propaganda apparatus, an equivalent apparatus would just make things worse and efforts to that purpose are wasted.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gap03 said:

I think what you mean is that the Dems should market to the single-issue morons and the monsters of our society - unfortunately

No, but holding a majority coalition in such contempt and disdain is also symptomatic of why Democrats lose.

Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 Nope. I’m advocating that they get good at marketing, which I’ve been saying consistently on these boards for 20+ years. To equate being good at marketing with deception is a category error and symptomatic of how lost Democrats are right now.

Can you list a number of people in your life that you have persuaded to cast a vote that you preferred? Extra points if they needed an organ transplant.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

And if they win lying that they support policies they know they don't, then what's the point?

Lie about policies? What on earth? They should almost never even talk about policies. I don’t see how I can be more clear here. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 Nope. I’m advocating that they get good at marketing, which I’ve been saying consistently on these boards for 20+ years. To equate being good at marketing with deception is a category error and symptomatic of how lost Democrats are right now.

I think the point they're trying to make that you're overlooking is that you can't "out market" lies. Especially when they WANT to believe those lies.

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Posted

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing debate (shouldn't y'all be talking about that stuff in the Democratic Party thread?), AG Bondi is going after the American Bar Association over DEI shit and threatening to revoke its status as the government-sanctioned accreditor of U.S. law schools.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-attorney-general-presses-aba-drop-law-school-dei-rule-or-risk-losing-2025-03-05/

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Can you list a number of people in your life that you have persuaded to cast a vote that you preferred? Extra points if they needed an organ transplant.

Hmm. Well most of them are one-offs, but in terms of degree of difficulty I was pretty proud of convincing 97% of the mostly baby boomer and older attendees of a neighborhood association meeting to support a resolution to ask the Austin  city council to upzone their own neighborhood, despite opponents of the resolution stacking the room with ringers and lying about what the resolution said. Not many examples of that…

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Posted
8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing debate (shouldn't y'all be talking about that stuff in the Democratic Party thread?), AG Bondi is going after the American Bar Association over DEI shit and threatening to revoke its status as the government-sanctioned accreditor of U.S. law schools.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-attorney-general-presses-aba-drop-law-school-dei-rule-or-risk-losing-2025-03-05/

@TwiceHorn has assured me that the first duty of a lawyer is to their client and that the legal profession is definitely NOT in an ethical crisis, so everything’s jake!

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think the point they're trying to make that you're overlooking is that you can't "out market" lies. Especially when they WANT to believe those lies.

Of course you can, that’s ridiculous. Trump’s voters generally know he lies all the time and probably half of them dislike it. They vote for him in spite of it, not because of it. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, safe sex said:

When Democrats try to run on soundbites and emotion, they get pushed about their policy goals. Kamala tried campaigning on vibes for a while, and then the entire media ecosystem was all "What's Kamala's plan for x, y, and z, over and over and over again while completely ignoring Trump's utter lack of a plan. And the Republicans, of course, were even lying about having concepts of a plan.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU COMPETE WHEN YOU ARE HELD TO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STANDARDS?

This is another symptom- Democrats aren’t held by it. They just choose to play by the rules of a media ecosystem as they were in 2008. We no longer live in that world. Democrats are free to do other things and make their own weather. They just don’t, for some reason.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, but holding a majority coalition in such contempt and disdain is also symptomatic of why Democrats lose.

Well, it's a good thing I'm not in Democratic leadership, but look the fuck around - the majority deserves all the contempt and disdain I can muster right now.  I think some pragmatism is warranted, and the reality is that your "just market better" and "infect the GOP propaganda apparatus" (btw - are you a fucking mgmt consultant?) isn't the Rosetta Stone that you think it is.

Posted
Just now, Gap03 said:

Well, it's a good thing I'm not in Democratic leadership, but look the fuck around - the majority deserves all the contempt and disdain I can muster right now.  I think some pragmatism is warranted, and the reality is that your "just market better" and "infect the GOP propaganda apparatus" (btw - are you a fucking mgmt consultant?) isn't the Rosetta Stone that you think it is.

Ok cool

Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Of course you can, that’s ridiculous. Trump’s voters generally know he lies all the time and probably half of them dislike it. They vote for him in spite of it, not because of it. 

They don't dislike that he lies, they think he's telling the truth and just being foiled by the evil libs. It's a classic fascist technique: paint your enemy as equally inept and all powerful. When you need to be victimized to boost your base, the enemy is powerful. When you need to thump your chest and make a scene, the enemy is weak and helpless and begging to be crushed. 

It's called cognitive dissonance. It's a hell of a drug

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Hmm. Well most of them are one-offs, but in terms of degree of difficulty I was pretty proud of convincing 97% of the mostly baby boomer and older attendees of a neighborhood association meeting to support a resolution to ask the Austin  city council to upzone their own neighborhood, despite opponents of the resolution stacking the room with ringers and lying about what the resolution said. Not many examples of that…

That sounds pretty policy heavy to me, contrary to...

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Lie about policies? What on earth? They should almost never even talk about policies.

Congrats, tho it doesn't support your point. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

That sounds pretty policy heavy to me, contrary to...

Congrats, tho it doesn't support your point. 

 Nope. The resolution passed because what the voters cared about was their problems and developing a clear and immediate sense of who was on their side. Getting them to support the resolution was just a question of aligning to those things. The policy, if you can call it that, was just the outcome. 

Posted
11 minutes ago, elfenix said:

hearing jd fat eyelinered face vance's petulant gaslighting about zelensky not grovelling low enough in front of trump had me raging and cursing today.

 

he must have a ton of sephora points 

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Posted
7 hours ago, safe sex said:

When Democrats try to run on soundbites and emotion, they get pushed about their policy goals. Kamala tried campaigning on vibes for a while, and then the entire media ecosystem was all "What's Kamala's plan for x, y, and z, over and over and over again while completely ignoring Trump's utter lack of a plan. And the Republicans, of course, were even lying about having concepts of a plan.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU COMPETE WHEN YOU ARE HELD TO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STANDARDS?

I will again refer to the GOP’s closed-loop propaganda ecosystem. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The more closed a loop is, the more quickly it collapses and fragile it becomes. Democrats need to focus their energies on infecting and coopting the GOP propaganda apparatus, an equivalent apparatus would just make things worse and efforts to that purpose are wasted.

You’re right, Navalny should have just used the VGTRK against Putin, why didn’t he hire a marketing expert to tell him that. So easy. 

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Posted
6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

he must have a ton of sephora points 

+1.   ^^^^^^^This post needs more love^^^^^^

 

Also, what is up with the derails lately? First the damn gerrymandering and now the Democratic Party and all that ails it debate. 🙄

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

@TwiceHorn has assured me that the first duty of a lawyer is to their client and that the legal profession is definitely NOT in an ethical crisis, so everything’s jake!

I did no such thing (assure you that the legal profession is not in crisis).  I explained that the first duty to the client creates counterintuitive ethical situations.

This has nothing to do with that.

But yeah, with guys like Bove and Edward Martin violating all kinds of governmental if not ethical norms, parts of the profession are indeed moving to crisis mode.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

We aren’t there yet, come on.

You don't think there's a State Media apparatus working in coordination with trumpco to make chuds think they're making the frogs gay and the mice trans?

Would you be interested in buying a beach house in Nebraska by any chance? I hear there's some nice bridges for sale too

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Posted
18 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

Nothing against you for posting this, but I’m so tired of BTC, Occupy Democrats, etc. posting again and again with “TOTAL TAKEDOWN OF TRUMP”/“REPUBLICANS EXPOSED”/“MAGA RIDICULED” kind of shit. It’s just fodder for the base, and doesn’t tell the real story, which is that the current admin continues to do pretty much whatever it wants and no one is mounting an actual effective effort to stop them. It’s just hopium.

100% agree. I think BTC, Luke Beasley, David Pakman, etc. are good people generally trying to do good work, but they all partake in the engagement machine for clicks/subscribers and it results in nothing moving the needle. 

 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I did no such thing (assure you that the legal profession is not in crisis).  I explained that the first duty to the client creates counterintuitive ethical situations.

This has nothing to do with that.

But yeah, with guys like Bove and Edward Martin violating all kinds of governmental if not ethical norms, parts of the profession are indeed moving to crisis mode.

I think you are understating reality. When it has been proven by actions that laws and the constitution that underlies them don’t have to be followed, I would posit that the entire legal profession has been turned on its head. Our judicial system is a joke and works to the benefit of the rich and powerful. If polled, what percentage of respondents would respond that they have trust in our legal system? I have lost all trust and I come from a family of attorneys, including a federal judge appointed by Truman.

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You don't think there's a State Media apparatus working in coordination with trumpco to make chuds think they're making the frogs gay and the mice trans?

Of course I do. But it’s not impenetrable yet. Democrats can still get on Twitter, Fox, Rogan, etc. 

And of course one of you will say the deck is stacked against them, and of course it is. But asymmetry is interesting and comes with its own set of advantages.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, royiv said:

I think you are understating reality. When it has been proven by actions that laws and the constitution that underlies them don’t have to be followed, I would posit that the entire legal profession has been turned on its head. Our judicial system is a joke and works to the benefit of the rich and powerful. If polled, what percentage of respondents would respond that they have trust in our legal system? I have lost all trust and I come from a family of attorneys, including a federal judge appointed by Truman.

If polled, what percentage of respondents would respond that they have trust in our medical system? Financial system? Local, state, federal government? Which of those systems works to the benefit of the rich and powerful?

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Of course I do. But it’s not impenetrable yet. Democrats can still get on Twitter, Fox, Rogan, etc. 

And of course one of you will say the deck is stacked against them, and of course it is. But asymmetry is interesting and comes with its own set of advantages.

I don't disagree that they should be getting out there and counter programming, but it's not about reasoning and appeal. It's about giving permission to hate. That's the core selling pitch for the republican party. 

Democracy relies on us not resorting to our baser instincts. Trump is permission to be the mosr base and id version of yourself that you can muster.

Edited by Captainant
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Posted
4 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

If polled, what percentage of respondents would respond that they have trust in our medical system? Financial system? Local, state, federal government? Which of those systems works to the benefit of the rich and powerful?

Whataboutism at its finest right here, folks.

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Posted
Just now, gernblansten said:

Avoidance at its worst right there, folks.

Fuck off. Everything sucks. Don’t try to act like one aspect sucking justifies everything else sucking, dipshit.

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