What Went Wrong With Young Men

[Incredulity 11686]

27 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Now, for whatever reason, these young boys aren't motivated to get a girl.  My theory is that it's porn.  While they still may have the urges, they don't know how to talk to an actual girl.  They have a sexual and economic entitlement and when they can't get laid and see women doing better, they get angry.

I'll be a conservative here for a second.  After porn, another factor is the lack of real father figures and as a result, you learn about "masculinity" from some dickhead on a podcast.

Porn has also completely perverted the sexual experience expectations all of which will be cataloged on social media if they aren't Dirk Diggler right out of the gate.

[SimonBolivar 10961]

52 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

Going off the young guys in my office, the first step for them to having success with women would be to interested in spending time with one or talking about their interests. I'm surprised how high of a hurdle that is these days. 

My young dudes at work are actually pretty good at talking to the ladies, but they didn't even bother registering. 

[ztejas 43741]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I’m 42 and neither me or my wife want kids. 

But you understand that that is rare - correct?

7 minutes ago, G650 said:

You don't say.

I think if the idea of a fulfilling family life with kids was viewed as more attainable by younger generations then there would be more social connection and as a result more sex.

Does that make sense? 

[sushihorn 3233]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

I've never been shit on by woke leftists.

Usually you have to pay extra for that. 

[aggie08 21578]

21 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

My guess is that young people are more comfortable with people who are different than them.  What they hear from older adults calling broad groups racists, misogynists, nazis, etc., doesn’t compute with their life experiences and it’s a big turnoff. 

How about calling them pedophiles, groomers, trannies, betas, and "DEI hires"?

Edited November 6 by aggie08

[Rip76 4986]

1 hour ago, RabidM said:

Their propaganda machine is too effective. Social media makes it too easy to radicalize people. 

This certainly goes both ways.

[Vertuzzi 1407]

8 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I know many on here disagreed about my insistence that she do it, but the Joe Rogan interview is a good summation.

The goal was never to "win" the interview, it was to show young men that you are at least attempting to reach out to them.  

It's obvious that it wouldn't have mattered in the long run, but "Kamala had time for SNL but not for Rogan" is a hell of a confirmation for what a lot of them currently think about the Democratic party.

Spot on here. I don’t agree with Rogan on many issues but I do have to tip my cap to him in that he is always willing to sit down and listen to people, even if he disagrees with them.
Even during the Trump interview, Trump kept saying that Kamala wouldn’t come on the show because she was afraid of being dismantled by Rogan for 3 hours. To his credit, Rogan corrected him multiple times saying that he wouldn’t do that and his only objective was to just have a conversation with her to get to know her. 
I think it was a mistake to not go on Rogan because his podcast reaches millions of people, people that are not tuning into SNL. You’re correct when you say that going on Rogan would have at least shown a willingness to connect with younger male voters. 

[StassneyHorn 6692]

One last thought while I still remember…

This generation currently has the largest LGBTQ identification. Like not even close to what most of you experienced in your teens. Go in a time machine to when you were in high school and you can probably name one or two. You probably weren’t homophobic then but you definitely thought that shit was weird as a teenager. You are probably way more accepting as an adult than you were at 16, but today’s generation has WAY more of that stuff thrown at them and told to accept it without asking questions. How would 16 year old you react? 

Edited November 6 by StassneyHorn

[EuroHorn 3276]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

How about calling them pedophiles, groomers, and trannies?

Well that would be part of etc.

[ztejas 43741]

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Porn has also completely perverted the sexual experience expectations all of which will be cataloged on social media if they aren't Dirk Diggler right out of the gate.

This is such a fallacy. Porn is a way for men to not have to go find a woman to have sex with them. 

Porn isn't "reefer madnessing" all of the crazy kids into not wanting to have sex with anyone other than Mia Khalifa or whoever. I watch a lot of porn. You know who I still want to fuck who still get my dick hard? Fucking any reasonably attractive female within a certain age bracket.

You should know - you (presumbaly) have a penis. Maybe I'll let Patrice take over on this point. 

 

 

[G650 14301]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

I think if the idea of a fulfilling family life with kids was viewed as more attainable by younger generations then there would be more social connection and as a result more sex.

Does that make sense? 

I disagree with that notion, not that the biological imperative for sex comes from our reproductive drive. We are much more complex than that, and have brains capable of rationalizing that another male drive, to impregnate as many females as possible, is more attainable by being unattached, along with the fact that not actually getting the women pregnant allows us even more money and freedom. And as we age and hormones subside, we also are able to rationalize the positives of committed partnerships, hence where the institutions of marriage and monogamy come from, even if they aren't perfect for everyone.

[aggie08 21578]

2 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Well that would be part of etc.

Right. Your omission of the other side of the coin was accidental. My mistake.

[mchookem 16513]

i've only read part of the first page but...there's literally nothing coming out of Hollywood but comic book and marvel universe shit and speeding exploding cars and fucking godzilla and transformers and shit...and young men are aggrieved about it? omg gtfoh 🤣🤣🤣

[G650 14301]

5 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

How would 16 year old you react? 

That's a good question, no idea.

[Celery Man 21026]

past the service economy job shifts, I assume we've talked about growing up on hardcore porn, etc - most of their male role models have been poisoned and are raising them on the same kinds of grievances that have caused our moral failure as a nation

[EuroHorn 3276]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Right. Your omission of the other side of the coin was accidental. My mistake.

No worries!

[ztejas 43741]

8 minutes ago, G650 said:

I disagree with that notion, not that the biological imperative for sex comes from our reproductive drive. We are much more complex than that, and have brains capable of rationalizing that another male drive, to impregnate as many females as possible, is more attainable by being unattached, along with the fact that not actually getting the women pregnant allows us even more money and freedom. And as we age and hormones subside, we also are able to rationalize the positives of committed partnerships, hence where the institutions of marriage and monogamy come from, even if they aren't perfect for everyone.

You're talking past me man. Everything you just said should result in people having less sex. i.e. - transhumanism

Especially the part about getting married. (I'll be here all week)

Edited November 6 by ztejas

[Nice Guy Eddie 13539]

I've heard stories about many young men struggling to find their way in life. They fail in school relative to their female counterparts which leads next to earning less money. I can only imagine the lack of romantic interests for many of them. Personally I have a few friends who's sons appear to fit this description. Successful parents but the sons are in minimum wage jobs a few years out of high school. I'm not putting them down but just an observation.

If the status quo isn't working for you, then you look to change up something like who's in power. 

There also looks to be tremendous pressure on young men with their insecurity regarding their masculinity. And even hinting that you support a Democratic policy much less a candidate and you're called a beta by some. And being called a beta is fighting words even if it's a stranger doing so.

 

 

[Incredulity 11686]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This is such a fallacy. Porn is a way for men to not have to go find a woman to have sex with them. 

Porn isn't "reefer madnessing" all of the crazy kids into not wanting to have sex with anyone other than Mia Khalifa or whoever. I watch a lot of porn. You know who I still want to fuck who still get my dick hard? Fucking any reasonably attractive female within a certain age bracket.

You should know - you (presumbaly) have a penis. Maybe I'll let Patrice take over on this point. 

 

 

none of what you said is is related to my point.  My point was immediate and continuous access to porn showing sexual encounters that don't remotely represent sex people actually have put incredible stress on young men trying to figure out what the fuck they are supposed to be doing.   The VHS tapes commonly available in my youth MAYBE showed a threesome or anal sex...and you saw that maybe for a total of few hours in your entire adolescence.   Genie is out of the bottle and I don't know how it can be fixed, but I don't believe its healthy to repeatedly watch a lot of what is table stakes in porn today.

[G650 14301]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

none of what you said is is related to my point.  My point was immediate and continuous access to porn showing sexual encounters that don't remotely represent sex people actually have put incredible stress on young men trying to figure out what the fuck they are supposed to be doing.   The VHS tapes commonly available in my youth MAYBE showed a threesome or anal sex...and you saw that maybe for a total of few hours in your entire adolescence.   Genie is out of the bottle and I don't know how it can be fixed, but I don't believe its healthy to repeatedly watch a lot of what is table stakes in porn today.

I agree with this. I don't think it's necessarily the volume of porn, but more the content.

[sushihorn 3233]

Kamala’s campaign specifically didn’t speak to men. When presented with an opportunity to make a case why men should vote for her, she talked about women’s issues and told men they should be supportive of women. Who is attracted to being told your job is to be a bit player in someone else’s story?  Humans each have their own story and they all want to be the protagonist of that story  Ego is pretty universal  

 

[High Plains Drifter 11055]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

A lot of them are having a hard time finding their place in the world.  The good paying jobs are not good enough to payoff student debt, a mortgage, or start a family.  The job market is also incredibly dehumanizing.  You have to chain yourself to a shitty job just to get decent healthcare.  It not great when you wake up realizing your labor has been mostly to payoff banks instead of building wealth like the previous generations did by pulling up the bootstraps.  There’s a sad hopelessness that the American dream is forever out of reach for young men and it would take a strongman sent by god to correct course.  A decent education is also becoming increasingly unaffordable and possibly useless in the economy ahead. 

 

That may all be true, but is it not also true for young women?

 

[MinerProphet 71]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

We're becoming transhuman and it's flipping a lot of traditional roles and values on their heads. If we even make it it's going to be a bumpy transition because it's happening too quickly. 

I think that coupled with single males not having enough money to spend on women let alone have kids explains about 99% of it. 

Also all of their genders and sexualities are weirdly and artificially (imo) fucked up. Which I'm fine with from a human rights perspective but I'm not sure it's healthy or optimal for a functioning society. 

This. I think it's 80% economic and 20% echo chambering that makes it impossible for folks to soberly and clearly assess the real world sentiment and social temperature of the hoi polloi.

1 minute ago, sushihorn said:

Kamala’s campaign specifically didn’t speak to men. When presented with an opportunity to make a case why men should vote for her, she talked about women’s issues and told men they should be supportive of women. Who is attracted to being told your job is to be a bit player in someone else’s story?  Humans each have their own story and they all want to be the protagonist of that story  Ego is pretty universal  

 

This too. The big bet was on Abortion and it didn't pay off like the models and pundits thought it would.

[wildcat09 29453]

Guys, the answer is obvious.

Trump Offered Men Something that Democrats Never Could:

Quote

On the long road to Election Day, no group of voters was more loyal to Donald Trump than young white men. One early theory was that his success with this demographic was a result of male isolation and loneliness. But that showed a fundamental misunderstanding of Mr. Trump’s appeal. He did so well with male voters because he is a walking avatar of a kind of masculinity that Democrats could never embrace, and its appeal transcends this electoral cycle.

Mr. Trump offered a regressive idea of masculinity in which power over women is a birthright. That this appealed in particular to white men was not a coincidence — it intersects with other types of entitlement, including the idea that white people are superior to other races and more qualified to hold positions of power, and that any success that women and minorities have has been unfairly conferred to them by D.E.I. programs, affirmative action and government set-asides. For men unhappy with their status, this view offers a group of people to blame, which feels more tangible than blaming systemic problems like rising economic inequality and the difficulty of adapting to technological and cultural changes.

The Trump campaign was channeling what psychologists call “hegemonic masculinity,” the belief that “good” men are dominant in hierarchies of power and status, that they are mentally and physically tough, that they must embody the opposite of anything feminine — and that this dominance over not just women but all less powerful groups is the natural order and what’s best for everyone.

A 2021 study by the psychologists Theresa Vescio and Nathaniel Schermerhorn found that hegemonic masculinity was a better predictor of whether people saw Mr. Trump as a good leader in 2016 and 2020 than sexism or racism alone. It was a better predictor than trust in government or even party affiliation.

Mr. Trump’s rally speeches were rambling, but they expressed this worldview consistently and constantly. I don’t believe it was strategic; Mr. Trump himself has always venerated power and status for their own sake, dominance over women and hostility toward minorities. He has always referred to himself as the toughest, the best, the strongest, the most, the winner. He was just being himself.

When he wanted to insult his enemies he identified them by qualities that the rules of hegemonic masculinity code as feminine: less intelligent (“low-I.Q.” Robert DeNiro), feminized (“Tampon Tim” Walz), weak (“sleepy Joe”). If the enemy was a woman, he described her through a lens of sexuality or motherhood, because for him that’s a woman’s primary value to men. So it’s no surprise that he painted Ms. Harris as “low-I.Q.” and “lazy” and gleefully suggested that she slept her way to the top.

You could hear it all when Tucker Carlson invited a crowd to imagine how preposterous it would be for Ms. Harris to claim victory. “She got 85 million votes,” he said sarcastically, “because she’s just so impressive as the first Samoan-Malaysian, low-I.Q., former California prosecutor ever to be elected president.” Mr. Trump has made this kind of open bigotry acceptable for Republicans, and it’s not going to just disappear before the next election cycle.

Professionally successful, non-childbearing women can look like a threat, both to the men who adhere to these ideals and to the hierarchy that enables the men to justify their status and power. For men who feel displaced, accusing women and minorities of benefiting from an unfair advantage, demanding that their supposedly ill-gotten gains be rolled back and their subordinate position restored, might be an appealing option. It’s one that the Trump campaign encouraged at every turn.

There’s an irony to this, in that actual systems of advantage — inherited wealth, legacy admissions to elite colleges, nepotistic professional advancement — were all designed to benefit white men. Perhaps no one embodies this unearned privilege better than Mr. Trump, but the ideological framework he operates in does not allow for acknowledging it. Instead, its beneficiaries insist that the rest of the world contort itself into a reactionary power structure.

Connect the dots — the snide insults and the brotastic podcasts and the attack on reproductive rights and the emphasis on natalism — and you get a world in which women are told to drop out of the labor force and attend to domestic matters, making themselves sexually available (but only to their husbands), producing children and supporting their husband’s career, regardless of the effect on their work, time and happiness.

Some observers faulted Ms. Harris for not doing enough to accommodate a regressive view of masculinity, suggesting that she could have picked up some votes by, say, proposing military service as a cure for male alienation, or by avoiding reasonable critiques of sexism because they might make some men feel like they’re being attacked. But prescriptions like these only reinforce hegemonic masculinity, and that is incompatible with a vision for America where the needs and interests of women and minorities are not valued less than those of white men.

It is not the responsibility of women to convince men of our humanity, abilities and potential. But the view of masculinity that Mr. Trump appeals to harms men, too, offering appealingly simple answers that ultimately leave their adherents that much more isolated.

White boys used to grow up knowing they'd be at the top of the food chain in a social system that forced women to serve them and today's white boys are angry that's no longer the case.

[Frank Drebin 5679]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Guys, the answer is obvious.

Trump Offered Men Something that Democrats Never Could:

White boys used to grow up knowing they'd be at the top of the food chain in a social system that forced women to serve them and today's white boys are angry that's no longer the case.

15 million democrats not showing to vote up for Kamala was the difference.  Don't blame us.

[Macanudo 13080]

How would 16 year old me react?  

Would I get to watch the hot lesbian cheerleaders get it on?

[Bozo_Casanova 26670]

13 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

That may all be true, but is it not also true for young women?

 

Less true. Women have more more and better social structures.

[Skipper 6292]

2 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

From MSNBC.  Pull the slider to  @ 1:00

 

 

 

I think the economy drove the election as a whole but do think this explains a big chunk of young voters particularly on college campuses.  I saw data last night showing young voters skewing trump and anecotal discussion about fraternities at Michigan State and other schools that are typically disinterested in politics organizing to "get out the vote" for Trump.   I have no doubt all of the idiotic 'free palestine' encampments impacting college campuses across the country pissed off the silent majority.  Their revenge was voting for Trump.   

[Brisketexan 105567]

39 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Usually you have to pay extra for that. 

Man...back in college, I put on the HARD sell to this hairy-armpitted German hippie chick at one of the co-ops, hoping to close the deal.

I'm not proud of that.  

But I'm also not ashamed.

[orange dream 1260]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Man...back in college, I put on the HARD sell to this hairy-armpitted German hippie chick at one of the co-ops, hoping to close the deal.

I'm not proud of that.  

But I'm also not ashamed.

Edited November 6 by orange dream

[Brisketexan 105567]

11 minutes ago, orange dream said:

Oh, my friend....back in the day, I was hitting for bases, not for average.  You know what going 1 for 10 was?  A fucking awesome Saturday night, that's what it was.  Because all you gotta count is the 1.

[tx 3 putt 77919]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

What went wrong with white women? 

 

the fear of white privilege shrinking on them 

[immamac 43553]

26 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

15 million democrats not showing to vote up for Kamala was the difference.  Don't blame us.

Truth hurts. 

[bluto 4947]

Ygifs was pretty damn plugged into UT and campus political movements, I remember him talking about bitch ass Charlie Kirk’s movement from a few yrs ago and how it was starting to make serious inroads. Looks like the harvest arrived. 

[G650 14301]

I'd just like to reiterate this isn't about the election yesterday, but a decades long trend. It's probably one of our biggest social problems.

[Cairn Horn88 8432]

Not for one second would I ever believe that Trump is a role model for young men….but apparently, many believe he is….but I’d never want my son to emulate that turd.

[Macanudo 13080]

Or as Brisket would have found out "Sheiße kaffee ist für Schließer."

[Vegas64 678]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

I'd just like to reiterate this isn't about the election yesterday, but a decades long trend. It's probably one of our biggest social problems.

Agreed. And the guy who made the point about hardcore porn at fingertips for kids and the normalization isn't wrong just because he's wrong about most things.

[StassneyHorn 6692]

Doubling down on white privilege talk when you need their support is certainly a losing battle. While it still exists to an extent today, 18 year olds today were born in 2006, not the 1950s

[Vegas64 678]

15 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

the fear of white privilege shrinking on them 

What was that Bill Burr quote? White women swung their Gucci booted feet over the fence to piggyback on the MeToo movement when it was convenient. 

[wildcat09 29453]

Johnny's BFF right here.

[Kennythetiger 9496]

9 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Not for one second would I ever believe that Trump is a role model for young men….but apparently, many believe he is….but I’d never want my son to emulate that turd.

President Obama was the first time I voted democrat for anything, and I was a young man at the time. He just seemed…..presidential. 

[Macanudo 13080]

Just now, Kennythetiger said:

President Obama was the first time I voted democrat for anything, and I was a young man at the time. He just seemed…..presidential. 

NBC made a new kind of "presidential" model.

[G650 14301]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Johnny's BFF right here.

A dude who has never had a choice ironically

[bad_teammate 13299]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

It's obvious that it wouldn't have mattered in the long run...

Perhaps as a one-off it wouldn't have mattered, but a persistent effort to actively embrace perhaps the strongest part of the American electorate would have mattered. Or if not embrace, then at least not actively antagonize to get Internet claps from fractions of a micro-percentage.

I'm not going to say Kamala is stupid for not going on Rogan, that's only something that looks dumb with the advantage of hindsight, but perhaps at some point the Democratic Party needs to keep the main thing the main thing and look at who their winning coalition is. Not the coalition that gives them the warm-fuzzies, but the winning one.

I don't know how accurate these CNN numbers are, but it speaks to something very important, which is that we've jumped the shark on the flagellation of white people by liberals. Enough with this tired shit that doesn't even work.

All of these voting bases are just voting bases that need to be enticed like any other. That's it.

[G650 14301]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't know how accurate these CNN numbers are, but it speaks to something very important, which is that we've jumped the shark on the flagellation of white people by liberals. Enough with this tired shit that doesn't even work.

I mean, I hear what you are saying, but the data you posted only shows a movement by latinos. White people are stagnant on these graphs

[jimmyjazz 46470]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

One last thought while I still remember…

This generation currently has the largest LGBTQ identification. Like not even close to what most of you experienced in your teens. Go in a time machine to when you were in high school and you can probably name one or two. You probably weren’t homophobic then but you definitely thought that shit was weird as a teenager. You are probably way more accepting as an adult than you were at 16, but today’s generation has WAY more of that stuff thrown at them and told to accept it without asking questions. How would 16 year old you react? 

In my experience modern teens actually do accept LGBTQ, gender and race differences with far more ease than we did.  Times have changed.

[Kennythetiger 9496]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

NBC made a new kind of "presidential" model.

President Bartlett made me want to be a better person. 
 

Of course I was in college at the time and usually fucked that up within 48 hours, but it’s the first and only time a tv show has ever done that for me. 

[linux 1662]

17 minutes ago, G650 said:

I'd just like to reiterate this isn't about the election yesterday, but a decades long trend. It's probably one of our biggest social problems.

Assuming fair elections the single biggest and tragically compounded by Project 2025 is nixing the former I am now an accelerationist, the decline is inevitable only a Biden could slow it (because he is a coward who refused to go ham) might as well crash and burn fast and quick so that people understand the consequences of whining about extra dollar for gas or not getting laid.

[bad_teammate 13299]

4 minutes ago, G650 said:

I mean, I hear what you are saying, but the data you posted only shows a movement by latinos. White people are stagnant on these graphs

Rightward shifts 2016-2024:

Black men +13
Black women +6

Latino men +43
Latino women +22

White men -8
White women -1

 

Edited November 6 by bad_teammate