What Went Wrong With Young Men

[Rex Kramer 1330]

2 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

From MSNBC.  Pull the slider to  @ 1:00

 

 

 

What’s the reason for your neg @PenelopeWitherspoon?

[G650 14229]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Rightward shifts 2016-2024:

Black men +13
Black women +6

Latino men +43
Latino women +22

White men -8
White women -1

 

Yes, those are pretty miniscule other than the latinos, as I said. And 2020-24 white and black women both shifted back to the left, white men were flat. Black men moved 4. Essentially no change whatsoever.

[linux 1660]

12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Perhaps as a one-off it wouldn't have mattered, but a persistent effort to actively embrace perhaps the strongest part of the American electorate would have mattered. Or if not embrace, then at least not actively antagonize to get Internet claps from fractions of a micro-percentage.

I'm not going to say Kamala is stupid for not going on Rogan, that's only something that looks dumb with the advantage of hindsight, but perhaps at some point the Democratic Party needs to keep the main thing the main thing and look at who their winning coalition is. Not the coalition that gives them the warm-fuzzies, but the winning one.

I don't know how accurate these CNN numbers are, but it speaks to something very important, which is that we've jumped the shark on the flagellation of white people by liberals. Enough with this tired shit that doesn't even work.

All of these voting bases are just voting bases that need to be enticed like any other. That's it.

Latinos did not decide the blue wall it is an indictment on Harris but that is not the reason for failure that we only netted a +3 from white women after Dobbs is what killed us. They were our only hope and THAT happened. Women (not just white) are the majority why the fuck did they still vote for him almost the exact same clip?

Edited November 6 by linux

[JBJ 3654]

It's a big reason why Florida is no longer a swing state and Arizona/Nevada are following suit.

[StassneyHorn 6573]

17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In my experience modern teens actually do accept LGBTQ, gender and race differences with far more ease than we did.  Times have changed.

Collectively yea. White teenage males? I’m not convinced.

[troph 24781]

I have 3 gen z sons, two are doing great they are excelling at school and want the girls to like them. they care about their appearance, having their accomplishments to make them feel good, getting good grades. One is clear and safe for sure. He thinks Trump is a fucking idiot. The other is younger and not sure. My oldest is 21 and lives with his other mother and is in community college, plays video games and smokes a lot of pot. I think I'll be 2/3 in this life with boys.

What I'll tell you is porn, social media, pot, finding something to excel at, and chasing the girls are the keys imo.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

What I'll tell you is porn, social media, pot, finding something to excel at, and chasing the girls are the keys imo.

Outside of social media that sounds like what would be printed on a brochure for the keys to a good life in 2024.

[troph 24781]

Just now, SimonBolivar said:

Outside of social media that sounds like what would be printed on a brochure for the keys to a good life in 2024.

well two of mine are killing it on that exact set of guidelines. excelling in school and band. avoiding drugs, chasing girls. my middle son hates social media does it some but not a lot. he's not even remotely into gaming. my youngest is a bit more of a gamer but he's a band rockstar and has even better grades than his brother.

but to your point about social media, actually getting off of insta and fb has been great for me. I don't miss it and my mental health is better.

so in 2024 I would say limiting social media is as important as any of the others.

[Pescado_Rojo 19412]

3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

To genuinely try to answer, without being in that age group anymore and not knowing exactly how their lives our being led in the modern world: 

 - Economic/job anxiety: Career/financial expectations have risen over the years but met with a tightened job market which is causing a lot of anxiety

- I'd guess relationships with women have deteriorated rapidly. In the 80s/90s/00s, being around similarly aged women was common place. Connections were common. Now in the modern world of social media and an increase in public disconnection, those relationships are dwindling. And anger is setting in. 

- These younger generations have been coddled and helicopter parented, which diminishes personal accountability. 

 

Lots of good points already made here, but I think this is a big part of it. We've looked down on blue collar work a while now. Boys that would be better off going into the trades instead go to some shitty directional state school or commuter college because it was the only place that would take them, then rack up a bunch of debt to get a shit degree that doesn't land them a good paying job. Then they're in an office setting surrounded by high achieving women who aren't very interested in them. I will say it seems like Gen Z is rediscovering the trades, and I'm hopeful it will be good for a lot of them. Those are mostly jobs that aren't going to get automated away and there's going to be a ton of jobs available as the boomers finally retire. 

[Pimphand 5732]

3 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Nothing.  They just help save the country.

Yeah my voter registration had me voting at Blinn yesterday and spent some time chatting with students and was shocked at the number of them who had been reached out to by the military for recruitment and that they 100% all said the Democrat party is the party of war.  The world has shifted on it's head because when I graduated it was the NeoCon Republican warhawks who thirst for blood and oil but they weren't wrong.  I did ask them if they wanted to be vaccine guinea pigs/pin cushions or bullet stopping meat shields for this insane government and also got a 100% decline rate.  I actually walked away with a smile on my face because I've been worried about whether or not the youth of America would rise to the upcoming challenges fearing they had been too mind controlled by social media and the degradation of the public education system but it seems by and large on my anecdotal evidence they see the lies and want no part of it and that warmed my blackened heart because they will instead fight for what's right.

[bad_teammate 13185]

17 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yes, those are pretty miniscule other than the latinos, as I said. And 2020-24 white and black women both shifted back to the left, white men were flat. Black men moved 4. Essentially no change whatsoever.

If you think "White Men +8" and "Black Men -13" are miniscule for Democrats then you're about as tuned in as the current Democratic leadership appears to be.

Also, if it's miniscule then why is the central focus of this thread and the larger Democratic zeitgeist the unrelenting horror problem of white men? Literally the group that swung hardest in the right direction over the last 8 years (at least according to the numbers provided)?

Why isn't this thread, "What went wrong with Latinos?"

The answer to that question is instructive.

[G650 14229]

3 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

We've looked down on blue collar work a while now.

I'm not sure that is really as true as people think.

[G650 14229]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If you think "White Men +8" and "Black Men -13" are miniscule for Democrats then you're about as tuned in as the current Democratic leadership appears to be.

Also, if it's miniscule then why is the central focus of this thread and the larger Democratic zeitgeist the unrelenting horror problem of white men? Literally the group that swung hardest in the right direction over the last 8 years (at least according to the numbers provided)?

Why isn't this thread, "What went wrong with Latinos?"

The answer to that question is instructive.

What? I said it's miniscule from 20 to 24, which it is. Essentially no change. White guys were literally the same. Whatever effect you are discussing flatlined.

 

And where the fuck did you get white men from anyway? Try reading the title again. And I will reiterate for the third time, since reading seems to be hard, this isn't about the election or the Democratic party and their success or not with young men.

[Hank_Hill 18787]

 

3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

- I'd guess relationships with women have deteriorated rapidly. In the 80s/90s/00s, being around similarly aged women was common place. Connections were common. Now in the modern world of social media and an increase in public disconnection, those relationships are dwindling. And anger is setting in. 

 

 

Yep, incels gonna incel

[crash_davis 23096]

Wrong or right, I think the optics is that the Democratic party is too focused on women, LBGQ, trans, immigrants, aliens, etc basically everyone but white males. When people willingly vote for a habitually lying, rapey, piece of shit, then it should be pretty self evident that the party's messaging and priorities are off.

Young males (whites, blacks, latinos) seem kinda lost right now. They are going with the party that, on the surface, at least doesn't blatantly ignore them and maybe even vilifies them. That and maybe "grab women by the pussy" just resonates with some assholes.

I don't see it getting any better. Automation is going to kill many low skill jobs. Not a matter of if, but when. Manufacturing aint moving here; plus they don't want to do it. I work in manufacturing, and we can't hire ever hire enough people even though the pay is above industry standard. Trades help, but there can be on only so many plumbers and mechanics.

The smart, educated women are digging in deeper after this election. They really really aren't going to date magat dudes.

Dudes will just get angrier. 

[softlynow 1812]

The stories are great, but the segment of white young men that are not doing well is not children of the surly 1%ers.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s the middle class guys with middling or worse grades and zero drive to do anything that doesn’t involve being alone on a screen.

In the past, the workforce just needed lots of bodies and the good ole boy network would take care of you, to a certain extent. Women taking so many office jobs that aren’t clerical means fewer of those guys just are needed.

Add in that they’re a special snowflake, and lack of talent, smarts or motivation doesn’t = loser it means conspiracy(!), so they act accordingly. 

A sad truth of humanity is there will always be marginalized groups. You can’t demarginalize loser young men without returning to the repression of other groups. If the world was truly out to get them, I’d feel sorry for them. It isn’t, they just don’t look in the mirror when assessing their shitty situations. DEI is to blame, not those Cs and Ds they got in high school.

I’m sure some upper middle class boys are seduced by being alone in their room, too. But there have always been black sheep. The numbers come from the paycheck-to-paycheck households. 

[linux 1660]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

Wrong or right, I think the optics is that the Democratic party is too focused on women, LBGQ, trans, immigrants, aliens, etc basically everyone but white males. When people willingly vote for a habitually lying, rapey, piece of shit, then it should be pretty self evident that the party's messaging and priorities are off.

Young males (whites, blacks, latinos) seem kinda lost right now. They are going with the party that, on the surface, at least doesn't blatantly ignore them and maybe even vilifies them. That and maybe "grab women by the pussy" just resonates with some assholes.

I don't see it getting any better. Automation is going to kill many low skill jobs. Not a matter of if, but when. Manufacturing aint moving here; plus they don't want to do it. I work in manufacturing, and we can't hire ever hire enough people even though the pay is above industry standard. Trades help, but there can be on only so many plumbers and mechanics.

The smart, educated women are digging in deeper after this election. They really really aren't going to date magat dudes.

Dudes will just get angrier. 

I keep repeating myself but there is no other venue for me and don't know what else to do right now, accelarationsim is the only hope, Musk wants to deregulate, start austerity, 0 deficit economy, on year 1 then let them, just simple words of if you break it you own it. Trump going ahead with it would also detail his intentions. A Third "term" in an unfree election is squarely on his mind so making the economy scream will help plan ahead.

Once young men see true hardship, and possible civil war they will understand the pointlessness of their video games and not getting laid.

[David Dennison 18837]

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Young men sound like pussies, to me. 

Hell, most of them don't even know how to drive or talk to women.  

We're a nation of Charlie Kirks. 

Is there anyone in America who isn't a pussy at this point?

[linux 1660]

2 minutes ago, softlynow said:

The stories are great, but the segment of white young men that are not doing well is not children of the surly 1%ers.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s the middle class guys with middling or worse grades and zero drive to do anything that doesn’t involve being alone on a screen.

In the past, the workforce just needed lots of bodies and the good ole boy network would take care of you, to a certain extent. Women taking so many office jobs that aren’t clerical means fewer of those guys just are needed.

Add in that they’re a special snowflake, and lack of talent, smarts or motivation doesn’t = loser it means conspiracy(!), so they act accordingly. 

A sad truth of humanity is there will always be marginalized groups. You can’t demarginalize loser young men without returning to the repression of other groups. If the world was truly out to get them, I’d feel sorry for them. It isn’t, they just don’t look in the mirror when assessing their shitty situations. DEI is to blame, not those Cs and Ds they got in high school.

I’m sure some upper middle class boys are seduced by being alone in their room, too. But there have always been black sheep. The numbers come from the paycheck-to-paycheck households. 

I think it is backwards in the sense that if they have free time on their hands is why they venture into echo chambers. If they were plumbers at 18 they might vote Republican but that would be normal. the seeping rage is what is dangerous, I have been warning about it for almost a decade now. Its about hurting people.

[Frank Drebin 5654]

5 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Wrong or right, I think the optics is that the Democratic party is too focused on women, LBGQ, trans, immigrants, aliens, etc basically everyone but white males. When people willingly vote for a habitually lying, rapey, piece of shit, then it should be pretty self evident that the party's messaging and priorities are off.

Young males (whites, blacks, latinos) seem kinda lost right now. They are going with the party that, on the surface, at least doesn't blatantly ignore them and maybe even vilifies them. That and maybe "grab women by the pussy" just resonates with some assholes.

I don't see it getting any better. Automation is going to kill many low skill jobs. Not a matter of if, but when. Manufacturing aint moving here; plus they don't want to do it. I work in manufacturing, and we can't hire ever hire enough people even though the pay is above industry standard. Trades help, but there can be on only so many plumbers and mechanics.

The smart, educated women are digging in deeper after this election. They really really aren't going to date magat dudes.

Dudes will just get angrier. 

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally.  Young males are better off avoiding them. Look at single women.  They are overwhelmingly liberal and were the misfit type in high school and college.  Married women are not.  They lean GOP and were more the sorority type in college.

Most men don't give a shit if their wives are successful professionals.  Most value a host of other things before their mate's earning potential. Plenty of attractive and conservative women.  Those are the ones who get married and are happy with life.  Many could be very successful professionals -- have my friends' wives (and mine) have MDs, MBAs, or JDs.  But most give that up once they have kids.  That's what it's like in my social circle.  Maybe 10% of the wives keep their careers as it is too difficult to balance with raising kids.  And my friends and I make enough where we don't need dual incomes.

I think young males seeking mates and liberal professionally successful women don't want each other equally.

[troph 24781]

51 minutes ago, linux said:

Latinos did not decide the blue wall it is an indictment on Harris but that is not the reason for failure that we only netted a +3 from white women after Dobbs is what killed us. They were our only hope and THAT happened. Women (not just white) are the majority why the fuck did they still vote for him almost the exact same clip?

white women let us down all the fucking time. sorry to say it but as a group it's true.

[softlynow 1812]

3 minutes ago, linux said:

I think it is backwards in the sense that if they have free time on their hands is why they venture into echo chambers. If they were plumbers at 18 they might vote Republican but that would be normal. the seeping rage is what is dangerous, I have been warning about it for almost a decade now. It’s about hurting people.

It my experience. Driven people are still driven. I see lots of clients and hear lots of stories. Purpose = you’re all right. None? 4chan for thee!

[Gatorubet 30183]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally. 

I think young males seeking mates and liberal professionally successful women don't want each other equally.

Poor Johnny Sack, the liberal women hate his neanderthal ass.   You are too stupid to realize that the core of your premise is the dumb incel boys need to avoid women who are smarter than they are.    

The smarter women have already taken care of that Johnny

[JBJ 3654]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

In my experience modern teens actually do accept LGBTQ, gender and race differences with far more ease than we did.  Times have changed.

It goes beyond not playing well with gen z.  They fucking loathe it.

How young black man feels about old white Democrats this AM:

[linux 1660]

Here is how their dating life is

1) They don't interact with women in third spaces, they have their video games and women their phone, IG and friends.

2) Since they don't interact the only sexual avenue is dating apps and women are picking the top 5% attractive men, not getting a swipe is a daily humiliation ritual. 

3) They abandon society enter discord servers with like minded males and become extremely hateful to the point of wanting to watch the world burn because women think they are ugly. Some don't even watch porn and join no fap movement.

This is extremely common, and growing the danger is that it is growing rapidly, and the only solution offered was feminists saying Tim Waltz was a role model men need, 100% agree but 100% tone deaf that infuriated them more. 

[G650 14229]

2 minutes ago, softlynow said:

It my experience. Driven people are still driven. I see lots of clients and hear lots of stories. Purpose = you’re all right. None? 4chan for thee!

To me, and this isn't just a current young male thing, is that internally motivated people will always have a sense of purpose. One big change is the lack of ready made jobs for undereducated and unmotivated people have made quite a few rudderless

[jimmyjazz 45877]

8 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally. 

WTF, dude?  You just got the rare neg rep.  Shut the fuck up and stop trolling this thread.

[Frank Drebin 5654]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Poor Johnny Sack, the liberal women hate his neanderthal ass.   You are too stupid to realize that the core of your premise is the dumb incel boys need to avoid women who are smarter than they are.    

The smarter women have already taken care of that Johnny

Sorry.  My wife is both very smart and a smoke show.

You're probably single or married to an ugly beast,.

And I would never get involved with a liberal woman.  Unattractive.  Annoying.  Too much mental illness risk.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

8 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally.  Young males are better off avoiding them. Look at single women.  They are overwhelmingly liberal and were the misfit type in high school and college.  Married women are not.  They lean GOP and were more the sorority type in college.

Most men don't give a shit if their wives are successful professionals.  Most value a host of other things before their mate's earning potential. Plenty of attractive and conservative women.  Those are the ones who get married and are happy with life.  Many could be very successful professionals -- have my friends' wives (and mine) have MDs, MBAs, or JDs.  But most give that up once they have kids.  That's what it's like in my social circle.  Maybe 10% of the wives keep their careers as it is too difficult to balance with raising kids.  And my friends and I make enough where we don't need dual incomes.

I think young males seeking mates and liberal professionally successful women don't want each other equally.

[G650 14229]

Do kids not go to parties anymore?

[David Dennison 18837]

Ohhhhhhhh, it's Johnny Sack.

That explains a lot.

[G650 14229]

Also for fucks sake quit engaging with that moron

[Chuckie Finster 22692]

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally.  Young males are better off avoiding them. Look at single women.  They are overwhelmingly liberal and were the misfit type in high school and college.  Married women are not.  They lean GOP and were more the sorority type in college.

Jesus Christ, we are trying to have a sincere fucking conversation here and get bullshit like this thrown into the mix.

[Vegas64 673]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

Do kids not go to parties anymore?

Not the nerds!

[linux 1660]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Exactly JD Vance is the play as well, I don't want to agree with the turd above, but women voted for JD Vance as well, a supposed creep, they still went 45% for them... If liberal women hate men due to feminism, and conservative women love evil strong men, what direction do you think young men are headed? those that get laid are gymbros that hate weakness (Joe Rogans) those that don't get laid turn into incels.

[Frank Drebin 5654]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

Jesus Christ, we are trying to have a sincere fucking conversation here and get bullshit like this thrown into the mix.

Yeah.  The conversation is shitting on young conservative males is okay.  But don't shit on liberal females.  Fuck off.

[G650 14229]

1 minute ago, linux said:

, what direction do you think young men are headed? those that get laid are gymbros that hate weakness (Joe Rogans) those that don't get laid turn into incels

The ones that are cool are the ones that get laid. Being a gym bro has nothing to do with it. Talking shit rules every time

[Incredulity 11643]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

Do kids not go to parties anymore?

Evidence I have seen with oldest just starting high school and nieces and nephews mixed through out high school and college is that weekend house parties are not very common.

I'm guessing social media(parents monitoring) and ubiquitous internet camera technology have hampered that significantly

[Chuckie Finster 22692]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

Yeah.  The conversation is shitting on young conservative males is okay.  But don't shit on liberal females.  Fuck off.

The vast majority of this thread is legitimate discussion as to why the Democratic party has alienated young men, i.e. the exact same thing you guys have been screaming for a while.  But instead of contributing, you feel the need to say batshit like "liberal women are unattractive and annoying and probably not married."  Just fucking bullshit that has no purpose other than trolling.

[G650 14229]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Evidence I have seen with oldest just starting high school and nieces and nephews mixed through out high school and college is that weekend house parties are not very common.

I'm guessing social media(parents monitoring) and ubiquitous internet camera technology have hampered that significantly

Fuck, what a buzzkill

[mchookem 16318]

so how come every other historically marginalized group is supposed to take responsibility for their own life direction and pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get their own house in order...but poor white young men are just not being giving sufficient opportunity and support? by mean ladies and MCU movies apparently?

[Fondren & Main 6698]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Evidence I have seen with oldest just starting high school and nieces and nephews mixed through out high school and college is that weekend house parties are not very common.

I'm guessing social media(parents monitoring) and ubiquitous internet camera technology have hampered that significantly

Growing up with alcoholic parents can be a major turnoff for some.  My sister and cousin are completely opposite on the political spectrum, but neither drink alcohol due to that very situation growing up.

[linux 1660]

Just now, Incredulity said:

Evidence I have seen with oldest just starting high school and nieces and nephews mixed through out high school and college is that weekend house parties are not very common.

I'm guessing social media(parents monitoring) and ubiquitous internet camera technology have hampered that significantly

Exactly lack of third spaces are murdering social interaction, the sanest step to be taken is to force the genders to mingle school is not enough have parties, hangouts, hikes anything to get the genders meeting and dating the old school way, dating apps were a gargantuan mistake only 10% women and they pick men only on looks never ever ever on personality. That leads to 0 swipes and a daily humiliation ritual

[bad_teammate 13185]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

so how come every other historically marginalized group is supposed to take responsibility for their own life direction and pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get their own house in order...but poor white young men are just not being giving sufficient opportunity and support?

Maybe if we do disingenuous and illogical outrage like this even harder Donald Trump #2 won't win 2 out of the next 3 elections.

[linux 1660]

5 minutes ago, mchookem said:

so how come every other historically marginalized group is supposed to take responsibility for their own life direction and pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get their own house in order...but poor white young men are just not being giving sufficient opportunity and support? by mean ladies and MCU movies apparently?

Because they are a huge plurality of sorts, white young men are the future of the country, and even if you exclude elections they are a powder keg, they are the foot soliders if shit hits the fan.

I long ago aged out, I am not them, and I am begging people to dedicate significant resources to them because it is dark in there 4chan loving Jokers by the millions.

Edited November 6 by linux

[SimonBolivar 10957]

11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Evidence I have seen with oldest just starting high school and nieces and nephews mixed through out high school and college is that weekend house parties are not very common.

I'm guessing social media(parents monitoring) and ubiquitous internet camera technology have hampered that significantly

Is it really college if you aren't raging on somebody's roof on a Thursday with 50 other people because there was no room in the house?

[mchookem 16318]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Maybe if we do disingenuous and illogical outrage like this even harder Donald Trump #2 won't win 2 out of the next 3 elections.

i mean i think that's pretty much a given, this country's spots have clarified and it is who we are. Brisket was right along. i'm just perplexed how the maga movement's rise and now overwhelming victories have somehow morphed into 'white boys have been so mistreated'. like...they won. ok.

 

ETA: the MCU and mean ladies remark was a poke at "the deacon" using those specific examples.

Edited November 6 by mchookem
edited again to add quotes bc Jesus thinks Sack is a cunt

[linux 1660]

We can't have feminists giving opinions either because they are so god damn tone deaf Gen X had Hugh Heffner as a male role model, a first wave feminist man, and they still destroyed him before he died. Whatever imperfect man he was he was better than Andrew fucking Tate. Hoisting Tim Waltz was such a god damn tone deaf shit.

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

10 minutes ago, linux said:

Because they are a huge plurality of sorts, white young men are the future of the country, and even if you exclude elections they are a powder keg, they are the foot soliders if shit hits the fan.

I long ago aged out, I am not them, and I am begging people to dedicate significant resources to them because it is dark in there 4chan loving Jokers by the millions.

Fuck 'em.  They can all go to hell.  I hope their lives continue to be a sexless shit-show.  What a bunch of pussies. 

[DanTheHorn 4913]

32 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It goes beyond not playing well with gen z.  They fucking loathe it.

How young black man feels about old white Democrats this AM:

You know there is a thread for this stuff or are you just looking to fit the stereotype.