What Went Wrong With Young Men

[tx 3 putt 75791]

 

 

[linux 1532]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

Exactly 45% will never budge, we hit that limit already.

[Incredulity 11271]

33 minutes ago, linux said:

Who could have forseen that Biden making a dumb identity politics promise in the 2020 primary would bite us in the ass an election later

[linux 1532]

An election later? in 2020 maybe, 2028 ok, but not in fucking 2024.

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

 

Edited 3 hours ago by linux

[Incredulity 11271]

1 minute ago, linux said:

An election later?

Point conceded 

[UpperWestside 6065]

7 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

 I take it she is a Sun Devil? My money is currently being handed to that school for my masters. I might want to see what they are teaching undergrads with a response like that.

Edited 3 hours ago by UpperWestside

[Gil Bang 25815]

5 hours ago, Incredulity said:

none of what you said is is related to my point.  My point was immediate and continuous access to porn showing sexual encounters that don't remotely represent sex people actually have put incredible stress on young men trying to figure out what the fuck they are supposed to be doing.   The VHS tapes commonly available in my youth MAYBE showed a threesome or anal sex...and you saw that maybe for a total of few hours in your entire adolescence.   Genie is out of the bottle and I don't know how it can be fixed, but I don't believe its healthy to repeatedly watch a lot of what is table stakes in porn today.

You are so correct.  10-15 years ago, I had a conversation with a 20 something woman that I had gotten close to, in a "big brother" type of way.  We shared a few drinks, and she was telling me that "these" (those) days, guys are expecting to jizz on her face on the second date, and put it in her ass on the 3rd.    That's 100% on porn.  40 fucking years ago, jizzing on a woman's face wasn't on my radar at all. 

3 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally.  Young males are better off avoiding them. Look at single women.  They are overwhelmingly liberal and were the misfit type in high school and college.  Married women are not.  They lean GOP and were more the sorority type in college.

Most men don't give a shit if their wives are successful professionals.  Most value a host of other things before their mate's earning potential. Plenty of attractive and conservative women.  Those are the ones who get married and are happy with life.  Many could be very successful professionals -- have my friends' wives (and mine) have MDs, MBAs, or JDs.  But most give that up once they have kids.  That's what it's like in my social circle.  Maybe 10% of the wives keep their careers as it is too difficult to balance with raising kids.  And my friends and I make enough where we don't need dual incomes.

I think young males seeking mates and liberal professionally successful women don't want each other equally.

You remain such a cunt.  

And asshole, you have a "dual income".  The money you make, and your fucking trust fund that somebody else made. 

50 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I'm not sure calling young men stupid incels is going to help get votes.

If the fucking shoe fits. 

[CTC2 2692]

25 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

Perfectly reasonable for someone who gets their news from social media. 

[Pancho 43915]

Hasan piker is one of the few left-wing streamers/youtubers who is very successful. He has been sounding the alarm that young men (from an early age) are constantly flooded with radical right wing propaganda in every digital space they spend time with. The radical right has a huge grip on males when it comes to online spaces.

Part of the dems problem is a.) everything above but b.) dems really have no online personalities in all of those spaces similar to the radical right.

[tx 3 putt 75791]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Hasan piker is one of the few left-wing streamers/youtubers who is very successful. He has been sounding the alarm that young men (from an early age) are constantly flooded with radical right wing propaganda in every digital space they spend time with. The radical right has a huge grip on males when it comes to online spaces.

Part of the dems problem is a.) everything above but b.) dems really have no online personalities in all of those spaces similar to the radical right.

 

tiktok has some great commentary today on this and the latino trump vote 

[Frank Drebin 5455]

22 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

You are so correct.  10-15 years ago, I had a conversation with a 20 something woman that I had gotten close to, in a "big brother" type of way.  We shared a few drinks, and she was telling me that "these" (those) days, guys are expecting to jizz on her face on the second date, and put it in her ass on the 3rd.    That's 100% on porn.  40 fucking years ago, jizzing on a woman's face wasn't on my radar at all. 

You remain such a cunt.  

And asshole, you have a "dual income".  The money you make, and your fucking trust fund that somebody else made. 

If the fucking shoe fits. 

Sorry to disappoint you.  No trust fund. Have not inherited anything either.  Making money ain’t that hard.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26111]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Haven’t read the entire thread…

- A lot of guys 18-35 have been shut out of dating (straights) women because women over the last few decades have realized they don’t have to be in abusive or trad wife type of relationships. This has made these bros upset at the system. People like kirk, tate, etc. feed into this and let them know that coming along with them, in combination of electing someone like trump, the “old way” can come back.

- gen z (males and females) are—not smart. They have no literacy skills and they fall for scams at the same rate as boomers. 

- as disgusting and racist as he is, Kirk’s tpusa shit they did on college campuses actually worked with those men/groups

 

It’s weird—this election doesn’t make me angry. It makes me want to get back in the classroom and out of administration, though. When I taught college, students would open up to me and some of this shit guys have bottled up is just disturbing. (The men in my classes were nearly always failing so asking “hey what’s up why aren’t you doing better in my class” usually brought on more and more conversation). So I can see why they feel everything is against them. I think the radical right gets them in through the bro-nature of it and then slowly works on the indoctrination so after a while, some of the vile shit that is being said, those guys don’t think it’s that bad and consider it just the next, reasonable step. 

You’re a good man, Pancho

[956 Worldwide 34137]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

And the posters in here, largely, don't realize they're doing the exact same thing: "These stupid pussies don't slide down banisters on the wet panties of last night's conquests playing the 'Sultans of Swing' solo like I did when I was in high school!"

What percentage of young men in school are actually cool? How many of them have the confidence needed to live this way? How many of them genuinely just want to live a simple life of good values (whatever that might mean to them), humility, and responsibility? How many of them want to be useful and independent and see no path towards it?

Trumpworld is looking at them saying, "You're a dumb pussy right now, but that can change. Get in, loser, we're saving America and you're an important part of that!"

What are we saying to them? What's our offer? "You're a dumb pussy right now, but if you abase yourself enough you'll learn that hating yourself openly and shitting on yourself and those like you has its own rewards if you do it for clout. You get to feel like One of the Good Ones!"

I guess it's kind of working? The gap is closing a tiny bit?

Yes, pandering is an extremely effective messaging technique. It really does work to tell angry young men that none of their problems are their fault and that by joining with you they can get everything they want and take revenge on the women that won’t give them Just One Sex. 
 

But as you’ve hit on, you CAN’T counter-message that.  And the histrionics here about what the Dems actually tell young men is fairly cuckoo.  The counter-message of nominating an ex-football coach infantryman with a nice traditional family to partner with a black woman to work together for all Americans didn’t work.  He got called a beta cuck because he dared to demonstrate that men don’t have to be like this.

Young men chose the panderer because he promised them that none of their problems are their fault and that they have no responsibilities to fix them, that will all be done by someone else, with other people’s resources.  Which actually may be the common thread uniting the far left and far right. 

[956 Worldwide 34137]

Also, I need to point out that all this deep analysis about how schools and government and corporations and women and society is stacked against young men and working to against them—- you’ve basically reinvented systemic racism and CRT from first principles except for men.  
 

And that’s not to dismiss some super real and acute ways we fail boys. And men. But also women. And gay people. And minorities.  So maybe start with some fucking empathy and an attitude of helping yourself and each other. 

[TwiceHorn 30908]

10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Yes, pandering is an extremely effective messaging technique. It really does work to tell angry young men that none of their problems are their fault and that by joining with you they can get everything they want and take revenge on the women that won’t give them Just One Sex. 
 

But as you’ve hit on, you CAN’T counter-message that.  And the histrionics here about what the Dems actually tell young men is fairly cuckoo.  The counter-message of nominating an ex-football coach infantryman with a nice traditional family to partner with a black woman to work together for all Americans didn’t work.  He got called a beta cuck because he dared to demonstrate that men don’t have to be like this.

Young men chose the panderer because he promised them that none of their problems are their fault and that they have no responsibilities to fix them, that will all be done by someone else, with other people’s resources.  Which actually may be the common thread uniting the far left and far right. 

Self-improvement is really hard work.  And I'm not talking about improving your situation, that can vary.

But actually working on yourself to fix your flaws, which may be self-inflicted or not, is really tough.  It's a hard sell.  That's why alcoholics tend to have to hit rock bottom before they'll actually do anything difficult.

[chainsaw 9764]

41 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Hasan piker is one of the few left-wing streamers/youtubers who is very successful. He has been sounding the alarm that young men (from an early age) are constantly flooded with radical right wing propaganda in every digital space they spend time with. The radical right has a huge grip on males when it comes to online spaces.

Part of the dems problem is a.) everything above but b.) dems really have no online personalities in all of those spaces similar to the radical right.

Dems (the party leaders) once again took a previously-reliable voting bloc for granted.

[linux 1532]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Dems (the party leaders) once again took a previously-reliable voting bloc for granted.

The worst part is that they neted no new women, want to be the party of women? fine they are the majority you CAN win, but the fuck did you not know only 45% will always vote for Donny? how can you be so god damn detached from reality? I am unbelievably stunned by Kamala being blindsided, not even Hillary was that blindsided, she knew shit was up in the blue wall states on election day. Not Kamala she was so damn happy and confident ARGGHHH

[bad_teammate 13044]

15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also, I need to point out that all this deep analysis about how schools and government and corporations and women and society is stacked against young men and working to against them—- you’ve basically reinvented systemic racism and CRT from first principles except for men.  

And that’s not to dismiss some super real and acute ways we fail boys. And men. But also women. And gay people. And minorities.  So maybe start with some fucking empathy and an attitude of helping yourself and each other. 

Notice how you hedged towards admitting that there are real problems that young men have but absolutely could not stop yourself from pushing it aside as quickly as you could and ending it with the typical chiding and scolding of those same young men?

Be sensitive and vulnerable and open but also stop being a pussy and help others but don't expect others to help you and if you need help you're a pussy and be nice to others who need help and yeah maybe you have a problem but look at all those other people who have it worse.

[chainsaw 9764]

Just now, linux said:

blindsided

This is the part I still am not seeing a coherent explanation for. There is just no way an outcome like this is possible without a bunch of dead canaries in coalmines. They could not have been as confident as they were ("blindsided") unless they were ignoring obvious signs.

But, what would those obvious signs have been? A bunch of flags and yard signs? Nope. Yuge crowds? None. What about enthusiasm and approval ratings? Not there, either.

It hasn't been adding up for me.

[Pancho 43915]

19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also, I need to point out that all this deep analysis about how schools and government and corporations and women and society is stacked against young men and working to against them—- you’ve basically reinvented systemic racism and CRT from first principles except for men.  
 

I didn’t think this website was ready for this type of conversation so I didn’t bring it up. Props 

[chainsaw 9764]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Notice how you hedged towards admitting that there are real problems that young men have but absolutely could not stop yourself from pushing it aside as quickly as you could and ending it with the typical chiding and scolding of those same young men?

Be sensitive and vulnerable and open but also stop being a pussy and help others but don't expect others to help you and if you need help you're a pussy and be nice to others who need help and yeah maybe you have a problem but look at all those other people who have it worse.

reading comprehension wasn't your strong suit, was it?

[SydneyCarton 47743]

11 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Dems (the party leaders) once again took a previously-reliable voting bloc for granted.

Wait, in less than 24 hours we’ve gone from young men being an unreliable voting block to they were an always reliable voting block that democrats disenfranchised? Make that make sense please. 

[linux 1532]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

This is the part I still am not seeing a coherent explanation for. There is just no way an outcome like this is possible without a bunch of dead canaries in coalmines. They could not have been as confident as they were ("blindsided") unless they were ignoring obvious signs.

But, what would those obvious signs have been? A bunch of flags and yard signs? Nope. Yuge crowds? None. What about enthusiasm and approval ratings? Not there, either.

It hasn't been adding up for me.

Pretending that they could win with the same turnout as last time, 7.8 million voted in PA twice already they should have always been aiming for 8, 8.3

[chainsaw 9764]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Wait, in less than 24 hours we’ve gone from young men being an unreliable voting block to they were an always reliable voting block that democrats disenfranchised? Make that make sense please. 

The Gen Z who voted in previous elections used to be reliably Democratic. They are no longer reliably Democratic.

This is true in the low-turnout counties of South Texas, and it's becoming true of Gen Z.

You can no longer see a long line of voters on a college campus and assume that's a good thing for the Dems. Because they're less reliably Democratic.

[JBJ 3621]

58 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Hasan piker is one of the few left-wing streamers/youtubers who is very successful. He has been sounding the alarm that young men (from an early age) are constantly flooded with radical right wing propaganda in every digital space they spend time with. The radical right has a huge grip on males when it comes to online spaces.

Part of the dems problem is a.) everything above but b.) dems really have no online personalities in all of those spaces similar to the radical right.

Bear in mind that Piker thinks if you believe in private property that you are alt-right.

[troph 24321]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Self-improvement is really hard work.  And I'm not talking about improving your situation, that can vary.

But actually working on yourself to fix your flaws, which may be self-inflicted or not, is really tough.  It's a hard sell.  That's why alcoholics tend to have to hit rock bottom before they'll actually do anything difficult.

I'm doing some trauma therapy and its exhausting, 2 hours every saturday to detrigger some shit that went to 11 after a bad round of covid, straight up PTSD shit around sleep that bleeds over from other unresolved shit. I hate going. I do the work but it's exhausting. I wish I could blame someone else and it magically got better. Doesn't work that way. never has, never will.

[Da Fino 2691]

2 hours ago, Walser said:

No one believes you have a hot wife.

I’ve god bad news for you. It’s a travesty. 

[troph 24321]

40 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Yes, pandering is an extremely effective messaging technique. It really does work to tell angry young men that none of their problems are their fault and that by joining with you they can get everything they want and take revenge on the women that won’t give them Just One Sex. 
 

But as you’ve hit on, you CAN’T counter-message that.  And the histrionics here about what the Dems actually tell young men is fairly cuckoo.  The counter-message of nominating an ex-football coach infantryman with a nice traditional family to partner with a black woman to work together for all Americans didn’t work.  He got called a beta cuck because he dared to demonstrate that men don’t have to be like this.

Young men chose the panderer because he promised them that none of their problems are their fault and that they have no responsibilities to fix them, that will all be done by someone else, with other people’s resources.  Which actually may be the common thread uniting the far left and far right. 

 

30 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also, I need to point out that all this deep analysis about how schools and government and corporations and women and society is stacked against young men and working to against them—- you’ve basically reinvented systemic racism and CRT from first principles except for men.  
 

And that’s not to dismiss some super real and acute ways we fail boys. And men. But also women. And gay people. And minorities.  So maybe start with some fucking empathy and an attitude of helping yourself and each other. 

these are both such high quality posts. man you're a solid, solid fucking dude. thank you.

[Incredulity 11271]

8 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

This is the part I still am not seeing a coherent explanation for. There is just no way an outcome like this is possible without a bunch of dead canaries in coalmines. They could not have been as confident as they were ("blindsided") unless they were ignoring obvious signs.

But, what would those obvious signs have been? A bunch of flags and yard signs? Nope. Yuge crowds? None. What about enthusiasm and approval ratings? Not there, either.

It hasn't been adding up for me.

The CR for the last two years is a perfect representation of the siloing that facilitates the surprise.  Yall have ran off with neg bombing anyone who didn’t regurgitate the accepted lines.  Same exact thing on every MSM news desk.  No one in any of those organizations would ever associate with anyone who would vote for Trump, so what chance would you have to understand or predict it?

 

[chainsaw 9764]

Just now, Incredulity said:

The CR for the last two years is a perfect representation of the siloing that facilitates the surprise.  Yall have ran off with neg bombing anyone who didn’t regurgitate the accepted lines.  Same exact thing on every MSM news desk.  No one in any of those organizations would ever associate with anyone who would vote for Trump, so what chance would you have to understand or predict it?

 

You think pollsters are siloing? People who make a living by getting these things right, are doing their jobs poorly on purpose?

[Hook1997 5250]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

You are so correct.  10-15 years ago, I had a conversation with a 20 something woman that I had gotten close to, in a "big brother" type of way.  We shared a few drinks, and she was telling me that "these" (those) days, guys are expecting to jizz on her face on the second date, and put it in her ass on the 3rd.    That's 100% on porn.  40 fucking years ago, jizzing on a woman's face wasn't on my radar at all. 

You remain such a cunt.  

And asshole, you have a "dual income".  The money you make, and your fucking trust fund that somebody else made. 

If the fucking shoe fits. 

Man I miss my ex that wanted jizz on her face…. 

[Frank Drebin 5455]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The CR for the last two years is a perfect representation of the siloing that facilitates the surprise.  Yall have ran off with neg bombing anyone who didn’t regurgitate the accepted lines.  Same exact thing on every MSM news desk.  No one in any of those organizations would ever associate with anyone who would vote for Trump, so what chance would you have to understand or predict it?

 

Some pathetic losers have amassed something like almost 6000 negs given. 

[chainsaw 9764]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

40 fucking years ago, jizzing on a woman's face wasn't on my radar at all. 

[SydneyCarton 47743]

10 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The Gen Z who voted in previous elections used to be reliably Democratic. They are no longer reliably Democratic.

This is true in the low-turnout counties of South Texas, and it's becoming true of Gen Z.

You can no longer see a long line of voters on a college campus and assume that's a good thing for the Dems. Because they're less reliably Democratic.

Maybe. But they’re also not reliable to the polls either. 

[David Dennison 18154]

4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The CR for the last two years is a perfect representation of the siloing that facilitates the surprise.  Yall have ran off with neg bombing anyone who didn’t regurgitate the accepted lines.  Same exact thing on every MSM news desk.  No one in any of those organizations would ever associate with anyone who would vote for Trump, so what chance would you have to understand or predict it?

 

Because this never, ever happens in the Republican echo chamber.

I am rolling my eyes so hard right now.

[Incredulity 11271]

Just now, chainsaw said:

You think pollsters are siloing? People who make a living by getting these things right, are doing their jobs poorly on purpose?

Yes.  They all produced the same dogshit willfully to avoid being the outlier.  Polls don’t lose credibility by being wrong the exact same as everyone else.

[chainsaw 9764]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Maybe. But they’re also not reliable to the polls either. 

I agree on that, but in theory that's what GOTV is intended to counteract. Unfortunately, I think a lot of Kamala's lists of likely D voters probably made unwise assumptions based on demographics that were supposed to be +70 for Ds but ended up being +15 at best.

[JBJ 3621]

3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

You think pollsters are siloing? People who make a living by getting these things right, are doing their jobs poorly on purpose?

Without looking guess the margin of the final RCP composite and who is ahead.

[Incredulity 11271]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Because this never, ever happens in the Republican echo chamber.

I am rolling my eyes so hard right now.

It happens in any silo’d community.  Reading is fundamental and shit

[gmr548 16362]

4 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Most liberal women are both unattractive and annoying, no matter what success they might have professionally.  Young males are better off avoiding them. Look at single women.  They are overwhelmingly liberal and were the misfit type in high school and college.  Married women are not.  They lean GOP and were more the sorority type in college.

Most men don't give a shit if their wives are successful professionals.  Most value a host of other things before their mate's earning potential. Plenty of attractive and conservative women.  Those are the ones who get married and are happy with life.  Many could be very successful professionals -- have my friends' wives (and mine) have MDs, MBAs, or JDs.  But most give that up once they have kids.  That's what it's like in my social circle.  Maybe 10% of the wives keep their careers as it is too difficult to balance with raising kids.  And my friends and I make enough where we don't need dual incomes.

I think young males seeking mates and liberal professionally successful women don't want each other equally.

This is the only post I have negged of any of the texaggy crowd making the rounds in the CR and the only one I will. You almost stumbled into a point but just couldn't the resist the call to be as cunty as possible. It's hilarious to me that this old man behind a keyboard who hasn't been called "young" by anyone in decades is waxing on about young single men and women like you know shit about the real world outside your bubble.

I am actually really glad that you were born into generational wealth and your wife decided that was worth the trade off of living life with you. We both know you'd have shot up a school or a Taylor Swift concert or something by now if that wasn't the case. She's a literal life saver.

[956 Worldwide 34137]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Notice how you hedged towards admitting that there are real problems that young men have but absolutely could not stop yourself from pushing it aside as quickly as you could and ending it with the typical chiding and scolding of those same young men?

Be sensitive and vulnerable and open but also stop being a pussy and help others but don't expect others to help you and if you need help you're a pussy and be nice to others who need help and yeah maybe you have a problem but look at all those other people who have it worse.

Man, you are not reading me at all.  Like most people on this website, I am a man myself.  
 

I actually really dislike grievance politics no matter where it’s coming from, there is a strong tendency on the far left and the…well, just the ordinary right… to think that we can solve things if we just keep expanding the circle of the aggrieved.  Sorry, it doesn’t work that way, we can’t just keep shoveling shit into bigger piles on fewer plates. That isn’t an answer. 
 

Part of growing up is realizing that the system isn’t fair.  And then realizing that the system is even less fair to other people.  And yeah, young men do need to grow up and realize that their problems are not unique or specially worse.  And that the way to fix them is to try and help yourself and others. Not to make sure others have it shittier than you do. 
 

I do realize that doesn’t message test well. Part of what (used to) be an (unrealized) ideal of American masculinity is telling yourself hard truths that aren’t popular. I prefer telling young men that, as opposed to coddling their grievances to no real end. Call me a reactionary, I guess. 

[CooterBrown 17804]

Read earlier that there were Russian propaganda reels on TikTok about Kamala bringing back the draft to support Ukraine and that influenced some young dudes. Russia did actually win the Cold War after all.

[Pato del Muerto 52175]

23 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Read earlier that there were Russian propaganda reels on TikTok about Kamala bringing back the draft to support Ukraine and that influenced some young dudes. Russia did actually win the Cold War after all.

Well having actual elections with actual votes counted and respected is a bit of a weakness for us that doesn’t have a Russian corollary that we can exploit in return. 

Edited 9 minutes ago by Pato del Muerto