Living Abroad / Dual Citizenship

[Chult86 335]

This may seem like reactionary hyperbole, but my wife and I are serious about looking elsewhere for us and our son to live. I have a fantastic career, with a CEO (D) that is great to work for. However, southwest Florida is not…

The best school system/curriculum, super touristy and cost of living is sky high, predominantly republican, and other annoyances. Completely ignoring the fact that abortion didn’t pass (yes I understand our completely fucked up 60% rule for these measures in FL)

Both of us would be terrible teachers, so homeschooling is out of the question. Also, we both heavily believe in the socialization benefits that come from attending public school. However, we have zero desire for him to be a product of this school system.

I could go on and on, but ultimately after this election we’ve realized that the good ol US of A isn’t what it once was. Seeing GenZ move towards the right makes us, as Millenials, now feel like outcasts in our own country. The last gasp of the Baby Boomers… convincing GenZ to think like them. We’ve lost hope that the ship can be course corrected.

There are numerous other countries around the world offering comparable or better standard of living, social benefits, and healthcare, that are more aligned with our beliefs. We aren’t that concerned with climate either (she grew up in the Midwest and now FL, while I was born and raised in La Porte/Kemah area, before spending decent chunks of time in New England and now FL).

It’s obviously a potentially completely life altering move for us, but one we feel is necessary for our son to grow up in a place better than where we are both currently and headed to. We have enough equity in our assets to be able to walk away from all debt with $100,000 in liquid assets to relocate with. I would be able to maintain employment for at least the short term. 
 

What I’m hoping surly can help with, is which of these countries are actually feasible? Has anyone done this before?

[Incredulity 11,561]

[Chult86 335]

You say that, but this is different than before. We know exactly their plan, the guardrails from our institutions in 2016 are gone, and the adults have left the room.

I’m a white male who made an uninformed vote for the man in 2016, but that doesn’t mean I can’t read the room.

[InkaUtexas 25,529]

I would tell you but I don't want all you assholes to end up where I am going.

[mchookem 16,231]

i just can't help thinking nobody but Mexico or other LA countries are even going to want American expats anymore. they think we're all like Sack and Icono, and at this point we might as well be. 

it's like when people here ask where we're from...i don't even say Texas, i say Austin which gets a much better response. 

[Frank Drebin 5,617]

Just now, mchookem said:

i just can't help thinking nobody but Mexico or other LA countries are even going to want American expats anymore. they think we're all like Sack and Icono, and at this point we might as well be. 

it's like when people here ask where we're from...i don't even say Texas, i say Austin which gets a much better response. 

Yes.  Sorry I ruined y’all’s exit plan. My bad.  

[Horn Dogg 3,808]

17 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

This may seem like reactionary hyperbole, but my wife and I are serious about looking elsewhere for us and our son to live. I have a fantastic career, with a CEO (D) that is great to work for. However, southwest Florida is not…

The best school system/curriculum, super touristy and cost of living is sky high, predominantly republican, and other annoyances. Completely ignoring the fact that abortion didn’t pass (yes I understand our completely fucked up 60% rule for these measures in FL)

Both of us would be terrible teachers, so homeschooling is out of the question. Also, we both heavily believe in the socialization benefits that come from attending public school. However, we have zero desire for him to be a product of this school system.

I could go on and on, but ultimately after this election we’ve realized that the good ol US of A isn’t what it once was. Seeing GenZ move towards the right makes us, as Millenials, now feel like outcasts in our own country. The last gasp of the Baby Boomers… convincing GenZ to think like them. We’ve lost hope that the ship can be course corrected.

There are numerous other countries around the world offering comparable or better standard of living, social benefits, and healthcare, that are more aligned with our beliefs. We aren’t that concerned with climate either (she grew up in the Midwest and now FL, while I was born and raised in La Porte/Kemah area, before spending decent chunks of time in New England and now FL).

It’s obviously a potentially completely life altering move for us, but one we feel is necessary for our son to grow up in a place better than where we are both currently and headed to. We have enough equity in our assets to be able to walk away from all debt with $100,000 in liquid assets to relocate with. I would be able to maintain employment for at least the short term. 
 

What I’m hoping surly can help with, is which of these countries are actually feasible? Has anyone done this before?

Just move to the West Coast, you’ll be fine.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,094]

13 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

This may seem like reactionary hyperbole, but my wife and I are serious about looking elsewhere for us and our son to live. I have a fantastic career, with a CEO (D) that is great to work for. However, southwest Florida is not…

The best school system/curriculum, super touristy and cost of living is sky high, predominantly republican, and other annoyances. Completely ignoring the fact that abortion didn’t pass (yes I understand our completely fucked up 60% rule for these measures in FL)

Both of us would be terrible teachers, so homeschooling is out of the question. Also, we both heavily believe in the socialization benefits that come from attending public school. However, we have zero desire for him to be a product of this school system.

I could go on and on, but ultimately after this election we’ve realized that the good ol US of A isn’t what it once was. Seeing GenZ move towards the right makes us, as Millenials, now feel like outcasts in our own country. The last gasp of the Baby Boomers… convincing GenZ to think like them. We’ve lost hope that the ship can be course corrected.

There are numerous other countries around the world offering comparable or better standard of living, social benefits, and healthcare, that are more aligned with our beliefs. We aren’t that concerned with climate either (she grew up in the Midwest and now FL, while I was born and raised in La Porte/Kemah area, before spending decent chunks of time in New England and now FL).

It’s obviously a potentially completely life altering move for us, but one we feel is necessary for our son to grow up in a place better than where we are both currently and headed to. We have enough equity in our assets to be able to walk away from all debt with $100,000 in liquid assets to relocate with. I would be able to maintain employment for at least the short term. 
 

What I’m hoping surly can help with, is which of these countries are actually feasible? Has anyone done this before?

I feel like there are portions of France, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland that would work for you. I have only begun looking at property to potentially buy a second residence outside of the US to maybe spend a couple of months a year based at, but I know France, Spain, Portugal,and Italy have some real deals on property, but it would require elbow grease. 

I know folks that have spent time in the Netherlands, and they raved about it. But I also know they are also having a property crisis.

Denmark might be a good one, but I am not sure what the requirements are to move there, even though I have visited a lot. Prior to last night, I would say look at Eastern Europe (Latvia, Estonia), but with Trump in the WH and Putin empowered, I am scared for those countries.

[SimonBolivar 10,937]

Uruguay is our plan currently, but LA is always so fickle politically and Yanqui feelings are subject to change.

 

That plan isn't based on politics in the US but rather getting more out of life than living in one place forever.

[InkaUtexas 25,529]

2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Uruguay is our plan currently, but LA is always so fickle politically and Yanqui feelings are subject to change.

 

That plan isn't based on politics in the US but rather getting more out of life than living in one place forever.

User name fulfilling lost destiny? Yeah, that works out. San Martin out front should have told ya.

[mchookem 16,231]

 

5 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Yes.  Sorry I ruined y’all’s exit plan. My bad.  

well i'm one of the lucky ones, my exit worked great. my new state has educated voters who generally believe in common good, taking care of people and the environment, and has leaders that aren't criminals and cretins.  Boebert notwithstanding of course, but even she had to do some fast maneuvering to stay in office. 

 

anyways don't you have some Bible verse to study or something. 

[wood 11,181]

5 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i just can't help thinking nobody but Mexico or other LA countries are even going to want American expats anymore. they think we're all like Sack and Icono, and at this point we might as well be. 

it's like when people here ask where we're from...i don't even say Texas, i say Austin which gets a much better response. 

Yeah I was out running some errands today and I was pretty sure almost anyone who saw me figured 'that old white guy is a typical Trumper'. FML. I used to be proud of Texas and made sure my boys were born here so they could be native Texans. I was merely a naturalized one. Yeah, I'm not proud of it anymore.  Fuck this shit.

[Incredulity 11,561]

2 minutes ago, wood said:

and I was pretty sure almost anyone who saw me figured 'that old white guy is a typical Trumper'. FML

Touch grass

[wood 11,181]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Touch grass

What?

[David Dennison 18,661]

Y'all be some give up mofos.

[Incredulity 11,561]

Just now, wood said:

What?

Take a breath, literally no one was watching you and judging you.  Touch grass, live in reality.

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Y'all be some give up mofos.

They aren’t going anywhere. Same old pants pissing performance art.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,094]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Y'all be some give up mofos.

I think those with kids have different math to solve for than those of us without. If I had children, I would GTFO as well. And I have a lot of colleagues that are looking to do the same. But I have chosen to stay and be part of the resistance. 

[miguelito 11,220]

7 minutes ago, mchookem said:

Boebert notwithstanding of course, but even she had to do some fast maneuvering to stay in office. 

Is that what you call it?

[InkaUtexas 25,529]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think those with kids have different math to solve for than those of us without. If I had children, I would GTFO as well. And I have a lot of colleagues that are looking to do the same. But I have chosen to stay and be part of the resistance. 

Nah, I want to picture you like this.

 

[Incredulity 11,561]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

Nah, I want to picture you like this.

 

[UpperWestside 6,136]

30 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I can see how this seems reactionary to ask this question less than 24 hours after the election, but it’s important for folks to do what they believe is best for their kids and family. My choice to leave the mainland was made long before this election and it was not made on who would or would not win, but on the overall direction my life is going. There are better places to raise kids where they can learn more about the world around them. If this man finds that for his family that’s cool. For those who are content to stay here and enjoy life that’s fine too. 

[wood 11,181]

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Take a breath, literally no one was watching you and judging you.  Touch grass, live in reality.

Ah, ok. Thanks Kreskin.

[UpperWestside 6,136]

23 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i just can't help thinking nobody but Mexico or other LA countries are even going to want American expats anymore. they think we're all like Sack and Icono, and at this point we might as well be. 

it's like when people here ask where we're from...i don't even say Texas, i say Austin which gets a much better response. 

I say Austin as well. Europeans, which are a sizeable part of the people I get where I work, are much more amenable to hearing Austin than Texas out of me. I was proud to be from there growing up, but that went out the window years ago. 

[wood 11,181]

13 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think those with kids have different math to solve for than those of us without. If I had children, I would GTFO as well. And I have a lot of colleagues that are looking to do the same. But I have chosen to stay and be part of the resistance. 

I think I'm with you. I'll be part of your resistance. Besides ...

I mean, for years we've talked about moving to Portugal, Spain, Italy, Mexico, Costa Rica, etc, but it seems like kind of a huge undertaking at this point in our lives. I'm def not opposed to moving from this state though.

Edited November 7 by wood

[squib 1,120]

Remember when shit started popping off in Boston on King Street, and George and Martha ran off to Ecuador to escape the turmoil? Yea, me neither. Stay and be part of the solution. Get your mug on some currency in 150 years. It is now time for all good men....ahh nevermind, I just got a Zillow notification about some fly beachside pad in Dominical. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,094]

1 minute ago, wood said:

I think I'm with you. I'll be part of your resistance. Besides ...

I mean, we've talked about moving to Europe, etc, but it seems like kind of a huge undertaking at this point in our lives. I'm def not opposed to moving from this state though.

I would tell you to move to NYC, but I know it is not everyone's cup of tea (and it is expensive).

Dutchess and Ulster County, which are along the Hudson (bout 2 hour train ride north) seem like good places.  CT is also nice (I know a lot of folks in Westport).

[wood 11,181]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I would tell you to move to NYC, but I know it is not everyone's cup of tea (and it is expensive).

Dutchess and Ulster County, which are along the Hudson (bout 2 hour train ride north) seem like good places.  CT is also nice (I know a lot of folks in Westport).

Love NY, but I could never afford the city. Maybe out in the area you mentioned though ... who knows?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,094]

Just now, wood said:

Love NY, but I could never afford the city. Maybe out in the area you mentioned though ... who knows?

That area along the Hudson is home to some beautiful countryside, cool artsy towns like Hudson and Rhinebeck, good breweries, and you get 4 seasons and leaf changes, though you might not know it given it was 80 degree here today (and people say Climate Change isn't fucking real).

I actually have a colleague that bought a fixer upper up there during COVID. They rennovated and moved up there full time.  He comes down to the city for 2 days in the office each week.  I think he has an apartment here in the city that he stays in, but some people just get a hotel if they are only here one night.  I like the city too much, but the one good thing that the pandemic gave us is more flexible work arrangements.

[Zeus 5,950]

I’d say go all the way to Australia or NZ. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,717]

I can trace my lineage back to an immigrant from Switzerland. I wonder if they would take me. Maybe I could get deported back to a country I’ve never known just like a lot of dreamers are going to be. 

[Underdog 28,457]

I’m going down with the ship. I’d like to see the boy move his family out of the country. 

Edited November 7 by Underdog

[G650 14,112]

I've honestly wanted to leave for a decade and a half or so, as America and I have been steadily diverging culturally for a long time, but career and family and all have precluded it. Now, ironically, when I could probably talk the wife into it, we just sunk a shitload of money into a new house. Fml.

 

I'm still pretty sure I am going to pick up some property in northern Italy just because

[Tailgate 3,018]

10 hours ago, Chult86 said:

This may seem like reactionary hyperbole, but my wife and I are serious about looking elsewhere for us and our son to live. I have a fantastic career, with a CEO (D) that is great to work for. However, southwest Florida is not…

The best school system/curriculum, super touristy and cost of living is sky high, predominantly republican, and other annoyances. Completely ignoring the fact that abortion didn’t pass (yes I understand our completely fucked up 60% rule for these measures in FL)

Both of us would be terrible teachers, so homeschooling is out of the question. Also, we both heavily believe in the socialization benefits that come from attending public school. However, we have zero desire for him to be a product of this school system.

I could go on and on, but ultimately after this election we’ve realized that the good ol US of A isn’t what it once was. Seeing GenZ move towards the right makes us, as Millenials, now feel like outcasts in our own country. The last gasp of the Baby Boomers… convincing GenZ to think like them. We’ve lost hope that the ship can be course corrected.

There are numerous other countries around the world offering comparable or better standard of living, social benefits, and healthcare, that are more aligned with our beliefs. We aren’t that concerned with climate either (she grew up in the Midwest and now FL, while I was born and raised in La Porte/Kemah area, before spending decent chunks of time in New England and now FL).

It’s obviously a potentially completely life altering move for us, but one we feel is necessary for our son to grow up in a place better than where we are both currently and headed to. We have enough equity in our assets to be able to walk away from all debt with $100,000 in liquid assets to relocate with. I would be able to maintain employment for at least the short term. 
 

What I’m hoping surly can help with, is which of these countries are actually feasible? Has anyone done this before?

There’s obviously been interest in this for sometime. Keep running across articles on it. Here is a firm that helps with that based on investment in the country and I’m sure there are others who can help just walk you through the process of what it would take sans investment etc. Some quick online research can guide you to other sources as well:

https://www.henleyglobal.com

Edited November 7 by Tailgate

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,195]

H-town till I drown...

... or at least till I vest in my sweet pension and have my other finances in order... but that won't be for a bit so figure best bet is to weather the Turnip storm as best as possible.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,094]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I can trace my lineage back to an immigrant from Switzerland. I wonder if they would take me. Maybe I could get deported back to a country I’ve never known just like a lot of dreamers are going to be. 

I’ve done all the genealogy on my family. With my dad, we are English, French and German. French married into English, and English came over in 1705. German came over in 1710. So, not recent enough.

For my mom, we have Irish and English. Irish and English came together and English came over in 1698. My grandfather’s grandmother was either full Cherokee or half (can’t remember), so I have nothing on that side either other than my family has been in this land a fuck load longer than either DJT or JDV. 

[TexArcher 37,531]

11 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

I would tell you but I don't want all you assholes to end up where I am going.

Canadia isn't really a secret.

[BurntEyes 5,836]

So, I'm not ever going to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, and whether or not they are over reacting or reacting rationally.

New Zealand, Australia, Switzerland, Canada and well, most of what would be considered desirable countries for many aren't exactly easy to immigrate to despite what you might be told. They look for very specific skill sets and ages. They don't want older non-rich folks that won't contribute to the economy. 

There are options, but depending on money it isn't as easy or pick a place as some like to believe. 

So.. if you really want out, do some research, make a plan, and take steps forward. 

I would strongly suggest spending a minimum of 60-90 days living in that country before you do so. Just like a life partner it's unwise to move in with someone you've known for less than 3 months. Go see the skeletons in your future countries closet. Experience the weather, the politics, the music, the food, the water, the culture and the people's response to you.

There are 3 countries I could and would own property in outside the US. I can say most here would find some inhospitable for various reasons. Nope, I'm not telling you where and nope I'm not giving up my land in redneckville trumpkin Tennessee, mostly cause I love it here despite the politics.

Goodbye and good luck. 😘

Edited November 7 by BurntEyes

[aggie08 21,436]

11 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

That plan isn't based on politics in the US but rather getting more out of life than living in one place forever.

I've been kicking the tires on leaving for a few years for exactly this reason. It's a big world. I've lived in a half dozen states, but I'd like to try my hand at another country while I'm still young enough to contribute to their economy and my kids are young enough to adapt to the culture. 

Spent a month in Australia and really enjoyed it. Obviously a relatively minor cultural shift. My cousin has lived there for a few years, got his dual citizenship and might not come back. Just know that it's difficult getting your foot in the door because a company has to sponsor you and attest that your job cannot be done by a current Australian citizen.

Have other friends that relocated to Amsterdam, Germany, Canada with no complaints. Realizing I just listed off 4 places where we'd barely need to learn another language, but I'd definitely be interested in somewhere less English-adjacent.

 

 

[aggie08 21,436]

I think the hardest part of leaving the country with small children is the thought of telling their grandparents (and they have 4 sets of them...yay divorce), "Hey, you might only get to see them once every year or two."

[Deej 76,573]

No other country wants y'all. How are you going to prove you aren't a fascist Trump voter? That's how all the nice places are going to look at you. 

Edited November 7 by Deej

[ut1978 36]

I have traveled a LOT for my job often spending 5 months of the year away from the US. Always in beautiful places (N. Italy, NZ, Greece....). So I know what living away from the US entails. I could leave any time; I make decent money and of course, my stock portfolio sky-rocketed yesterday (thank you Donald Fucking Trump). However, I am pissed off an ornery enough that I plan to stay in the US (I live in CA) and watch the train wreck unfold. I will still be traveling (with somebody else paying, of course), however I WANT to be here to watch the train wreck up close and personal....all the latinos, blacks, and non-educated whites earning under 100K/year who gave us this asshole...I will laugh at your discomfort and wish even worse on you. And guess what...all the reublican elites will also be living the good life and laughing at you stupid slobs ...and you fucking deserve it. So, enjoy your miserable lives motherfuckers, worship your golden calf, and try to die quietly so the rest of us can watch the party in peace.

[Frank Drebin 5,617]

29 minutes ago, ut1978 said:

I have traveled a LOT for my job often spending 5 months of the year away from the US. Always in beautiful places (N. Italy, NZ, Greece....). So I know what living away from the US entails. I could leave any time; I make decent money and of course, my stock portfolio sky-rocketed yesterday (thank you Donald Fucking Trump). However, I am pissed off an ornery enough that I plan to stay in the US (I live in CA) and watch the train wreck unfold. I will still be traveling (with somebody else paying, of course), however I WANT to be here to watch the train wreck up close and personal....all the latinos, blacks, and non-educated whites earning under 100K/year who gave us this asshole...I will laugh at your discomfort and wish even worse on you. And guess what...all the reublican elites will also be living the good life and laughing at you stupid slobs ...and you fucking deserve it. So, enjoy your miserable lives motherfuckers, worship your golden calf, and try to die quietly so the rest of us can watch the party in peace.

Had they just elected Kamala, all their dreams would have come true.  Too bad they were so dumb.

[G650 14,112]

47 minutes ago, Deej said:

No other country wants y'all. How are you going to prove you aren't a fascist Trump voter? That's how all the nice places are going to look at you. 

Only takes money homie.

[SimonBolivar 10,937]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Spent a month in Australia and really enjoyed it. Obviously a relatively minor cultural shift. My cousin has lived there for a few years, got his dual citizenship and might not come back. Just know that it's difficult getting your foot in the door because a company has to sponsor you and attest that your job cannot be done by a current Australian citizen.

The overnight quiz on ABC is a must for me every morning getting ready for work here in Texas.

[Dutchrudder 11,117]

How much do hobbit holes in NZ go for? They sound cozy and wonderful, I could get behind that idea.

[cabowabo 4,453]

God damn..... y'all are insufferable.

[Frank Drebin 5,617]

[Chult86 335]

I wonder if some of the residents of El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. are also this indignant to their fellow countrymen who are looking at leaving to provide a better, more stable upbringing for their kids and pack up to head to the United States.

I don't want my son growing up where this sort of discourse and commentary from a "leader" is acceptable. This isn't about "winning" as you seem to think, but about me making a choice on where I think my family, and future generations, will have the best chance of leaving a happy, contributory life.

[Frank Drebin 5,617]

Just now, Chult86 said:

I wonder if some of the residents of El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. are also this indignant to their fellow countrymen who are looking at leaving to provide a better, more stable upbringing for their kids and pack up to head to the United States.

I don't want my son growing up where this sort of discourse and commentary from a "leader" is acceptable. This isn't about "winning" as you seem to think, but about me making a choice on where I think my family, and future generations, will have the best chance of leaving a happy, contributory life.

Bet you were cool with Democrat leaders calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist though.  Or am I wrong?

[aggie08 21,436]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

Bet you were cool with Democrat leaders calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist though.  Or am I wrong?

JD Vance is certainly a shapeshifter, but I don't think he was ever a Democrat.