Non-partisan "Fuck the Status Quo" Thread of Dominance

[David Dennison 18837]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You're beaten down from knowing the truth, living it, and being hurt by it.  Don't look for validation from the world or from those you're physically serving.  Jesus didn't.  Seek contentment in all situations - you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.  

You realize this is just seeking validation in the supernatural, right? It's a psychological tool that evolved in human animals to help us survive.

[Sawbonz 27526]

20 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

 

OP has been deleted, comments visible, but the title said it all. It took exactly one day for hate to and cruelty towards others to continue to be normalized, and most dangerously, by America's young people. 

 

 

This was on day one. This is my biggest concern. What does this world look like for my kid?

If they are white straight and male pretty good

[Brisketexan 105041]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You're beaten down from knowing the truth, living it, and being hurt by it. 

Or maybe....just maybe....that "truth" is a stupid fucking lie.  Told mostly by "Christians" who actually live the exact opposite of that.

4 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Don't look for validation from the world or from those you're physically serving.

Oh, I don't need any personal validation.  I'm a results-oriented guy.  I just look at the evidence.  Are these efforts bearing fruit?  Are they worth it?  No?  Then stop wasting resources on them.

We want to be the society that tells hispanic kids in our school they are going to be deported, that tells women they are property, that texts friends happy that "stupid nigger lost," etc. -- all the stuff you've seen and heard already happening.  It's not that we are okay with that, it's that THIS IS WHAT WE ARE.  THIS IS WHAT WE'VE CHOSEN TO BE.  So why should we fight against our nature?

[troph 24781]

so Jesus made me in the womb yet he's not ok with who I am according to these people? circular logic is their MO.

[DixonHur 11292]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, no doubt.  It reflects very poorly on me.  I am a shitty human being.

In other words, I am a great American.  I embrace it.

ME.  That's what matters.  I've lived plenty of life.  I've spent a lot of energy, time, and money working to help other people.  Enough of that shit.  I'm in the ME years.  I want to bank some more money.  Set my kids up to be secure.  Have fun and great experiences with my wife and my friends.  Celebrate me.  Other people in this country want and need stuff?  Fuck 'em.  I got mine.  I am going full-on, 100% New American:

 

Welcome to Team...

This is exactly where I stand.  I did my part, but apparently more people chose the Leopards Eating Faces party.

If this were a split election where Trump won the EC but Kamala won the popular vote, I would likely have a different take, but the people spoke so, good luck with that.

As a 50+ year old, white, cis-gender, straight male with a Top 5% income and no kids, I'm less likely to feel the brunt of the Trump agenda.  I feel horrible for those in a less ideal situation who voted for Kamala. I hontely thought she would not only win but win convincingly.  However, it turns out that was just a result of me seeing the election through the lens of the 68% Kamala Austin bubble.

So, now I will just sit back and enjoy watching the Leopards eat the faces of the minorities, LGBTQ+, and women who voted for them.  Sorry to be crass, but it's true.  Elections have consequence.

[gsoda3 3245]

10 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

Can I get you to expound upon these thoughts? Are you saying that women should just resign themselves to death instead of seeking medical help when things go awry during pregnancy? Like, yes, I know that this pregnancy is going to kill me, but "C'est la vie!" or "God works in mysterious ways."

 

No, that was directed towards Brisket who wants to go all in on himself and abandon making the world a better place. 

 

The life of a woman is just as precious and important as the life of an unborn baby.  Yes one can speak for herself while the other cannot, but they are equally important.  

[SydneyCarton 48051]

24 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If they are white straight and male pretty good

He's a white male, too young to know whether or not he's straight. But I don't consider him being surrounded by an environment of hate and intolerance to be a good thing. 

And of course, the nobles thought everything in France was fucking great right up until the guillotine's theme music entered the chat. I'd rather not have him be a target by a furious group of people set upon retribution at any point in his life. 

Edited November 7 by SydneyCarton

[DixonHur 11292]

9 minutes ago, troph said:

so Jesus made me in the womb yet he's not ok with who I am according to these people? circular logic is their MO.

Religion is a scam ...news at 11

[bolverk 29644]

4 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

No, that was directed towards Brisket who wants to go all in on himself and abandon making the world a better place. 

 

The life of a woman is just as precious and important as the life of an unborn baby.  Yes one can speak for herself while the other cannot, but they are equally important.  

That's not how the GOP abortion ban is going in Texas. Women are dying because they're not getting the treatment they need during botched pregnancies.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

The life of a woman is just as precious and important as the life of an unborn baby.  Yes one can speak for herself while the other cannot, but they are equally important.  

This doesn't really answer his question though. 

 

[gsoda3 3245]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Or maybe....just maybe....that "truth" is a stupid fucking lie.  Told mostly by "Christians" who actually live the exact opposite of that.

Oh, I don't need any personal validation.  I'm a results-oriented guy.  I just look at the evidence.  Are these efforts bearing fruit?  Are they worth it?  No?  Then stop wasting resources on them.

 

 

So was Job.  And God told him he wasn't worthy of an explanation.  

 

Quote

We want to be the society that tells hispanic kids in our school they are going to be deported, that tells women they are property, that texts friends happy that "stupid nigger lost," etc. -- all the stuff you've seen and heard already happening.  It's not that we are okay with that, it's that THIS IS WHAT WE ARE.  THIS IS WHAT WE'VE CHOSEN TO BE.  So why should we fight against our nature?

 

You fight against this because you know it's wrong.  You know it's wrong because that is against everything God teaches.  You keep at it, without seeing results, because you have the promise that if you're in Jesus this is the closest to hell you'll get and that you'll receive your reward in full in the next life.  You believe that no? 

 

6 minutes ago, troph said:

so Jesus made me in the womb yet he's not ok with who I am according to these people? circular logic is their MO.

Your logic is off.  Jesus makes us.  He defines us. 

[wood 11225]

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I sense this is probably not gonna work out, but wanted to try to start a discussion thread about our overall politics, culture, issues, and the upcoming Trump term in good faith. If others are open to it, let's avoid the hysterics, name calling, and overly judgmental rhetoric to discuss issues and news as liberals/conservatives/none of the above, Trump or anti-Trump supporters.  Maybe something good will come out of it, even if it's just in this community. 

My man.

Couldn't find a "Hey now" gif, which is shocking imho, so I'll just go with the "I am Hank Fucking Kingsley" gif.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

No, that was directed towards Brisket who wants to go all in on himself and abandon making the world a better place. 

 

The life of a woman is just as precious and important as the life of an unborn baby.  Yes one can speak for herself while the other cannot, but they are equally important.  

How can a large segment of society work to make the world a better place, when a larger majority of people believe his specific efforts to make the world a better place are, in fact, making the world worse? "Oh, you volunteered your legal efforts pro bono to illegal immegrants? Yeah, you're fucking part of the problem."

When people can't agree on a common concept of what makes the world a better place, how is anyone supposed to operate? And don't fucking say "Do what you think is best" becuase clearly that isn't/hasn't worked. 

[gsoda3 3245]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

That's not how the GOP abortion ban is going in Texas. Women are dying because they're not getting the treatment they need during botched pregnancies.

You seem to think I'm speaking for the Republican Party of Texas?

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

7 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Welcome to Team...

This is exactly where I stand.  I did my part, but apparently more people chose the Leopards Eating Faces party.

If this were a split election where Trump won the EC but Kamala won the popular vote, I would likely have a different take, but the people spoke so, good luck with that.

As a 50+ year old, white, cis-gender, straight male with a Top 5% income and no kids, I'm less likely to feel the brunt of the Trump agenda.  I feel horrible for those in a less ideal situation who voted for Kamala. I hontely thought she would not only win but win convincingly.  However, it turns out that was just a result of me seeing the election through the lens of the 68% Kamala Austin bubble.

So, now I will just sit back and enjoy watching the Leopards eat the faces of the minorities, LGBTQ+, and women who voted for them.  Sorry to be crass, but it's true.  Elections have consequence.

Brother?  This is exactly where I am.  From the demographics to my attitude moving forward. 

As the rubes start getting to the FO phase, I'm gonna be

[gsoda3 3245]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This doesn't really answer his question though. 

 

 

Did I not? Which question?

 

Quote

Are you saying that women should just resign themselves to death instead of seeking medical help when things go awry during pregnancy?

 

 

10 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

No, that was directed towards Brisket who wants to go all in on himself and abandon making the world a better place. 

 

The life of a woman is just as precious and important as the life of an unborn baby.  Yes one can speak for herself while the other cannot, but they are equally important.  

 

[DixonHur 11292]

@gsoda3 I'm confused by your position.  Are you arguing for or against legalized abortion?

[bolverk 29644]

Just now, gsoda3 said:

You seem to think I'm speaking for the Republican Party of Texas?

As a 53-year-old lifelong Texan who grew up in the Southern Baptist church in a deeply conservative, rural part of the state, I know very well that most people of that faith wholeheartedly support the GOP. Within that context, it's clear that your religious beliefs hold a great deal of sway over how you think about this topic. I'm probing you because I want to understand your stand on the issue, which you've so far failed to clarify.

[Sawbonz 27526]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

He's a white male, too young to know whether or not he's straight. But I don't consider him being surrounded by an environment of hate and intolerance to be a bad thing. 

And of course, the nobles thought everything in France was fucking great right up until the guillotine's theme music entered the chat. I'd rather not have him be a target by a furious group of people set upon retribution at any point in his life. 

Oh I’m being facetious. I worry about my boys as much as my girls. One loves the outdoors and is constantly researching climate change. He is as distraught about what’s coming from that standpoint as he is worried about his sisters. My other son is extremely emotionally guarded but I can tell he is upset. Some of his oldest friends are among the jackasses I previously mentioned

[hobbes2702 13028]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Did I do it correctly?

What communist policies does the Democratic Party support?

[Sawbonz 27526]

8 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

So was Job.  And God told him he wasn't worthy of an explanation.  

 

 

You fight against this because you know it's wrong.  You know it's wrong because that is against everything God teaches.  You keep at it, without seeing results, because you have the promise that if you're in Jesus this is the closest to hell you'll get and that you'll receive your reward in full in the next life.  You believe that no? 

 

Your logic is off.  Jesus makes us.  He defines us. 

Do you take antibiotics?

[gsoda3 3245]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

How can a large segment of society work to make the world a better place, when a larger majority of people believe his specific efforts to make the world a better place are, in fact, making the world worse? "Oh, you volunteered your legal efforts pro bono to illegal immegrants? Yeah, you're fucking part of the problem."

When people can't agree on a common concept of what makes the world a better place, how is anyone supposed to operate? And don't fucking say "Do what you think is best" becuase clearly that isn't/hasn't worked. 

 

29 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You're beaten down from knowing the truth, living it, and being hurt by it.  Don't look for validation from the world or from those you're physically serving.  Jesus didn't.  Seek contentment in all situations - you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.  

 

 

Like I said, Jesus modeled it  Don't rely on society to make the world a better place.  You do it.  Join others who are doing it.  Don't seek validation from others, you won't receive it.  Even from the people you're helping.  

[SydneyCarton 48051]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Oh I’m being facetious. I worry about my boys as much as my girls. One loves the outdoors and is constantly researching climate change. He is as distraught about what’s coming from that standpoint as he is worried about his sisters. My other son is extremely emotionally guarded but I can tell he is upset. Some of his oldest friends are among the jackasses I previously mentioned

I know you are, but I'm being clear for the sake of the thread. Not that it hasn't just mostly been other folks looking to show up and dunk and be assholes. To the victor go the spoils, I guess, which isn't a terribly surprising attitude.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

 

Like I said, Jesus modeled it  Don't rely on society to make the world a better place.  You do it.  Join others who are doing it.  Don't seek validation from others, you won't receive it.  Even from the people you're helping.  

If you're suggesting we follow only the example of teaching and Jesus, well, I've got to say, that doesn't sound like finding a truce with the people I have different feelings with should be on the table. By your definition. 

[royiv 9241]

@gsoda3 I respect your religious beliefs and your right to worship in the way that you want just as much as I respect those of my Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and on and on brothers and sisters. In a country where the separation of church of state is enshrined in the first amendment of our constitution, why are your religious beliefs as a Christian more important than other religions? I don’t personally share your same belief about when life begins and neither does my wife. Why should you get to impose your religious beliefs upon us? 

[gsoda3 3245]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

@gsoda3 I'm confused by your position.  Are you arguing for or against legalized abortion?

 

I'm against it, mostly.  I do recognize there are situations where it needs to be an option so a complete ban is in my opinion too rigid. 

 

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

As a 53-year-old lifelong Texan who grew up in the Southern Baptist church in a deeply conservative, rural part of the state, I know very well that most people of that faith wholeheartedly support the GOP. Within that context, it's clear that your religious beliefs hold a great deal of sway over how you think about this topic. I'm probing you because I want to understand your stand on the issue, which you've so far failed to clarify.

Most of my closest friends are Christians between 25 and 50.  I'm thinking the 20 people closest to me- out of that group maybe 1 would wholeheartedly support the GOP.  

 

I haven't seen you ask me any questions, just statements.  I feel I've fleshed out my thinking quite clearly but maybe I haven't.  Where are you confused?

[Brisketexan 105041]

You seem to think I'm speaking for the Republican Party of Texas?

You are. Whether you intend to or not, you are.
You don’t get to invoke faith without being a Christian nationalist. They are inextricably itnertwined. And, yes, you personally are fine with women dying. Because you support anti-abortion policies without supporting and working for policies that would save women’s lives.
Anti-Abortion is about control. So is religion. You’re all in on both.

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

 

 

Most of my closest friends are Christians between 25 and 50.  I'm thinking the 20 people closest to me- out of that group maybe 1 would wholeheartedly support the GOP.  

 

 

[bolverk 29644]

4 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

I haven't seen you ask me any questions, just statements.  I feel I've fleshed out my thinking quite clearly but maybe I haven't.  Where are you confused?

This finally answered my question.

Quote

I'm against it, mostly.  I do recognize there are situations where it needs to be an option so a complete ban is in my opinion too rigid.

 

[gsoda3 3245]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

If you're suggesting we follow only the example of teaching and Jesus, well, I've got to say, that doesn't sound like finding a truce with the people I have different feelings with should be on the table. By your definition. 

It's complicated though isn't it.  OP called for a truce in this thread to discuss - frankly I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long.  

 

I believe there are things that are right as by the nature and laws of God.  I've outlined several of them in my first post- issues I disagree with both within the D and R party.  I might vote for a candidate from one or the other but I don't consider myself or tether myself to one party.  

[gsoda3 3245]

7 minutes ago, royiv said:

@gsoda3 I respect your religious beliefs and your right to worship in the way that you want just as much as I respect those of my Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and on and on brothers and sisters. In a country where the separation of church of state is enshrined in the first amendment of our constitution, why are your religious beliefs as a Christian more important than other religions? I don’t personally share your same belief about when life begins and neither does my wife. Why should you get to impose your religious beliefs upon us? 

Isn't that how it works? We all form opinions and vote based on our moral imperatives.  

[Foosters 17820]

25 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

You seem to think I'm speaking for the Republican Party of Texas?

why not? You seem to be speaking for Jesus.

[DixonHur 11292]

Just now, gsoda3 said:

It's complicated though isn't it.  OP called for a truce in this thread to discuss - frankly I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long.  

 

I believe there are things that are right as by the nature and laws of God.  I've outlined several of them in my first post- issues I disagree with both within the D and R party.  I might vote for a candidate from one or the other but I don't consider myself or tether myself to one party.  

This is where you lose me.  

Belief in God is a matter of faith, not fact.  The only fact, when it comes to religion, is that there are, and have always been, more than one.  And even within the larger groups of those religions, there are different interpretations on the doctrine.

So why should your particular flavor of religion be used to dictate how everyone else lives their lives?

[gsoda3 3245]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1.) You are. Whether you intend to or not, you are.
You don’t get to invoke faith without being a Christian nationalist. They are inextricably itnertwined.

 

 

2.) And, yes, you personally are fine with women dying. Because you support anti-abortion policies without supporting and working for policies that would save women’s lives.
Anti-Abortion is about control. So is religion. You’re all in on both.

 

1.) You might conflate me with the Texas GOP but that's a you thing.

 

2.) No.  I am not.  You don't know what I work for and what I give money to.  Again, you might conflate me with the boogieman in your mind but that's a you thing.  

 

 

[BurntEyes 5955]

4 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that state rights is a good idea with abortion. Determining personal freedoms based on where you or your parents live seems absolutely ridiculous to me. It forces people to move away from where they WANTED to be, and the long term affects of that type of migration will split this country apart even further. 

So, to have a discussion around solutions we have to agree to accept the conditions in which we find ourselves. 

Whether or not you think reproductive rights should be "managed" at the State or Federal level is not relevant to the topic of solutions. To discussion solutions we have to accept the current reality which can't be changed.

To simply dismiss the rest of my points/suggestion/idea and instead debate about where that protection should rest doesn't solve for the here and now. 

Right now it IS a state level discussion. So, let's discuss it at that level. Let us not discuss the issues with it being managed at that level or the negative impact.

I submitted a suggestion, an idea of how to potentially alter the public mindset, at a state level, regarding the importance of reproductive rights. Rather than offer alternatives or improvement to my idea you essentially said, "It bad that it's a the state level". 

Fine, it's bad. 

What's your suggestion for a fix if you don't like mine?

[capnamerca 571]

7 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

What's your suggestion for a fix if you don't like mine?

We gave up one really great option two days ago, as an American people.

[Ojo Rojo 1946]

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Coming in hot. 

Politically, I believe abortion should be legal with no restrictions. Simple as that. 

Personally, I think it would be ideal if abortion numbers decrease significantly. It has nothing to do with religion for me. It's because abortion, I assume,  is a terrible thing for a person to go through, and I don't want other people to suffer physically or mentally. I do think Buttigeg was eloquent in his defense of late term abortions with a perspective that needs to be considered more often. A lot of people have already bought a crib or picked out a name. It can be devastating for a family to make that decision, but is THEIR decision. They have to live with it, not us. 

So how do we get abortion numbers down?

I think sex education is important. Why are we pretending we can shield kids from this stuff when modern technology literally guides us to porn? It's just openly posted on Twitter at this point. If you were to type in  "Mark Kelly" in the search button , there's a decent chance that if you scroll down you'll see a video of some dude name Mark fucking a girl named Kelly in the ass. It's ridiculous. 

I think contraception and pregnancy tests should be incredibly cheap, if not free. Happy to hear more detailed suggestions. 

We need to make it very easy and inexpensive for women to go to the doctor in a timely fashion. 

Streamline and speed up the adoption process. Properly incentivize people that will carry to term. 

I know there are many other things that can help, these are just some initial offerings and I'm no expert. 

For those that are anti-abortion due to religious beliefs, I just think that sex is literally a part of our existence and that religion is a social construct. I respect your personal beliefs and for you to live your lives in accordance, as long as you're not harming others.  It's impossible to determine the circumstances and lived experience of others, let them safely make their own decision.

This is very close to my stance as well.  You would think that decreasing the number of abortions, instead of just making it illegal, would be an attractive alternative to those on the right. Sadly, I don't think it would be.

[Brisketexan 105041]

14 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

1.) You might conflate me with the Texas GOP but that's a you thing.

 

2.) No.  I am not.  You don't know what I work for and what I give money to.  Again, you might conflate me with the boogieman in your mind but that's a you thing.  

 

 

Naaah.....I know you very well.  I know a shitload of people just like you.

Faith is a shield you use against actual moral accountability.  Nothing you believe and support can be criticized, nor can the outcomes they lead to be criticized, because you are just "obeying Jesus."

"Obeying Jesus," as done in this society, results in pain, suffering, cruelty, and death.  When a woman in Texas experiences exactly what my wife experienced in a miscarriage (thankfully, hers was 20 years ago), she has a much higher chance of dying.  Which is just God's will (yet another approach that absolves you of all moral accountability).

You claim morality.  Oh, the irony.  The "morality" you claim is the very thing that absolves you from all accountability or actual moral practice.  You're just "obeying Jesus," and any bad outcomes are just "God's will."

Fuck that.  The bad outcomes are due to evil and cruelty.  Much of that evil cruelty is yours.

[Hank_Hill 18785]

5 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

This is very close to my stance as well.  You would think that decreasing the number of abortions, instead of just making it illegal, would be an attractive alternative to those on the right. Sadly, I don't think it would be.

The people making the policies don’t actually care about abortions. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2819]

[Rushmore film scene where Dirk Calloway, in a wizard suit, yells "Truce"! when Max returns to Rushmore Academy.] 

[bad_teammate 13185]

42 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

How can a large segment of society work to make the world a better place, when a larger majority of people believe his specific efforts to make the world a better place are, in fact, making the world worse? "Oh, you volunteered your legal efforts pro bono to illegal immegrants? Yeah, you're fucking part of the problem."

To answer this question seriously, if people stop arguing and paying so much attention to the worst voices (which, in truth, require specific effort on our parts to even find) then they'll realize they're often pulling the rope in the same direction more often than not, especially if the issues/work is local and not explicitly political.

You can, locally, feed the homeless, read books to elementary school kids, deliver meals on wheels, etc... with people whose political views you abhor and not even know it unless you make it a point to try and find out. (Or were incapable of ignoring/shooting down their overtures to start political conversations.)

Even in the world of volunteering pro bono for illegal immigrants, who would you even talk to that would respond that way and what would it matter? I know millions of Americans who would be mad at you, but at what point would that conversation even really happen?

Someone asked either here or in another thread why do Democrats need to be the bigger person or the adult in the room or whatever... it's because there's no other option. Not in some dramatic martyrdom way in which we nobles are holding up the pillars of society, but there's just not another option if we are in charge of our own values.

So I can do whatever the fuck I want because it doesn't matter how many people believe my specific efforts are making the world worse. Their opinion has zero power or relevance that I do not purposefully and intentionally give away.

[Ojo Rojo 1946]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, no doubt.  It reflects very poorly on me.  I am a shitty human being.

In other words, I am a great American.  I embrace it.

ME.  That's what matters.  I've lived plenty of life.  I've spent a lot of energy, time, and money working to help other people.  Enough of that shit.  I'm in the ME years.  I want to bank some more money.  Set my kids up to be secure.  Have fun and great experiences with my wife and my friends.  Celebrate me.  Other people in this country want and need stuff?  Fuck 'em.  I got mine.  I am going full-on, 100% New American:

 

[Ojo Rojo 1946]

4 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

The people making the policies don’t actually care about abortions. 

Oh, yeah.  Right.  Momentary lapse.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

To answer this question seriously, if people stop arguing and paying so much attention to the worst voices (which, in truth, require specific effort on our parts to even find) then they'll realize they're often pulling the rope in the same direction more often than not, especially if the issues/work is local and not explicitly political.

You can, locally, feed the homeless, read books to elementary school kids, deliver meals on wheels, etc... with people whose political views you abhor and not even know it unless you make it a point to try and find out. (Or were incapable of ignoring/shooting down their overtures to start political conversations.)

Even in the world of volunteering pro bono for illegal immigrants, who would you even talk to that would respond that way and what would it matter? I know millions of Americans who would be mad at you, but at what point would that conversation even really happen?

Someone asked either here or in another thread why do Democrats need to be the bigger person or the adult in the room or whatever... it's because there's no other option. Not in some dramatic martyrdom way in which we nobles are holding up the pillars of society, but there's just not another option if we are in charge of our own values.

So I can do whatever the fuck I want because it doesn't matter how many people believe my specific efforts are making the world worse. Their opinion has zero power or relevance that I do not purposefully and intentionally give away.

Sure man, I agree with that. But the whole point of this thread was transparency and finding commonality. Not just doing what you think is bettering, but working to find commonality in the good with people you disagree with...so it's a fundamental quesiton. Sure, you can all feed the homless and candy stripe in cancer wards. But the overarching question of "what happens when 50% of the people think the good you're doing is wrong" needs to be answered if you're attempting to build a relationship with those you disagree with. etc. 

[Brisketexan 105041]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Even in the world of volunteering pro bono for illegal immigrants, who would you even talk to that would respond that way and what would it matter? I know millions of Americans who would be mad at you, but at what point would that conversation even really happen?

I don't care about what people think about me.  I care about the fact that it is pointless and a waste of time.  You can spend your lifetime building the Taj Mahal of decency.  The majority of Americans are doing everything possible to turn it to rubble in minutes.

It's a waste.  It's stupid to even try.  When the cruelty is the point and the entire point, decency is a wasted effort, a sisyphean task.

Stop trying to help people.  Most of them don't want it.  Most of them don't deserve it.  And even if they do, whatever good you spend a lifetime doing will be torn down in an instant, because that's the way we want it.  Don't be stupid.

[capnamerca 571]

8 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

2.) No.  I am not.  You don't know what I work for and what I give money to.  Again, you might conflate me with the boogieman in your mind but that's a you thing. 

This isn't directed at you specifically, but your comment here is emblematic of the issue. Because in this country, we get one of two choices - Republican or Democrat - that shape the direction of this country. You can hold all the personal beliefs you want, you can donate to all the right organizations, you can volunteer your time at the shelter, and those are wonderful things which I sincerely keep happening. But enacting change comes from one of two places, and you sat it out. We saw who won, and thus ... you're part of the problem.

Newt Gingrich is the other reason why this is such an intractable problem. This thread started on the premise of a truce, of a cogent conversation amongst people who's opinions differed. Baked into that 'truce' assumption is that by finding places where two different sides might agree, there exists a place where compromise can thus happen. Newt moved the republican party to a place where compromise is, quite literally, no longer possible. (Source) I forget who the poster was up-thread who said "democrats have said that about every GOP nominee in my lifetime," and then referenced Romney and both Bushes, all three of whom were nominees AFTER the Gingrich brain-worm had taken root. There did use to be a compromise concept to both parties. but it died in the late 90's on the GOP side.

So when the progressives / liberals / democrats scream for compromise, for policies that put our most marginalized people first, for policies that help ALL Americans, the GOP DNA sees them as weakness, as losing. Compromise requires two parties acting in good faith, and the GOP aren't, and haven't in more than 30 years. It's completely useless to have any conversation about policy, because there's 0 chance of anything happening in the Senate or House, and the REASON that nothing will happen is entirely on the GOP. This is not to say that the democrats have policy figured out, or have any sort of monopoly on being right, but there's no path for the democrats to work on anything, because the other side won't do a goddamned thing in good faith.

Which leaves us with one option and one option only - the presidential and congressional elections. If the democrats don't have control, then there is no structure in place any more to check the most basic of our human nature. Even if GOP senators or advisors wanted to consider doing something positive for the American common man, the minute they engage a democratic peer to work on something, they're ostracized by the party. Just look at the border bill for this insane reluctance to work on things that would benefit their own goddamned party, simply because of the deep-seated need to not give the other side a win.

I have no energy left to think about compromise, because it doesn't do any good. The political people we just put into power have no interest in governing, only in winning, and the people that are going to suffer are all of us. They don't care about policy; they only care about winning. How anyone can vote for that is beyond me, and how anyone can claim for one second that "if the democrats only did X or Y, then we'd be more willing to lean in" is beyond me, because the facts of the matter are, you like winning too. More than you like helping your fellow man. Otherwise you would have voted for the Democratic nominee, and preserved some small piece of the American Experiment. 

BTW, an abortion ban doesn't reduce abortion. It only reduces safe abortion, which is a different way of saying it only kills more women. Progressives have spent the better part of 20 years putting forth common-sense legislation and educational programs designed to reduce abortion. NOBODY wants to kill babies, we're just ALSO interested in not killing women, and realize that the solution requires nuance. If you want to work on not killing babies or women, we're happy to have your vote in the mid-term elections. If you don't care about women, then please, continue to sit out.

Sigh. I tried. But I guess this was directed at gsoda directly, at least a little bit.

[Iceman 2690]

My concerns are:

Public school funding/ waving the white flag on integration and community. Public schools are a direct investment in US.  Some folks are saying, "Fuck US."  I don't like it.

Foreign Policy- My concern is control and not being a wrecking ball towards our allies.  Yes, some of them need to shit or get off the pot. Don't crush them.

Prosecution of political enemies- I don't care who started it.  Be better.  There are far bigger fish to fry.

Economy: I think some of Trumps focal points will help Texas, but I hardly trust him with the big picture.  He had some very strong indicators pre-covid; but he also has the "rest of his record."

Like the OP, I am glad a statement was made by the electorate, and I pray that accountability or continuity reign in 2026, according to the results.

I don't like funny-business with the Supremes, but I also don't want a left-leaning court.  I didn't like the repeal of Roe V. Wade.  Guess I'm pretty fucking indecisive in the big picture, but thought that move hurt society.

Immigration- enforce the laws on the books.  Open borders are bullshit and people know it.  They thought it would dilute the electorate with blue.  Turns out that experiment might have backfired.  Just enforce the laws on the books.  I know there are good people here who have immigrated illegally.  Follow the process.

I didn't vote for Trump, nor have I remotely celebrated this election.  It has been incredibly different and defined, however.  I want the right to act responsibly( they won't) and the left to correct their platform( they won't.)  So there we are.

In the end, be the best citizen/neighbor/ parent/spouse you can be and hope the idiots in charge don't screw the pooch too badly( they likely will.)

 

 

[mchookem 16318]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Religion is a scam ...news at 11

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Anyone that voted for the GOP voted to make me, and every woman in this country, a second class citizen. They do not care if we have bodily autonomy or not, and a growing portion of MAGA has openly talked about rescinding the 19th Amendment. 

So fuck your feelings. There will be no truce.  You don't deserve the consideration.

[Brisketexan 105041]

1 minute ago, capnamerca said:

BTW, an abortion ban doesn't reduce abortion. It only reduces safe abortion, which is a different way of saying it only kills more women. Progressives have spent the better part of 20 years putting forth common-sense legislation and educational programs designed to reduce abortion. NOBODY wants to kill babies, we're just ALSO interested in not killing women, and realize that the solution requires nuance. If you want to work on not killing babies or women, we're happy to have your vote in the mid-term elections. If you don't care about women, then please, continue to sit out.

Psssst.  It's because all of the abortion bans aren't about reducing abortion at all.

They are about controlling women, and punishing them for being harlots, jezebels, and for the original sins of Eve, that bitch who tricked us out of a life in Eden.  That's it.  That's the entire story.  Because yes, if the goal was ACTUALLY to reduce abortions and protect women's health, there are literally thousands of other things we could do.  And the GQP is interested in NONE of those things.  That's not an eerie coincidence.  It's the tell that reveals the whole story.