Non-partisan "Fuck the Status Quo" Thread of Dominance

[troph 24562]

man this thread went ....

real fast.

[G650 14100]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Now's the time to hit the showers, then go to the scrip club and snort a few lines

Well shit, when you put it that way

[Brisketexan 104585]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Anyone that voted for the GOP voted to make me, and every woman in this country, a second class citizen. They do not care if we have bodily autonomy or not, and a growing portion of MAGA has openly talked about rescinding the 19th Amendment. 

So fuck your feelings. There will be no truce.  You don't deserve the consideration.

This.  America and Trumpism opted for Palpatine's rule (don't take my word for it -- listen to Trump's words about punishment and retribution, and how any who disagree with him are vermin, how ALL immigrants are "poison," etc.), listen to his supporters who, unleased by Tuesdays results, cannot spew the hateful slurs and threats to minorities fast enough):

We should just do the same.  That's really all I suggest.  But I would put a wrinkle on it: only hate when it's easy and convenient.  Because really, all of your effort and energy should be spent on YOU, and what is good for YOU.  Indifference to your fellow man is what is best.  Hate is an indulgence.  Only engage when you have the free time and energy.  Otherwise, devote all energy to the "get mine" quest.

[capnamerca 571]

2 minutes ago, Iceman said:

My concerns are:

Public school funding/ waving the white flag on integration and community. Public schools are a direct investment in US.  Some folks are saying, "Fuck US."  I don't like it.

Foreign Policy- My concern is control and not being a wrecking ball towards our allies.  Yes, some of them need to shit or get off the pot. Don't crush them.

Prosecution of political enemies- I don't care who started it.  Be better.  There are far bigger fish to fry.

Economy: I think some of Trumps focal points will help Texas, but I hardly trust him with the big picture.  He had some very strong indicators pre-covid; but he also has the "rest of his record."

Like the OP, I am glad a statement was made by the electorate, and I pray that accountability or continuity reign in 2026, according to the results.

I don't like funny-business with the Supremes, but I also don't want a left-leaning court.  I didn't like the repeal of Roe V. Wade.  Guess I'm pretty fucking indecisive in the big picture, but thought that move hurt society.

Immigration- enforce the laws on the books.  Open borders are bullshit and people know it.  They thought it would dilute the electorate with blue.  Turns out that experiment might have backfired.  Just enforce the laws on the books.  I know there are good people here who have immigrated illegally.  Follow the process.

I didn't vote for Trump, nor have I remotely celebrated this election.  It has been incredibly different and defined, however.  I want the right to act responsibly( they won't) and the left to correct their platform( they won't.)  So there we are.

In the end, be the best citizen/neighbor/ parent/spouse you can be and hope the idiots in charge don't screw the pooch too badly( they likely will.)

 

 

One party supports structure and decorum around the supreme coury, and one party holds confirmations only when it benefits their party, appoints clearly political appointees, and leverages the supreme court flow to directly enrich themselves. (BTW a left-leaning court is responsible for some pretty basic things historically, like desegregation and the ability of my wife to vote).

Immigration - the border isn't open, but it is overwhelmed. One party put forth common sense legislation to try and do something about it, acknowledging that individual bill wasn't perfect but that we had to start somewhere, and worked to have in-congress bipartisan support for it. The other party killed that bill so as not to give the first party a "win" during an election season, which seems to be a rather unserious attempt to fix said border problem.

What parts of the Left's platform need correcting? Can you please list off policy that's been voted into law (or ED), or policy that you think was rightly shot down which would otherwise have been enacted, that's broken?

[SydneyCarton 47871]

This thead is worthless. There's not a real dialog. The first few pages were shitposters, and the last few are Brisket shitposting. 

[BurntOrange&White 39644]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

man this thread went ....

real fast.

It started off strong and I love the premise. 

[capnamerca 571]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Psssst.  It's because all of the abortion bans aren't about reducing abortion at all.

oh, I know. I've known specifically in my own household since about 2012, when we heartbreakingly needed access to those types of services. Even then, the hoops we had to jump through clearly had nothing to do with the health and safety of my wife, or even her future ability to let us try again. And as if I needed reminding, I've watched like everyone else while the GOP systematically dismantled or refused to invest in anything even remotely related to education, womens health, or childcare programs, as if I needed any more proof.

[Iceman 2639]

5 minutes ago, capnamerca said:

O

What parts of the Left's platform need correcting? Can you please list off policy that's been voted into law (or ED), or policy that you think was rightly shot down which would otherwise have been enacted, that's broken?

Student loan forgiveness is horseshit.  'tis but a symptom.

Giving away what other folks actually worked for doesn't sit well with reasonable folks.

You went to school.  You signed the note.  Now pay the motherfucker.

Please.

Edited November 7 by Iceman

[Brisketexan 104585]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

There's not a real dialog.

What dialogue is there to have with Trumpers?

We're not 48 hours out from the results, and the cascade of open and empowered racism and hate from the MAGA movement -- with ZERO check or call-out on it from the Trumpists -- is already flowing at a flood-rate.

The Trumpists who post here are all about gleefully taunting and trolling everyone else.  Because that is who they are.

There is no conversation to have with them.  They enjoy your pain and suffering.  They revel in their cruelty, and their ability to inflict pain and suffering on others without any consequences or checks.  How do you have a dialogue with that?  

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

Giving away what other folks actually worked for doesn't sit well with reasonable folks.

[laughs in massive corporate subsidies, including to the second God of the MAGA movement, Elon Musk]

[Iceman 2639]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What dialogue is there to have with Trumpers?

 

There isn't one.  My Trumper friends bitch at me that I don't like him.  My left leaning friends bitch at me that I don't wish he'd burst into flames.

 

It's LOL but not LOL.

 

In the end, I don't control what the POTUS does.  Neither do you.  We can still try to live on the same street and note hate each other, even if I don't think our base values are very far apart at all.

Edited November 7 by Iceman

[MonkeyDoughnut 10144]

12 minutes ago, troph said:

man this thread went ....

real fast.

It just take a couple... or one... to derail things quickly. Sad really

[Brisketexan 104585]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

We can still try to live on the same street and note hate each other

I don't hate you.  That takes energy.  I just don't care what happens to you.  And if I can, I will take advantage of you and profit from your misfortune.  Because I am a patriotic American.

[Brisketexan 104585]

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It just take a couple... or one... to derail things quickly. Sad really

Answer this:

What dialogue is there to have with Trumpers?

We're not 48 hours out from the results, and the cascade of open and empowered racism and hate from the MAGA movement -- with ZERO check or call-out on it from the Trumpists -- is already flowing at a flood-rate.

The Trumpists who post here are all about gleefully taunting and trolling everyone else.  Because that is who they are.

 

 

Tell me how we have a dialogue or truce with that?

[Bill Brasky 1439]

13 minutes ago, troph said:

man this thread went ....

real fast.

yep, this is why this forum is shit.  and the bleed over to the other forums from this forum is shit.  one thing hornfans got right was how they moderated the political forum.   this is like reading the facebook comments section for the local news channels   

[Hank_Hill 18486]

13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It started off strong and I love the premise. 

Most sane people would love the premise both here and in real life. It has never happened and never will. Human nature is conflict. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10144]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Answer this:

What dialogue is there to have with Trumpers?

We're not 48 hours out from the results, and the cascade of open and empowered racism and hate from the MAGA movement -- with ZERO check or call-out on it from the Trumpists -- is already flowing at a flood-rate.

The Trumpists who post here are all about gleefully taunting and trolling everyone else.  Because that is who they are.

 

 

Tell me how we have a dialogue or truce with that?

We get it, you have made it completely clear for years now. Every person who voted Republican is an ultra Trumper who bleeds his values through and though. There is no gray area. They are all cookie cutter identical twins. They are now more than half the country, they have won. It's over.

[capnamerca 571]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

Student loan forgiveness is horseshit.  'tis but a symptom.

Giving away what other folks actually worked for doesn't sit well with reasonable folks.

There's a ton of great nuanced conversation we can have here. 

First off, no one got "free money," and the government didn't spend your tax dollars to write anyone a check. The vast majority of what was forgiven was future-money-owed, and in many of those cases, the boworrer had already repaid the original value of the loan. I acknowledge that I'm not bringing data to this statement, but these are the general themes of what the program was built on. 

I'd love to talk with you about WHY these loans got to a point where forgiveness was something to even be considered. Lending practices in higher education have horrendously misaligned incentives. The primary lender in these situations is the federal government - Fannie and Freddie. The money is made incredibly easy for 18, 19, 20 year olds to get. That easy money has led universities to actually REDUCE the amount of other types of incentives available to students, and it's enabled them to raise tuition without seeing a commensurate change in their enrollment. Additionally, because student loans aren't dischargeable by bankruptcy, Fannie and Freddie have very little incentive to decline borrowers, which feeds this "easy money" feedback loop on the supply side. This disconnection of the normal market-force check and balance has led to really bad outcomes for a lot of people. I FULLY agree that 'loan forgiveness' is a really blunt-force way to try and ease the pressure on these folks; I'm very much a "pay back what you sign your name to" guy in real life. But we gotta do SOMETHING, because people are suffering. Guess which party has no interest in a compromise and working across the aisle on these things?

It's also worth pointing out what these folks do when their loans are forgiven. What's the outcome of that money? They spend it. It goes back into the economy, many times over. These are generally kids, trying to get ahead, get out of credit card debt, maybe buy a house or a car, plan a wedding. And it's money that already exists in the grand machine, and it doesn't have to be printed, so it's non-inflationary. That young person just got a raise, and no one had to increase wages, or approve a tax break, or fight to make consumables costs cheaper. All three of those are GOP stronghold positions, and things that GOP voters keep saying they care about.

 

So it's difficult to have a conversation about "student loan forgiveness" because all the outcomes seem good for the GOP. It sure looks like GOP voters really just want people to suffer.

[Sawbonz 27419]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

then go to the scrip club 

And you said you were through contributing to society 

 

[Iceman 2639]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Answer this:

What dialogue is there to have with Trumpers?

We're not 48 hours out from the results, and the cascade of open and empowered racism and hate from the MAGA movement -- with ZERO check or call-out on it from the Trumpists -- is already flowing at a flood-rate.

The Trumpists who post here are all about gleefully taunting and trolling everyone else.  Because that is who they are.

 

 

Tell me how we have a dialogue or truce with that?

You don't even like the non Trumpers.

Perfect for a trcue thread.  You hate everyone.

1 minute ago, capnamerca said:

There's a ton of great nuanced conversation we can have here. 

First off, no one got "free money," and the government didn't spend your tax dollars to write anyone a check. The vast majority of what was forgiven was future-money-owed, and in many of those cases, the boworrer had already repaid the original value of the loan. I acknowledge that I'm not bringing data to this statement, but these are the general themes of what the program was built on. 

I'd love to talk with you about WHY these loans got to a point where forgiveness was something to even be considered. Lending practices in higher education have horrendously misaligned incentives. The primary lender in these situations is the federal government - Fannie and Freddie. The money is made incredibly easy for 18, 19, 20 year olds to get. That easy money has led universities to actually REDUCE the amount of other types of incentives available to students, and it's enabled them to raise tuition without seeing a commensurate change in their enrollment. Additionally, because student loans aren't dischargeable by bankruptcy, Fannie and Freddie have very little incentive to decline borrowers, which feeds this "easy money" feedback loop on the supply side. This disconnection of the normal market-force check and balance has led to really bad outcomes for a lot of people. I FULLY agree that 'loan forgiveness' is a really blunt-force way to try and ease the pressure on these folks; I'm very much a "pay back what you sign your name to" guy in real life. But we gotta do SOMETHING, because people are suffering. Guess which party has no interest in a compromise and working across the aisle on these things?

It's also worth pointing out what these folks do when their loans are forgiven. What's the outcome of that money? They spend it. It goes back into the economy, many times over. These are generally kids, trying to get ahead, get out of credit card debt, maybe buy a house or a car, plan a wedding. And it's money that already exists in the grand machine, and it doesn't have to be printed, so it's non-inflationary. That young person just got a raise, and no one had to increase wages, or approve a tax break, or fight to make consumables costs cheaper. All three of those are GOP stronghold positions, and things that GOP voters keep saying they care about.

 

So it's difficult to have a conversation about "student loan forgiveness" because all the outcomes seem good for the GOP. It sure looks like GOP voters really just want people to suffer.

No it isn't about suffering.  It's about owning what you do.  Don't be acting like the person thought that English Lit degree was gonna pay  itself off.   It was just fuck-fuck time in college, but now I want a bailout.

 

Mkay.  Work it off.

Edited November 7 by Iceman

[Brisketexan 104585]

Just now, Iceman said:

Perfect for a trcue thread.  You hate everyone.

[Sawbonz 27419]

15 minutes ago, Iceman said:

You went to school.  You signed the note.  Now pay the motherfucker.

Even if it was Trump university or another one of the blatantly fraudulent for profit “schools?”

[Iceman 2639]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Even if it was Trump university or another one of the blatantly fraudulent for profit “schools?”

LOL.

Yes. especially those.

[David Dennison 18655]

5 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

We get it, you have made it completely clear for years now. Every person who voted Republican is an ultra Trumper who bleeds his values through and though. There is no gray area. They are all cookie cutter identical twins. They are now more than half the country, they have won. It's over.

Yeah, but that won't last. It's as fleeting as a fart in the wind.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't hate you.  That takes energy.  I just don't care what happens to you.  And if I can, I will take advantage of you and profit from your misfortune.  Because I am a patriotic American.

This.

[Sawbonz 27419]

12 minutes ago, Iceman said:

LOL.

Yes. especially those.

You realize those people were mostly naive poor people who are first generation college students or people whose school districts abandoned teaching trades?

Edited November 7 by Sawbonz

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

GOP, fuck forgiving student loans, but forgiving PPP loans to GOP MOC or Senators...AOK.

 

[capnamerca 571]

4 minutes ago, Iceman said:

No it isn't about suffering.  It's about owning what you do.  Don't be acting like the person thought that English Lit degree was gonna pay  itself off.   It was just fuck-fuck time in college, but now I want a bailout.

People are TRYING, man! 

Yes, people should make better decisions about what degrees they take. Let's emphasize the trades more in high school. Let's put some federal money towards educational programs, manned by the Department of Education.
Yes, people should make better decisions about what loans they should take out. Let's ALSO hold Freddie and Fannie accountable for making some really terrible loans to people they're pretty sure would never be able to pay it back.

Yes, you should pay back what you sign your name to. But bankruptcy exists because a long time ago, we founded this country on the ideals that all of us are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and one of the things we very specifically contemplated were "second chance" things, like bankruptcy. But student loans are exempt? Why?

Even if we stopped the forgiveness programs right now, we're just dooming another generation of borrowers to the same fate if we don't DO something about it. 

[David Dennison 18655]

19 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Student loan forgiveness is horseshit.  'tis but a symptom.

Giving away what other folks actually worked for doesn't sit well with reasonable folks.

You went to school.  You signed the note.  Now pay the motherfucker.

Please.

Spare the outrage. Working Americans have been subsidizing the rich for as long as we've had a tax code. 

[capnamerca 571]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

GOP, fuck forgiving student loans, but forgiving PPP loans to GOP MOC or Senators...AOK.

also, don't print any money to help with inflation, don't give anyone any tax breaks, and don't force companies to pay better wages. 

[Sawbonz 27419]

10 minutes ago, Iceman said:

You don't even like the non Trumpers.

Perfect for a trcue thread.  You hate everyone.

No it isn't about suffering.  It's about owning what you do.  Don't be acting like the person thought that English Lit degree was gonna pay  itself off.   It was just fuck-fuck time in college, but now I want a bailout.

 

Mkay.  Work it off.

I’ve got an English lit degree. I’m doing ok

[Guadaloopy 10921]

1 minute ago, capnamerca said:

don't print any money to help with inflation

Wait... you think printing money helps inflation?  If by help you mean "increase the rate of", then yes you are correct.  

[mchookem 16206]

i have a government degree from UT.

i fucking wish i had an English lit degree, i might not care as much and life would be a whole lot less stressful/sad right now.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2790]

Position:  The immigration issue needs to be transparent.  We need to have people abide by laws and we need to allow workers into the country as needed.  I think Trump trying to blow things up is going to lead to some cruelty, but it's also going to hopefully lead to honesty about the need for cheap labor, whether Americans are willing to pay more for labor, whether we need a much more robust temporary worker program, etc.  

Which in turn could lead to a situation where people and businesses can actually survive and comply with the law at the same time.

Netted out:  I don't trust Trump's motives at all but this could lead to somewhat depoliticizing the issue.

[Sawbonz 27419]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

GOP, fuck forgiving student loans, but forgiving PPP loans to GOP MOC or Senators...AOK.

 

lol how about Wall Street and Detroit? What was the price tag on those?

Or the S&Ls in the 80s? That was $120B - and them were 1980’s dollars

On top of taxpayer funded bailouts there are bankruptcies-which pretty much any business can use to get out from under; and any individual- unless the debt is student loans. So fucked up

[DaysOff 7851]

That's not how the GOP abortion ban is going in Texas. Women are dying because they're not getting the treatment they need during botched pregnancies.

Like President Selena Meyer said, "if men could get pregnant, you could get an abortion at the ATM."

The forced birth movement led by mostly white men is beyond hypocritical. The modern GOP is a Christian nationalist movement and American Christianity has become a political movement. Cukoo

[The Original Greaser Bob 2790]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i fucking wish i had an English lit degree, i might not care as much and life would be a whole lot less stressful/sad right now.

Sounds like you have never met an English lit major.  

We're stress monkeys.

[Brisketexan 104585]

18 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

We get it, you have made it completely clear for years now. Every person who voted Republican is an ultra Trumper who bleeds his values through and though. There is no gray area. They are all cookie cutter identical twins. They are now more than half the country, they have won. It's over.

I note that you don't have an answer to the question.  Why are the Trumpists, in the last 48 hours, spewing fountains of hate, attacks, threats, and slurs against minorities and such.....with ZERO check or call-out from Trump supporters?  None.  Nada.  Zilch.  There is NO voice in the MAGA movement saying "that's bullshit, that's not who we are."

And you know EXACTLY why that is.  You know why it's true for you as well.

Shit, it doesn't even make you uncomfortable.

[Iceman 2639]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Spare the outrage. Working Americans have been subsidizing the rich for as long as we've had a tax code. 

Entitlement to tax monies isn't a great selling point, platform wise.

Just saying.  The mentality is repugnant to some, regardless of income level. especially when we have citizens with a net positive tax bill federally.

 

All that being said, the genie's out of the bottle with regard to fiscal conservatism, regardless of political ideology.  We will not see it again in our lifetimes this side of a massive economic fallout.

 

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

I don’t personally share your same belief about when life begins and neither does my wife. Why should you get to impose your religious beliefs upon us? 

The human life cycle is a matter of biological science, not religion. Whether or not human life has intrinsic value and rights is a matter of philosophy. 

[JBJ 3649]

5 hours ago, JBJ said:

I support the sentiment of this thread, but it never lasts. There's a handful of posters glaringly missing from this board right now, and an influx of non-partisan posters that make the discussion tolerable right now.

But it won't last.  The 24/7 news cycle will run out of actual things to discuss, and the only people who will care enough on a regular basis to post are the extreme partisans.  This is just the way things are.

Called it.

[Brisketexan 104585]

4 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Position:  The immigration issue needs to be transparent.  We need to have people abide by laws and we need to allow workers into the country as needed.  I think Trump trying to blow things up is going to lead to some cruelty, but it's also going to hopefully lead to honesty about the need for cheap labor, whether Americans are willing to pay more for labor, whether we need a much more robust temporary worker program, etc.  

Which in turn could lead to a situation where people and businesses can actually survive and comply with the law at the same time.

Netted out:  I don't trust Trump's motives at all but this could lead to somewhat depoliticizing the issue.

Oh, my sweet summer child.  "Outrage at our broken immigration system" is the key to decades of electoral dominance for the GQP.  Why on earth would they EVER make that issue go away?

No Republican since GWB has had ANY interest in actual sound immigration policy.  Their only interest, their ENTIRE interest, is in stoking the fires of xenophobic nationalism for political gain.  Which is understandable, because it has worked like a charm.  A GQP without "FIX OUR BORDERS!"  to run on doesn't grab nearly as much power as it has.  They will never, ever, ever let that issue get solved -- it would kill them.

[Iceman 2639]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

lol how about Wall Street and Detroit? What was the price tag on those?

Or the S&Ls in the 80s? That was $120B - and them were 1980’s dollars

On top of taxpayer funded bailouts there are bankruptcies-which pretty much any business can use to get out from under; and any individual- unless the debt is student loans. So fucked up

I didn't support those either.
I got to meet our local Representative in person in the year following the bailouts.  I told him I agreed with a lot of what he does, but I could not disagree more with voting for the that fucking move.

Like I posted earlier, good luck with the pursuit of any fiscal responsibility.  It doesn't mean I had to like the school loan bullshit though, either.

[capnamerca 571]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Entitlement to tax monies isn't a great selling point, platform wise.

Just saying.  The mentality is repugnant to some, regardless of income level. especially when we have citizens with a net positive tax bill federally.

It's been a pretty big selling point for the GOP, but it's because those entitlements go to corporations and donors, and not the American people.

 

And if the mentality is repugnant to some, help us change the narrative by bringing back nuance and compromise.

[Iceman 2639]

3 minutes ago, capnamerca said:

It's been a pretty big selling point for the GOP, but it's because those entitlements go to corporations and donors, and not the American people.

 

And if the mentality is repugnant to some, help us change the narrative by bringing back nuance and compromise.

Jobs don't just come from thin air, neither do capital investments.

You and I are diametrically opposed on this topic.  I'm never going to change because my beliefs/ values are what I've experienced.  Sorry, not sorry.

 

Agree to truce.

Edited November 7 by Iceman

[immamac 42516]

So to get this thread back on track let's remove all the single issue mainstream issues from discussion? 

Do we just remove Republican and Democrat only policies and put forward ideas that are original for problems facing America not based in either platform?

Right now the reason this devolves into this type of thread is because everyone is starting from a position of who got elected on what platform. What if this was more of a thread of no platform but one that surly is putting forward? 

I can moderate to that. I can't moderate to the OPs idea. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2790]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No Republican since GWB has had ANY interest in actual sound immigration policy. 

No President has shaken up the landscape such that it seriously affects the economies of the region and nation.  This President is threatening to do that.  And if he does, that could lead to actual sound policy way down the line.  

[Dbeasy 14965]

The faster people recognize the genius of George Carlin, the faster we the people all come together and focus our energy on the real enemy. 
 

 

In the meantime,I’ll have to figure out healthcare after the Republicans torpedo it, but I’ll be fine compared to most others. People’s apathy and misdirected beliefs are gonna make their lives pretty shitty in the future. Oh well. Anyway…

[royiv 9154]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The human life cycle is a matter of biological science, not religion. Whether or not human life has intrinsic value and rights is a matter of philosophy. 

Correct. I was a bit lazy in my choice of words, but you make a very important distinction.

[immamac 42516]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

Jobs don't just come from thin air, neither do capital investments.

They actually do, this is why you are wrong. 

In todays America you can lie cook your books and poof debt funding into existence or scam investors with no recourse. 

Jobs are literally poofed into existence all the time, most of them pay really well and have no real impact because corporations have unfathomably large budgets. 

[BurntEyes 5831]

1 hour ago, capnamerca said:

We gave up one really great option two days ago, as an American people.

That's venting not discussing options in our actual reality. 

It's not productive.