The New Democratic Platform

[wildcat09 29509]

7 minutes ago, BillyBadAss said:

My perception is that many dems conflate every issue with identity. Take the Green New Deal -  the message was not "climate change affects ALL of us, we really need to take it seriously".  It was: 

"Whereas climate change, pollution, and environmental destruction have exacerbated systemic racial, regional, social, environmental, and economic injustices (referred to in this preamble as ‘‘systemic injustices’’) by disproportionately affecting indigenous peoples, communities of color, migrant communities, deindustrialized communities, depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with disabilities, and youth (referred to in this preamble as ‘‘frontline and vulnerable communities’’);"

Why? What can that possibly accomplish other than to alienate many of the people you'd need onboard to effect real change? 

What is that from?

[Snake Diggity 4678]

2 hours ago, TexasEd said:

I have not posted much since the election but I just I read through most of this and I think we're still missing the points, some are close but still not hitting the mark. 

80% of the People don't care about policies, it's theatre.  Who has the sound bites, how do they feel, and is there someone to blame.  You reach these people with messaging and viral SM hits, saying the same thing or flooding the zone with everything at the same time and then making things feel better through policies that matter.

Economy and national security:

• Economy - This was baked before Harris was in the campaign.  Biden fucked this up and thought the job was over on Jan 20, 2021.  The message should have been this is Trump's inflation from the beginning. Blame it on poor handling of COVID.  We knew it was coming but the Biden admin acted like everyone should know why it happened.  There was no messaging and then all the stupid "I did this" Biden stickers were everywhere.  No awareness. They missed out on messaging like making Child Tax credits permanent, paying for the infrastructure bill with corporate taxes and taxes on Billionaires - the ones that benefit the most should pay for the infrastructure. 
• Border policy - Waited until the issue was lost to submit a bill to congress.  Waited until 2024, the election year.  Wow.  See the Special rights bullet below for more.  We're being dishonest if we say there is nothing Biden could have done in 2021, 22 or 23.  He hung that issue around Harris' neck.  It could have been a "controlled number of legal work visas to keep inflation down, we're doing background checks, and jailing/deporting criminals" message opportunity.
• Ukraine - Should have been hitting with the same 80s rhetoric about us vs the commies and freedom vs dictators and the here are our hand me downs we've outgrown.  Most of us on Daily Texan board know this but all the average guy saw was 800 Million approved to send overseas.  We won the cold war.  Russia collapsed, why let them rebuild? Horrible PR
• Israel and Hamas - Wow, I got nothing.

Social Policies: I believe in people choosing their own way to be, live and identify the way they want.  Most people like this (Except the religious zealots of all stripes) as long as the equality of others don't infringe on their rights or put them at a disadvantage.  The perception of the majority of Americans is we've gone too far on accommodations into the special treatment zone and there is backlash against the gains on equality that groups have made.  The policy needs to be equal rights not special treatment.  When someone cuts you off in traffic, takes your parking spot or skips to the front of a line you get pissed.  It's unfair, it's a biological and chemical reaction.  Anytime you make things less fair you lose. Here are some examples:

• The messaging of special rights for some is what people heard, not equal rights for all. 
  • Immigration: Special rights for undocumented immigrants when some people came here with visas and documentation.  This is resentment from the legal group and you lose them.  The natural reaction is I had to stand in line, why do those assholes get to cut?
  • Trans athletes participating in gender assigned sports is perceived as special rights for a group to get an unfair advantage, not equality, just like saying some can take steroids but others can't.  I have sympathy for trans people but you can't give them a biological and hormonal advantage over non-trans athletes
  • This bled over into an overreaction on affirmative action and the DEI attacks.  Everything became DEI and it got a bad name because it is perceived as a way to promote based on identity instead of merit.  Sure organization benefit from diversity but diversity is not the end, diversity is a means to an end.
• Abortion - should have come to a decision on how long access should be available.  Being vague on the topic hurt them.  They went with the "Most people support access to abortion" and interpreted that as unfettered which opened them up to the full term abortion attack.  Set a period of time, 16 weeks, 20 weeks, I don't know but I'm sure there is plenty of medical and public opinion data out there.  Pick something reasonable and you shut down this attack.  This was probably less impactful than some other issues but it took a chunk of voters out of the D column.
• Parental rights positions opening up the door to the moronic argument of my son came home from school a girl. You have to acknowledge parental rights.  I don't care if it is birth control, hormone therapy or abortion.  Those things are over the line for most parents to give up control over their children.  I support access for minors with parental consent or consultation and that if the parent disagrees with what the child wants then it goes before a judge.  We outlaw minors buying tobacco, alcohol, sex work and from other activities because they are not equipped to make those decisions until they are more developed.  Why would we put life changing medical care in the category that they make a decision on their own. Create a support structure for the most vulnerable ones but start with parental rights as the first stop on the decision tree.

This is excellent and to me can be summarized as that Biden/Dems were both passive and stupid.  It’s too late to address the issue of Ukraine (should have been touted as akin to the German invasion of Poland) and the economy (should have been coined Trumpflation from the get).  But to translate into a way forward for all other topics:

1. Reverse the narrative on Border Security.  Support the wall, support deportations of illegals. 
 

2. Dismiss the narrative on trans issues.  Don’t bring up anything related to trans people, and when it comes up, immediately begin SHOUTING about wealth inequality and universal healthcare.

3. Define the narrative on abortion.  As you said, pick a reasonable period and define it and stand behind it.  And consistently loudly remind everyone that the other side’s period is zero weeks.

This board seems to be in total agreement (from both sides): ID politics is a loser.  The Dems’ winning issue (imho) is addressing wealth inequality.  They have to present that in an Entertaining way.  Character/integrity matters not.

Edited Tuesday at 06:45 PM by Snake Diggity

[BillyBadAss 196]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

What is that from?

Unless I'm mistaken, that was the green new deal bill: 

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres109/BILLS-116hres109ih.pdf

[wildcat09 29509]

Just now, Snake Diggity said:

This is excellent and to me can be summarized as that Biden/Dems were both passive and stupid.  It’s too late to address the issue of Ukraine (should have been touted as akin to the German invasion of Poland) and the economy (should have been coined Trumplation from the get).  But to translate into a way forward for all other topics:

1. Reverse the narrative on Border Security.  Support the wall, support deportations of illegals. 
 

2. Dismiss the narrative on trans issues.  Don’t bring up anything related to trans people, and when it comes up, immediately begin SHOUTING about wealth inequality and universal healthcare.

3. Define the narrative on abortion.  As you said, pick a reasonable period and define it and stand behind it.  And consistently loudly remind everyone that the other side’s period is zero weeks.

This board seems to be in total agreement (from both sides): ID politics is a loser.  The Dems’ winning issue (imho) is addressing wealth inequality.  They have to present that in an Entertaining way.  Character/integrity matters not.

Agree on dismissing it, not on the how (bolded).  That's basically what they've done the past several years. It makes them look weak. They need to counterattack on it. Say it's not a real issue and that Republicans are either trying to use it as a distraction or to justify policies that will allow them to sexually harass and assault more children than they already do (or both). Attack at all times, do not let the GOP establish the boundaries of the debate.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13629]

One huge flaw in the Biden admin was their inability to communicate because Biden was unable to communicate well. While I would rather have a president who can manage the govt well as opposed to just communicating, communicating is key to staying in power.

im not saying Biden was perfect in managing the govt, far from it. However his lack of talking to the US allowed others to set the narrative.

[LCHorn 2735]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

im not saying Biden was perfect in managing the govt, far from it. However his lack of talking to the US allowed others to set the narrative.

What’s worse, is he ended up forgoing building his VP’s profile by making her his proxy.  
 

As long as the Democratic brand is going to be toxically attached to the social cause de jure, mainstream Democrats will need to run against it (Obama and Clinton both did this successfully).  
 

Another way to look at this is that the Dems have been very successful pulling the country left on a host of social issues, but it’s embittered a significant part of the electorate that would otherwise find common cause with them, particularly on economic issues.  

[Ojo Rojo 2010]

On 12/7/2024 at 11:36 PM, MrBig said:

Dems have completely lost control of the narrative of EVERYTHING, including shit that we are extremely familiar with.

 

I don't know what you are supposed to do when the opponent just lobs lie after lie after lie:  "Dems want to implement sex changes in schools!" "Dems want to have live birth abortions!"  And on and on. You can only say, "No we don't; that's ridiculous." So many times.  Nowadays, anyone with a computer can create a headline or quote some nobody that the GOP can point to and say, "See!  Yes they do believe in these things!"  People of average intelligence should be able to see through this, but they don't because it's not what they want to hear.  They want to be on Team America and Team America's message is simple:  "Libs bad; own the Libs."  The Dem message, or the true one anyway, is nuanced and harder to understand without putting together several layers of facts.  Or at least two layers of things that can both be true:  "Yes, we support a woman's right to have an abortion.  No we do not agree that live birth abortions should be legal."  More and more, I think you have to distill everything, dumb it down to the max and then once you are in power implement the policies you really cared about in the first place.  Very, very few voters are going to know there is a difference between what you said and what you did.

[wildcat09 29509]

50 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I don't know what you are supposed to do when the opponent just lobs lie after lie after lie:  "Dems want to implement sex changes in schools!" "Dems want to have live birth abortions!"  And on and on. You can only say, "No we don't; that's ridiculous." So many times.  Nowadays, anyone with a computer can create a headline or quote some nobody that the GOP can point to and say, "See!  Yes they do believe in these things!"  People of average intelligence should be able to see through this, but they don't because it's not what they want to hear.  They want to be on Team America and Team America's message is simple:  "Libs bad; own the Libs."  The Dem message, or the true one anyway, is nuanced and harder to understand without putting together several layers of facts.  Or at least two layers of things that can both be true:  "Yes, we support a woman's right to have an abortion.  No we do not agree that live birth abortions should be legal."  More and more, I think you have to distill everything, dumb it down to the max and then once you are in power implement the policies you really cared about in the first place.  Very, very few voters are going to know there is a difference between what you said and what you did.

 

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Agree on dismissing it, not on the how (bolded).  That's basically what they've done the past several years. It makes them look weak. They need to counterattack on it. Say it's not a real issue and that Republicans are either trying to use it as a distraction or to justify policies that will allow them to sexually harass and assault more children than they already do (or both). Attack at all times, do not let the GOP establish the boundaries of the debate.

 

[Biff Tannen 45952]

4 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

1. Reverse the narrative on Border Security.  Support the wall, support deportations of illegals. 
 

What?  No. This is childish and stupid. 

[Snake Diggity 4678]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What?  No. This is childish and stupid. 

Dismissing shit because it’s childish and stupid is how the Dems keep losing.

[Biff Tannen 45952]

39 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Dismissing shit because it’s childish and stupid is how the Dems keep losing.

Well then I guess we should just adopt the Republican platform. Oh they don’t have one?  I meant just lie to people and fear monger about immigrants and trans people and post birth abortions. Seriously, is your proposal to just support bullshit lies?  If not, where do you draw the line?  
 

I would rather go down fighting for what is right than kowtow to a bunch of fascist oligarchs who take advantage of dumbfucks that don’t understand how anything works. We should try and inform people of the truth in simple ways, I agree with that. But acquiescing to fascist lies is not the way to go. Winning be damned. 

[Snake Diggity 4678]

9 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Well then I guess we should just adopt the Republican platform. Oh they don’t have one?  I meant just lie to people and fear monger about immigrants and trans people and post birth abortions. Seriously, is your proposal to just support bullshit lies?  If not, where do you draw the line?  
 

I would rather go down fighting for what is right than kowtow to a bunch of fascist oligarchs who take advantage of dumbfucks that don’t understand how anything works. We should try and inform people of the truth in simple ways, I agree with that. But acquiescing to fascist lies is not the way to go. Winning be damned. 

I understand where you’re coming from.  But if you won’t do what it takes to “take advantage of dumbfucks that don’t understand how anything works”, well, then you have already lost.

[TexasEd 8220]

You don't have to support the wall to implement steps that curb illegal immigration.

I thought this was appropriate here:

 

[linux 1723]

18 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Dismissing shit because it’s childish and stupid is how the Dems keep losing.

The Dems keep losing because of the jobs economy not immigration. DJT 4 years ago was below water on immigration this after his cages border wall and mass deportations.

Stop being neurotic. Fix poverty and win. That is it the trans issue the border issue the abortion issue all of these are fucking irrelevant give average joes real income increase and win elections

[Fudge Nuggets 19357]

1 hour ago, linux said:

Fix poverty and win.

Easy peasy, right?

[linux 1723]

Just now, Fudge Nuggets said:

Easy peasy, right?

Short term yes, long term no.

The problem there will not be a long term, barring dementia, lame duck, manipulated control etc.

We literally live in a world where a candidate that staged a coup is getting back into the oval office, and democrats were "too good" aka too high horse to do handouts. Fucking maddening. Next thing you know they will run an empty chair because they are "too good!" and getting power is beneath them.

[Ojo Rojo 2010]

19 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Well then I guess we should just adopt the Republican platform. Oh they don’t have one?  I meant just lie to people and fear monger about immigrants and trans people and post birth abortions. Seriously, is your proposal to just support bullshit lies?  If not, where do you draw the line?  
 

I would rather go down fighting for what is right than kowtow to a bunch of fascist oligarchs who take advantage of dumbfucks that don’t understand how anything works. We should try and inform people of the truth in simple ways, I agree with that. But acquiescing to fascist lies is not the way to go. Winning be damned. 

You are still operating as if the world made sense, people were rational and things weren't totally fucked up. 

[Ojo Rojo 2010]

2 hours ago, linux said:

The Dems keep losing because of the jobs economy not immigration. DJT 4 years ago was below water on immigration this after his cages border wall and mass deportations.

Stop being neurotic. Fix poverty and win. That is it the trans issue the border issue the abortion issue all of these are fucking irrelevant give average joes real income increase and win elections

No, no, no, no, no, fuck no.  Don't you get it?  You don't have to actually do shit.  All you have to do is say you are going to improve the economic fates of the middle class and poor by forcing the billionaires and corporations to pay their fair share of taxes.  Scream it into the microphone.  And "fixing poverty?"  Sheeeit.  Those in actual poverty don't vote compared to higher income earners.  So it would be a total waste, politically, to devote the resources there.