Tracking Trump Promises

[Balcones 406]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

They can have a voice, particularly as parents.  But if they lack formal education they cannot be dictating aspects of formal education they don't comprehend.

Education has a societal component that is broader than the community it "serves" 

Formal education? Like a degree in Agriculture, Seminary, or vocational school?

 

[Brew 3045]

36 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Education should be pushed to the lowest levels. Let the communities be the primary decision makes of how to educate.

Who do you think sets curriculum and educational objectives? What do you think the DoE actually does?

[Balcones 406]

1 minute ago, Brew said:

Who do you think sets curriculum and educational objectives? What do you think the DoE actually does?

They don’t do shit! That’s why it needs to be wound down. States, local school districts, etc… is where this should reside.

[Wally Fairway 5517]

24 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Like Joe Biden? Before even looking at merits, education, experience, background, etc… he eliminates the vast majority of choices for VP or Supreme Court. Is this what you mean? 

sure that is wrong too, but it cuts both ways. don't act like the MAGA crowd is inclusive.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

5 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Formal education? Like a degree in Agriculture, Seminary, or vocational school?

 

A broad base of educated and uneducated people should inform education policy.  If you have a locality that lacks a broad base, local education will be appropriate only for that locality.  And, if like most undereducated localities, it's small and economically suffering, you just prolong that.  You absolutely need views from outside a locality.

[Brew 3045]

2 minutes ago, Balcones said:

They don’t do shit! That’s why it needs to be wound down. States, local school districts, etc… is where this should reside.

States and school districts are where the “decision of how to educate” resides. Again, what specifically do you disagree with that the DoE oversees now that your original premise doesn’t hold? Do you even know what they do, why they do it, and that we are literally the only country with decentralized education already?

[Pancho 44434]

The DoE doesn’t dictate curriculum nationwide, but it does have a genuine purpose. 

It’s like you people speak about shit when you have no idea how it works. 

[workswithseed 2033]

20 minutes ago, G650 said:

Not sure that's applicable to US public education needs

People are saying that after the creation of department of education we fell to 29th in the world. Why would that take place? 

Edited Sunday at 06:16 PM by workswithseed

[Brew 3045]

6 minutes ago, Pancho said:

The DoE doesn’t dictate curriculum nationwide, but it does have a genuine purpose. 

It’s like you people speak about shit when you have no idea how it works. 

One of its core tenets is prohibiting discrimination and providing equal opportunities in education. You lose most of the Trump supporters because of that. Let’s not worry about Title 1 funding and other funding that the government actually requires audits of to determine it is spent appropriately, Pell grants, disability education, research, etc. Those don’t matter, we prefer to discriminate.

On your second thought, welcome to everyone getting involved in politics without putting in the time to understand how things work. Twitter said, so it must be true.

Edited Sunday at 06:18 PM by Brew

[Brew 3045]

Just now, workswithseed said:

People are saying that after the creation of public education we fell to 29th in the world. Why would that take place? 

See “only country with decentralized education” and think about the ramifications of that. I am curious what data you are using other than “people are saying” to base your opinion. 

[workswithseed 2033]

14 minutes ago, Brew said:

See “only country with decentralized education” and think about the ramifications of that. I am curious what data you are using other than “people are saying” to base your opinion. 

It's been apparently been asked 4 years ago on Reddit too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/jeqykh/is_it_true_that_the_us_education_system_was_1_in/?rdt=50809

 

Seems like there's more hands in pot, and we're not the only ones to be decentralized, or trying to.

Edited Sunday at 06:32 PM by workswithseed

[TwiceHorn 31240]

16 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

People are saying that after the creation of department of education we fell to 29th in the world. Why would that take place? 

That is correlation, not causation.

Perhaps DOE was created because we were slipping.

[G650 14074]

21 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

People are saying that after the creation of department of education we fell to 29th in the world. Why would that take place? 

Unless I missed something, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about? The DOE doesn't set curricula.

[Balcones 406]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

Unless I missed something, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about? The DOE doesn't set curricula.

People like TwiceHorn think that they do. He doesn’t think state or local districts can do it because they have too many welders, migrants or farmers and not enough people with BAs in Sanskrit or African American Studies.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

8 minutes ago, Balcones said:

People like TwiceHorn think that they do. He doesn’t think state or local districts can do it because they have too many welders, migrants or farmers and not enough people with BAs in Sanskrit or African American Studies.

That's not what I said.  I responded to this:

Education should be pushed to the lowest levels. Let the communities be the primary decision makes of how to educate.

I did not indicate state or federal, just someone other than the community.  The stupid part was hyperbole.  But there are communities that are essentially failed for a variety of reasons and shouldn't be the primary decision makers of how to educate.  

 

A holder of a degree in Sanskrit or AA studies at least knows what formal education is about.  Cletus the welder who's a 10th grade dropout may have an IQ of 150, but he doesn't know how to sign up for the SAT or apply to college, or how to succeed once there.  Nor does he have any idea what courses one must take to get admitted to the state university for example.  He might have great ideas about how to run the shop classes.

Edited Sunday at 06:50 PM by TwiceHorn

[Brew 3045]

9 minutes ago, Balcones said:

People like TwiceHorn think that they do. He doesn’t think state or local districts can do it because they have too many welders, migrants or farmers and not enough people with BAs in Sanskrit or African American Studies.

I so enjoy the deflect/distract method of discussing politics and political views. There have been numerous things posted above that you could respond to about your specific issues with the DoE and perceived lack of understanding on what they do. Either you have some point that isn’t clear or you’re parroting information found elsewhere with no way to discuss it.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's not what I said (but you knew that).  I responded to this:

Education should be pushed to the lowest levels. Let the communities be the primary decision makes of how to educate.

 

I did not indicate state or federal, just someone other than the community.  The stupid part was hyperbole.  But there are communities that are essentially failed for a variety of reasons and shouldn't be the primary decision makers of how to educate.  

 

A holder of a degree in Sanskrit or AA studies at least knows what formal education is about.  Cletus the welder who's a 10th grade dropout may have an IQ of 150, but he doesn't know how to sign up for the SAT or apply to college, or how to succeed once there.  Nor does he have any idea what courses one must take to get admitted to the state university for example.  He might have great ideas about how to run the shop classes.

Additionally, by saying "should," you implied that education policy should be more local than it is already, being primarily dictated at the State and district level.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:10 PM by TwiceHorn

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

2 hours ago, Balcones said:

Education should be pushed to the lowest levels. Let the communities be the primary decision makes of how to educate.

Holy shit. You don't know my neighbors. 

[Goofyboy 3194]

Holy shit. You don't know my neighbors. 

Same. They would be reading the Bible everyday and interpreting it wrong. Science would be gone. Houston has already gotten rid of libraries… I’m sure Fort Bend would like to. Etc etc

[mchookem 16184]

20 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Holy shit. You don't know my neighbors. 

 

5 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Same. They would be reading the Bible everyday and interpreting it wrong. Science would be gone. Houston has already gotten rid of libraries… I’m sure Fort Bend would like to. Etc etc

ummm...i have some news for you fellas...

 

[956 Worldwide 34410]

Is this where we note the creation of an “Iron Dome” for the United States?  A nearly impossible and unneeded boondoggle that will bloat the Pentagon budget while also divert badly needed funding to make the force more lethal and capable of fighting any likely future war? 
 

But there’s this:

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-is-already-calling-in-favors-with-trump-1851693687 

Quote

Even before Donald J. Trump was re-elected, his best-known backer, Elon Musk, had come to him with a request for his presidential transition.

He wanted Mr. Trump to hire some employees from Mr. Musk’s rocket company, SpaceX, as top government officials — including at the Defense Department, according to two people briefed on the calls.

That request, which would seed SpaceX employees into an agency that is one of its biggest customers, is a sign of the benefits that Mr. Musk may reap after investing more than $100 million in Mr. Trump’s campaign, pushing out a near-constant stream of pro-Trump material on his social media platform, X, and making public appearances on the candidate’s behalf across the hard-fought state of Pennsylvania.

The outreach regarding the SpaceX employees, which hasn’t been reported, shows the extent to which Mr. Musk wants to fill a potential Trump administration with his closest confidants even as his billions of dollars in government contracts pose a conflict to any government role.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52336]

Lots of promises that require more money, but also the promise of the budget being slashed by a third.  Not the deficit, the whole budget (correct?).  So what will be cut to cover all of this new spending on iron domes and deportations and even more dominant military while cutting the overall budget by a third?

[Balcones 406]

3 hours ago, Brew said:

I so enjoy the deflect/distract method of discussing politics and political views. There have been numerous things posted above that you could respond to about your specific issues with the DoE and perceived lack of understanding on what they do. Either you have some point that isn’t clear or you’re parroting information found elsewhere with no way to discuss it.

They don’t do anything. I wrote that a few posts up.

 

[Balcones 406]

2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Same. They would be reading the Bible everyday and interpreting it wrong. Science would be gone. Houston has already gotten rid of libraries… I’m sure Fort Bend would like to. Etc etc

No one in Houston can create an education curriculum! Holy shit!

[TwiceHorn 31240]

4 minutes ago, Balcones said:

No one in Houston can create an education curriculum! Holy shit!

Not what he said, either.  But, again, you knew that.

And, again, with your original post, you said "communities," which also implies lower than district level.

 

[Balcones 406]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Not what he said, either.  But, again, you knew that.

It’s exactly what he said. 
 

-Education should be pushed to community.

-You don’t know my neighbors.

-Same. Houston has already closed all libraries.
 

-Although smaller the Houston, but still filled with 100000 college educated people, Fort Bend cannot do it either.

I stopped short of suggesting he only thinks Washington DC has “smart enough” people but I think most know that is what he is thinking.

 

[tx 3 putt 76294]

[Texas Jeff 1932]

5 hours ago, Balcones said:

They don’t do shit! That’s why it needs to be wound down. States, local school districts, etc… is where this should reside.

They spend about $200 billion per year.  Mostly they give grants to undergraduates and local school districts, with an emphasis on those with financial need or from low income households.

The big ticket items are Pell Grants, student loans, Title 1 funding, and special education.

A Pell Grant is funding to help college undergrads with financial need earn an undergraduate degree.

Title 1 funding is extra funding to schools with 40% of students from low-income households.  The money is given to local school districts, and the local school districts spend it.

The money they distribute does help states and local school districts and, in theory, helps to level the opportunities within our country.

What would you replace it with?  Nothing?  Or something different?

[956 Worldwide 34410]

53 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

They spend about $200 billion per year.  Mostly they give grants to undergraduates and local school districts, with an emphasis on those with financial need or from low income households.

The big ticket items are Pell Grants, student loans, Title 1 funding, and special education.

A Pell Grant is funding to help college undergrads with financial need earn an undergraduate degree.

Title 1 funding is extra funding to schools with 40% of students from low-income households.  The money is given to local school districts, and the local school districts spend it.

The money they distribute does help states and local school districts and, in theory, helps to level the opportunities within our country.

What would you replace it with?  Nothing?  Or something different?

Maybe wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen.  It’s time to remind these rural communities why their great-grandparents all voted for FDR.  If they want to vote for stupid ass culture warrior shit, let them have their shitty, underfunded schools.

Filibustering ethanol subsidies or rural health programs would be a good place to start. 

[Goofyboy 3194]

It’s exactly what he said. 
 
-Education should be pushed to community.
-You don’t know my neighbors.
-Same. Houston has already closed all libraries.
 
-Although smaller the Houston, but still filled with 100000 college educated people, Fort Bend cannot do it either.
I stopped short of suggesting he only thinks Washington DC has “smart enough” people but I think most know that is what he is thinking.
 

Here’s what I’m actually thinking because I lived it:

Anything that allows districts to cut Special Education more and more and get Special Education kids out of the regular classroom - they will do it. Fort Bend ISD’s track record with Special Education is trash. You want it left to the community, yet I know the community only gives lip service to caring about all kids. They hate when special needs kids disrupt the school (at least in FBISD). So, no, leaving everything to the community level is not reasonable.

Also - leaving everything to the state (especially in Texas) is not reasonable. State funding for Special Education is being cut. Hell - vouchers are going to gut public education.

I get your sentiment. I partially agree with you - teachers should be able to make and adjust curriculum. Districts and the state should also have guidelines / guarantees for FAPE.

[Brew 3045]

2 hours ago, Balcones said:

It’s exactly what he said. 
 

-Education should be pushed to community.

-You don’t know my neighbors.

-Same. Houston has already closed all libraries.
 

-Although smaller the Houston, but still filled with 100000 college educated people, Fort Bend cannot do it either.

I stopped short of suggesting he only thinks Washington DC has “smart enough” people but I think most know that is what he is thinking.

 

It ALREADY is, have you not been paying attention? Local districts and state education departments set curriculum and the local education. The feds DO NOT deal with curriculum. They deal with the things that have been mentioned multiple times in this thread. Quit going on about something that doesn’t happen.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2380]

1 hour ago, Texas Jeff said:

What would you replace it with?  Nothing?  Or something different?

Higher property Taxes!!!   Yay us. 

[bolverk 29394]

2 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Higher property Taxes!!!   Yay us. 

The big idea floating around among conservative circles that I've heard is to have a national sales tax to replace federal income taxes and for Texas to raise the state's sales tax rate on top of that in a bid to eliminate property taxes.

Talk about sticker shock people would have when they go buy that carton of eggs.

[Balcones 406]

23 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Here’s what I’m actually thinking because I lived it:

Anything that allows districts to cut Special Education more and more and get Special Education kids out of the regular classroom - they will do it. Fort Bend ISD’s track record with Special Education is trash. You want it left to the community, yet I know the community only gives lip service to caring about all kids. They hate when special needs kids disrupt the school (at least in FBISD). So, no, leaving everything to the community level is not reasonable.

Also - leaving everything to the state (especially in Texas) is not reasonable. State funding for Special Education is being cut. Hell - vouchers are going to gut public education.

I get your sentiment. I partially agree with you - teachers should be able to make and adjust curriculum. Districts and the state should also have guidelines / guarantees for FAPE.

Great point. Washington DC will fix this for you. Send a letter to Biden and let him know. He will send more money and resources this week.

[Balcones 406]

19 minutes ago, Brew said:

It ALREADY is, have you not been paying attention? Local districts and state education departments set curriculum and the local education. The feds DO NOT deal with curriculum. They deal with the things that have been mentioned multiple times in this thread. Quit going on about something that doesn’t happen.

I KNOW!!! IM ALL FOR LOCAL COMMUNITIES RUNNING EDUCATION. ITS WHY I DONT THINK WE NEED A DOE. THEY DONT DO SHIT!

[Incredulity 11541]

7 minutes ago, Balcones said:

WHY I DONT THINK WE NEED A DOE. THEY DONT DO SHIT!

Ohhh they do shit.  They don’t set curriculum, but they demand and coerce compliance with administration priorities under both threat of sanction and withdrawal of federal funds.

[Balcones 406]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Ohhh they do shit.  They don’t set curriculum, but they demand and coerce compliance with administration priorities under both threat of sanction and withdrawal of federal funds.

Ok. Like what 4% of the Texas education budget? We need an entire Cabinet level department for that?  THEY DONT DO SHIT!

[mchookem 16184]

well we're all gonna find out together, one way or another

 

[Pato del Muerto 52336]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

The big idea floating around among conservative circles that I've heard is to have a national sales tax to replace federal income taxes and for Texas to raise the state's sales tax rate on top of that in a bid to eliminate property taxes.

Talk about sticker shock people would have when they go buy that carton of eggs.

Yeah im sure they sounds great to the family that buys a dozen eggs a week and makes a couple hundred thousand dollars and lives in a half million dollar home. They’d pay the same as the family that makes 55 thousand a year and lives in an apartment and also buys a dozen eggs a week. But I’m sure the lower costs their complex pays in property taxes means they’ll lower rents to pass the savings on to their tenants, right?

[Ag with kids 581]

On 11/9/2024 at 4:57 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Airtight, like you at a meth party, amirite?

I do have a question here.

The arrow points at when Biden assumed office.  While the rate of encounters increased after the low point of covid, it had basically stabilized prior to the election.  Then, immediately after Biden assumed office the migrant encounters doubled in the first 6 months.

How does that graph show that his point was wrong?

[Brew 3045]

1 hour ago, Balcones said:

I KNOW!!! IM ALL FOR LOCAL COMMUNITIES RUNNING EDUCATION. ITS WHY I DONT THINK WE NEED A DOE. THEY DONT DO SHIT!

Do you though, because every post above you talk about pushing community education and disbanding DOE. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Again, specifically what’s your issue with TexasJeff and Goofyboy’s list of things the DOE does since you know they don’t deal with curriculum?

Hell, if we’re disbanding entire Department’s, I would think you would at least have some specific relevant complaints.

Edited Monday at 03:19 AM by Brew

[TwiceHorn 31240]

10 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I do have a question here.

The arrow points at when Biden assumed office.  While the rate of encounters increased after the low point of covid, it had basically stabilized prior to the election.  Then, immediately after Biden assumed office the migrant encounters doubled in the first 6 months.

How does that graph show that his point was wrong?

His quote was "Trump sealed the border."  That's an impossibility in the first place.

He didn't make any point about relative numbers between the two administrations, he said "Trump sealed the border."

That's the kind of thinking that leads to useless and expensive border walls.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

1 minute ago, Brew said:

Do you though, because every post above you talk about pushing community education and disbanding DOE? Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Again, specifically what me your issue with TexasJeff and Goofyboy’s list of things the DOE does since you know they don’t deal with curriculum?

He tries to make a point, gets factually pantsed, and shifts around.

He could have started with DOE doesn't do anything, it should be dissolved.

But that's not where he started.

 

[Brew 3045]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Ohhh they do shit.  They don’t set curriculum, but they demand and coerce compliance with administration priorities under both threat of sanction and withdrawal of federal funds.

I would like to hear more about this. I grew up doing single audit work on school districts and other governmental entities. Last time I was heavily involved, the feds primarily provided Title 1, IDEA funds, and USDA funds on need based grant funding. They have been rolling out ARPA funds the last few years related to Covid that have pretty specific spending requirements also. 

What is the DOE coercing compliance with that you see as a problem and which grant funding program is it coming through? Feel free to be specific. I’ll be happy to pull the audit requirements for the grant for you to see what it is for.

Edited Monday at 03:27 AM by Brew

[Brew 3045]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

The big idea floating around among conservative circles that I've heard is to have a national sales tax to replace federal income taxes and for Texas to raise the state's sales tax rate on top of that in a bid to eliminate property taxes.

Talk about sticker shock people would have when they go buy that carton of eggs.

Federal income tax is not getting replaced, it’s a waste of time to even discuss it.

[Balcones 406]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's a decent argument for local control, within a certain framework.

But small, stupid communities full of uneducated people should not be making curriculum decisions.

You are literally the first person to talk about curriculum. Its because you think the DOE writes it. 
 

 

[TwiceHorn 31240]

12 minutes ago, Brew said:

I would like to hear more about this. I grew up doing single audit work on school districts and other governmental entities. Last time I was heavily involved, the feds primarily provided Title 1, IDEA funds, and USDA funds on need based grant funding. They have been rolling out ARPA funds the last few years related to Covid that have pretty specific spending requirements also. 

What is the DOE coercing compliance with that you see as a problem and which grant funding program is it coming through? Feel free to be specific. I’ll be happy to pull the audit requirements for the grant for you to see what it is for.

If there is something characterized as racial or sex discrimination going on in the district or its schools, DOE is the first line of enforcement of the civil rights laws that apply to students. Local example  https://www.yahoo.com/news/department-education-finds-southlake-carroll-032317996.html

It's not surprising you're unfamiliar with this, because it is pretty rare.  But will be less so while Moms for Liberty exercise their authority.

Republicans have been opposed to DoE since its inception, for a variety of ostensible reasons.

Edited Monday at 03:44 AM by TwiceHorn

[Ag with kids 581]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

His quote was "Trump sealed the border."  That's an impossibility in the first place.

He didn't make any point about relative numbers between the two administrations, he said "Trump sealed the border."

That's the kind of thinking that leads to useless and expensive border walls.

So, semantics is the issue?

Yes, I get there was hyperbole.

But, there's a whole lot of that on this thread.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

5 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

So, semantics is the issue?

Yes, I get there was hyperbole.

But, there's a whole lot of that on this thread.

Icono is super hyperbolic.  He attributed something to Trump that wasn't true.  That's a symptom of his worship.  He's crazy as a shithouse rat.

 

[Anastasis 23390]

RFK might shut down chilis and it’s got posters here understandably shook.