The single most important thing that has to change

[Rex Kramer 1442]

3 hours ago, RabidM said:

Russia dropping 10s of millions of dollars for the content of their choice had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.  Tim Poole went from making like $500 a week to $300k a month with Russian money.  FFS, we are under literal Russian attack.

That is simply not why “we” lost. It is smugness, self-importance and self aggrandizement of the American left. 

You running around blathering about the Russians, instead of having a modicum of self awareness, ALLOWS the Russians to win. The left gives ample alienation material, and if not for that, Trump loses in a landslide against literally anyone. Instead, America voted in a mandate for an evil person in an act expressly against the left because of the way it acts. 

Edited November 8 by Rex Kramer

[quigley 1563]

3 hours ago, linux said:

The absolute saddest part of all is that Joe Rogan is not that bad, yes I get he says crazy stupid shit, but he corrected Trump 3 times about Kamala not showing up, and actually praised her debate performance. Do you think she gets that treatment from Sean Hannity? who we tolerated for decades?

Part of getting an influencer for young men is getting off our high horse, our purity culture, and doing Joe Rogan interviews. We are fucked if we keep being the high horse, only the purest of characters allowed. Tim Waltz is never going to be that guy feminists, he needs the edge.

Also bring back Al Franken my fucking god I swear we decapitated him only to get a woman senator appointed in his place, identity politics is evil because it hurts us as a party.

Hannity is an idiot. Nobody tolerated him.

Agree Dems need elevate people who can go anywhere and talk with anyone. 

Love Al Franken and wished he would've run vs Trump in 2016. Al would've killed him with laughter. If you listen to him now though, he is too old.

2 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

Maybe a smarter electorate? 

 

 A smarter electorate is a longterm goal with better civics education and training kids to identify reliable sources of information and corroborate information before accepting it as fact.

More immediately and always, Dems have to show they're work. They have to have the discipline to explain why something's bad and how the badness is directly related to the person's life.

 

50 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

This sounds like he's making an excuse for a bad policy move.

 

50 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

The liberal talking heads that aren't on MSM are just completely insufferable. The ones on MSM, outside of like the Daily Show or John Oliver, aren't good, either, but most of the liberal content I come across on YouTube is pure garbage, even if I agree with it. Most of it seems to be someone showing someone else's video and breaking down how they got owned or something. Like I need some asshole talking into my ear about how the mean conservative just got embarrassed. 

But then I also really don't get conservative media. Hannity is just an asshole, and Mark Levin does nothing but go on a whiny rant for his entire show, leaving me embarrassed for him after a few minutes. I've honestly never watched any Candace Owens or Ben Shapiro content, other than clips of when they say something completely insane.

I listen to a lot of podcasts and like pod saves america and the bulwark. The revanchist commentators you listed are disinformation fountains who provide negative value. The WSJ opinion page used to have a podcast but they went off the deep end too in about 2019.

[David Dennison 19131]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

That is simply not why “we” lost. It is smugness, self-importance and self aggrandizement of the American left. 

You running around blathering about the Russians instead of myself awareness ALLOWS the Russians to win. The left gives ample alienation material and if not for that, Trump would’ve been beat in a landslide by literally anyone. Instead, America voted in a mandate for an evil person in an act against the left. 

Inflation guaranteed that the Democrats were going to lose this election no matter what.

But they do need to ease up on the coastal snobbishness.

[quigley 1563]

3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That is simply not why “we” lost. It is smugness, self-importance and self aggrandizement of the American left. 

You running around blathering about the Russians, instead of having a modicum of self awareness, ALLOWS the Russians to win. The left gives ample alienation material, and if not for that, Trump loses in a landslide against literally anyone. Instead, America voted in a mandate for an evil person in an act expressly against the left because of the way it acts. 

Harris's campaign spent a billion dollars or something. Free Fox advertising for Trump plus he own campaign's spending will add up to a comparable amount. The Russians suck and probably did some stuff. But with the grossness of Trump and his campaign, what else could the Russians do?

Where do you get your information?

[Rex Kramer 1442]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Inflation guaranteed that the Democrats were going to lose this election no matter what.

But they do need to ease up on the coastal snobbishness.

 No doubt. I think it was inflation 1, and you people are high horsing the whole country, 2. And it’s not merely coastal. It’s infected every communicative platform. Popular TV shows, late night shows, any socials, certainly Cloak Room. People get extremely fatigued with being high horsed in belittling fashion. Particularly when they’re getting wallet whipped. 

[Hank Kingsley 21135]

4 hours ago, Pancho said:

Someone brought up something on twitter the other day that I thought was interesting:

The reason the radical right has all of their online echo chambers on lock is because they are being funded by the tech bros. The tech bros like the radical right because, well, tax breaks and more money for them. 

Also, a lot of Tech and AI is a scam. They know the right audience to buy their bullshit. 

 

 

[Rex Kramer 1442]

Just now, quigley said:

Harris's campaign spent a billion dollars or something. Free Fox advertising for Trump plus he own campaign's spending will add up to a comparable amount. The Russians suck and probably did some stuff. But with the grossness of Trump and his campaign, what else could the Russians do?

Where do you get your information?

A variety of sources.  None mainstream. I never watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC.  Only “news” channel is constantly watching daytime CNBC. I voted for the Dem, for the first time in my life, this election. Because I can get past the evilness and buffoonery of him. 

[quigley 1563]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Inflation guaranteed that the Democrats were going to lose this election no matter what.

But they do need to ease up on the coastal snobbishness.

@Rex Kramer

Please explain what you mean by smug/snobbish because I didn't get that sense from the Harris campaign.

But I agree that she coded as "smug" and "California liberal." She ran a left wing campaign in 2020, and she didn't directly rebut those assertions.

[Rex Kramer 1442]

Just now, quigley said:

@Rex Kramer

Please explain what you mean by smug/snobbish because I didn't get that sense from the Harris campaign.

But I agree that she coded as "smug" and "California liberal." She ran a left wing campaign in 2020, and she didn't directly rebut those assertions.

I thought she was ok. But she seemingly was scared to be overexposed. That didn’t play well. I’m talking about the media and liberals belittling people on the right. It’s exceedingly pervasive. 

[quigley 1563]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

A variety of sources.  None mainstream. I never watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC.  Only “news” channel is constantly watching daytime CNBC. I voted for the Dem, for the first time in my life, this election. Because I can get past the evilness and buffoonery of him. 

What are the none-mainstream sources? I'm asking because I'm curious about your ability to see things vs some of the other posters here.

I'm definitely left-wing/progressive. I read the NYT online and then get world news from the BBC, Guardian. For a perspective on Asia. I skim the South China Morning Post (which has changed, I know). I listen to a variety of podcasts on history, which inherently have a political lens.

[David Dennison 19131]

4 minutes ago, quigley said:

@Rex Kramer

Please explain what you mean by smug/snobbish because I didn't get that sense from the Harris campaign.

But I agree that she coded as "smug" and "California liberal." She ran a left wing campaign in 2020, and she didn't directly rebut those assertions.

A lot of it has to do with the general attitude that comes with catering to the sensibilities considered sacrosanct by college educated coastal elites. Playing to the MSNBC crowd. Talking down to people. It's off putting to a lot of voters who actually like Democratic policies. A lot of those voters stayed home.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

4 hours ago, Pancho said:

There is dem arrogance, sure. That isn’t the major issue.

I’ll research it after my flight, but there was someone did a focus group on dem policies and they worded it in a way to make it seem like they were policies coming from the radical republican party. Those in the group loved the policies and were really excited about them. The whole time, thy were policies the Dems were proposing or were already doing. 

 

This is 100% a misinformation/disinformation election. 

 

 

 

 

Manipulative questions designed to get a desired result. 
 

1. Remove the caveat “all time highs”, and they are correct, violent crime is up.
 

2. Change “over the last year” to the “last 4 years” and they are correct again.

5+% Biden vs 1.9% Trump (4 yr avg)

3. What do the numbers look like when adjusted for the 4 years of inflation? IDK

4.Change ” over the last few months” to “last 4 years” and again, they are correct. 

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Oldest game in the book. Great example to show how the media manipulates to imply these people are stupid/uniformed.

Edited November 8 by ChickenSandwich

[Incredulity 11716]

51 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

legitimate attempt at dispelling disinformation

[Hank_Hill 19001]

It’s quite a conundrum because this election and the next 4 years will objectively show they deserve belittling but agreed Dems can’t win if it continues from the party itself. 

[Biff Tannen 45777]

35 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You running around blathering about the Russians, instead of having a modicum of self awareness, ALLOWS the Russians to win.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect. 

[quigley 1563]

2 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

It’s quite a conundrum because this election and the next 4 years will objectively show they deserve belittling but agreed Dems can’t win if it continues from the party itself. 

Name calling and talking down to people doesn't win votes.

I think you're a doctor (apologizes if mistaken). A doctor knows more about diseases than the nurses/technicians they work with, and those nurses/techs must want to learn from you.

But if you explain your understanding of illness to those around you with condescension, you aren't going to be asked for explanations again.

[Biff Tannen 45777]

34 minutes ago, quigley said:

I listen to a lot of podcasts and like pod saves america and the bulwark.

Pod Save America is a great source of not only logical and factual policy, but also breaks down really well how the government actually works and what matters. 

[linux 1658]

5 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

It’s quite a conundrum because this election and the next 4 years will objectively show they deserve belittling but agreed Dems can’t win if it continues from the party itself. 

It will require everyone to tell democrats to get off their high horse,  Everybody is clapping how "they respect the result of the election!" yeah the orange man doesn't and never will, and making yourself feel better after you lose is why we are in this death hole. It's the simplest step possible, stop patting yourself in the back, it is a start.

[Biff Tannen 45777]

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

You’re a moron

[quigley 1563]

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

A lot of it has to do with the general attitude that comes with catering to the sensibilities considered sacrosanct by college educated coastal elites. Playing to the MSNBC crowd. Talking down to people. It's off putting to a lot of voters who actually like Democratic policies. A lot of those voters stayed home.

Certainly those voters stayed home. But was the Harris campaign arrogant (I'm ready to hear how they were)? Or are the Dem surrogates arrogant? Or is it just general perception fed by the Fox/right wing beast?

[linux 1658]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Pod Save America is a great source of not only logical and factual policy, but also breaks down really well how the government actually works and what matters. 

The problem is that they think of themseleves as the obama wing of the party, we need to get rid of the past, all of it, and it includes big O. They all failed us so hard, Obama came out fighting vs Fox News and quickly was told to give up, we needed to go full out vs disinformation back then, now it is too late propaganda rules supreme.

Edited November 9 by linux

[Pancho 45524]

What media members were belittling people on the right? 

CNN is leaning to the right at this moment and has been for the last year or so.

MSNBC is just MSNBC

Fox is for the radical right already.

 

So specifically who in media was doing that? Why isn’t belittling people on the left by the radical right wing media getting any blame? 

[Goredho 17516]

41 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That is simply not why “we” lost. It is smugness, self-importance and self aggrandizement of the American left. 

You running around blathering about the Russians, instead of having a modicum of self awareness, ALLOWS the Russians to win. The left gives ample alienation material, and if not for that, Trump loses in a landslide against literally anyone. Instead, America voted in a mandate for an evil person in an act expressly against the left because of the way it acts. 

But we said they could eat cake!  I don't understand?

[Pancho 45524]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Pod Save America is a great source of not only logical and factual policy, but also breaks down really well how the government actually works and what matters. 

They are.

They are also very condescending and douchy.

[Incredulity 11716]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You’re a moron

Let’s try a little thought experiment.

 How high in your asshole would your panties be if Trump was about to take the reigns of the, “Disinformation Governance Board”?  Throat, eyeballs or hairline?

[linux 1658]

2 minutes ago, quigley said:

Certainly those voters stayed home. But was the Harris campaign arrogant (I'm ready to hear how they were)? Or are the Dem surrogates arrogant? Or is it just general perception fed by the Fox/right wing beast?

It is an internal arrogance that them being better is superior to winning. 

 

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

What media members were belittling people on the right? 

CNN is leaning to the right at this moment and has been for the last year or so.

MSNBC is just MSNBC

Fox is for the radical right already.

 

So specifically who in media was doing that? Why isn’t belittling people on the left by the radical right wing media getting any blame? 

Because we are losing, my anger with the media comes from the fact that they shackle us, we want do to campaign on universal handouts? they would do anything in their power to say how that is a bad idea, we won't implement UBI and splat we lose.

[Pancho 45524]

In the post-mortem, Dems need to ask why did nearly all of the swing state Dem senators win while Harris didn’t?

 

Also of note, Harris got more votes in Wisconsin this year than Biden did in 2020. She was just 175,000 blue wall votes from winning.

[quigley 1563]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Pod Save America is a great source of not only logical and factual policy, but also breaks down really well how the government actually works and what matters. 

I know someone who used to brief Tommy Vietor when he was in the WH (this guy was military stationed in at the Pentagon). Says Tommy is a smart, good dude.

[quigley 1563]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

They are.

They are also very condescending and douchy.

Thank you for this (seriously). I don't find them condescending and douchy. So that means I probably am.

[Incredulity 11716]

Just now, quigley said:

Thank you for this (seriously). I don't find them condescending and douchy. So that means I probably am.

The road to recovery starts with recognizing you have a problem. 
 

good luck on your journey 

[linux 1658]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

In the post-mortem, Dems need to ask why did nearly all of the swing state Dem senators win while Harris didn’t?

 

Also of note, Harris got more votes in Wisconsin this year than Biden did in 2020. She was just 175,000 blue wall votes from wining.

I don't think the election was that much of a blowout, there are dangerous trends overall but EC wise it was not impossible she might have won had the election been 5 weeks ago, something happened back then and I am despotent about it, that still required a perfect election with perfect timing so difficult if not impossible ask, that said assuming free elections survive we need populist candidates that can unshackle us from running perfect elections, do you think Bernie Sanders would have suffered from too old accusations? no only when we let the high horse neurotic wing of the party have a voice we lose.

[quigley 1563]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Let’s try a little thought experiment.

 How high in your asshole would your panties be if Trump was about to take the reigns of the, “Disinformation Governance Board”?  Throat, eyeballs or hairline?

You're right. My hackles would be raised if Trump started a "Disinformation Governance Board."

But that would be because HE AND THOSE AROUND HIM ACKNOWLEDGE HE LIES ALL THE TIME.

[Hank_Hill 19001]

15 minutes ago, quigley said:

Name calling and talking down to people doesn't win votes.

I think you're a doctor (apologizes if mistaken). A doctor knows more about diseases than the nurses/technicians they work with, and those nurses/techs must want to learn from you.

But if you explain your understanding of illness to those around you with condescension, you aren't going to be asked for explanations again.

Right. I agree the political party leaders can’t take that path. I will still be condescending to shitty people in my day to day and other regular dem civilians should do the same. 

Edited November 9 by Hank_Hill

[linux 1658]

Something the Democratic party has to come to grips with itself, we need a leader a populist one and we need to fall in line, no more neurotic thinking, no more identity politics, no more shitty mainstream media that shackles us, fight them all the way be adversarial on how out of touch they are.

[aggie08 21592]

5 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

It’s quite a conundrum because this election and the next 4 years will objectively show they deserve belittling but agreed Dems can’t win if it continues from the party itself. 

Outside of this website, I don't have a smug bone in my body. Would never dream of belittling someone or kicking them while they're down IRL.

BUT, if things go as sideways as we think that they can, I am going to be motherfucking intolerable to these people* in 4 years time.

If Trump does "better" than I expect--which is an incredibly fucking low bar--I'll give him credit and GLADLY admit to being wrong.

*these people being those who truly believe in Trump as a leader and actually think he cares about them or America, not voters who just voted for him because of the economy/inflation or shit Democrat messaging. The former are the proverbial dog chasing the anti-government car. Just like Brexit, you finally caught it. Shape the government how you see fit.

[quigley 1563]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The road to recovery starts with recognizing you have a problem. 
 

good luck on your journey 

I anticipated and appreciate the sarcasm.

I try to work on my blind spots.

[Incredulity 11716]

40 minutes ago, quigley said:

@Rex Kramer

Please explain what you mean by smug/snobbish because I didn't get that sense from the Harris campaign.

But I agree that she coded as "smug" and "California liberal." She ran a left wing campaign in 2020, and she didn't directly rebut those assertions.

if you can clear your mind of previous biases, hatred,….what have you.

Watch the Real Time episode with Buck Sexton and Laura Coates.  There is a moment when Sexton says essentially what is being said here and Coates doubles down on condescending, Sexton points that out to her and she immediately triples down on it.

A great example.

[linux 1658]

Kamala Harris does interviews, she survives said interviews, but only because she practices/trains to say exactly what the media finds acceptable. She kisses the ring and that sways nobody except the people that want the old way back, its never coming back. They either fall in line for Democracy even if they have no input or we eternally live in dictatorship.

[Incredulity 11716]

1 minute ago, quigley said:

I anticipated and appreciate the sarcasm.

I try to work on my blind spots.

It was offered in earnest.  Although I don’t begrudge the interpretation, as we are where we are.

[Hank_Hill 19001]

It’s unfortunate that the republican leaders and media can throw vitriol and be condescending to anyone they want and have little blowback and the Dems have to take the high road to win. But, same as it ever was. 

[quigley 1563]

3 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Right. I agree the political party leaders can’t take that path. I will still be condescending to shitty people in my day to day and other regular dem civilians should do the same. 

You do you dude.

Golden rule first.

 

[linux 1658]

Just now, Hank_Hill said:

It’s unfortunate that the republican leaders and media can throw vitriol and be condescending to anyone they want and have little blowback and the Dems have to take the high road to win. But, same as it ever was. 

And we are not even winning anymore, our leaders failed us Obama failed us, Hillary failed us, Biden failed us. We needed greatness and all we got was establishment.

[Hank_Hill 19001]

Just now, quigley said:

You do you dude.

Golden rule first.

 

Golden rule is wayyy outdated. Admirable though! 

[linux 1658]

We need to talk about the only thing people care about, their pocket book, its the economy stupid in the 90s was about the stock market and macro stuff, but right now it is poverty. I hope Trump carries out the mass austerity Musk wants. Its the only way to jarr people to reality. the GOP is a pro poverty party, income inequality is now at a fever pitch. 

[Pancho 45524]

6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Outside of this website, I don't have a smug bone in my body. Would never dream of belittling someone or kicking them while they're down IRL.

BUT, if things go as sideways as we think that they can, I am going to be motherfucking intolerable to these people* in 4 years time.

If Trump does "better" than I expect--which is an incredibly fucking low bar--I'll give him credit and GLADLY admit to being wrong.

*these people being those who truly believe in Trump as a leader and actually think he cares about them or America, not voters who just voted for him because of the economy/inflation or shit Democrat messaging. The former are the proverbial dog chasing the anti-government car. Just like Brexit, you finally caught it. Shape the government how you see fit.

 

You’re an Aggie, y’all are always smug yet have no national championships to justify the smugness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Dennison 19131]

3 minutes ago, linux said:

And we are not even winning anymore, our leaders failed us Obama failed us, Hillary failed us, Biden failed us. We needed greatness and all we got was establishment.

We literally won four years ago.

[quigley 1563]

1 minute ago, Hank_Hill said:

It’s unfortunate that the republican leaders and media can throw vitriol and be condescending to anyone they want and have little blowback and the Dems have to take the high road to win. But, same as it ever was. 

Two answers:

1. The media ecosystem has allowed revanchist bullying. @RabidM is right. There needs to be a counterbalance.

2. @linux is on the right track with his idea about Al Franken (but Al's washed sadly). The way to beat the bully is with humor. There are plenty of lefty comedians who are smart and sharp. We need to recruit one to run for congress in 2026 and president in 2028.

[aggie08 21592]

1 minute ago, Hank_Hill said:

It’s unfortunate that the republican leaders and media can throw vitriol and be condescending to anyone they want and have little blowback and the Dems have to take the high road to win. But, same as it ever was. 

I have a theory that that smug, indignant, just asking (ridiculous accusatory) questions Republican mouthpiece tone--from Rush to O'Reilly to Beck to Hannity to Tucker to our Congress to podcast row--has become so widespread and common over three decades that most don't even hear it anymore. That's just how they talk. So nothing stands out. Meanwhile, when a Dem goes on a mean-spirited rant, it causes a reflexive, "Fuck you, elitist" response.

[linux 1658]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We literally won four years ago.

Four -Five years ago I openly stated that any one of the democratic candidates in that podium would beat Trump the pandemic was RAGING, the important question was what came after, I opposed Biden because I saw him as weak and in love with the status quo, the chickens came home to roost. The failure was the presidency, the failure was playing the game with the economic elites, the failure was allowing republican blocking to shackle him. Biden needed to be the most "I will fight for you president in history!" instead he was "I will work with Republicans!" Now I even wonder if we will have fair and free elections anymore.

Edited November 9 by linux

[Incredulity 11716]

1 minute ago, linux said:

instead he was "I will work with Republicans!"