Any thoughts on these colleges?

[tx 3 putt 77283]

I am of the belief that the current generation of engineers (from big programs) have little to no interest in working inside a chemical plant or refinery as their first job out of college. Maybe it’s always been that way. You’re often outside, rain or shine and the hours are often long. The refineries are especially brutal. I often tell students, don’t take a refinery job unless you have no other options. And you better be very hands on / mechanically inclined 

now kids out of the engineering program at  Lamar U, they are all over those chemical plant and refinery jobs. It’s nothing for those kids to be making $130k+ three years out of college. It’s a very good program that sends out a trainable new hire. Same could be said for McNeese st. Companies start targeting those kids their sophomore year. 

[jimmyjazz 46049]

A very close friend transferred from UT to Lamar and completed his BSEE (emphasis controls).  He started working O&G plant process gigs right out of college, eventually transferred to Austria for "6 months", which became 24 years and counting.  He owns his own consulting business in Vienna now and makes big bank.  Lamar may not be the greatest school in the world, but for that industry it is in a prime position to launch people who will do the work into rewarding careers.

Edited June 6, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[jimmyjazz 46049]

So since this has become the de facto "how the hell do I get my kid into a good college" thread:  Chitwood and I spoke offline about college counselors, among other things.  We both seemed to be of the opinion that hiring one may be throwing good money after bad.  Any experiences one way or the other with these services?  

I have to believe most of that information is out there, but finding it might be tricky.  The information I've gleaned here about getting into UT in just the last few days has been invaluable.  I can't imagine doing that for a half dozen schools, but I also can't imagine that many college counselors know those ins and outs all that well, either.

[tx 3 putt 77283]

So is the best play to go liberal arts to get accepted then transfer ?

[TwiceHorn 31520]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

I am of the belief that the current generation of engineers (from big programs) have little to no interest in working inside a chemical plant or refinery as their first job out of college. Maybe it’s always been that way. You’re often outside, rain or shine and the hours are often long. The refineries are especially brutal. I often tell students, don’t take a refinery job unless you have no other options. And you better be very hands on / mechanically inclined 

now kids out of the engineering program at  Lamar U, they are all over those chemical plant and refinery jobs. It’s nothing for those kids to be making $130k+ three years out of college. It’s a very good program that sends out a trainable new hire. Same could be said for McNeese st. Companies start targeting those kids their sophomore year. 

 

It's always been that way.  UT MEs want to do design work in a big city or go to grad school and do the same. In the 80s, coastal plant jobs were for those with poor grades that couldn't find anything else.  Of course there are probably a lot of people that would have been better off taking a plant job, but that wasn't the hot shit.

Engineering has always been about more than doing the math.  You can do the math all day long, but if you have zero interest in the real world applications, you're not going to make much of an engineer.  One of the most academically talented people in my class could do the math, but asked the stupidest fucking questions in the project classes because she just wasn't wired for real world applications  Example, we had to design a boat prop drive shaft for an entirely fictitious boat and she asked "what kind of boat is it?  How fast does it go?"  She went on to Purdue to study statistical thermodynamics.  Yes, she was going to make more steam tables.  Fitting.

[TwiceHorn 31520]

22 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I've hired MEs out of UT in the recent past.  I guarantee several of them didn't have that kind of HS resume.  ME shouldn't be turning down students like that.

 

20 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

the only ME's ive worked with that kind of resume came out of rice 

i remember my first job. first project, it's me and two other new hires, ut petro e and ou petro e.  shooting the shit, i tell them - i figured you could get a better job than this lulz 

This is obviously a new development coinciding with top X% automatic admits.  So generally they start with that pool, winnow out the ones that obviously lack rigorous high school math and physics backgrounds and then start applying whatever criteria they've developed to winnow out those that they think don't have it.

PEn is a frightening degree.  When oil is booming, its fantastic; when it's not it sucks ass.  Once you're hired and got a couple years under your belt, you're probably ok.  But if you graduate in a bust, like most of the 80s, you're fucked like chuck.  We had dozens of PEns coming back to get BSMEs and pissed about the 70-80 hours they had to take to get it.

[TwiceHorn 31520]

46 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

So is the best play to go liberal arts to get accepted then transfer ?

I don't think you can do that.  Maybe if you take the engineering prereqs and pull a 4.0.

There isn't another university of UT's caliber that's stuck with a top X% automatic admission. For a school that's in high demand, that has some top 10 programs in certain departments, that is going to create some monstrous distortions. Other schools may have equally or more rigorous entry requirements, but it will be holistic enough that it probably seems less arbitrary than getting into a highly ranked, highly competitive program at UT.

Edited June 7, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Message Board User 12395]

So my kid is starting kindergarten in the fall - should she start studying for the SAT now or wait until the middle of kindergarten? 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Message Board User

[TwiceHorn 31520]

I meant to add that UT may have tried just letting any auto admit into engineering or business and letting attrition take care of it in the old way.  But with the rise in tuition, among other things, they apparently don't feel that it's good to just let attrition do the work as it used to.  It has created some odd scenarios and I think something is going to have to give at some point.

[jimmyjazz 46049]

How does auto-admit as far as major goes?  If a kid comes in #1 in his class but he has a 1200 SAT, does he get to declare his major or does the school get to tell him "liberal arts or nothing"?

[tx 3 putt 77283]

22 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

So my kid is starting kindergarten in the fall - should she start studying for the SAT now or wait until the middle of kindergarten? 

It’s already too late 

[phdhorn 6224]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

How does auto-admit as far as major goes?  If a kid comes in #1 in his class but he has a 1200 SAT, does he get to declare his major or does the school get to tell him "liberal arts or nothing"?

The second.  Getting admitted to a school/college is a whole 'nother thing.

[conVINCEd 21469]

I would not fare well in this current environment.  I sent UT my SAT scores and they sent me a postcard asking me to check the box of what I wanted to major in with no limitations.  My score  wasn’t crazy high either, as my mother signed me up to take the SAT the day after the last day of school and I was hungover af.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I would not fare well in this current environment.  I sent UT my SAT scores and they sent me a postcard asking me to check the box of what I wanted to major in with no limitations.  My score  wasn’t crazy high either, as my mother signed me up to take the SAT the day after the last day of school and I was hungover af.  

Was it your .750 batting average in high school or the 4.3 Forty that you ran?

[Asithappens 974]

15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How does auto-admit as far as major goes?  If a kid comes in #1 in his class but he has a 1200 SAT, does he get to declare his major or does the school get to tell him "liberal arts or nothing"?

Boy, are you in for some bad news.

On the plus side, I hear that the Social Work major has some openings.

[Asithappens 974]

16 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I meant to add that UT may have tried just letting any auto admit into engineering or business and letting attrition take care of it in the old way.  But with the rise in tuition, among other things, they apparently don't feel that it's good to just let attrition do the work as it used to.  It has created some odd scenarios and I think something is going to have to give at some point.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but the "auto-admit" crowd should not be necessarily automatically admitted into the college of engineering or business. If you're top x% of some dog-shit school and happen to have low SATs, you should not be given preference over some kid who went to a very good school (but not in top x%) who has stellar SATs.

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but the "auto-admit" crowd should not be necessarily automatically admitted into the college of engineering or business. If you're top x% of some dog-shit school and happen to have low SATs, you should not be given preference over some kid who went to a very good school (but not in top x%) who has stellar SATs.

 

there you go thinking this is a meritocracy...

[Beau Vine 54352]

3 hours ago, Asithappens said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but the "auto-admit" crowd should not be necessarily automatically admitted into the college of engineering or business. If you're top x% of some dog-shit school and happen to have low SATs, you should not be given preference over some kid who went to a very good school (but not in top x%) who has stellar SATs.

 

I had a girl in one of my UT classes who was the valedictorian of Houston Jones (or some shitty inner-city school like that).  She outworked everyone in the class, but she could not do basic math for the life of her.  She'd also go through her tests before she turned them in and count the number of a, b, c, d, e answers and adjust things if she had "too many" of one answer.

[jimmyjazz 46049]

Any advice on whether Apply Texas or the Coalition Application is better for a soon-to-be HS senior?  I know the Coalition site functions as a "locker" of sorts to store all kinds of things throughout HS, but we didn't do that.  We'd be starting from scratch on either one.  I know Apply Texas reaches every public school in Texas, along with some private schools, although Rice doesn't appear to be on the list.  Coalition claims 130+ universities, but their list is broken, and I assume that's nationwide, so perhaps they don't reach every public school in Texas?

My daughter's primary choice is UT but she wants to hit a few UT system schools as a transfer option, as well as a bunch of national schools both public and private.  (I'm working on the perhaps flawed assumption that it might actually be less expensive to attend a private school than an out of state public school, given the differing levels of financial aid that are sometimes offered.  Any input there would be welcome.)  In that context, Coalition might make more sense since it's national.

[52-80 19222]

On 6/8/2019 at 12:05 AM, Beau Vine said:

I had a girl in one of my UT classes who was the valedictorian of Houston Jones (or some shitty inner-city school like that).  She outworked everyone in the class, but she could not do basic math for the life of her.  She'd also go through her tests before she turned them in and count the number of a, b, c, d, e answers and adjust things if she had "too many" of one answer.

the world need scantron checkers too

[crash_davis 23114]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Any advice on whether Apply Texas or the Coalition Application is better for a soon-to-be HS senior?  I know the Coalition site functions as a "locker" of sorts to store all kinds of things throughout HS, but we didn't do that.  We'd be starting from scratch on either one.  I know Apply Texas reaches every public school in Texas, along with some private schools, although Rice doesn't appear to be on the list.  Coalition claims 130+ universities, but their list is broken, and I assume that's nationwide, so perhaps they don't reach every public school in Texas?

My daughter's primary choice is UT but she wants to hit a few UT system schools as a transfer option, as well as a bunch of national schools both public and private.  (I'm working on the perhaps flawed assumption that it might actually be less expensive to attend a private school than an out of state public school, given the differing levels of financial aid that are sometimes offered.  Any input there would be welcome.)  In that context, Coalition might make more sense since it's national.

my understanding on transferring in from UT system satellite schools is that you can only transfer into liberal arts school.  you can change majors but even then, the choices are limited.

i believe it's impossible to transfer into engineering, comp science or business schools.  my understanding is that if you don't get into those schools as a freshman, you are not getting in.

you have to ask yourself, what's a UT degree worth?  is the school on the degree better than the major?

I'd rather send my kid to "lesser" school for a business degree than to UT for an english degree.  one may offer a path to gainful employment, the other may offer a path to who knows what.

Edited June 22, 2019 by crash_davis

[jimmyjazz 46049]

36 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

my understanding on transferring in from UT system satellite schools is that you can only transfer into liberal arts school.  you can change majors but even then, the choices are limited.

i believe it's impossible to transfer into engineering, comp science or business schools.  my understanding is that if you don't get into those schools as a freshman, you are not getting in.

you have to ask yourself, what's a UT degree worth?  is the school on the degree better than the major?

I'd rather send my kid to "lesser" school for a business degree than to UT for an english degree.  one may offer a path to gainful employment, the other may offer a path to who knows what.

Not an issue -- her primary interest is psychology, perhaps with a double major in music.  She understands that psych likely requires a PhD to do research, which is where she wants to be.  She is currently an intern in the department although she hasn't had as much time to devote to it as she'd like.  I think she stands a good chance of being admitted through the holistic review.  She probably won't make top 6%.

[tx 3 putt 77283]

On 6/21/2019 at 7:02 PM, crash_davis said:

i believe it's impossible to transfer into engineering, comp science or business schools.  my understanding is that if you don't get into those schools as a freshman, you are not getting in.

Damn, that’s hard core 

[mchookem 16358]

random question: is UNT kind of 'artsy'?

 

[chitwood 155]

23 minutes ago, mchookem said:

random question: is UNT kind of 'artsy'?

 

Very good music school. So yes. 

[Guest Lobo]

Performing Arts there is off the charts good.  Fine Arts/Visual Arts is good, but not great.  

Put it this way, the former dean of their music school made the program so great, Yale took him so they could keep up with UNT.  

[pacman 7369]

On 6/21/2019 at 7:42 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Not an issue -- her primary interest is psychology, perhaps with a double major in music.  She understands that psych likely requires a PhD to do research, which is where she wants to be.  She is currently an intern in the department although she hasn't had as much time to devote to it as she'd like.  I think she stands a good chance of being admitted through the holistic review.  She probably won't make top 6%.

Daughter is shooting for the nursing school (no more med school) at UT, leaving a couple of d1 soccer offers on the table , but apparently she wants Texas bad. I told her that I couldn't blame her, our school gave me everything.

She will end up just outside the top 6%, not a great test taker, but a hard worker in the classroom. Appreciate this thread.

Edited July 24, 2019 by pacman

[TwiceHorn 31520]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:32 PM, Asithappens said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but the "auto-admit" crowd should not be necessarily automatically admitted into the college of engineering or business. If you're top x% of some dog-shit school and happen to have low SATs, you should not be given preference over some kid who went to a very good school (but not in top x%) who has stellar SATs.

 

I agree.  I knew some kids, one in particular, that went to kind of ass-backward high schools where they were top students, but didn't have the opportunity to take calculus, or physics, or even a hardcore, quantitative chemistry class.  I think they were probably smart enough to do the work, but getting all of that, at once, in a first-time and intense environment, was just too hard on them.  Of course, this was 30 years ago when every high school didn't offer 35 AP classes like they do today, but I imagine that it still applies to one degree or another.

[TwiceHorn 31520]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:26 PM, chitwood said:

Very good music school. So yes. 

And the overall environment in Denton is a bit hippy-dippy, kind of like Austin used to be.

[CooterBrown 18022]

24 minutes ago, pacman said:

Daughter is shooting for the nursing school (no more med school) at UT, leaving a couple of d1 soccer offers on the table , but apparently she wants Texas bad. I told her that I couldn't blame her, our school gave me everything.

She will end up just outside the top 6%, not a great test taker, but a hard worker in the classroom. Appreciate this thread.

Save your fucking money.  Our babysitter is in the Bachelor of Nursing program at ACC. She has a job offer in town that pays $70,000.  Out of pocket, the entire program is under $10K.  

Downside is the lack of a college lifestyle experience and her friend circle hasn't expanded beyond those people she knew in high school.  That could be more her problem and not a problem for most kids.

[pacman 7369]

Oh yes, we are in agreement but she is weighing the college experience at UT pretty high. I have mentioned many alternatives, but we will see how it goes. Of particular importance, is how prepared they are when they graduate and are placed in a hospital. She also wants to transition to the admin side, eventually.

Pics of your babysitter. for research...

[Guest Lobo]

2 hours ago, pacman said:

Daughter is shooting for the nursing school (no more med school) at UT, leaving a couple of d1 soccer offers on the table , but apparently she wants Texas bad. I told her that I couldn't blame her, our school gave me everything.

She will end up just outside the top 6%, not a great test taker, but a hard worker in the classroom. Appreciate this thread.

May be cold comfort to you on the cost side...but our School of Nursing has always been good to great, but not top echelon in terms of nationwide (obviously it kicks ass in Texas).  It has been an unfortunate confluence of resources, lack of medical school, etc.  But that is literally next up on the Medical School Dean's punch list and Seton is getting deeply involved.  The Tower is putting more resources behind it at the behest of the legislature who finally noticed we don't just need more nurses, we need better nurses.  But your daughter will benefit from being there right at the crux of a revolutionary time at the School of Nursing.  Can't help the old cold war building, but starting with the 2020-21 academic year, there will be a lot more money, but more importantly---better visiting faculty, better collaborative opportunities with the Med School and engineering/natural sciences/etc. on campus.  There is already program integration at the system level to get these students more opportunity (in both undergrad and at the Master's level) with other system assets (UTHSC-San Antonio, UTHSC-Houston, et. al.).  And because of the Seton dedication, they can also coach up those that wish to dive into the ugly side of health care (administration, insurance, leadership, politics, lobbying, legality, etc.).  Seton is still feeling their way around that part, but they and Dell Medical have marked Nursing and Public Health as kinda the next big tackle (and we both know they are deeply intertwined).  Anyway, stay tuned but be optimistic.  She'll be the Vanguard of what we've needed for decades.  

[chitwood 155]

I have twins who are about to be seniors at Anderson, and they got their class rank earlier this month that determines top 10%. Son is an auto admit to UT and hopefully will get into Cockrell (just outside top 1% and 1590 superscore SAT). Daughter is top 6.48% so missed auto admit by 3 spots. She is more than likely going to s smaller liberal arts school, but that auto admit would have been nice to have in the back pocket, as UT is probably the only school that they will both apply to. 

[jimmyjazz 46049]

So what was your son's punishment for falling short on his SAT?  (Holy smokes, that's awesome!)

[crash_davis 23114]

9 hours ago, chitwood said:

I have twins who are about to be seniors at Anderson, and they got their class rank earlier this month that determines top 10%. Son is an auto admit to UT and hopefully will get into Cockrell (just outside top 1% and 1590 superscore SAT). Daughter is top 6.48% so missed auto admit by 3 spots. She is more than likely going to s smaller liberal arts school, but that auto admit would have been nice to have in the back pocket, as UT is probably the only school that they will both apply to. 

cockrell looks at hs math courses.  i'm sure he has calculus and stuff but scoring high in AP math tests and showing dedication to math courses (all 4 years) will help.

your daughter may be outside of auto admit but depending on her degree choice, she may still easily get in.

[HRSchenker 2271]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:02 PM, mchookem said:

random question: is UNT kind of 'artsy'?

 

One of my drumline buddies turned away a scholarship at UT to attend UNT's music program FWIW. I've been out of the game a little over 10 years but I've always known UNT as having a great fine arts program.

[chitwood 155]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

cockrell looks at hs math courses.  i'm sure he has calculus and stuff but scoring high in AP math tests and showing dedication to math courses (all 4 years) will help.

your daughter may be outside of auto admit but depending on her degree choice, she may still easily get in.

Thanks.  He has taken Algebra I and II, Geometry, AP Stats (got a 5), Pre-AP Pre Cal and is taking AP Calculus B/C this year (technically it is IB, so he won't take the AP test).

She will be a Liberal Arts major, so that should help.

And I apologize for the not so humble brag, but I am really proud of both of them.  They have busted their asses through the IB program at Anderson.

Edited July 25, 2019 by chitwood

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

11 hours ago, chitwood said:

I have twins who are about to be seniors at Anderson, and they got their class rank earlier this month that determines top 10%. Son is an auto admit to UT and hopefully will get into Cockrell (just outside top 1% and 1590 superscore SAT). Daughter is top 6.48% so missed auto admit by 3 spots. She is more than likely going to s smaller liberal arts school, but that auto admit would have been nice to have in the back pocket, as UT is probably the only school that they will both apply to. 

You poor fucking bastard. And I mean that in the economic sense. 

[Asithappens 974]

33 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

One of my drumline buddies turned away a scholarship at UT to attend UNT's music program FWIW. I've been out of the game a little over 10 years but I've always known UNT as having a great fine arts program.

If you're into music majors, then UNT is the better choice. 

God help them, though.

[jimmyjazz 46049]

 

1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

One of my drumline buddies turned away a scholarship at UT to attend UNT's music program FWIW. I've been out of the game a little over 10 years but I've always known UNT as having a great fine arts program.

It does, but I don't know how much it affects school culture.  UNT has an enrollment of ~ 38K with maybe 4% music majors.  I haven't been on campus, but I'd be shocked if it had a vibe that was much different from that of Texas State.

[chitwood 155]

2 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

You poor fucking bastard. And I mean that in the economic sense. 

Even better I have another daughter about to be a sophomore in high school.  I look forward to three kids in college at the same time.

[crash_davis 23114]

2 hours ago, Asithappens said:

God help them, though.

music major or unt, or both.

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 hour ago, chitwood said:

Even better I have another daughter about to be a sophomore in high school.  I look forward to three kids in college at the same time.

Congrats on the extremely intelligent kids.  I’m don’t know how I would be able to handle the fact my high schoolers are all considerably smarter than their father.  

I’ll have 3 in college at the same time as well. 2 of the 3 are trending more Southwest than UT, but the youngest has potential.  

[SimonBolivar 10958]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

It does, but I don't know how much it affects school culture.  UNT has an enrollment of ~ 38K with maybe 4% music majors.  I haven't been on campus, but I'd be shocked if it had a vibe that was much different from that of Texas State.

I've always felt an artsy vibe especially out on the square and around town, but yeah the Lewisville commuter isn't going to be all that rah rah school spirit.

[Poolflood 845]

Necro-bump

Pool Jr. Looking out of state.   His top 3 he's been accepted to are: Clemson, Auburn and Ole Miss.

Looking business and/or economics.  Possibly law post grad.   

Any surly wisdom? 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Poolflood said:

Necro-bump

Pool Jr. Looking out of state.   His top 3 he's been accepted to are: Clemson, Auburn and Ole Miss.

Looking business and/or economics.  Possibly law post grad.   

Any surly wisdom? 

what's his 40 time?LOL

Why the southern football powers...or just a coincidence?

 

Good luck on a serious note.  FTR, Slorch Jr  is doing his masters in Comp Science at Georgia Tech and there was zero connection other than it being generally a Top 5 school in that field.

.

[Poolflood 845]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

what's his 40 time?LOL

Why the southern football powers...or just a coincidence?

 

Good luck on a serious note.  FTR, Slorch Jr  is doing his masters in Comp Science at Georgia Tech and there was zero connection other than it being generally a Top 5 school in that field.

.

Lol. Not fast enough.  He really hasn't explained his thought process.  But I think it goes 1) far from home. 2) fun campus/athletics 3) quality degree.

Of course Wake was his top school but didn't make.  But at 75k yr.....I'm not heart broken. 

Think it's between ole Miss and Clemson at this point.  He likes how econ dept is in business school and they have a +3 program to get undergrad and then JD in 6 years.

[CooterBrown 18022]

Ole Miss has the hottest coeds.

[Guest Lobo]

If he's gonna stick with business, go Clemson.  If he's going economics, they're all about the same.  

[40acredropout 2902]

10 hours ago, Poolflood said:

Necro-bump

Pool Jr. Looking out of state.   His top 3 he's been accepted to are: Clemson, Auburn and Ole Miss.

Looking business and/or economics.  Possibly law post grad.   

Any surly wisdom? 

He will have a good time - and you will have a good time visiting -  any of the three.