CEO of UHG Shot and Killed in NYC - WTF is wrong with you New York

[Captainant 28477]

Just now, wong said:

I actually looked it up and I'm shocked to see how many large orgs are self-insured. Had no idea that was the case working in the small business realm for 15 years. 

The real scam is that it's systemically impossible to self-insure unless you're independently wealthy.

Wage earners are bound to their employers, lest they fall ill and have zero options but wither away and die. And that may still happen, even if you have coverage thanks to the UHG's of America 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3509]

45 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If anyone is cheering this guys death, they should most likely also be happy if their bosses at work are murdered for the same reason. If you work at a large employer, your employer is the one indirectly turning down any claim. They assume the financial risk not the ins company. The ins company is only handling the admin work for a fee.

Ask your ceo about the percentage of employee claims that are denied? Zero chance that he will want to discuss that or get back to you. They hide behind the insurance companies.

Hey man, this thing got tons of people to come together and agree on something, which is rather rare for late 2024 in the United States... don't be a Debbie downer with your facts and logic...  Laissez les bons temps rouler!

 

[NorthLoop 14441]

48 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If anyone is cheering this guys death, they should most likely also be happy if their bosses at work are murdered for the same reason.

I don't think you're gonna get the pushback here that you think you are. 

[Hefeweizen 5433]

Two good friends are CEOs of big corporations.  Not insurance or what I would consider evil companies, but I have a feeling some serious risk assessment is coming down the road.  The times they are a changing.

[locodos 5590]

Comes from People magazine... so grains of salt and whatever..

Quote

The words "deny," "defend" and "depose" were reportedly discovered by detectives on shell casings found at the scene where UnitedHealth Group CEO Brian Thompson was fatally shot, police sources told ABC News.

The chilling detail emerged as the shooting suspect remains at large after what NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch described as a “brazen, targeted attack" during a press conference on Wednesday, Dec. 4.

Thompson, 50, was shot just before 6:45 a.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 4, outside the New York Hilton Midtown hotel. The masked gunman was “lying in wait” outside the building according to Tisch. Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny added that the gunman appeared to be "proficient" in the use of firearms.

According to ABC News, NYPD detectives are working to establish whether the words found on the casing were meant as a message from the shooting suspect and a hint at their motive.

sending a message

[Anastasis 23711]

Just now, NorthLoop said:

I don't think you're gonna get the pushback here that you think you are. 

Wait until you get a mass murder of an HR department. That’s when the real love will flow forth. 

[boilerhorn 1611]

Many companies - even mid and smaller ones - are self-insured, to a point.  They have a form of super-cat insurance for major issues.

When I was at a smaller company a few years back, we'd have folks spending 1/2 a day on the phone fighting through a $400 denied claim and/or looking for an approval.  Boss (at the time) and I just asked our benefits coordinator (also HR person) to approve these and we'd eat the cost.  For the most part it was small and it kept people focused on what we hired them to do.

That said, the culture at places like UHC and others is to make their customers happy about the service and financials.  As a result, there is incentive to deny claims and push back.  Some folks acquiesce and eat the costs.  Insurer then comes back and says, "We billed you $2mm this year for services and your claims were low last year.  As a result, your premium for next year will not go up the 10% everyone else is seeing.  You'll see a 3% increase."  

A friend is at a larger company and his daughter had issues in 2023 and 2024 that cost nearly 7 figures.  That company had no problems taking care of it.  In fact, that company approved his daughter being extended on their health plan beyond age 26, which was astonishing to me.  They're footing the bill (or the super-cat limit kicked in).

[Anastasis 23711]

2 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Two good friends are CEOs of big corporations.  Not insurance or what I would consider evil companies, but I have a feeling some serious risk assessment is coming down the road.  The times they are a changing.

Private security details for errbody. 

[locodos 5590]

3 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Two good friends are CEOs of big corporations.  Not insurance or what I would consider evil companies, but I have a feeling some serious risk assessment is coming down the road.  The times they are a changing.

A quote I think about a fair bit. One of the 3 sayings I think fit America to a T.   "The rich have forgotten to fear the poor"

Edited December 5 by locodos

[Captainant 28477]

Almost certainly the reference being made, the casings make me think of the book DELAY, DENY, DEFEND. I'd bet a dollar this was a response to their coverage denials 

[SpiralOut 1959]

2 minutes ago, locodos said:

A quote I think about a fair bit and are one of the 3 sayings I think fit America to a T.   "The rich have forgotten to fear the poor"

Yeah, it's absolutely wild these sociopaths who are actively killing people to help their bottom line have zero survival instinct because fucking over everyone for your own gain is so accepted in America at this point.  At any point in history except extremely recently, if you were responsible for mass deaths to enrich yourself, you'd at least be smart enough to realize people might have it out for you and keep some dudes around to ward them off.  Maybe make sure you spend most of your time in your castle or whatever.  This dude is nonchalantly walking around one of the most populous cities in the world without a care.  That's how unconcerned these parasites have become.  

[Bevo 13847]

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last

[Blotto 24002]

Sure, why not. This timeline, man. 

https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompsons-killer-becomes-focus-deny-defend-depose-crypto-1995931

[elfenix 34684]

https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1h743zq/ocfacebook_reactions_to_the_death_of_brian/

 

[gsoda3 3362]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Got a daughter living in the UK.  Recently diagnosed with a serious, chronic illness.  Had no problem getting in with a GP, who was thorough, ordered detailed bloodwork, and followed up promptly after the bloodwork came in.

The stories of the wait times for care in the UK and Canada, while having some basis in truth (she dealt with that when living in Canada....but she was also able to find the care she needed in short order, once she worked at it), are vastly overblown.  AND, they ignore the wait times and shortages of specialists for a shitload of care here as well.

No system is perfect.  But among first world systems, ours delivers the worst overall results per dollar spent.  It's not even close.

My experience is different.  My family's English.  I was born there. We moved to the States when I was little but my extended family still live there and I still have an NHS number.  We go back quite often, once every year or once every two years.  I've been sick there before and needed to see a doctor, but even in the second most populous city in the UK the next available appt for a GP was four days out. 

 

My aunt had a hysterectomy before COVID.  Her wait time was 18 months to be scheduled. 

 

My uncle had to wait 8 months for a root canal.  But he's Royal Navy so I don't know if they have a separate service for them like our VA.

 

My 29 yo BIL had a benign brain tumor.  Got on the list to see a neuro and was seen within 2 months.  Waited another 3 for surgery to have it removed but he died on the table.  

 

Private insurance isn't much better.  My SIL had private but elected to go with NHS when it came time to deliver her first baby.  

 

Two of my cousins are doctors with a third in med school.  One's a pediatrician and the other's I forget what.  There's real frustration from their patients about their access to care.  It's one of those things you have to live with though.

 

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 53419]

1 hour ago, SameSame said:

This is going to sound bad, because it probably is.  I watched a documentary recently on AI and facial recognition.  It showed China has the most advanced public facial recognition systems and they could pull up recognition at a very high rate within 1 second.

I'm guessing if the systems can differentiate the Chinese, they can figure out this slim shady.

Username checks out

[B00M 6729]

14 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

My experience is different.  My family's English.  I was born there. We moved to the States when I was little but my extended family still live there and I still have an NHS number.  We go back quite often, once every year or once every two years.  I've been sick there before and needed to see a doctor, but even in the second most populous city in the UK the next available appt for a GP was four days out. 

 

My aunt had a hysterectomy before COVID.  Her wait time was 18 months to be scheduled. 

 

My uncle had to wait 8 months for a root canal.  But he's Royal Navy so I don't know if they have a separate service for them like our VA.

 

My 29 yo BIL had a benign brain tumor.  Got on the list to see a neuro and was seen within 2 months.  Waited another 3 for surgery to have it removed but he died on the table.  

 

Private insurance isn't much better.  My SIL had private but elected to go with NHS when it came time to deliver her first baby.  

 

Two of my cousins are doctors with a third in med school.  One's a pediatrician and the other's I forget what.  There's real frustration from their patients about their access to care.  It's one of those things you have to live with though.

 

 

 

what do you think explains this? Do the doctors immigrate to America to make more money or something? 

Edited December 5 by B00M
8 months for a root canal is completely unacceptable. Can’t imagine how many people have ended up trying to do their own dental care or offed themselves due to the pain.

[Captain Ron 13122]

33 minutes ago, locodos said:

A quote I think about a fair bit. One of the 3 sayings I think fit America to a T.   "The rich have forgotten to fear the poor"

Some of the techbros do. Podcaster I listen to keeps reminding them if they continue with the wealth disparity, they are going to need to start driving around in armored cars. From their reactions she realizes they want to. And we have a major car company just put out a truck that fits the bill.

 

Like most others I'm of the mind that it was a tragedy that a man was killed. But as you learn he was a CEO and a CEO of a health insurance company, that tragedy diminishes.

[Captainant 28477]

16 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

My 29 yo BIL had a benign brain tumor.  Got on the list to see a neuro and was seen within 2 months.  Waited another 3 for surgery to have it removed but he died on the table.  

 

Private insurance isn't much better.  My SIL had private but elected to go with NHS when it came time to deliver her first baby.  

Getting postponed for a couple months to see a specialist does not sound foreign to my American medical experience. After my wife's cancer doctor became arbitrarily "out of network", it took us nearly six extra months to get her next screening. My sister had to fight for nearly a year to see a thyroid cancer specialist after her insurance-approved doctor retired. 

Don't even try to argue that there's no months long waits for specialists in the US

[gernblansten 3256]

Apparently nothing unites 2024 America quite like murder.

[Captainant 28477]

8 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Like most others I'm of the mind that it was a tragedy that a man was killed. But as you learn he was a CEO and a CEO of a health insurance company, that tragedy diminishes.

His company is responsible for millions of such tragedies every. single. year. And they make a FAT fuckin margin every time they get away with it. 

Rest in piss

[Dahobbs 18236]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If anyone is cheering this guys death, they should most likely also be happy if their bosses at work are murdered for the same reason. If you work at a large employer, your employer is the one indirectly turning down any claim. They assume the financial risk not the ins company. The ins company is only handling the admin work for a fee.

Ask your ceo about the percentage of employee claims that are denied? Zero chance that he will want to discuss that or get back to you. They hide behind the insurance companies.

 

51 minutes ago, wong said:

I actually looked it up and I'm shocked to see how many large orgs are self-insured. Had no idea that was the case working in the small business realm for 15 years. 

Not only are many companies operating self-funded ERISA health benefit plans, but when a company does that the health plan can magically ignore all state insurance law. Does your state require coverage for mental illness? Doesn't matter if your company is self-funded. Is balance billing outlawed in your state? Doesn't matter if your plan is self-funded. Does your state require that in the case a personal injury settlement that the employee be made whole before the insurance company is entitled to take any part of the settlement? Again, doesn't matter if your plan is self-funded.  Literally the only law that matters to a self-funded ERISA plan is ERISA itself (which doesn't say shit about insurance) and the plan language. The fact that insurance companies are typically hired to administer those self-funded plans (e.g., BCBS, United Health Care, Cigna) makes it very confusing to figure out who actually provides your healthcare. In Texas, your insurance card will say "self-insured" in tiny text if it is a self-funded plan. 

[Dahobbs 18236]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

His company is responsible for millions of such tragedies every. single. year. And they make a FAT fuckin margin every time they get away with it. 

Rest in piss

Come on, he was just a guy doing his job. He had worked his way up to the top of his company, but that doesn't make him responsible for our broken healthcare system. 

[Anastasis 23711]

44 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Almost certainly the reference being made, the casings make me think of the book DELAY, DENY, DEFEND. I'd bet a dollar this was a response to their coverage denials 

Homeowners and auto insurance CEOs on deck. 

Uh, anyone got a good stock tip on some publicly trader personal security firms. This is gonna spiral out. 

[locodos 5590]

6 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Some of the techbros do. Podcaster I listen to keeps reminding them if they continue with the wealth disparity, they are going to need to start driving around in armored cars. From their reactions she realizes they want to. And we have a major car company just put out a truck that fits the bill.

 

Like most others I'm of the mind that it was a tragedy that a man was killed. But as you learn he was a CEO and a CEO of a health insurance company, that tragedy diminishes.

It's not really the wealth disparity, it's how that wealth was aggregated.  If you build wealth on people's pain and misery you should expect that there'll be a reckoning at some point. 

Here's a guy that won't need an armored car, but if I see him in a Pub he'll need an armored liver.

[gsoda3 3362]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Getting postponed for a couple months to see a specialist does not sound foreign to my American medical experience. After my wife's cancer doctor became arbitrarily "out of network", it took us nearly six extra months to get her next screening. My sister had to fight for nearly a year to see a thyroid cancer specialist after her insurance-approved doctor retired. 

Don't even try to argue that there's no months long waits for specialists in the US

Like most of these threads,  you're the only one arguing my dude.  

I had to wait two months here in Texas to see my GI for a follow up on a surgery so I don't know if two months is acceptable or not to see a neurologist after several trips to the GP.  I will say my friend's mom was in the ER before Thanksgiving having what they thought was a stroke but turns out she has a mass in her brain and her surgery is scheduled for next week.  MD Anderson. 

 

 

 

 

[huge 3831]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

His company is responsible for millions of such tragedies every. single. year. And they make a FAT fuckin margin every time they get away with it. 

Rest in piss

And yet the 2 British guys that work/worked for me actually preferred our system to theirs.  Extremely anecdotal evidence only, YMMV.

[Captainant 28477]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Come on, he was just a guy doing his job. He had worked his way up to the top of his company, but that doesn't make him responsible for our broken healthcare system. 

Denying more than one third of claims.

Using known broken AI models to programmatically deny care, and then arguing that the sick patients should go through a years long appeals process.

Administering one of the most restrictive Medicare Advantage programs in the nation.

 

Fuck him and every other entity profiting off of systemic denial of care. 

[Anastasis 23711]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The fact that insurance companies are typically hired to administer those self-funded plans (e.g., BCBS, United Health Care, Cigna) makes it very confusing to figure out who actually provides your healthcare.

Apparently the 2025 motto is going to be "stack the bodies, figure out the details later."

[Nice Guy Eddie 13723]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

His company is responsible for millions of such tragedies every. single. year. And they make a FAT fuckin margin every time they get away with it. 

Rest in piss

Hyperbole much? How are insurance companies responsible for million of annual tragedies?

Insurance companies don’t force hospitals, doctors, medical device companies, pharmaceutical to charge as much as they do. I’m not going to dox myself more with stating my background but I definitely don’t work or support insurance companies. they’re just part of the system that rations healthcare.

america could offer 100% full healthcare with no authorizations required. You and your doc want something for you, you got it. Then your monthly premiums will be exponentially higher than today. 

[locodos 5590]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Come on, he was just a guy doing his job. He had worked his way up to the top of his company, but that doesn't make him responsible for our broken healthcare system. 

signed

Nazi Defense Counsel Nuremburg

[Anastasis 23711]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Hyperbole much? How are insurance companies responsible for million of annual tragedies?

Insurance companies don’t force hospitals, doctors, medical device companies, pharmaceutical to charge as much as they do. I’m not going to dox myself more with stating my background but I definitely don’t work or support insurance companies. they’re just part of the system that rations healthcare.

america could offer 100% full healthcare with no authorizations required. You and your doc want something for you, you got it. Then your monthly premiums will be exponentially higher than today. 

Someone's gonna need to bump the healthcare policy thread for this convo. 

[Captainant 28477]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Apparently the 2025 motto is going to be "stack the bodies, figure out the details later."

Ah, the 2020 COVID response playbook. A classic. 

[Trey3216 15452]

56 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Wait until you get a mass murder of an HR department. That’s when the real love will flow forth. 

The HOA people better start watching their back...

[Anastasis 23711]

1 minute ago, locodos said:

Nazi Defense Counsel Nuremburg

[gsoda3 3362]

16 minutes ago, B00M said:

what do you think explains this? Do the doctors immigrate to America to make more money or something? 

Just a product of the system.  Medical professionals in the UK do make significantly less though while still being top tier academics and researchers*.

 

*Initially anyway.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong here- my impression is their institutional push for discovery isn't as strong due to a lower reward ceiling quelling motivation. 

[hookemATL 12229]

Just now, Trey3216 said:

The HOA people better start watching their back...

“Yeah sorry you need to get the trash cans in faster. We have to write you a citation”

 

[Dahobbs 18236]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Denying more than one third of claims.

Using known broken AI models to programmatically deny care, and then arguing that the sick patients should go through a years long appeals process.

Administering one of the most restrictive Medicare Advantage programs in the nation.

 

Fuck him and every other entity profiting off of systemic denial of care. 

That bottom bit is literally every person who owns stock of any kind. The majority of large employers are self-funded. Insurance companies make money charging a fee to administer those plans. The employer itself "profits" (lowers costs) when a claim is denied. You played yourself homie. 

[locodos 5590]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe think a little harder about the point I was trying to make.  I can dumb it down for you or you can take another swing at it.  Here's a clue, I wasn't calling anyone a Nazi.

[elfenix 34684]

the great thing about our broken healthcare system is that since it's decades upon decades of layers of shit on layers of shit no one single person or even group of people are responsible for how broken it is. so there's no one that can be pointed to as having the responsibility of fixing it. so it goes to the default, congress. but many of them are in the pockets of the people who have accumulated a fuck ton of wealth due to the massively broken system, and those accumulated points of wealthy really don't want it fixed, because then they might not be quite so wealthy. and what fun is that?

[Captainant 28477]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Hyperbole much? How are insurance companies responsible for million of annual tragedies?

Insurance companies don’t force hospitals, doctors, medical device companies, pharmaceutical to charge as much as they do. I’m not going to dox myself more with stating my background but I definitely don’t work or support insurance companies. they’re just part of the system that rations healthcare.

america could offer 100% full healthcare with no authorizations required. You and your doc want something for you, you got it. Then your monthly premiums will be exponentially higher than today. 

It's more that I would love to not have to deal with a middleman entity at all. But insurance companies have ensured that I have no choice but to go through them to get healthcare for my family. I have no say in what hospitals and doctors charge - they use some arcane medical billing coding mechanism that's deisgned to be impenetrable, so that only they and the insurance companies know how much things actually cost.

Hell, I had a 6mo checkup for my daughter that comprised: getting weighed, length measured with a measuring tape, physical inspection by her pediatrician, and second round of vaccines. Somehow that got coded into a $3,600 visit for "medical services" according to my EOB, insurance "covered" it all, but it all just seems like funny money designed to inflate the costs and keep anyone else but them from making decisions.

[Anastasis 23711]

5 minutes ago, locodos said:

Maybe think a little harder about the point I was trying to make.  I can dumb it down for you or you can take another swing at it.  Here's a clue, I wasn't calling anyone a Nazi.

It's just a meme, bro. 

[Gatorubet 30688]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Wait until you get a mass murder of an HR department. That’s when the real love will flow forth. 

True dat!   The reaction sort of reminds me of one of my favorite threads in Shaggy - the saga of Christopher Dorner, the LA cop who went on the rampage fighting police corruption and it’s disrespect for the community and their lives.  The cops went on the warpath as they do and wound up shooting up some innocent vehicles, just ‘cause.

This reminds me of that, because even though the subject was some guy murdering people, he was getting a huge amount of sympathy and empathy from folks who knew how corrupt law-enforcement is in many cities. 

in retrospect, that was a bit of a canary in the coal mine for response to the later Black Lives Matter type police killings of citizens.   It seemed to ignite some bubbling resentment.

[Anastasis 23711]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

It's more that I would love to not have to deal with a middleman entity at all. But insurance companies have ensured that I have no choice but to go through them to get healthcare for my family. I have no say in what hospitals and doctors charge - they use some arcane medical billing coding mechanism that's deisgned to be impenetrable, so that only they and the insurance companies know how much things actually cost.

Hell, I had a 6mo checkup for my daughter that comprised: getting weighed, length measured with a measuring tape, physical inspection by her pediatrician, and second round of vaccines. Somehow that got coded into a $3,600 visit for "medical services" according to my EOB, insurance "covered" it all, but it all just seems like funny money designed to inflate the costs and keep anyone else but them from making decisions.

The components of the healthcare delivery system are providers, facilities, pharma, payers (which includes government, employers, and insurers). The entire system needs to be scrapped and built over from scratch. Too many entrenched interests for that though, like 18% of GDP. Any meaningful re-visioning of the healthcare delivery and financing system is politically dead on arrival.   

[Captain Ron 13122]

29 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Come on, he was just a guy doing his job. He had worked his way up to the top of his company, but that doesn't make him responsible for our broken healthcare system. 

 

25 minutes ago, locodos said:

signed

Nazi Defense Counsel Nuremburg

Never have I felt this scene so much

Edited December 5 by Captain Ron

[Nivek 17394]

21 minutes ago, elfenix said:

the great thing about our broken healthcare system is that since it's decades upon decades of layers of shit on layers of shit no one single person or even group of people are responsible for how broken it is. so there's no one that can be pointed to as having the responsibility of fixing it. so it goes to the default, congress. but many of them are in the pockets of the people who have accumulated a fuck ton of wealth due to the massively broken system, and those accumulated points of wealthy really don't want it fixed, because then they might not be quite so wealthy. and what fun is that?

Who knew health insurance could be so complicated?

[Anastasis 23711]

15 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

True dat!   The reaction sort of reminds me of one of my favorite threads in Shaggy

I mean, this is a board that celebrated a drug-addled pedophile because he hated tow trucks, so nobody should be shocked. 

[Sawbonz 28136]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If anyone is cheering this guys death, they should most likely also be happy if their bosses at work are murdered for the same reason. If you work at a large employer, your employer is the one indirectly turning down any claim. They assume the financial risk not the ins company. The ins company is only handling the admin work for a fee.

Ask your ceo about the percentage of employee claims that are denied? Zero chance that he will want to discuss that or get back to you. They hide behind the insurance companies.

Even if self insured the benefits are almost always managed by one of the big carriers. The company is responsible for a certain amount per year and then reinsured for amounts over that. In those situations the company does have some leeway to overturn decisions made by the carriers and in my experience sometimes do for advanced imaging orders and even surgeries. I have no experience with things like chemo etc especially if newly approved or as part of a clinical trial 

[Chad Fuck 18127]

1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

Some of the techbros do. Podcaster I listen to keeps reminding them if they continue with the wealth disparity, they are going to need to start driving around in armored cars. From their reactions she realizes they want to. And we have a major car company just put out a truck that fits the bill.

 

Like most others I'm of the mind that it was a tragedy that a man was killed. But as you learn he was a CEO and a CEO of a health insurance company, that tragedy diminishes.

The ultra wealthy driving around in armored cars, taking helicopters from building to building so they can be even more out of touch with the unwashed masses.  All the while surrounded by machine-pistol carrying security.  We are barreling towards 3rd world status like a rocket on fire.  

[chainsaw 10260]

51 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Come on, he was just a guy doing his job. He had worked his way up to the top of his company, but that doesn't make him responsible for our broken healthcare system. 

but he's complicit, he benefited from it, and he was incentivized to prey on vulnerable people.