CEO of UHG Shot and Killed in NYC - WTF is wrong with you New York

[Incredulity 11861]

20 minutes ago, AbeFroman said:

The kid who posted the misdirection about CitiBike

 

ABC news is running with these photos being of the suspects face.

Really fucking confusing.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-piece-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-suspects-escape-route/story?id=116475329

UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting latest: New photos of suspect's face released

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

[po elvis 2137]

19 minutes ago, AbeFroman said:

The kid who posted the misdirection about CitiBike

 

Nothing to do with the killing, but nonetheless I like his thought process on how to get data that he could extrapolate into showing the general routes that each CitiBike was taking.

[crash_davis 23465]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

So, as much as it pains me to ever type this, Anastasis is MOSTLY right.   He's MOSTLY right that "nothing will change."  But he's a bit wrong.  It will continue to change.  That is, it will continue to get worse.  We will spend INCREASING amounts of money for DECREASING quality of outcomes.  We are on our chosen path.  All gas, no brakes.

Nothing is going to change except doubling down on the bullshit, see Nov election as evidence. Social services will continue to get taken awhile, or it'll be privatized so that cronies will make gazillions fleecing the dipshits who voted them in. But hey, incite some social war against 2% of the population and you can fleece dipshits every 4 years.

[Anastasis 23699]

 

 

Versus...

Edited December 5 by Anastasis

[Surly Bevo 25655]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

They don't give a fuck.

They've never had to give a fuck.

So fuck everyone.

Except now....maybe some of those fellas will think "huh....maybe I need to give a fuck?"  Pathetic that it takes "or else I might be murdered" to get them to think "MAYBE I should give a fuck," but that's where we are as a society.

The Rule of the Gun door swings both ways....

I wish we wouldn't go there but well here we are.

[chainsaw 10244]

Yeah I don't know, all white people kind of look the same to me, so I can't really make a positive ID. Sorry, boys.

[Beau Vine 55824]

That's supposed to be the same backpack?

 

[AbeFroman 3090]

11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

where is reporting that Citibike wasn't used as getaway?  

Citibikes have the blue coverings with the baskets

this guys on a different bike

 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-thompson-united-healthcare-ceo-shooting-suspect-gunman-new-york/

Edited December 5 by AbeFroman

[boilerhorn 1603]

Seems like the NYPD has really shitty image inference AI or is intentionally throwing shit out there to see if something sticks.

A 30 second visual review of the photos of the guy smiling would say, "that ain't the same guy." And that bike is clearly not a Citi Bike.  

[Trey3216 15450]

43 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

GM should have been kaput 15 years ago.

 

They were  

[Pam Cummings 9823]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Stopping in the middle of the aisle so you can talk to someone on your phone, using the speaker.

Or anybody that walks around with music blaring from a phone speaker. As a society, we should cut that out.

 

Also people who leave a mile of space between their car and the next car at a drive thru. Pull up, what are we doing?

Edited December 5 by Pam Cummings

[Incredulity 11861]

1 minute ago, Trey3216 said:

They were  

not really.  yes they went through a bankruptcy, but it was Fed Gov orchestrated soup to nuts and did have really any creative destruction dynamics found in a normal bankruptcy.

[DigDug 1735]

I'm going to say: Shooter-- Smiling picture guy--Guy on the bike--Computer scraper guy

4 Different guys

[Helobious 9755]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

That's supposed to be the same backpack?

 

Police AI probably matched the suspect to prior security cam footage. Easy to do with height/gait/rough estimate of face

[chainsaw 10244]

Height and gait can be spoofed with some foresight

[AbeFroman 3090]

2 minutes ago, DigDug said:

I'm going to say: Shooter-- Smiling picture guy--Guy on the bike--Computer scraper guy

4 Different guys

This is more elaborate than we thought.

They got a damn terrorist cell!

[ballrific 220]

eyes, eyebrows, backpack and jacket are different but other than that, exact match.  Get em!

[Pablo 500]

where's the best reddit thread following this, i'm not finding much good out there

[BrickHorn 18424]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Height and gait can be spoofed with some foresight

[HenryJames 67116]

21 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Yeah I don't know, all white people kind of look the same to me, so I can't really make a positive ID. Sorry, boys.

[Trey3216 15450]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

not really.  yes they went through a bankruptcy, but it was Fed Gov orchestrated soup to nuts and did have really any creative destruction dynamics found in a normal bankruptcy.

They went through a govt backed bankruptcy that for intensive porpoises, should have never happened.   THe creative destruction dynamics were there....but primarily in the credit division that got wrapped up in the same financial wizardry that destroyed the housing market.  

[HenryJames 67116]

1 minute ago, Pablo said:

where's the best reddit thread following this, i'm not finding much good out there

PM @Nicole44

[po elvis 2137]

23 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

That's supposed to be the same backpack?

 

I'm not gay like some of y'all, but I would like to see the unmasked guy from the rear. Better look at the backpack and his pants. I am sure they can see that in the video of him, but just wanted to show his face to the public.

[Murfdogg21 4548]

The discussion of healthcare costs and sources of greed and inefficiency warrant its own thread, but I'll jump in here. The entire spectrum of "healthcare" is tainted and would require a complete reboot which would cause serious damage to stakeholders throughout even if it is the best long term solution.

1. Education costs - Why is it so damn expensive? The costs and debt are major justifications for physicians' salaries. If I ever ran for federal office, I'd campaign to treat "healthcare" education (med school, nursing, may stretch into associated med techs and admin, maybe even dentistry while we're at it) like ROTC type programs. Tuition subsidized or completely funded in return for minimum term of service at some lower salary. Encourage opening more medical and dental schools. Lower the barrier to entry for more professionals, lock them in for a few years at a reasonable (perhaps "below market") rate, and more competition among providers when they are free agents. Universities have been jacking up tuition because they have unlimited demand and know people can just go into 6 figure debt.

2. Physician costs - Should getting into med school justify a lifetime of top 1% or 0.1% status? I realize not all doctors make that kind of money (family, GP, etc.) and I am biased by my frequent interactions with ortho surgeons, spine surgeons, sports medicine, and interventional/PM&R docs. Although not universal, the overwhelming majority of those docs make great money and are always looking at how to make more, sometimes unethically. I'm not in sales and don't worry about offending them, so sometimes I engage in this debate and they will lean hard into they deserve it because so few can do what they do (get accepted and graduate from med school? Perform injections or surgery after years of training?). There are many talented people that could've pursued medicine, and most that did were driven (on some level) by earnings potential. Defensive doctors often point at the debt incurred during college, med school, and residency as a justification...so we could eliminate that via #1 above.

3. Hospitals, ASCs, private practices - Nobody still sees these entities as anything but for-profit businesses, right? Hospitals and ASCs collect the lion's share of procedure reimbursements, and try to cut their costs by pushing (or forcing) the lowest cost supplies (medical devices, implants, third party services), reduced support staff (nurses, techs, admins), and ways of reducing physicians' fees and options. For private practices, doctors/owners go to as many business conferences as they do medical conferences to learn how to maximize profit, cut costs, minimize liability, etc. We could dedicate part of the great enshittening thread to this topic. Now we're in an era of private equity buying out hospitals, ASCs, and private practices (and dental and veterinary clinics too, for that matter), making the doctors salaried (more or less) employees, and reorganizing everything to maximize income and minimize costs.

4. Self-insured employers - Many (most?) mid to large size companies and municipalities have employee insurance administered through Aetna, UHC, BCBS, etc. but are actually self-funded. They collaborate with the brokers to set premiums, deductibles, fees, and coverage. Some employers look out for their employees more than others and take a big hit on these costs to offer cheaper healthcare, others absorb little to nothing of the costs and pass it right through via a crappy insurance plan at high premiums and deductibles.

5. Insurance companies - Not much need to add to what has already been discussed in this thread. They set premiums and reimbursements to maximize profit as much as the market will tolerate, while trying to minimize services covered.

 

All of the entities above are for profit (some will argue universities aren't, but come on). If they didn't make a profit, why would they be doing it? If they were out of the space, there would be less competition and theoretically higher costs and/or lesser quality and variety of service. How much profit is "too much"? As with all debates on capitalism, which of these should have prices capped by the government?  How much lower should the cap be than "free market" rates? How will such caps reduce the number of players and long term state of the healthcare industry? Would fixed, lower education costs cause some universities to drop medical and nursing programs? Caps on physician fees would push some out of the business (it already has a bit) and push other college graduate into alternative fields. Hospitals, ASCs, private practices, and similar facilities would not respond to lowered reimbursements by accepting lower profit, but through further cutting their costs in head count of support staff and quality of supplies. Forcing self-insured employers into coverage minimums and premium maximums could be possible, but they would offset it by reducing other forms of compensation to employees. Capping the profits of insurance companies could make healthcare more affordable in the short run, benefiting consumers. However, there are risks associated with reduced innovation, possible market consolidation, exploiting loopholes, and a potential decline in the quality of care. The overall impact would depend heavily on the specifics of the policy, including how the cap is structured, the level at which it is set, and how insurers adjust their business practices.

[Goredho 17627]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Someone should absolutely murder him ASAP. 

Username checks the fuck out.

[Trey3216 15450]

4 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

@NowThis and 7 of his best friends 

[Parliament 14559]

4 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

The HOA people better start watching their back...

And the company that sells McDonalds their milk shake machines.

[gofuckyourself 8939]

29 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

That's supposed to be the same backpack?

Both wearing hoodies.

Police have found their guy and can now shoot on sight.

[A-Tex Devil 2492]

I am betting the long odds on a Michael Clayton situation. CEO was about to cross street and tell his stockholders UHC is evil and the only way to survive long term is to reorient around the consumer.  Board tells GC to do something about it and GC goes all Tilda Swinton and confusingly orders a hit. 

[Surly Bevo 25655]

7 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

The discussion of healthcare costs and sources of greed and inefficiency warrant its own thread, but I'll jump in here. The entire spectrum of "healthcare" is tainted and would require a complete reboot which would cause serious damage to stakeholders throughout even if it is the best long term solution.

1. Education costs - Why is it so damn expensive? The costs and debt are major justifications for physicians' salaries. If I ever ran for federal office, I'd campaign to treat "healthcare" education (med school, nursing, may stretch into associated med techs and admin, maybe even dentistry while we're at it) like ROTC type programs. Tuition subsidized or completely funded in return for minimum term of service at some lower salary. Encourage opening more medical and dental schools. Lower the barrier to entry for more professionals, lock them in for a few years at a reasonable (perhaps "below market") rate, and more competition among providers when they are free agents. Universities have been jacking up tuition because they have unlimited demand and know people can just go into 6 figure debt.

2. Physician costs - Should getting into med school justify a lifetime of top 1% or 0.1% status? I realize not all doctors make that kind of money (family, GP, etc.) and I am biased by my frequent interactions with ortho surgeons, spine surgeons, sports medicine, and interventional/PM&R docs. Although not universal, the overwhelming majority of those docs make great money and are always looking at how to make more, sometimes unethically. I'm not in sales and don't worry about offending them, so sometimes I engage in this debate and they will lean hard into they deserve it because so few can do what they do (get accepted and graduate from med school? Perform injections or surgery after years of training?). There are many talented people that could've pursued medicine, and most that did were driven (on some level) by earnings potential. Defensive doctors often point at the debt incurred during college, med school, and residency as a justification...so we could eliminate that via #1 above.

3. Hospitals, ASCs, private practices - Nobody still sees these entities as anything but for-profit businesses, right? Hospitals and ASCs collect the lion's share of procedure reimbursements, and try to cut their costs by pushing (or forcing) the lowest cost supplies (medical devices, implants, third party services), reduced support staff (nurses, techs, admins), and ways of reducing physicians' fees and options. For private practices, doctors/owners go to as many business conferences as they do medical conferences to learn how to maximize profit, cut costs, minimize liability, etc. We could dedicate part of the great enshittening thread to this topic. Now we're in an era of private equity buying out hospitals, ASCs, and private practices (and dental and veterinary clinics too, for that matter), making the doctors salaried (more or less) employees, and reorganizing everything to maximize income and minimize costs.

4. Self-insured employers - Many (most?) mid to large size companies and municipalities have employee insurance administered through Aetna, UHC, BCBS, etc. but are actually self-funded. They collaborate with the brokers to set premiums, deductibles, fees, and coverage. Some employers look out for their employees more than others and take a big hit on these costs to offer cheaper healthcare, others absorb little to nothing of the costs and pass it right through via a crappy insurance plan at high premiums and deductibles.

5. Insurance companies - Not much need to add to what has already been discussed in this thread. They set premiums and reimbursements to maximize profit as much as the market will tolerate, while trying to minimize services covered.

 

All of the entities above are for profit (some will argue universities aren't, but come on). If they didn't make a profit, why would they be doing it? If they were out of the space, there would be less competition and theoretically higher costs and/or lesser quality and variety of service. How much profit is "too much"? As with all debates on capitalism, which of these should have prices capped by the government?  How much lower should the cap be than "free market" rates? How will such caps reduce the number of players and long term state of the healthcare industry? Would fixed, lower education costs cause some universities to drop medical and nursing programs? Caps on physician fees would push some out of the business (it already has a bit) and push other college graduate into alternative fields. Hospitals, ASCs, private practices, and similar facilities would not respond to lowered reimbursements by accepting lower profit, but through further cutting their costs in head count of support staff and quality of supplies. Forcing self-insured employers into coverage minimums and premium maximums could be possible, but they would offset it by reducing other forms of compensation to employees. Capping the profits of insurance companies could make healthcare more affordable in the short run, benefiting consumers. However, there are risks associated with reduced innovation, possible market consolidation, exploiting loopholes, and a potential decline in the quality of care. The overall impact would depend heavily on the specifics of the policy, including how the cap is structured, the level at which it is set, and how insurers adjust their business practices.

I don't know if it is soon because I think current capabilities have been oversold and there is a lot of risk management in this but I often wonder how much of the medical industry is ripe for being upended by AI.  I think nurses, bedside care givers, surgeons, trauma etc are fairly safe but what a lot of docs primarily do is take in a lot of information, bounce it against their learning and experience and determine a course of action (that the nurses and or surgeons then execute)....take that need down and all of a sudden you need a lot less doctors.  

Edited December 5 by Surly Bevo

[kevwun 16269]

1 minute ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I am betting the long odds on a Michael Clayton situation. CEO was about to cross street and tell his stockholders UHC is evil and the only way to survive long term is to reorient around the consumer.  Board tells GC to do something about it and GC goes all Tilda Swinton and confusingly orders a hit. 

If he had a soul, he would have never gotten the job.

[Goredho 17627]

CEO gets assassinated in NYC by Jake Gyllenhaal who escapes on a bike?  Tell me again we aren't living in a simulation. 

[A-Tex Devil 2492]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

I don't know if it is soon because I think current capabilities have been oversold and there is a lot of risk management in this but I often wonder how much of the medical industry is ripe for being upended by AI.  I think nurses, bedside care givers, surgeons, trauma etc are fairly safe but what a lot of docs primarily do is take in a lot of information, bounce it against their learning and experience and determine a course of action (that the nurses and or surgeons then execute)....take that need down and all of a sudden you need a lot less doctors.  

[NeverMarryAStripper 22241]

All I know is that when my daughter was without medical insurance for a few months between the time she got purged from Medicaid and the time she got put on my exes insurance she had to go to the doctor. tTexas Children’s gave me a 40% discount for paying myself and not having insurance.  That tells me that insurance companies are adding 40% to the cost of our healthcare.

[A-Tex Devil 2492]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

If he had a soul, he would have never gotten the job.

Right, but he met this hot minor that was denied care and cracked like Tom Wilkinson. 

[Deej 77671]

2 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

All I know is that when my daughter was without medical insurance for a few months between the time she got purged from Medicaid and the time she got put on my exes insurance she had to go to the doctor. tTexas Children’s gave me a 40% discount for paying myself and not having insurance.  That tells me that insurance companies are adding 40% to the cost of our healthcare.

Bingo.

[MissingInAction 25478]

I doubt it's the last.

There are desperate people who will become more desperate.

This is how revolutions start.

Disclaimer: I am in no way promoting revolution or the murder of anyone.

[Beau Vine 55824]

3 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I doubt it's the last.

There are desperate people who will become more desperate.

This is how revolutions start.

Disclaimer: I am in no way promoting revolution or the murder of anyone.

[C-Man 27685]

47 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

 

Versus...

 

45 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

That's supposed to be the same backpack?

 

Right. Not the same backpack, not the same jacket, not the same e-bike.

 

27 minutes ago, AbeFroman said:

This is more elaborate than we thought.

They got a damn terrorist cell!

[Armybrat 41320]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I wonder how the other senior execs at UHC are feeling about having the top office open now?

They probably are all taking impromptu vacations in the South of France right now.

[shakahorn 1655]

Not sure if it's hilarious or sad that the reward for information leading to the suspect is $10.000.  Just reading this thread at the millions and billions being thrown around and the reward is only $10,000.

[HenryJames 67116]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

 

 

[InkaUtexas 26800]

5 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

Not sure if it's hilarious or sad that the reward for information leading to the suspect is $10.000.  Just reading this thread at the millions and billions being thrown around and the reward is only $10,000.

Cuz no one really cares.

[po elvis 2137]

two jackets, two backpacks. he wears different ones at the hostel and starbucks. in an alleyway near the scene, he switches to the jacket and backpack that are shown in pics of the shooter. when he gets away from the scene, he switches back to the original jacket and backpack.

[Hagbard Celine 11159]

38 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I am betting the long odds on a Michael Clayton situation. CEO was about to cross street and tell his stockholders UHC is evil and the only way to survive long term is to reorient around the consumer.  Board tells GC to do something about it and GC goes all Tilda Swinton and confusingly orders a hit. 

a clayton scenario crossed my mind but would require multiple actors and lots of misdirection to fit the visual evidence available at this time

[Jkwellborn 7006]

All I know is that when my daughter was without medical insurance for a few months between the time she got purged from Medicaid and the time she got put on my exes insurance she had to go to the doctor. tTexas Children’s gave me a 40% discount for paying myself and not having insurance.  That tells me that insurance companies are adding 40% to the cost of our healthcare.

There’s absolutely a cash price and insurance price for everything.

[Beau Vine 55824]

2 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

There’s absolutely a cash price and insurance price for everything.

My daughter broke her foot in HS.  We went to the pharmacy to get her a walking boot -- $50.  At the register, the clerk tells us that insurance will cover this.  With insurance, the price was $125, and we had a $100 deductible.  I nearly killed someone over that episode, so I kinda understand what happened here...

[Hate 20232]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

GM has been having layoffs all throughout the 2nd half of this year. Last I check, over 2000 (probably closer to 3-4000) people were laid off. They'll have more layoffs next year.

They spent $10B last year and $6B this year (June) for stock buybacks. Was that the best use of their capital? Best use for whom, their customers and employees or for the shareholders and the execs and their bonuses?

 

Is that ethical? Is that wrong? Tie that decision and this country's insistence on tying health insurance to employment, and then having the leaders of those health insurance companies myopic drive for profit so that they can get their million dollar bonuses while fucking over their customers, it prob is ethically wrong. But yay capitalism run amuck.

Sounds like a CEO needs to pay the ultimate price!

[elfenix 34658]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

It won’t make a shit. They’ll just hire private security instead of having even a moment of introspection.

Apparently he was the only major health insurer CEO without security goons. Clearly, UHC denied his claim.