CEO of UHG Shot and Killed in NYC - WTF is wrong with you New York

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1108]

40 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Expected something more impactful from a Ivy League grad. 

 

35 minutes ago, Goredho said:

He's certainly no Ted Kaczynski as an author.

Kaczynski got into Harvard, not just Penn.  Duh.

[dimyh 1881]

Moving past whether to condone outright assassination attempts is morally acceptable or not...my question is for the Surly legal brigade. If UHC employs a tactic to delay and deny coverage because patients will die first before they can win an appeal does that open them up for potential civil lawsuits? If the families could prove that the failure in coverage directly led to death wouldn't that open up for a windfall in penalties?

Just wondering if hitting them in the pocketbooks could be more effective in beating back that corporate greed. Why isn't that happening? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

[rage-a-holic 4680]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

Or will we?

If a couple of rich left leaning lawyers got whacked this week, there's at least one ambulance chaser here that would have his whole family on a plane to Europe. Or threaten to.

[Incredulity 11850]

7 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

We just need a few copycats to start murdering rich windbag lawyers and software engineers. We'll definitely see a sharp drop in murder support around here.

[Da Fino 2818]

12 hours ago, B00M said:

The CAD file for the lower and the parts kits are readily available. People have been building these for several years now. This is the 1st high profile crime committed with a printed gun as far as I know. If it’s unclear, the lower (or frame) is the printed part. The lower/frame is the grip that holds the trigger, magazine, etc, and it is the legal firearm. 

I really can’t believe that this is the correct picture. Are people really stippling 3d printed frames? 

[Reynolds Woodcock 5050]

43 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Moving past whether to condone outright assassination attempts is morally acceptable or not...my question is for the Surly legal brigade. If UHC employs a tactic to delay and deny coverage because patients will die first before they can win an appeal does that open them up for potential civil lawsuits? If the families could prove that the failure in coverage directly led to death wouldn't that open up for a windfall in penalties?

Just wondering if hitting them in the pocketbooks could be more effective in beating back that corporate greed. Why isn't that happening? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

[DixonHur 11920]

8 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

We just need a few copycats to start murdering rich windbag lawyers and software engineers. We'll definitely see a sharp drop in murder support around here.

I can think of a few lawyers and software engineers I wouldn't mind being put on a list.

[Da Fino 2818]

I, sadly think this John Q stuff might pick up. Not just to insurance companies but also hospital leadership.
 

This is my first year to really have to deal with waiting for 3 months just to see a specialist for someone who means much more to me than the person that cut the fat. And I’m willing to pay out of pocket. Where is this going?

[freyguy 4359]

still better than shooting up a school.

[DDD Dad 14563]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:58 PM, Bullneck said:

 

 

What’s his surly handle?

[DDD Dad 14563]

1 hour ago, SurlyGator said:

It's lupus.

 

[B00M 6716]

1 hour ago, Da Fino said:

I really can’t believe that this is the correct picture. Are people really stippling 3d printed frames? 

Except unlike real Glocks, you can print them like that instead of sitting there with a soldering iron. You’d be amazed by the variety of textures offered. It appears the frame is a chairmanwon. He’s uploaded an entire Glock frame “gigapack” that has like half a dozen stipple types on a large variety of Glock frames 

 

[F250 29157]

9 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

We just need a few copycats to start murdering rich windbag lawyers

 

 

9 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

and software engineers.

[Beau Vine 55743]

4 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I blame Lyme disease. 

Here's a drawing of a spirochete.

[Da Fino 2818]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

Except unlike real Glocks, you can print them like that instead of sitting there with a soldering iron. You’d be amazed by the variety of textures offered. It appears the frame is a chairmanwon. He’s uploaded an entire Glock frame “gigapack” that has like half a dozen stipple types on a large variety of Glock frames 

 

Pretty interesting actually. 

[Gatorubet 30605]

3 hours ago, dimyh said:

Moving past whether to condone outright assassination attempts is morally acceptable or not...my question is for the Surly legal brigade. If UHC employs a tactic to delay and deny coverage because patients will die first before they can win an appeal does that open them up for potential civil lawsuits? If the families could prove that the failure in coverage directly led to death wouldn't that open up for a windfall in penalties?

Just wondering if hitting them in the pocketbooks could be more effective in beating back that corporate greed. Why isn't that happening? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

in Louisiana, there are no punitive damages for that. True, the penalty for bad faith, insurance denial is 50% extra of the dollar amount of the harm you caused an attorney‘s fees.  But seriously disabled people have no lost wages or loss of earning capacity claims - they already weren’t working.   It might be hard to say that their quality of life got worse, because they were on their way to dying when UHC withheld the drug /treatment that would make them live longer.   Are you going to recover something? Possibly. 

But big health insurance evil corp will save a couple billion dollars annually by denying claims. Who gives a shit if you have to sprinkle a couple million dollars here and there because somebody finally takes you to the mattresses?    You announce record profits and dividends, get the board to give you a huge raise, and do coke off the call girl’s ass on the board room conference table after the shareholder meeting. 

[PRONG HORN 3212]

 

[randomhorn 2090]

11 hours ago, dimyh said:

Moving past whether to condone outright assassination attempts is morally acceptable or not...my question is for the Surly legal brigade. If UHC employs a tactic to delay and deny coverage because patients will die first before they can win an appeal does that open them up for potential civil lawsuits? If the families could prove that the failure in coverage directly led to death wouldn't that open up for a windfall in penalties?

Just wondering if hitting them in the pocketbooks could be more effective in beating back that corporate greed. Why isn't that happening? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

They’ll just raise their rates to recoup the loss. It’s not like you have a choice in this marketplace.

[Captainant 28319]

31 minutes ago, randomhorn said:

They’ll just raise their rates to recoup the loss. It’s not like you have a choice in this marketplace.

A free market? In this economy??

[aggie08 21700]

2 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

The New York shitter?

[Brisketexan 106430]

9 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

But big health insurance evil corp will save a couple billion dollars annually by denying claims. Who gives a shit if you have to sprinkle a couple million dollars here and there because somebody finally takes you to the mattresses?    You announce record profits and dividends, get the board to give you a huge raise, and do coke off the call girl’s ass on the board room conference table after the shareholder meeting. 

This.  This is the model.  It works, really, really, really well.

Shit, I figured out that was the model when I was a high school age consumer and got utterly fucked by a stereo repair shop (yeah, back in the day when you had stereos you'd get repaired).  They fucked me outta $120.  It was a small enough amount that even with DTPA laws, it wasn't worth the time or effort to keep fighting it.  And I remember bitching to my parents that "even if they get popped one outta ten times, it's still a great profit model for them."  Dad knowingly nodded "exactly," and young Brisket suddenly figured out how shit worked.

Now, there COULD be ways for members of the public to address such bullshittery....but these outfits have successfully convinced the American people over the past 40 years or so that we desperately need "lawsuit reform" and such, making a huge swath of meritorious claims -- and the chief mechanism for requiring bad actors to change their conduct -- into nonviable claims that never even get off the launchpad.  Your state legislator is eating fancy steak dinners and smoking cuban cigars paid for with the premium dollars you paid for coverage (routed through a lobbyist, of course) instead of those dollars being used to pay your claims.  The ROI was great -- the insurers spent $X to buy favorable laws, and as a result, saved/profited 10,000X.  This is the part of the process where we remind the people that it's not just that the insurers fuck you, it's that you can't do a goddamned thing about it.  Any possible path to seeking a redress of grievances has been so obstructed/removed/obliterated that the insurers are now answerable to no one.  Except, of course, to the officials we keep voting for who are well-paid to keep that system firmly in place.

We should insist on better.  We should demand our officials allow for a system that gives human beings a voice and power, and we should refuse to vote for people who aren't on board with that.  I ain't holding out much hope for that, are you?

[sidis 9988]

13 hours ago, dimyh said:

Moving past whether to condone outright assassination attempts is morally acceptable or not...my question is for the Surly legal brigade. If UHC employs a tactic to delay and deny coverage because patients will die first before they can win an appeal does that open them up for potential civil lawsuits? If the families could prove that the failure in coverage directly led to death wouldn't that open up for a windfall in penalties?

Just wondering if hitting them in the pocketbooks could be more effective in beating back that corporate greed. Why isn't that happening? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

i think you may be on to something...perhaps a successful novel that translates well into a screenplay. maybe you could get these guys to star in the movie:

[ChickenSandwich 9915]

15 minutes ago, sidis said:

i think you may be on to something...perhaps a successful novel that translates well into a screenplay. maybe you could get these guys to star in the movie:

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13656]

44 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We should insist on better.  We should demand our officials allow for a system that gives human beings a voice and power, and we should refuse to vote for people who aren't on board with that.  I ain't holding out much hope for that, are you?

Our elected leaders are struggling to consistently deliver power to our homes. And by struggling, I mean struggling to convince us that it's not their fault. They're not doing anything else.

[Helobious 9738]

12 hours ago, freyguy said:

still better than shooting up a school.

I feel like this guy and the kid that shot at Trump would’ve 100% been mass shooters up until very recently (disaffected young men angry with life, yearning for notoriety). They fit the profile perfectly. For a long period of time it seems no one ever went after anyone in power, they would just shoot up a public place and kill random people. It makes me wonder if that’s changing somewhat. Everyone knows Harris/Klebold, Cho Seung Hui, James Holmes, Adam Lanza. But do that many people remember the El Paso shooter, Sutherland Springs, the Maine shooter, even the Vegas shooter by name? I don’t really think so. It happened so much that it’s no longer a great way to be remembered. 

People will remember this guy for a long  time. 

[Bevo 13804]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  This is the model.  It works, really, really, really well.

Shit, I figured out that was the model when I was a high school age consumer and got utterly fucked by a stereo repair shop (yeah, back in the day when you had stereos you'd get repaired).  They fucked me outta $120.  It was a small enough amount that even with DTPA laws, it wasn't worth the time or effort to keep fighting it.  And I remember bitching to my parents that "even if they get popped one outta ten times, it's still a great profit model for them."  Dad knowingly nodded "exactly," and young Brisket suddenly figured out how shit worked.

Now, there COULD be ways for members of the public to address such bullshittery....but these outfits have successfully convinced the American people over the past 40 years or so that we desperately need "lawsuit reform" and such, making a huge swath of meritorious claims -- and the chief mechanism for requiring bad actors to change their conduct -- into nonviable claims that never even get off the launchpad.  Your state legislator is eating fancy steak dinners and smoking cuban cigars paid for with the premium dollars you paid for coverage (routed through a lobbyist, of course) instead of those dollars being used to pay your claims.  The ROI was great -- the insurers spent $X to buy favorable laws, and as a result, saved/profited 10,000X.  This is the part of the process where we remind the people that it's not just that the insurers fuck you, it's that you can't do a goddamned thing about it.  Any possible path to seeking a redress of grievances has been so obstructed/removed/obliterated that the insurers are now answerable to no one.  Except, of course, to the officials we keep voting for who are well-paid to keep that system firmly in place.

We should insist on better.  We should demand our officials allow for a system that gives human beings a voice and power, and we should refuse to vote for people who aren't on board with that.  I ain't holding out much hope for that, are you?

 

 

Are the in-house attorneys for United Health evil and do they deserve to die for their crimes against humanity?

[Brian Fantana 6853]

Do you condemn Hamas?

[Bevo 13804]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

Do you condemn Hamas?

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6853]

7 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

 

Are the in-house attorneys for United Health evil and do they deserve to die for their crimes against humanity?

I would argue that those people are smart and know they spend their lives finding loopholes so their employer can legally kill people. So....maybe?

[Brisketexan 106430]

9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

 

Are the in-house attorneys for United Health evil and do they deserve to die for their crimes against humanity?

To the first part....maybe they are evil.  Depends on what they actually do.  I'll tell you that my career has taken me to a place where a big part of my job satisfaction is that I get up in the morning, can look at myself in the mirror, and be proud of the work I do and who I do it for.  A moral compass is important.  No profession - including mine - should discard it.

Again, imagine that you are an attorney, and someone wants to hire you to help them craft an iron-clad immunity from liability for building death camps intended to exterminate an ethnic minority.  You should decline that representation.  If you take it on, yes, you are doing evil.

And I have yet to say that anyone in this calculus "deserves to die."  What I have said, repeatedly, is that we should not be surprised by this turn of events.  We have ample historical reference showing us that when a system is created that fucks over people on matters of life and death, and deprives them of any functional peaceful means of redressing their grievances, violence results.  Don't mistake "it's inevitable that frustrated and angry people will take matters into their own hands, so if we want to avoid that outcome, maybe we should fix the system to take that impulse/incentive away" with "the victims deserve to die."

[aggie08 21700]

16 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I feel like this guy and the kid that shot at Trump would’ve 100% been mass shooters up until very recently (disaffected young men angry with life, yearning for notoriety). They fit the profile perfectly. For a long period of time it seems no one ever went after anyone in power, they would just shoot up a public place and kill random people. It makes me wonder if that’s changing somewhat. Everyone knows Harris/Klebold, Cho Seung Hui, James Holmes, Adam Lanza. But do that many people remember the El Paso shooter, Sutherland Springs, the Maine shooter, even the Vegas shooter by name? I don’t really think so. It happened so much that it’s no longer a great way to be remembered. 

People will remember this guy for a long  time. 

More because he's hot than because of the gravity of what he did. 

Otherwise, I don't necessary disagree with any of this. Killing randos or shooting up a school barely gets you a week of coverage, tops. Maybe targeting specific people is the new way to get famous. 

It royally sucks that that's where we are as a country...but it still beats more Sandy Hooks.

[MAUFRAIS 6710]

Solid use of repeatedly

[Bevo 13804]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, imagine that you are an attorney, and someone wants to hire you to help them craft an iron-clad immunity from liability for building death camps intended to exterminate an ethnic minority.  You should decline that representation.  If you take it on, yes, you are doing evil.

 

Is it really any different than being a criminal defense attorney for serial killers? According to the Model Rules of Professional Conduct everyone deserves representation.

[Brisketexan 106430]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

 

Is it really any different than being a criminal defense attorney for serial killers? According to the Model Rules of Professional Conduct everyone deserves representation.

Yes, it's different.  Because that role serves the function of requiring that the State properly perform its obligation to collect and present evidence and meet its burden of proof.  The adversarial system of criminal justice balances the rights of all, regardless of the facts of any particular case.  And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, it provides a valid mechanism for obtaining justice against the wrongful actor.

Short story: we can convict serial killers. We do, with regularity.  We functionally cannot hold health insurers accountable.  They are functionally bulletproof.

[NorthLoop 14410]

27 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I feel like this guy and the kid that shot at Trump would’ve 100% been mass shooters up until very recently (disaffected young men angry with life, yearning for notoriety). They fit the profile perfectly. For a long period of time it seems no one ever went after anyone in power, they would just shoot up a public place and kill random people. It makes me wonder if that’s changing somewhat. Everyone knows Harris/Klebold, Cho Seung Hui, James Holmes, Adam Lanza. But do that many people remember the El Paso shooter, Sutherland Springs, the Maine shooter, even the Vegas shooter by name? I don’t really think so. It happened so much that it’s no longer a great way to be remembered. 

People will remember this guy for a long  time. 

I agree with you about the Trump shooter, but not this guy. I think Luigi would've gone more of the unabomber route as an alternative to this. Hell he may have gone that way anyways had he gotten away with this one. 

[BabaYaga 15513]

3 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

I agree with you about the Trump shooter, but not this guy. I think Luigi would've gone more of the unabomber route as an alternative to this. Hell he may have gone that way anyways had he gotten away with this one. 

Yep, a targeted and specific attack on a person representative of a larger, corporate threat.  This is Fight Club shit.  

[Aqua Buddha 14764]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

To the first part....maybe they are evil.  Depends on what they actually do.  I'll tell you that my career has taken me to a place where a big part of my job satisfaction is that I get up in the morning, can look at myself in the mirror, and be proud of the work I do and who I do it for.  A moral compass is important.  No profession - including mine - should discard it.

Again, imagine that you are an attorney, and someone wants to hire you to help them craft an iron-clad immunity from liability for building death camps intended to exterminate an ethnic minority.  You should decline that representation.  If you take it on, yes, you are doing evil.

And I have yet to say that anyone in this calculus "deserves to die."  What I have said, repeatedly, is that we should not be surprised by this turn of events.  We have ample historical reference showing us that when a system is created that fucks over people on matters of life and death, and deprives them of any functional peaceful means of redressing their grievances, violence results.  Don't mistake "it's inevitable that frustrated and angry people will take matters into their own hands, so if we want to avoid that outcome, maybe we should fix the system to take that impulse/incentive away" with "the victims deserve to die."

 

[BabaYaga 15513]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, imagine that you are an attorney, and someone wants to hire you to help them craft an iron-clad immunity from liability for building death camps intended to exterminate an ethnic minority.  You should decline that representation.  If you take it on, yes, you are doing evil.

This is a little on the nose.  Let's not conflate actuarial tables to Auschwitz.  It's all based upon risk assessment and ROI.  Not defending these fucks, but they've been able to conflate the processes and compartmentalize everything so much that very few individuals are making these decisions.  

In the vein of keeping this as simplistic as we can, it "seems" the entire healthcare system is designed to keep you alive for as long as possible, but in a diminished capacity.  Pills for this, but not for that.  A hundred different "specialists" that used to just get taken care of by your family doctor most of the time.  I have to see this guy before I see that guy, to get this covered before I do that.  It's fucked.  I don't know who is actually at the top, pulling the strings - but the entire system is a giant self-licking ice cream cone.  

[Beau Vine 55743]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

The New York shitter?

[Brian Fantana 6853]

48 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Is it really any different than being a criminal defense attorney for serial killers? According to the Model Rules of Professional Conduct everyone deserves representation.

I think you're smart enough to realize this is a false equivalence. Criminal defense attorneys, by and large, aren't actively seeking ways to make sure their clients can continue to commit crimes with impunity.

[Bevo 13804]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I think you're smart enough to realize this is a false equivalence. Criminal defense attorneys, by and large, aren't actively seeking ways to make sure their clients can continue to commit crimes with impunity.

 

I don't know if I would call it a false equivalence when I was simply asking a question without judgement other than questioning brisket's strong opinions. I seriously doubt insurance companies have any more difficulty hiring for open positions than any other service companies. And could I work as a claims adjuster - probably not - I could deny bad claims without issue, I could deny claims based on clinical policies, but I couldn't deny claims just because. It's kind of a moot point though because I would be miserable in any large company and have left companies for moral reasons so I would think the same thing would occur if I worked for an insurance company.

[crash_davis 23461]

Since we haven't argued enough, I thought we'd get some hot opinions and maybe character assassination of the below.

 

[randomhorn 2090]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Are the in-house attorneys for United Health evil and do they deserve to die for their crimes against humanity?

Of course not, because they will make much money and are therefore wise

Edited Wednesday at 05:40 PM by randomhorn

[Vegas64 705]

Where is the line drawn between "responsible and ceremonial head of evil that can be assassinated" and "just doing a job, man"?

Board of Directors?

CEO only?

C-Suite?

CEO & EVP, SVP, VPs?

Director level?

Manager level?

 

[chainsaw 10215]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

functionally bulletproof.

I see what you did there.

[D_Goose 496]

23 hours ago, Parliament said:

Schizophrenia often comes on in the early 20’s I think?  Dude mighta been just a regular person whose brain just fell apart.  Not his fault there.  Biology.

Eta

Not his fault he came down with a serious mental disorder.  He needs to be tried and convicted of murder just the same. 

This is where I’m at on it. Seems pretty obvious to me.

[The Dog 44715]

[Armybrat 41270]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

This is a little on the nose.  Let's not conflate actuarial tables to Auschwitz.  It's all based upon risk assessment and ROI.  Not defending these fucks, but they've been able to conflate the processes and compartmentalize everything so much that very few individuals are making these decisions.  

In the vein of keeping this as simplistic as we can, it "seems" the entire healthcare system is designed to keep you alive for as long as possible, but in a diminished capacity.  Pills for this, but not for that.  A hundred different "specialists" that used to just get taken care of by your family doctor most of the time.  I have to see this guy before I see that guy, to get this covered before I do that.  It's fucked.  I don't know who is actually at the top, pulling the strings - but the entire system is a giant self-licking ice cream cone.  

My daily breakfast appetizer….

 

[Armybrat 41270]

49 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Where is the line drawn between "responsible and ceremonial head of evil that can be assassinated" and "just doing a job, man"?

Board of Directors?

CEO only?

C-Suite?

CEO & EVP, SVP, VPs?

Director level?

Manager level?

 

Shareholders.

[BabaYaga 15513]

9 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

My daily breakfast appetizer….

 

Would have been better if you had a handful of blue pills and said Mrs Brat, i'm coming for dat ass!