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CEO of UHG Shot and Killed in NYC - WTF is wrong with you New York


Bevo

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On 12/29/2024 at 6:45 PM, chainsaw said:

Do you think it needs to be?

This is where I become less sympathetic to the pharma industry. Like, we can't just quantify "the upfront risk" as some huge number as a pretext for hiking prices beyond what ordinary people can pay. We probably know more or less what percentage of drugs that enter Phase 1 Clinical Trials are going to ultimately get FDA approved, and I don't exactly think the odds are so much worse than any other business. Just pull the rip cord before jumping in to Phase 2 and save some money, or whichever phase, if you can't pass the phase you just paid for. Most of those sunk costs are probably tax advantaged.

Exclusivity, fine, but with some strings attached to ensure the monopoly isn't being abused to the public's detriment.

The reason it is expensive is complicated, and some of it for good reason. I can think of a personal example where the treatment, which provides a cure to a large percentage of patients, also is tied to a high likelihood of serious complications. Patients who get the treatment have to have it administered only in highly specialized treatment centers and have to have a bed in the ICU waiting for them (during a defined time period). Hospital costs are high.

Some of the other costs are incurred just for the trial. Hospital Safety Advisory boards, data management, the collection, shipping and analysis of clinical samples to understand how the drug is working (and for who), that is all massively expensive and while there are some ideas about how to reduce those costs, it's not always so simple or easy. Frankly, while our (and Europe's) drug development process is long, complicated and expensive the oversight is crucial to the fidelity of the results. They do a lot of things quicker and cheaper in China...and I (and many others) have a hard time believing most of the data. There's a reason why if you run your Phase 1/2 in China, and want to develop that drug in the US, you have to repeat the clinical studies.

As to 'more or less knowing what the odds are', that's not how this works...that's not how any of this works. You don't pull the plug going into phase 2 unless the drug had manufacturing issues or something hugely critical at fault. Phase 2 is where you actually start learning if it is 'hitting the target'. And even if it doesn't looks as promising as you hoped, as long as it's not unreasonably toxic, you try to learn what subpopulations of patients might benefit and expand that recruitment...in a phase 3. The complexity of cancer is that if 10 people who have lung cancer, each patient in effect can have a very different disease, and understanding those differences - and what patients stand to benefit - is critical.

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4 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

Hmm, have you been this detective like over “other” tweets and posts?

this is some peak Surly sand-in-my-vag bullshit. I have seen plenty of tweets related to a whole host of topics criticized on this board for misleading descriptors. I have no idea if Don Johnson commented on any of them, but who the fuck cares? 

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2 hours ago, Txzen said:

You don't pull the plug going into phase 2 unless the drug had manufacturing issues or something hugely critical at fault. Phase 2 is where you actually start learning if it is 'hitting the target'. And even if it doesn't looks as promising as you hoped, as long as it's not unreasonably toxic, you try to learn what subpopulations of patients might benefit and expand that recruitment...in a phase 3. The complexity of cancer is that if 10 people who have lung cancer, each patient in effect can have a very different disease, and understanding those differences - and what patients stand to benefit - is critical.

If what you're saying is that there's value in every phase of a clinical trial, doesn't that cut against the idea that prices need to be high to offset money wasted on failed research?

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