are there any anti-vaxxers here?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,539]

13 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Fucking Kentucky man.
 

If I had to guess he sent all 9 kids next door to get chicken pox to lessen the trouble he had to face if they all got chicken pox over a period of years.   

i don’t think this behavior is rare. If this was 1870.  But why not also try blood letting when they get a cold.

[Asithappens 974]

It's not all that bad to expose kids to chicken pox (ala "parties") but now it's not a preferred method to inoculate, to put it charitably. 

But as a leader, the KY governor needs to shut his festering gob.

[Viper 12,154]

24 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If I had to guess he sent all 9 kids next door to get chicken pox to lessen the trouble he had to face if they all got chicken pox over a period of years.   

i don’t think this behavior is rare. If this was 1870.  But why not also try blood letting when they get a cold.

1870? what are you talking about? That's what everyone did 20 years ago it's pretty much how every adult today got it.

[yaqdum 182]

piss on the guy, but for the kids' sake i hope none develops the ongoing shingles problem i have.

shingles.  used to be the only worry i had regarding shingles was shoddy construction in high wind.

[Asithappens 974]

2 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

piss on the guy, but for the kids' sake i hope none develops the ongoing shingles problem i have.

shingles.  used to be the only worry i had regarding shingles was shoddy construction in high wind.

Isn't there a vaccine for that?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,539]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

1870? what are you talking about? That's what everyone did 20 years ago it's pretty much how every adult today got it.

You think parents were actively giving their kids chicken pox in 2000? Can you share any reputable physicians or medical groups advocating that practice?

[Asithappens 974]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You think parents were actively giving their kids chicken pox in 2000? Can you share any reputable physicians or medical groups advocating that practice?

Well, first just b/c no reputable docs (stipulating that fact) may have been advocating that, it doesn't mean that some parents weren't doing it.

But I imagine some were (no data to back that up). For a while, the chicken pox vaccine wasn't a sure thing in terms of conferring lifetime immunity. Now it's understood that two doses are needed. iirc

And usually chicken pox isn't too serious. Not saying that pox parties are a good thing, but it's not like mmr stuff.

[Viper 12,154]

additionally you claimed it was advice from 1870 equating it with blood letting, but you're quibbling with how much it was used in 1999 vs 1989?

[relapse98 634]

16 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I hope he's still alive when one of his kids goes blind due to opthalmic shingles.

Maybe Kentucky will still have an eye doctor in the Senate they can use.

[yaqdum 182]

54 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Isn't there a vaccine for that?

there is a strong recommendation from the manufacturer that anyone with an active case should wait through 6 months of inactivity before doing the vaccine.  apparently you only have one shot at doing this, and if the stuff is active when you do it, you get no benefit.  i have an active case 24/7/52.  i can't take the cure.

now, i don't have the ex-crew-she-ate-ing pain that so many have.  just a burning itch now and then.  often several times a day.  very uncomfortable but not really into pain.  it doesn't break out into a real case but just simmers.  when i hang 'em up, my bugs may hang 'em up too.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,273]

59 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You think parents were actively giving their kids chicken pox in 2000? Can you share any reputable physicians or medical groups advocating that practice?

That's the way my mom tried, in the 70s.  I guess I had vaccination shots, too.  Not sure why she was trying to get me infected the old fashioned way.  My parents definitely were not anti vaxxers.  I recall getting all my shots. 

However, I did catch chicken pox when I was 34.  Holy shit was that miserable.  I've never experienced itching like that in my life.  Fucking maddening. 

I had my gf at the time bring me a snorkel.  I'd lay in a oatmeal bath for hours completely submerged to get any relief.  I suppose I'll get shingles in my old age.  Joy. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by DigglerontheHoof

[Viper 12,154]

the chicken pox vaccine wasn't licensed in the US till 95 or so and I'd imagine it took a few years to start being given to everyone. 

[yaqdum 182]

9 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I suppose I'll get shingles in my old age.

have you considered the vaccine?  if you haven't been active for a lengthy period you should be a prime candidate to take it.  it doesn't just prevent c-pox, it also prevents shingles for someone like you.

[yaqdum 182]

1 minute ago, Viper said:

the chicken pox vaccine wasn't licensed in the US till 95 or so and I'd imagine it took a few years to start being given to everyone. 

there are two vaccines now.  one just came out last year.  the effectiveness of the old vaccine for the 50 plus comedy act was somewhat putrid but did give some benefit to others.  supposedly the new vaccine is very effective for all who can do it.  problem now is availability.  the demand must be pretty insane.

 

[Parliament 14,368]

.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,539]

2 hours ago, Asithappens said:

Well, first just b/c no reputable docs (stipulating that fact) may have been advocating that, it doesn't mean that some parents weren't doing it.

But I imagine some were (no data to back that up). For a while, the chicken pox vaccine wasn't a sure thing in terms of conferring lifetime immunity. Now it's understood that two doses are needed. iirc

And usually chicken pox isn't too serious. Not saying that pox parties are a good thing, but it's not like mmr stuff.

Some parents also beat their kids, it doesn't mean it should be viewed as normal.  

Yes chicken pox isn't normally dangerous but prior to the vaccine, there would be 8-18K hospitalizations and 100-150 deaths per year.  The vaccine has lowered the deaths 84-99% depending on how its measured.  CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/surveillance/monitoring-varicella.html

I think its fair to saw that its bordering on abuse to get your child sick ON PURPOSE. Parents don't own children and can abuse them as property. Perhaps views were different in the past but many things that were acceptable in the past that would put you in jail today. Usually for good reasons.

 

[yaqdum 182]

the black plague did not disappear.  there are a few cases and occasionally an outbreak from time to time.  it was bad hygiene and unsanitary conditions that gave it its horsepower back in the day.

edit: people tend to snicker at advances like the toilet, but the people who did the inventing and the people who promoted the usage don't get anything like the credit they deserve for improving the lives of us all.

Edited March 21, 2019 by yaqdum

[yaqdum 182]

this software sucks the bananas right out of their peels.

[Asithappens 974]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

.

Except it didn't disappear....

[Brisketexan 105,569]

15 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

the black plague did not disappear.  there are a few cases and occasionally an outbreak from time to time.  it was bad hygiene and unsanitary conditions that gave it its horsepower back in the day.

edit: people tend to snicker at advances like the toilet, but the people who did the inventing and the people who promoted the usage don't get anything like the credit they deserve for improving the lives of us all.

I've said this here, and a jillion other places: the government employees who save more than all others put together aren't soldiers, firemen, or cops.  They are the folks who operate and maintain water and sewer systems.  Delivering clean water, and removing dangerous water, are the most important advances in public health and safety ever.

[Nolacycling 893]

2 hours ago, Viper said:

the chicken pox vaccine wasn't licensed in the US till 95 or so and I'd imagine it took a few years to start being given to everyone. 

I got measles, mumps, chicken pox in the 60's and yes there were parents that would put their children in contact with other family members who were contagious, especially if it was summer or xmas holiday.. You've got to remember that you were going to get it. it was going to happen and you didn't want it as an adult. My oldest child is 30 and never suffered any of these diseases. 

[Chuckie Finster 22,759]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

.

That dude's whole twitter account is just trolling.

[Asithappens 974]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've said this here, and a jillion other places: the government employees who save more than all others put together aren't soldiers, firemen, or cops.  They are the folks who operate and maintain water and sewer systems.  Delivering clean water, and removing dangerous water, are the most important advances in public health and safety ever.

Which is why Rebecca Marks can rot in hell.

[Parliament 14,368]

I've said this here, and a jillion other places: the government employees who save more than all others put together aren't soldiers, firemen, or cops.  They are the folks who operate and maintain water and sewer systems.  Delivering clean water, and removing dangerous water, are the most important advances in public health and safety ever.

We in rural areas wholeheartedly agree. My water comes in a pipe from 50 miles away. It NEVER runs out, and it's ALWAYS clean and delicious.

[Brisketexan 105,569]

Just now, Parliament said:

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've said this here, and a jillion other places: the government employees who save more than all others put together aren't soldiers, firemen, or cops.  They are the folks who operate and maintain water and sewer systems.  Delivering clean water, and removing dangerous water, are the most important advances in public health and safety ever.

We in rural areas wholeheartedly agree. My water comes in a pipe from 50 miles away. It NEVER runs out, and it's ALWAYS clean and delicious.

This is one of the things that a lotta folks in this country don't even know about.  Without the USDA, and a lot of funding/backing of development of such infrastructure in rural America, rural America would look like the rural areas of a lot of what folks would call "shithole countries" -- out houses for shitting, and often unreliable and even unsafe well water (not everywhere has great artesian water) for drinking.

[Dutchrudder 11,159]

lol...

[Asithappens 974]

17 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

lol...

 

Does that guy even di-hydrogen monoxide? 

How many people die from that horrible molecule?

[jimmyjazz 46,470]

1 hour ago, Nolacycling said:

I got measles, mumps, chicken pox in the 60's and yes there were parents that would put their children in contact with other family members who were contagious, especially if it was summer or xmas holiday.. You've got to remember that you were going to get it. it was going to happen and you didn't want it as an adult. My oldest child is 30 and never suffered any of these diseases. 

Correct.  The odds of making it through your life w/o contracting some of these diseases were very, very low.  So, it made sense to try to get it out of the way when the consequences were less severe.

And then, they developed a vaccine.  To forgo the vaccine for the disease is parental malpractice, in my view.  It's reprehensible.  It's stupid, it's anti-science, it's susceptibility to external divisive forces (including Russia) run amok.  It should not be condoned, and it sure as hell shouldn't be encouraged by public SERVANTS.

[jimmyjazz 46,470]

6 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Does that guy even di-hydrogen monoxide? 

How many people die from that horrible molecule?

Well, since you asked:

Quote

Data from the National Vital Statistics System, Mortality

• From 1999 through 2010, a total of 46,419 deaths from unintentional drowning (including boating) occurred in the United States, an average of 3,868 deaths per year.
• Drowning death rates decreased over time for all age groups except for adults aged 45–84.
• The average daily number of deaths from unintentional drowning on a weekend day was 48% higher than that on a weekday (13.8 versus 9.3 deaths).
• Since 2005, unintentional drowning has replaced motor vehicle traffic incidents as the leading cause of death from unintentional injury for boys aged 1–4 years.
• Drowning occurred most often in a bath tub for persons under 1 year of age and for adults aged 85 and over, in a swimming pool for children aged 1–4 years, and in natural water for persons aged 5–84 years.

Drowning in data

[yaqdum 182]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, since you asked:

Drowning in data

also a woman is said to have drunk herself to death.  too much of a good thing isn't a good thing.

[HenryJames 66,275]

 

[HenryJames 66,275]

 

[crash_davis 23,154]

not sure how i feel about this but i guess any public shaming of anti-vaxxers is a good thing.

 

Arizona police officers forcibly removed 2-year-old boy with fever from home, video shows

Quote

Arizona police officers forcibly removed 2-year-old boy with fever from home, video shows

The mother had taken the child to a naturopathy doctor with a 105-degree fever.

An Arizona lawmaker is questioning a local police department's use of force in removing a feverish child from a home after a doctor reported the parents to the state's Department of Child Safety.

On Feb. 25, the mother of a 2-year-old child, who is not vaccinated, took the child to a naturopathic doctor with a fever of 105 degrees, ABC Phoenix station KNXV reported.

The doctor instructed the mother to take the toddler to the emergency room as soon as possible, but since the child's fever later broke, she took him back to their home in Chandler, about 25 miles southeast of Phoenix, instead, according to a statement from the Chandler Police Department.

 

When the doctor learned from the Cardon Children's Hospital that they parents never showed up with the child, she called Arizona DCS, who then contacted the Chandler Police Department for assistance, an incident report shows.

 

Chandler Police officers first contacted the boy's father, Brooks Bryce, by phone to request a welfare check, which Bryce refused, according to the police report. When officers were dispatched to the home around 10:24 p.m. that night, the parents refused to come to the door and they could hear a child coughing and other voices inside, according to a police statement.

 

(ABCNews.com)  VIDEO: SWAT team called in to remove child with high fever in Arizona

Officers then "forced entry into the home" after DCS had obtained a court order to take temporary custody of the child due to a "possible life threatening illness," the report states.

"After consultation with detectives from the Chandler Police Department's Special Victims Unit, the residents were given a final opportunity to exit and take their child to the hospital," the statement read. "Upon their failure to do so, the front door was breached and the family members were called out of the residence."

(MORE: Nashville Police Department retaliated against officer who reported rape: Lawsuit)

Surveillance video shows officers in tactical gear dramatically breaking down the front door before storming into the home.

DCS agents then took custody of the boy and his two sisters, ages 4 and 6, the report states. Two of the children were transported to the hospital by ambulance, and the third was transported to the hospital by DCS, according to the statement.

View image on Twitter

The parents were not arrested at the time of the incident. Investigators will later determine whether to pursue criminal charges against them, according to the police statement.

All three children are currently staying with their grandparents, who were granted temporary custody by DCS, their mother, Sarah Beck, told ABC News. The parents are hoping to regain custody after a hearing next month, Beck said.

(MORE: Dashcam footage shows police officer firing stun gun at handcuffed suspect)

In a statement to ABC News, Arizona DCS said it could not comment on the specifics of the case due to privacy laws, but said the removal of the child followed a state law passed in 2017 that requires DCS specialists to obtain a court order prior to removing a child from a home. The law was amended last year to give law enforcement agencies who assist DCS to "use reasonable force to enter any building in which the person named in the removal authorization is reasonably believed to be," according to DCS.

Arizona House Rep. Kelly Townsend, who played a large role in getting the law passed, told KNXV that she believes the removal of the children was "an abuse of power" by DCS and law enforcement.

"I think we need to re-think where we draw the line when it comes to disagreements between doctors and parents and what level we’re going to go to to keep the child safe," Townsend said.

Townsend defended the parents, saying that since the child's fever had died down, they "felt it was no longer at the level that warranted an intrusive test that could be danger."

Beck's attorney, Nicholas Boca, said in a statement to ABC News that he believes the use of force by authorities was excessive and "should be reserved for violent criminals, not a house filled with young, sleeping children."

"The removal of Sarah Beck’s Children by busting in her door with guns drawn in the middle of the night was clearly unnecessary and well beyond 'reasonable force,'" the statement read.

Boca described Beck as a "loving and attentive" mother who has always cared for her children "appropriately."

"Sarah has a fundamental, Constitutionally protected right to the care, custody, and management of her Children," the statement read. "These rights do not evaporate simply because the Department of Child Safety believes they know better."

 

[jimmyjazz 46,470]

When your "naturopathic" doctor tells you to go to the ER, and pronto, you might actually want to go to the ER.

[GSU&UT 1,798]

No problem with the decision to take the kids, but it feels like we're getting closer to another Ruby Ridge with some of this.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,617]

Not just fucking Kentucky. Fucking Texas, man. Austin.
 

Quote

The temptation is strong to treat the Texas Legislature's whooping cough scare as a revealing symptom of a broader political malaise. If you missed the miasma, legislators were recently informed that they may have been exposed to highly contagious pertussis via an infected page, and were advised to consult their doctors or avail themselves of vaccinations from Capitol nurses. The greater worry was not over public officials – whooping cough among otherwise healthy adults can be quite nasty but is generally not fatal – but over hundreds of children visiting the Dome, including young children of legislators.

How many of those children remain unvaccinated against pertussis, and other serious but preventable diseases – polio, measles, diphtheria, etc. – might depend on bills pending before the current session. Sophie Novack of the Texas Observer recently reported on a handful of bills that would make it even easier for Texas parents to "opt out" (for reasons of "conscience") of vaccinations for their children, as well as require doctors to provide misleading information about the ingredients and risks of vaccines. Texas legislators love to play doctor – similarly nonsensical laws mandate misinformation to pregnant women about abortion ("In Texas, Three More Measles Cases and Four New Anti-Vaccine Bills," Texas Observer, March 18).

Austin was recently identified as one of several national "hot spots" for parents rejecting vaccination, with particularly high rates among students in certain expensive private schools. Vaccination resistance is one of those popular follies where the anti-government right meets the sentimentally naturalist left in mutually credulous ignorance, with the inevitable results of putting the most vulnerable among us – infants, the elderly, or others unable to be vaccinated – at greater risk. Diseases previously minimized by vaccination (e.g., measles and pertussis) have been steadily increasing nationwide, and one suspects it will require a major outbreak – perhaps among among a group of pandering legislators, or their constituents – before the public once again comes to its senses on medical science.

Varieties of "Freedom"

My current favorite among the anti-vaccine bills is Rep. Tony Tinderholt's HB 3857, which would forbid doctors from "discriminating" against patients who have refused vaccinations – even though those refuseniks might be endangering other patients at greater risk. Tinderholt, R-Arlington, among the more clueless members of the House "Freedom Caucus," is better known for his fervently unconstitutional attempts to outlaw abortion entirely. With any luck, his anti-vaxx bill might similarly die in committee.

These are the same folks, of course, who enthusiastically promote discrimination against LGBT Texans (and others) on the grounds of "sincerely held religious beliefs" (see here). As these ideologues understand "freedom," doctors shouldn't be free to protect their patients from communicable diseases, but under SB 17 (currently a GOP priority), they (and a long list of other "licensed professionals") would feel free to deny needed services to customers they simply dislike on religious grounds.

More of this madness in the article, here:

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2019-03-29/point-austin-whoop-whoop-hooray/

[GRHorn 105]

This is a tough one. Maybe it’s the anti-authoritarian in me, but I disagree with this story, big time. Any anti-vaxxer issues aside, there’s all kinds of times that people disregard doctor’s recommendations or orders in the care of people in their legal custody.  Can be gross negligence IMO such as, 

Kids who are so obese that they’re getting typically adult medical problems like type 2 diabetes or requiring surgical procedures to address things like sleep apnea. 

Kids whose dental care is so terrible that they have to have dental rehab performed under general anesthesia, sometimes multiple siblings the same day. 

Or how about people who have power of attorney who consent to terminally ill family members undergoing painful and unnecessary procedures?

What decides these? A case by case basis?

Then throw in the swat team swooping in at night to take all the kids from the parents...

[formermav43 4,606]

Yeah, the idea that a swat team is necessary in that situation is way over the line. 

[Brisketexan 105,569]

The article above is magical.

Let’s get this straight, Texas GOP. You love freedom, so....

1) you need to pass a LAW that allows a doctor to discriminate against patients, including refusing to provide them services, for a “religious” reason. So, we must pass a law to let Dr. Evangelical refuse to serve Sick Gay Dude.

2) you ALSO need to pass a law....FORBIDDING doctors from refusing to see patients who may be carrying deadly diseases that could endanger the lives of his other patients, especially infants who haven’t been vaccinated yet.

So, your doc can refuse to see a gay dude for “religious” reasons, but cannot bar Typhoid Mary from his office for health reasons.

I couldn’t think of a better encapsulation of Texas than that.

[Asithappens 974]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The article above is magical.

Let’s get this straight, Texas GOP. You love freedom, so....

1) you need to pass a LAW that allows a doctor to discriminate against patients, including refusing to provide them services, for a “religious” reason. So, we must pass a law to let Dr. Evangelical refuse to serve Sick Gay Dude.

2) you ALSO need to pass a law....FORBIDDING doctors from refusing to see patients who may be carrying deadly diseases that could endanger the lives of his other patients, especially infants who haven’t been vaccinated yet.

So, your doc can refuse to see a gay dude for “religious” reasons, but cannot bar Typhoid Mary from his office for health reasons.

I couldn’t think of a better encapsulation of Texas than that.

Hey, if English was good enough for Jesus then this reasoning should be good enough for you.

[Huckleberry 33,519]

Simple solution, doctors in Texas need to found a religion for which one of their guiding beliefs is protecting the body against devil diseases and in which vaccination is their version of baptism.

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,569]

Simple solution, doctors in Texas need to found a religion for which one of their guiding beliefs is protecting the body against devil diseases and in which vaccination is their version of baptism.
 
 

Ok. But the new church of “Not being utter dumbfucks” may have to refine its branding.

[High Plains Drifter 11,055]

On 3/21/2019 at 10:19 AM, Viper said:

additionally you claimed it was advice from 1870 equating it with blood letting, but you're quibbling with how much it was used in 1999 vs 1989?

Were they really blood letting in 1870?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

It’s been pretty obvious Barron is on the autism spectrum and Melania and/or POTUS blame vaccinations at least partially. I can say from experience the timing is what really scares people that have gone through it. It’s not surprising that people that have kids who regress after receiving vaccinations would blame them.

[TDunk 590]

46 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

It’s been pretty obvious Barron is on the autism spectrum and Melania and/or POTUS blame vaccinations at least partially. I can say from experience the timing is what really scares people that have gone through it. It’s not surprising that people that have kids who regress after receiving vaccinations would blame them.

Obvious? No.  But when you look at the other Trump boys, there are two correlating factors and vaccines is the other one.  

[Asithappens 974]

11 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It’s been pretty obvious Barron is on the autism spectrum ....

Lol. 

[GRHorn 105]

12 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Lol. 

What’s funny about that?

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,435]

What’s funny about that?

That you're claiming to know anything about the kid's faculties and abilities by the occasional footage you've seen of him walking with his parents.

[GRHorn 105]

13 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

What’s funny about that?

That you're claiming to know anything about the kid's faculties and abilities by the occasional footage you've seen of him walking with his parents.

Unfortunately I have a lot of experience with the subject. I’d bet most people with kids on spectrum would identify that in Barron. It’s what experience with your kid and hundreds of hours of sitting in therapy waiting rooms with other kids will do for you. The kids have tells, the parent’s interactions with them are tells. Then you throw in POTUS tweets on the subject and it’s pretty clear to me.