are there any anti-vaxxers here?

[formermav43 4,599]

36 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Seems to me he thinks it could work:

 

No, it doesn’t.

[Incredulity 11,555]

37 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Seems to me he thinks it could work:

 

Can you read?  I said nothing of the sort.

 

[jimmyjazz 45,558]

28 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Can you read?  I said nothing of the sort.

 

Then you're going to have to explain what "it" is in this phrase:

"Most of the kids got it beat out of them"

 

Whatever.

[formermav43 4,599]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Then you're going to have to explain what "it" is in this phrase:

"Most of the kids got it beat out of them"

 

Whatever.

Did you also think he was saying neglect is an effective treatment? 

Come on, man. This is silly.

[jimmyjazz 45,558]

20 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Did you also think he was saying neglect is an effective treatment? 

Come on, man. This is silly.

Yes, I did.

Yeesh.  Unclench y'all, it's Felony Friday.  I assure you I didn't actually think he was of the opinion that autism could be beaten out of a kid.

[formermav43 4,599]

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes, I did.

Yeesh.  Unclench y'all, it's Felony Friday.  I assure you I didn't actually think he was of the opinion that autism could be beaten out of a kid.

Oops

Unfortunately, it can be hard to know on this subforum.

[Incredulity 11,555]

Quote

Most of the kids got it beat out of them, neglected out, or institutionalized.(I am not saying those are better answers than current methods).

Read the whole sentence.

I never advocated abuse, but the truth is 40 years ago trouble kids got a whooping.  That's how it was dealt with.

[Anastasis 23,395]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Is there science behind all at once being necessary? Anastasis (who is a pharmacist, I believe) has suggested it’s not, and I think there was a doctor on shaggy who said so as well, though I could be mistaken.

 That’s not an “anti-vax” position, I’m legitimately curious.

I think that what needs to be kept in mind is that the vax schedule is a public health initiative. It is intended to reflect a single, coherent approach to addressing vaccine preventable disease in a way that can be consistently implemented across a wide variety of people in this country, representing a range of demographic and socio economic factors and variety of different levels of engagement with the healthcare system. It is a "one size fits all" program, for good reason. With that goal in mind, it works well, and stacking the immunizations is a critical component of the initiative.  So that's the science, it's one part health beliefs and behaviors, one part access to care, and one part epidemiology.

The population level epidemiological argument for the vax schedule is so compelling that to argue against it as a public health initiative amounts basically to arguing that the world is flat.   Now that being said, it is not contradictory at all to also hold the position that aspects of the schedule may not make sense when an individualized risk/benefit assessment is performed on specific components of the schedule. Population level vs. individual level. And further that heavy handed dismissal of the concerns that some parents have, and the anxiety experienced around the issue by many first time parents in particular, can be counterproductive to the ultimate goal to ensure that vax is achieved.

A final broader note that colors my thinking in general. People generally give the regulators far too much credit when it comes to establishment of drug safety during registration trials.  The reality is that the adverse event profile of a given medical intervention is not well understood until the drug is approved and you get enough exposures in a diverse real world population to provide the type of statistical power necessary to reveal these associations. This is particularly true when relatively low frequency events are being observed.  Shit, sometimes its a challenge when even high frequency adverse events are in play. Given the evolution of the vax schedule over the past couple decades, I don't think having some questions about the potential safety implications are unwarranted. There are specific examples in the vaccine world of problems after new products are released, e.g. rotavirus.  That's actually a great example of post-marketing safety surveillance in the vax area at work (and working well).  There is also ongoing work, based on an Institutes of Medicine recommendations, to conduct large scale observational studies to evaluate the safety of the vax schedule and examine outcomes associated with alternative schedules.  I think that that work is really important. 

[Brisketexan 104,620]

Good post, Anastasis.  Thanks.  Confirmed a good bit of what I surmised/educated guessed, but I don't have anywhere near the level of knowledge or experience on the subject.  Much appreciated.

[ndawg 1,242]

What is happening with all this reasonable and insightful discussion. Where is the constant strife and barrage of bad takes?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

32 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that what needs to be kept in mind is that the vax schedule is a public health initiative. It is intended to reflect a single, coherent approach to addressing vaccine preventable disease in a way that can be consistently implemented across a wide variety of people in this country, representing a range of demographic and socio economic factors and variety of different levels of engagement with the healthcare system. It is a "one size fits all" program, for good reason. With that goal in mind, it works well, and stacking the immunizations is a critical component of the initiative.  So that's the science, it's one part health beliefs and behaviors, one part access to care, and one part epidemiology.

The population level epidemiological argument for the vax schedule is so compelling that to argue against it as a public health initiative amounts basically to arguing that the world is flat.   Now that being said, it is not contradictory at all to also hold the position that aspects of the schedule may not make sense when an individualized risk/benefit assessment is performed on specific components of the schedule. Population level vs. individual level. And further that heavy handed dismissal of the concerns that some parents have, and the anxiety experienced around the issue by many first time parents in particular, can be counterproductive to the ultimate goal to ensure that vax is achieved.

A final broader note that colors my thinking in general. People generally give the regulators far too much credit when it comes to establishment of drug safety during registration trials.  The reality is that the adverse event profile of a given medical intervention is not well understood until the drug is approved and you get enough exposures in a diverse real world population to provide the type of statistical power necessary to reveal these associations. This is particularly true when relatively low frequency events are being observed.  Shit, sometimes its a challenge when even high frequency adverse events are in play. Given the evolution of the vax schedule over the past couple decades, I don't think having some questions about the potential safety implications are unwarranted. There are specific examples in the vaccine world of problems after new products are released, e.g. rotavirus.  That's actually a great example of post-marketing safety surveillance in the vax area at work (and working well).  There is also ongoing work, based on an Institutes of Medicine recommendations, to conduct large scale observational studies to evaluate the safety of the vax schedule and examine outcomes associated with alternative schedules.  I think that that work is really important. 

Yeah, what he said....

[triplelonghorn 27]

It affects then by giving then immunity to diseases earlier

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

2 hours ago, ndawg said:

What is happening with all this reasonable and insightful discussion. Where is the constant strife and barrage of bad takes?

Cowboys thread is over there.

[berlinerbaer 670]

 

9 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It’s not grounded in anything as far as I know other than suspicion.  

One thing that has caught my attention in years of living with this and reading what I can is there is a strong positive correlation between autism spectrum and atopic dermatitis, food allergies, and asthma.  Those are all mediated by inflammatory/immune responses.  It seems possible to me that autism could be a manifestation of some inflammatory process that goes out of whack.  Wouldn’t have to be from immunization.  Could be from an environmental exposure.  This is just my own speculation.  

So many unanswered questions.  It leaves room for all kinds of wild theories that youll find online  

The list of autoimmune diseases and disorders is long and the list of suspects is even longer and, yes, some of those are believed to be started by an initial trigger, such as a viral infection and the inflammatory response.

This, to me, makes it even more important to get vaccinated. The 6 hour 100 degree fever a one year-old gets following a vaccine is nothing compared to the inflammation of fighting a full-blown illness for a week that could have easily been prevented.

 

7 hours ago, udaydanceparty said:

Not so sure about that.  I'm pretty sure more people are taking their kids to shrinks nowadays than they did in the 70s,80s and 90s.  Plus, there is such a broad spectrum for autism, I'm willing to bet the general population was under diagnosed for the most part.

Not only that, but the breadth of the disease strongly suggests it may actually be several distinct conditions,  each with its own unique set of genetic causes and environmental triggers as well.

[Hate 20,103]

57K?  That's a whole lot of stupid fucking people.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/explainer-vaccination-debate-in-texas-can-be-divisive/285-586057440

 

Should you vaccinate your children? It's a question that here in Texas can be divisive.

The law here says you don't have to, and every year more students are going back to school without vaccinations.

Now, prominent Houston doctor Peter Hotez fears a measles outbreak could happen this school year in Texas. The data shows a disturbing trend.

Since 2009, 12 states: Arkansas, Arizona, Idaho, Maine, Minnesota, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas and Utah have seen an increase in vaccine exemptions.

But in Texas the data is startling. In 2003, parents of 2,314 students opted of vaccines. Now, it's more than 57,000. If you do the math, that's a 20 fold increase.

Phoenix ranked No. 1 as the worst city in the country where parents instead of doctors are choosing not to vaccinate their children. Fort Worth (#8) and Plano (#9) made the list too. But tops in Texas was definitely Houston, ranked 7th.

Locally, some area school districts do worse than others.

Last year, HISD had 92.7 percent of its students vaccinated for measles. Montgomery ISD was slightly better at 94.4 percent. Fort Bend, Cy-Fair and Katy ISD's all led the way with 97%+ measles vaccine rates.

Experts worry these numbers will continue to drop as more parents decide not to vaccinate their children. It's a decision that only increases the risk of disease for everyone else.

The anti-vaccine lobby is one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the state of Texas. It argues vaccines are dangerous for developing children and can cause autism. There is no data or science to back up that claim.

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

On 8/17/2018 at 3:58 PM, ndawg said:

What is happening with all this reasonable and insightful discussion. Where is the constant strife and barrage of bad takes?

Something, something, your mom.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

28 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Something, something, your mom.

negged !!!!!

[High Plains Drifter 10,977]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:19 AM, Francisco 2.0 said:

Oh, there are some  on here, just like Gary Johnson voters. You just know it.   Even though they were vaccinated themselves as kids.  

 

 

Obviously that's why they are so retarded.

[High Plains Drifter 10,977]

Any of you olds gotten the shingles vax yet? I got mine a few months ago, and it is the only vax that has ever made me feel sick. Fever for a day, felt like shit for another day after that. Shoulder was sore for three days or so.

I almost didn't get it (insurance wouldn't cover it for some asinine reason), then I googled shingles and that changed my mind with a quickness.

[Herpa Derpa 6,112]

On 8/17/2018 at 4:58 PM, ndawg said:

What is happening with all this reasonable and insightful discussion. Where is the constant strife and barrage of bad takes?

I got you, fams.

 

I'm a die-hard anti-vaxxer.  But only because I hope for a new plague to thin the herd.

[relapse98 634]

On 8/16/2018 at 2:03 AM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Most potential for danger, yes.

Most regarded... flat earthers say hi.

I don't know - I've seen some pretty nutty anti circumcision people. Get them going and they turn out to be real dicks.

[relapse98 634]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:38 AM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I am anti-vaccines.  The smallpox vaccine caused my dick to fall off, which was a  bummer. 

pm Troph

[jimmyjazz 45,558]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Any of you olds gotten the shingles vax yet? I got mine a few months ago, and it is the only vax that has ever made me feel sick. Fever for a day, felt like shit for another day after that. Shoulder was sore for three days or so.

I almost didn't get it (insurance wouldn't cover it for some asinine reason), then I googled shingles and that changed my mind with a quickness.

I'm medium-old, and managed to get shingles a few years ago (maybe 48 or so?)

The vaccine is worth it.  I didn't actually have that bad a case, but I eventually asked the doc for oxy-something, and I stared at that fucking bottle of pills for 2 days.  I'm deathly afraid of addiction, so I won't take any opioids unless absolutely necessary, but I came close then.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,281]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Any of you olds gotten the shingles vax yet? I got mine a few months ago, and it is the only vax that has ever made me feel sick. Fever for a day, felt like shit for another day after that. Shoulder was sore for three days or so.

I almost didn't get it (insurance wouldn't cover it for some asinine reason), then I googled shingles and that changed my mind with a quickness.

My Granddad had Shingles when he was 90. As bad as that was, he then ended up having a complication called post-herpetic neuralgia, experiencing intense, agonizing  burning pain at the site of one of his rashes for several months. He said it felt like being burned with cigarettes or matchheads. At the end, they ended up having to clip the nerves.

So, yeah, I'm gonna get the shingles vaccine when I'm a bit older. 

[Cacti 191]

Measles cases hit record high in Europe

Quote

 

"The majority of cases we are seeing are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on their MMR vaccine when they were children.

More than 41,000 people have been infected in the first six months of 2018, leading to 37 deaths. Last year there were 23,927 cases and the year before 5,273. Experts blame this surge in infections on a drop in the number of people being vaccinated.

 

Combine fraudulent science with an uncritical press 20 years ago, throw in a dash of stupid---and this is what you get. This is an example of how fake/misleading information can have dire consequences and how hard it is to counter once it is taken as truth by a small, but not insignificant portion of the population. And that's despite the fact that any reasonable person, after doing minimum research, can see that this claim against immunizations has been thoroughly discredited.  (no CR intended)

[Okie State 3,788]

The comments on the measels article I read earlier are terrifying. There are some absolute morons out there raising children.

[Incredulity 11,555]

28 minutes ago, Okie State said:

The comments on the measels article I read earlier are terrifying. There are some absolute morons out there raising children.

They are doing alot more than raising children. 

[Mole 4,320]

The anti-anti-vaxers are losing the emotional battle. It's scary sticking some strange substance in your child and autism is scary. Everything about parenting is scary, especially in our culture. We don't have the day-to-day interaction with these even more terrifying diseases, so they don't resonate as much.

We all know someone with an autistic child and there's this thing floating in our collective consciousness that vaccines might be linked. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant. It's just another thing to be terrified of.

I have a 1 year old child. I had no idea until he was born how much of our culture is geared towards stoking fear in parents. It started in the hospital where nurses where nurses were trained that "breast is best" and early issues with breastfeeding were threatened with the terrifying thought of formula rather than and easy, healthy, reasonable solution to a problem. Of course when you read the studies, the actual advantages are minimal and inconsequential. But we must fear and conquer our genetics.

When you get him home, you are inundated with ads and advice from everyone about doing or not doing these things will magically overcome your genetics. They try to make you afraid of everything. I have facebook messages from highly educated family members who apparently forgot how to read a scientific study but need to make me fear xyz based on junk science.

When you finally go to the doctor for the shots you've received so much programming to fear that it becomes perfectly reasonable to control something, anything, that the fear of the knowns of autism and the scary shot might seem bigger than fear of some disease no one gets.

[Hate 20,103]

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/boy-hospitalized-tests-positive-for-measles-in-houston/285-588240441

 

Health professionals at Texas Children’s Hospital confirmed the case to KHOU 11 News Tuesday morning.

“A patient treated at Texas Children’s Hospital West Campus tested positive for measles. This is a highly-contagious, vaccine-preventable infection,” Jenn Blackmer Jacome, assistant director of Public Relations with Texas Children’s said in a statement Tuesday morning. “We know vaccination is the best protection against measles.”

The boy had recently traveled to another country where he may have contracted the virus, but doctors will not specify where he traveled.

An investigation has been launched by the health department into all those who came in contact with the child since his time back in the U.S.

“We work closely with public health entities to continuously monitor highly-contagious diseases in our local, national and international communities,” Jacome said. “Our Infection Control and Prevention team immediately identified other children who may have come in contact with this patient to assess their risk and provide clinical recommendations. We have contacted all of those families.”

While they wait for final results, Porfirio Villarreal of the Houston Health Department strongly advises all parents to consider vaccination.

“The measles vaccine is very affective. With one dose at one year of age, it’s 93 percent effective. When you have the second dose between 4 and 6 years, it’s like 97 percent effective. Most people will not get the disease if they’ve been properly immunized and you do need the two doses at those ages,” Villarreal said.

The Centers for Disease Control say there are four things they want all parents to know.

• Don’t take the measles lightly. The virus can be very dangerous, especially for children five years old or younger. Doctors say about one in four people in the US who get measles will be hospitalized with conditions that can lead to brain damage and even death.
• The measles are contagious with a 90 percent chance of infecting someone who hasn’t been vaccinated.
• You may not hear much about measles in the US, but it does happen. There are about 200 cases reported every year.
• It’s up to all parents to vaccinate if your child will be traveling abroad, they should have both vaccination shots by their first birthday

[Whitman 694]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:50 PM, Mole said:

The anti-anti-vaxers are losing the emotional battle.....

 

Jenny McCarthy's tits are very persuasive.

[Brisketexan 104,620]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/boy-hospitalized-tests-positive-for-measles-in-houston/285-588240441

 

Health professionals at Texas Children’s Hospital confirmed the case to KHOU 11 News Tuesday morning.

“A patient treated at Texas Children’s Hospital West Campus tested positive for measles. This is a highly-contagious, vaccine-preventable infection,” Jenn Blackmer Jacome, assistant director of Public Relations with Texas Children’s said in a statement Tuesday morning. “We know vaccination is the best protection against measles.”

The boy had recently traveled to another country where he may have contracted the virus, but doctors will not specify where he traveled.

An investigation has been launched by the health department into all those who came in contact with the child since his time back in the U.S.

“We work closely with public health entities to continuously monitor highly-contagious diseases in our local, national and international communities,” Jacome said. “Our Infection Control and Prevention team immediately identified other children who may have come in contact with this patient to assess their risk and provide clinical recommendations. We have contacted all of those families.”

While they wait for final results, Porfirio Villarreal of the Houston Health Department strongly advises all parents to consider vaccination.

“The measles vaccine is very affective. With one dose at one year of age, it’s 93 percent effective. When you have the second dose between 4 and 6 years, it’s like 97 percent effective. Most people will not get the disease if they’ve been properly immunized and you do need the two doses at those ages,” Villarreal said.

The Centers for Disease Control say there are four things they want all parents to know.

• Don’t take the measles lightly. The virus can be very dangerous, especially for children five years old or younger. Doctors say about one in four people in the US who get measles will be hospitalized with conditions that can lead to brain damage and even death.
• The measles are contagious with a 90 percent chance of infecting someone who hasn’t been vaccinated.
• You may not hear much about measles in the US, but it does happen. There are about 200 cases reported every year.
• It’s up to all parents to vaccinate if your child will be traveling abroad, they should have both vaccination shots by their first birthday

Want to see this issue hashed out?

Sometime soon, some anti-vaxxer is going to bring their little infected petri dish to church, or some similar gathering place.  He's going to infect an old person, or an infant too young to receive the vaccine yet.  And that anti-vaxxer is going to be sued for negligence, a cause of action based on 1) proximate cause (my baby wouldn't have been exposed to a dangerous disease but for your petri dish kid), and 2) what a reasonable man would do.  As the evidence is overwhelming that the reasonable path -- by any measure, particularly statistically -- is to vaccinate, the parents should be found liable.

If you walked into church/school/the mall waving a disease-infected blanket around, you'd face consequences.

If you walk into church/school/the mall waving your disease-infected kid around, you should face consequences.

[HenryJames 65,890]

 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

If there weren’t helpless children involved here I would be 100% “Fuck ‘em, let them die of the pox”.

As it stands I’m only at 50%.

These people should be arrested for biological terrorism.

[David Dennison 18,657]

Do colleges still require students to be fully vaccinated?

[jimmyjazz 45,558]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do colleges still require students to be fully vaccinated?

No, but students must carry concealed weapons.

[Goredho 17,348]

Wife is, I’m not.  I had no idea it was a thing prior to kid #1 popping out.  We stopped short of irreconcilable differences and compromised at delayed vaccinations like GRHorn described.

I think it’s stupid and illogical but women are going to women.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

don't vaccinate message = population control.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Foosters 17,733]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

No, but students must carry concealed weapons.

Can't get smallpox if you're already dead.

[Elvis 3,356]

On 8/28/2018 at 7:58 AM, Hate said:

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/boy-hospitalized-tests-positive-for-measles-in-houston/285-588240441

 

Health professionals at Texas Children’s Hospital confirmed the case to KHOU 11 News Tuesday morning.

“A patient treated at Texas Children’s Hospital West Campus tested positive for measles. This is a highly-contagious, vaccine-preventable infection,” Jenn Blackmer Jacome, assistant director of Public Relations with Texas Children’s said in a statement Tuesday morning. “We know vaccination is the best protection against measles.”

The boy had recently traveled to another country where he may have contracted the virus, but doctors will not specify where he traveled.

An investigation has been launched by the health department into all those who came in contact with the child since his time back in the U.S.

“We work closely with public health entities to continuously monitor highly-contagious diseases in our local, national and international communities,” Jacome said. “Our Infection Control and Prevention team immediately identified other children who may have come in contact with this patient to assess their risk and provide clinical recommendations. We have contacted all of those families.”

While they wait for final results, Porfirio Villarreal of the Houston Health Department strongly advises all parents to consider vaccination.

“The measles vaccine is very affective. With one dose at one year of age, it’s 93 percent effective. When you have the second dose between 4 and 6 years, it’s like 97 percent effective. Most people will not get the disease if they’ve been properly immunized and you do need the two doses at those ages,” Villarreal said.

The Centers for Disease Control say there are four things they want all parents to know.

• Don’t take the measles lightly. The virus can be very dangerous, especially for children five years old or younger. Doctors say about one in four people in the US who get measles will be hospitalized with conditions that can lead to brain damage and even death.
• The measles are contagious with a 90 percent chance of infecting someone who hasn’t been vaccinated.
• You may not hear much about measles in the US, but it does happen. There are about 200 cases reported every year.
• It’s up to all parents to vaccinate if your child will be traveling abroad, they should have both vaccination shots by their first birthday

So was this kid vaccinated or not? 

[phdhorn 6,224]

40 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do colleges still require students to be fully vaccinated?

Only Engineering students.  All those feriners.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Do colleges still require students to be fully vaccinated?

My kid had to show proof of full vaccination when he enrolled.

[Hornius Emeritus 12,419]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:14 PM, Incredulity said:

They are doing alot more than raising children. 

 

Yes. Voting.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,414]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:02 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

My Granddad had Shingles when he was 90. As bad as that was, he then ended up having a complication called post-herpetic neuralgia, experiencing intense, agonizing  burning pain at the site of one of his rashes for several months. He said it felt like being burned with cigarettes or matchheads. At the end, they ended up having to clip the nerves.

So, yeah, I'm gonna get the shingles vaccine when I'm a bit older. 

I've heard some horror stories from acquaintances.  I will take a day(s) of feeling bad after the vaccine as opposed to excruciating pain and ugly rashes.

[safe sex 11,679]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

I think it’s stupid and illogical but women are going to women.

Oh my god, go fuck yourself.

[Larry T. Spider 1,740]

“Researchers dug into the world of anti-vaccination people — better known as anti-vaxxers — by looking at data from six of the largest, public anti-vaxxer pages on Facebook. By analyzing two years' worth of data from these pages, the researchers determined that these communities are extremely active, negative in tone and primarily female.”

Im not sayin, I’m just sayin.

[Chrispy 132]

Strange, now that you mention it, the only anti-vaxxers I’ve encountered have been women... 

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

The future is female... because all the men are dead or impotent.

[HenryJames 65,890]

These threads aren't as fun if 244335 isn't wishing death upon posters and their families.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

In all seriousness this anti-vaxxer movement is one of the most successful active measures operations because even well educated people are susceptible to fall for it.   Every mother on earth wants what’s best for her child and this influence operation preys on that vulnerability. 

It’s really unfortunate 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Foosters 17,733]

I know it's been posted before, but you could really slap this guy on every thread in here. Carl Sagan in 1994: