are there any anti-vaxxers here?

[Homercles 10205]

Everyone should read that book. 
 
By the way, I know for a fact that there's an anti-vaxxer who posts here rather often who has yet to show up in this thread, because he negged me for calling someone out on it on the other site.

For the HIV deniers...I’ll add you should read And The Band Played On. Incredible book and look into the early fear, loathing, chaos and straight up depths of bigoted denial in the early days of the outbreak.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Rotashield

Did it actually cause damage or was it withdrawn out of fear of lawsuits?   I’m just asking.   I tried googling it but can’t tell fear from fact on most of the pages describing the case.

[Anastasis 23395]

4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Did it actually cause damage or was it withdrawn out of fear of lawsuits?   I’m just asking.   I tried googling it but can’t tell fear from fact on most of the pages describing the case.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094741/

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094741/

 

I can’t tell from reading that whether there was definitely a correlation or just fear of one.  Mentions that 15 kids had got that condition soon after the vaccine but it would have been expected on average that 14.7 would have gotten it regardless if the vaccine had administered. 

But regardless good on the govt and drug company for not taking a chance.

 

[Anastasis 23395]

By the beginning of October 1999, 101 confirmed and presumed cases of intussusception had been reported to VAERS. The rate of reporting increased greatly after the July 1999 announcement of the temporary postponement of rotavirus vaccination. Fifty-two patients required surgery, nine required bowel resection and one patient died. Fifty-seven of these children developed intussusception within seven days of vaccine dose, and 70% developed their intussusception after the first dose. There was a clear clustering of cases from day 3 to day 8 after the dose of vaccine. In case-control studies, risk ratios of developing postvaccine intussusception varied from seven to 30, depending on the study and type of analysis. It was estimated that these data would have translated into around 1200 potential additional cases of intussusception annually in the United States if rotavirus vaccine policy had been fully implemented. Based on these data, the ACIP concluded that intussusception frequency was significantly increased in the first one to two weeks after vaccination, particularly after the first dose, and decided to withdraw its rotavirus vaccine recommendations (13). The American Academy of Pediatrics also withdrew its recommendations. On October 15, 1999, Wyeth-Lederle Vaccines announced that it was withdrawing the Rotashield vaccine from the market and requested the immediate return of all distributed doses.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

How many of the 101 cases would have occurred, on average, naturally or from unknown causes?

0?  50?  100?  

I’m not expecting you to be an expert on that condition or the vaccine.  Seems like that article is short of facts.   But once again, I think it’s great that they quickly stopped the vaccine to access.  I would hope they would do that. 

[Anastasis 23395]

If you are really interested, here are some of the pivotal epi studies from the time, a case-control study and an observational cohort study.

http://paginas.facmed.unam.mx/deptos/sp/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Anexo-10.-Murphy-T.Intussusception-among-Infants-Given-an-Oral-Rotavirus-Vaccine.pdf

https://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/2001/04000/Population_based_study_of_rotavirus_vaccination.8.aspx

 

And the post-marketing system surveillance system worked exceptionally well in this case. Which is precisely the point. The safety profile of a medication is not established until used in broad non-trial populations post approval. RotaShield is a very narrow example from the vax world, and a success story for the surveillance system. There are numerous examples of drugs approved by the FDA every year with post-marketing commitments resulting from safety signals that were identified during the registration trials.  It is how the system works, and why I think that an individual is justified to proceed with an appropriate level of caution with newly approved medications. 

[BrickHorn 18194]

Are there any anti-vaxxers left in Clark County?

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Aqua Buddha 14519]

What in good hell is she talking about?

[jimmyjazz 45560]

Well, it's true -- the baby boomers who are currently alive were not killed by measles.

On a serious note, 1 in 4 cases of measles results in hospitalization, as per the CDC. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by jimmyjazz
* that's 1 in 4 cases of measles in the UNITED STATES

[relapse98 634]

On 2/12/2019 at 7:20 AM, Anastasis said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094741/

 

What's really crazy is that 20 years after the vaccine was pulled, there still isn't a definitive count of how many infants received it? I mean - how many doses were sold and how many were returned to the manufacturer or were reliably known to have been destroyed? That would be your total max universe count.

</things_that_bother_me>

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[relapse98 634]

 

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

4 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

 

Unless new information comes to light.............probably wood.

[Nolacycling 893]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, it's true -- the baby boomers who are currently alive were not killed by measles.

On a serious note, 1 in 4 cases of measles results in hospitalization, as per the CDC. 

I'm from a time where it was a way of life to get measles. I also believe that it is negligent to make your child go through a miserable illness that could have been avoided in this day and time. However, I'm pretty sure that 1 in 4 measles sufferers in my time did not go to the hospital. Today's households without a doubt go to the hospital. They also get antibiotics for colds and the flu. My latest I-fucking-can't-believe-it is the modern parents telling me their kid tested positive for the flu! Tested! I'm going to open an office and tell people that their kids have the flu, a cold sinus infection or a sore throat strep. That'll be $109.95.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

I don't think many doctors prescribe antibiotics for viruses.  

One benefit in testing for flu is a potentially positive confirmation of what is causing the symptoms, and thus (a) no need for antibiotics and (b) symptom knockdown if caught early enough by prescribing TamiFlu or similar.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2659]

Boomers are obsessed with telling everyone how fucking tough they are and how they braved their injuries, illnesses, shitty lives and the shitty parenting they received. I think it covers for their resentment that people no longer have to go through some of that shit needlessly. 

In any event, they are insufferable and willfully ignorant. Not tough, though. Snowflakes, in fact, who are so very very persecuted and angry.

[Nolacycling 893]

41 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think many doctors prescribe antibiotics for viruses.  

One benefit in testing for flu is a potentially positive confirmation of what is causing the symptoms, and thus (a) no need for antibiotics and (b) symptom knockdown if caught early enough by prescribing TamiFlu or similar.

They shouldn't , but they do because of helicopter, over-protective parents who demand it. I'm sure the doctors get frustrated and just throw their hands up in the air and say WTF.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

I'm no doc, but I can't imagine doing that.  I'd probably suggest they find a different doctor.

[High Plains Drifter 10977]

6 minutes ago, Nolacycling said:

They shouldn't , but they do because of helicopter, over-protective parents who demand it. I'm sure the doctors get frustrated and just throw their hands up in the air and say WTF.

What they need is some sort of secret placebo "antibiotic" that only docs and pharmacists know is bullshit. Win win.

[Nolacycling 893]

AS pirin

[Nolacycling 893]

Yet about half of the 100 million prescriptions written for antibiotics each year are for respiratory ailments that aren’t going to be helped by a drug.

(MORE: What Doctors Know—And We Can Learn—About Dying)

Prescribing an antibiotic for a viral infection is not only wasteful, it can hurt the patient. More than 140,000 people, many of them young children, land in the emergency room each year with a serious reaction to an antibiotic. Nearly 9,000 of those patients have to be hospitalized.

So why do doctors write the prescription? Most do it out of habit or to make their patients happy. A mother brings her sick child to the pediatrician and expects to walk out with a prescription. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Ukraine had more than 53,200 confirmed cases of measles and 15 deaths during 2018. Serbia, Russia, Georgia, and Romania were also among the worst-hit countries -- collectively accounting for another 8,400 cases of measles, including 40 deaths.

WHO registered 22 deaths from measles in Romania last year, 14 in Serbia, three in Georgia, and one in Russia.

Russian Troll Campaign

David Broniatowski, a professor at George Washington University in the U.S. capital, has documented how trolls at the Internet Research Agency have amplified the vaccine debate in the United States and "eroded public consensus on vaccination" since 2014.

Broniatowski tells RFE/RL he hasn't seen any evidence that Russia has tried to weaken Western democracies by persuading people to stop vaccinating. Rather, known trolls masqueraded as legitimate users on social media and debated vaccines as part of their strategy to promote political polarization.

"It's a known strategy to infiltrate an interest group around a particular issue or topic and then slowly try to introduce new things into that discourse," he explains.

After "getting access to a vulnerable subgroup and getting followers from that subgroup" on social media, Broniatowski says, the Russian trolls would get their followers to retweet messages about other issues that are in line with the Kremlin's agenda.

They'd also retweet messages from known anti-vaccination accounts in order to gain credibility after infiltrating an anti-vaccination group.

By giving "equal time" to both pro- and anti-vaccination arguments, Broniatowski says Russian trolls and bots disproportionally helped legitimize and spread the dubious arguments of vaccine skeptics. "What we saw was the use by these Russian troll accounts of these hot-button issues like race relations and freedom of choice," he says.

One anti-vaccination tweet by a confirmed Russian troll account declared that "mandatory #vaccines infringe on constitutionally protected religious freedoms." Another played up the idea that the U.S. government cannot be trusted by asking, "Did you know there was a secret government database of #vaccine-damaged children?"

Broniatowski says other Russian troll tweets bolstered distrust in pharmaceutical companies and promoted "vaccine complacency" with the idea that vaccines are unnecessary because they target diseases that are relatively harmless.

Other Russian trolls played on fears by posting medical misinformation like "Natural infection almost always causes better immunity than #vaccines," and "Did you know vaccines cause autism?"

Edited February 14, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Aqua Buddha 14519]

There's a woman on my Facebook feed who is an anti-vaxxer and he's also big Q-Anon so that's totally believable.  

[DaysOff 7853]

Of course Hugo, it's all on the Russians.

[Asithappens 974]

50 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

There's a woman on my Facebook feed who is an anti-vaxxer and he's also big Q-Anon so that's totally believable.  

The transgender thread is thataway.  j/k

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[yaqdum 182]

i recall as a pup learning about the dark ages.  how an enlightened people reverted to ignorance and superstition and entered a very bad period.  i couldn't believe it.

i believe it now.

[Asithappens 974]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Targeting women with children is "The Mama Sow" syndrome.

Don't come between a mama sow and her piglets. Whatever species they may be.

[Homercles 10205]

There's a woman on my Facebook feed who is an anti-vaxxer and he's also big Q-Anon so that's totally believable.  

Yep. Posted here before about a husband and wife profile I got, 3-4x a day it’s posts about vaccinations, abortion, immigration. I’ve known the guy since HS but am 90% sure it’s just his wife constantly posting shit.

I’ve unfollowed but I’ve thought about just unfriending, being associated with constant fear-mongering just drives me to occasionally read the profile and get pissed off...I get enough of that listening to npr and reading trolls here.

It’s really sad.

[relapse98 634]

31 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Yep. Posted here before about a husband and wife profile I got,

Relapse's rules for life:

1) Shared social media profile means someone's dick was where it shouldn't. Either he got some strange or she had some strange in her. 100%. Never met a single one that didn't have someone who had fucked around, their trust was destroyed and this was the new leash on the cheater.

2) When someone starts posting shit like "Oh, I love my husband, we have the best relationship, *gargle*" - that means someone's dick was where it shouldn't....

 

I've yet to be proven wrong on either one.

[Brisketexan 104624]

Relapse's rules for life:
1) Shared social media profile means someone's dick was where it shouldn't. Either he got some strange or she had some strange in her. 100%. Never met a single one that didn't have someone who had fucked around, their trust was destroyed and this was the new leash on the cheater.
2) When someone starts posting shit like "Oh, I love my husband, we have the best relationship, *gargle*" - that means someone's dick was where it shouldn't....
 
I've yet to be proven wrong on either one.

In both cases, shouldn’t your third rule be “tits or gtfo?”

[TornACL 7676]

I don't care what the topic is, if you're being influenced in any way by mother fucking Facebook ads, you're an imbecile. 

[Gatorubet 30105]

5 hours ago, TornACL said:

I don't care what the topic is, if you're being influenced in any way by mother fucking Facebook ads, you're an imbecile. 

[relapse98 634]

Who is paying for the ads? Facebook ads aren't exactly cheap.

[Atx71 146]

20 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Of course Hugo, it's all on the Russians.

Yes, yes it is and Putin is counting on this dismissive attitude.

[Homercles 10205]

Always with the over exuberant flags. Just like the poster who noted ‘every married couple with a joint account or excessive posts about their awesome spouse’ are compensating (which is damn near a law it’s so true).

[Homercles 10205]

Facebook, google and cdc under pressure to curb the anti-vaxx trash

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/facebook-working-on-additional-changes-to-beat-down-anti-vaxxers/

[Francisco 2.0 32341]

 

[Rimbo 25783]

still waiting for pilotserror to show his face here

[Foosters 17733]

Just got notice that there is a whooping cough outbreak at my daughter's preschool. If any child COUGHS (no matter the severity or accompanying symptoms) they are to be sent home and cannot return until they have completed 5 days of antibiotics. 

Thanks fuckers.

[Brisketexan 104624]

On 2/16/2019 at 8:45 AM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Make it a condition of the license (which is what admission tickets are).  "Your purchase of this ticket is your representation that the bearer of the ticket has all legally available vaccinations for diseases X, Y, and Z.  Misrepresentation in this respect shall result in immediate revocation of this license.  Further, misrepresentation in this respect which results in your admission to the facility wherein the bearer transmits disease X, Y, or Z to a third party shall require you to DEFEND AND INDEMNIFY the facility."  You'd have to make it comply with local requirements for indemnity clauses, but I think you could get there.

Again, refusing to get a vaccine is an unreasonably dangerous choice, and a person should bear full civil and criminal liability for the results of that decision should they harm a third party. If it's such a smart choice, and there's no risk, then the anti-vaxxers shouldn't mind taking on that burden, right?

[Anastasis 23395]

The last thing that we need is more lawyers in healthcare. 

[David Dennison 18658]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

The last thing that we need is more lawyers in healthcare. 

 

[Brisketexan 104624]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

The last thing that we need is more lawyers in healthcare. 

No need for lawyers IN healthcare.  Just there to clean up the mess you make if you utterly fuck up your healthcare decisions.  If you want to turn yourself into a vector of death, have at it.  Just be ready to face the consequences of your decisions killing someone else.

[Anastasis 23395]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No need for lawyers IN healthcare.  Just there to clean up the mess you make if you utterly fuck up your healthcare decisions.  If you want to turn yourself into a vector of death, have at it.  Just be ready to face the consequences of your decisions killing someone else.

A low risk family opts out of a hep b vaccine when their newborn pops out of the womb, choosing instead to delay to a reasonable time frame for administration.  VECTORS OF DEATH!

[Bozo_Casanova 26283]

I want to call my metal band Vëctors of Death

[Anastasis 23395]

Its what I call my propensity score modeling methodology. 

[Brisketexan 104624]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

A low risk family opts out of a hep b vaccine when their newborn pops out of the womb, choosing instead to delay to a reasonable time frame for administration.  VECTORS OF DEATH!

Naah, they'd face the same reasonableness analysis that any person engaging in any activity does.  You actually used "reasonable" in your example.  So, it's a shitty example.  But you knew that.  You just wanted to tee up Bozo's kickass metal band joke.