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are there any anti-vaxxers here?

Gil Bang

By Gil Bang
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GRHorn
GRHorn

Against my better judgment I’ll share here. My oldest son is on the spectrum. His development was seemingly normal until around 2 years old. I don’t remember the exact date, in a lot of ways I have bl

Anastasis
Anastasis

I think that what needs to be kept in mind is that the vax schedule is a public health initiative. It is intended to reflect a single, coherent approach to addressing vaccine preventable disease in a

TexArcher
TexArcher

I'm all for civil liberties, too.  But yours end where mine begin, and herd immunity is a real thing. Parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids shouldn't be allowed to put them in public schools

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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7 minutes ago, scottsins said:

My wife has co-workers that have taken sick days, fucking over the rest of the staff, in order to care for their flu-ridden children, whom they did not vaccinate.

im sure it’s frowned upon, but that should be grounds for termination, in my opinion.

Annual flu vaccines aren’t the same as the regular youth vac schedule.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Texas state Representative Bill Zedler doesn’t understand the fuss over the resurgence of infectious diseases. “When I grew up, I had a lot of these illnesses,” he said, listing measles, mumps and chickenpox. “They wanted me to stay at home. But as far as being sick in bed, it wasn’t anything like that,” said Zedler, an outspoken anti-vaxxer and longtime member of the House Public Health Committee who has worked in the health-care industry. The only lawmaker with an A++ rating from Texans for Vaccine Choice, he was born in 1943, two decades before the measles vaccine was developed. During Zedler’s childhood, about 450 people died of measles each year in the United States, 48,000 were hospitalized and a few million more got the disease, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The introduction of the measles vaccine in 1963 virtually eliminated measles in the United States by 2000.

“They want to say people are dying of measles. Yeah, in third-world countries they’re dying of measles,” Zedler said, shaking his head. “Today, with antibiotics and that kind of stuff, they’re not dying in America.” Zedler says he’s adamantly in favor of “freedom of conscience” and against mandatory vaccination. “This is not the Soviet Union, you know.”

Getting measles to own the libs.

https://www.texasobserver.org/amid-measles-outbreak-texas-lawmakers-want-to-make-it-even-easier-to-opt-out-of-vaccines/

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10977

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15 hours ago, Nolacycling said:

Meh, flu vaccine is about 33% effective, not on the same playing field as measles, etc... Sounds like your life sucks because your wife complains.

 

So, you are only 33% of a dumbfuck in that case?

 

BTW, flu vacs also lessen the symptoms if you do get the flu. So, maybe only miss one day of work instead of two, maybe a fever of 102 instead of 104, etc.

 

But, yeah, meh.

 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25783

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3 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Pro-freedom, you mean.

Ah, yes, like having the freedom to murder anyone you want, to drop poison into the nation's water supply, to rape and pillage with the best of 'em... that kind of freedom, sure.

But this is not 'Nam, Fozzz. This is bowling. There are rules. AM I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE RULES?! MARK IT ZERO!

Your freedom of choice ends when your choice ends up killing hundreds of children. That's how this works. If you want the freedom to not be vaccinated, then I recommend you exercise your freedom to get the fuck out of the country. Go contaminate some other place with your filth and disease.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25783

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17 hours ago, scottsins said:

 


No shit?

 

No shit.

They have to anticipate what each year's flu virus is going to be like, so whether or not the vaccine actually hits that target is hit or miss. Whereas with measles, smallpox, polio, etc etc, we know exactly what we're targeting.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32340

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Well, isn't this just wonderful.  

Not all that surprising, really.   Since both groups are equally rabid:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxxers-are-cozying-up-to-the-far-right-online?ref=home

 

Quote

Often, sometimes multiple times a day, users in an anti-vaccination Facebook group post a link to a 2017 article about vaccine laws in Sweden. 

“Nice!” one group member captioned the article last week.

“Amazing,” “interesting,” wrote two people who shared the article in the 150,000-member group on the same late January day.

 

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The article wasn’t from a medical news source, though, or even another anti-vaccine group. It came from a white supremacist website, Red Ice.

The anti-vaxxer movement, comprised of people who falsely believe vaccines are dangerous, is ascendant. In 2019, the World Health Organization named “vaccine hesitancy” one of the top 10 threats to global health, the first time it made the list. The movement is credited with contributing to ongoing measles outbreaks worldwide, including an outbreak of approximately 70 people in Washington state. But that’s not all it’s spreading. Like other conspiracy movements, the anti-vaxxer movement has rubbed shoulders with the far right.

 

Spoiler

New studies reveal vaccine skepticism to be a strong predictor for populist politics in Europe, where many populist candidates run on a hard-right line. And fringe media outlets are seizing on the sympathy from the anti-vax movement, pushing even more extreme conspiracy theories under the guise of vaccine skepticism.

White supremacist website Red Ice has churned out at least 100 articles and radio clips bashing vaccines in recent years. Links to those articles appear regularly in closed anti-vaxxer Facebook groups, a number of which boast more than 150,000 members. Unlike Facebook pages, which any user can read, these closed groups can be hotbeds of political activity and harassment, in which members coordinate attacks on pro-vaccine doctors and activists, as the Guardian reported.

Far-right news sites can find a serious audience in these highly active conspiracy communities. One 2017 Red Ice article has repeatedly made the rounds in large anti-vax groups, sometimes racking up more than 1,000 likes. Although the article skews right wing (it lauds a clip from the Tucker Carlson’s show) and alarmist (vaccines “can seriously injure your child”), it isn’t overtly white supremacist. But should anti-vaxxers chose to explore the rest of the site, they would find a white supremacist swamp, full of anti-immigrant and Islamophobic fear-mongering.

Most anti-vaxxers are not white supremacists, far from it. But the overlap can send some well-meaning parents down the rabbit hole. Far-right groups frequently engage in “entryism,” a tactic that involves seeding a sympathetic mainstream group with extremist ideology, then slowly radicalizing its members. The tactic works well in groups like the anti-vax community. 

At their surface level, anti-vax claims tap into populist grievances with bipartisan support; in the U.S., where health care can be prohibitively expensive, vaccines are sometimes seen as an extension of well-moneyed pharmaceutical companies. But the world of conservative-leaning conspiracy sites take the claims further. Red Ice, Infowars, and their ilk build on the mistrust of pharmaceutical companies to claim vaccines are part of a world-domination scheme by a shadowy global elite. As these claims typically go, the conspiracy theory gets anti-Semitic, with white supremacists interpreting “elite” to mean Jewish people.

As anti-vax spreads into the internet’s fringes, it mingles with other far-right conspiracy theories. 

Natural News, a right-wing conspiracy site with 2.9 million likes on Facebook, is one of the primary sources of anti-vaxxer content, according to The Atlantic. A recent anti-abortion article on Natural News accuses “the political Left in America” of advocating for child murder, and warns that government “vaccine enforcer” teams are about to start vaccinating children at gunpoint. In a 10,000-member Facebook group for those who believe certain people (usually blonde or red-headed) are a superior race unrelated to the rest of humanity, members offered a series of arguments against vaccination, including the claim that vaccinations constitute race-mixing.

But entryist techniques aren’t entirely to blame for the anti-vax movement’s right-wing streak. A pair of recent studies suggests anti-vaxxers tend to hold worldviews compatible with right-wing populism.

A March study by Australian researchers used a theory that tests for five character traits, including a person’s respect for “purity,” and their deference to authority. Anti-vax parents tested high for belief in purity (defined by researchers as “an abhorrence for impurity of body”) and low on respect for authority.

Conservatives typically score high on respect for purity and authority, while liberals score lower. But populist movements, including Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, borrow some of the left’s anti-authority language, casting themselves as anti-elite. On Facebook, anti-vaxxers might rage against the authority of pharmaceutical companies or school vaccination policies, but Trump is a less common target. (Trump has promoted anti-vax conspiracies, too, falsely claiming in 2014 that vaccines cause autism.)

Other conservatives have painted their anti-vax stances as anti-authoritarian by claiming vaccinations are communist. “The idea that we force someone to give up their liberty for the sake of the collective is not based on American values but rather, Communist,” Kelly Townsend, a Republican anti-vaxxer in Arizona’s state House, wrote in a Thursday Facebook post.

The trend is even clearer in Europe, where a study published in February in the European Journal of Public Health suggests “a connection between the rise of political populism and vaccine hesitancy.”

The study found an overlap between measles outbreaks in France, Greece, and Italy, and the rise of populist parties in those regions. In all three, more than 15 percent of respondents said they did not believe vaccines are effective. (Vaccination programs are most effective when at least 95 percent of the population is vaccinated.)

“It seems likely that scientific populism is driven by similar feelings to political populism – ie profound distrust of elites and experts by disenfranchised and marginalised parts of the population,” the study’s author wrote, according to the Guardian. A December 2018 investigation by the Guardian found similar overlap between populist votes and anti-vaxxers in the U.S. and Poland.

In Ireland, the merger of anti-vaxxer conspiracy and right-wing populism marches in the streets. Participants in Dublin “Yellow Vest” protests in January shouted anti-immigrant slogans while simultaneously protesting vaccines, Ireland’s Journal reported. The Yellow Vests, initially a French protest movement with support from the populist left and right, has taken on a more conspiratorial right-wing tone abroad, with Canadian and British Yellow Vests using the movement to push anti-immigrant rhetoric and the QAnon conspiracy theory. Members of right-wing extremist groups have marched in the Canadian and British demonstrations.

Some Facebook groups for Ireland’s Yellow Vest movement were “dominated by fringe conspiracy theory views and share debunked articles from untrustworthy news sources,” including false health claims about fluoride, the Journal reported.

Some of those health claims linked back to Awareness Act, a conspiracy site currently pushing the bogus claim about blondes and redheads belonging to a master race unrelated to the rest of humanity.

Eventually, all of it—the conspiracy theories, the skepticism of some unseen authority, the right-wing populism—coalesces. On Natural News, the American anti-vaxxer site with nearly 3 million likes, an article claims the government will start forcefully vaccinating children against their parents’ will. 

The article, which argues against gun laws, has spent the past two days at the top of the Natural News site with a provocative title:

“A serious question: When will the first ‘vaccine enforcers’ be shot by parents defending their children against the felony assault of forced immunizations?”

 

 

 

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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No shit.
They have to anticipate what each year's flu virus is going to be like, so whether or not the vaccine actually hits that target is hit or miss. Whereas with measles, smallpox, polio, etc etc, we know exactly what we're targeting.


Of course. What difference does that make though? The numbers calculation still results in a “no-brainer” decision to get the flu shot every year.
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TDunk

TDunk 590

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2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

This compelling scientific data will surely convince the kind of people who find Jenny McCarthy credible on matters of public health.  

The masked singer did turn out to be Autism dressed up as a vaccine.  

rs_600x600-190226112000-600x600.the-mask

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relapse98

relapse98 634

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"directly funding"

Meh. That headline makes it sound like Amazon has a line item in the budget that says 'Anti vax propaganda' whereas the truth is its a marketing tool that has a bazillion (enough to fill up a 1496 page pdf in teeny tiny print) organizations that receive some money because someone used their link to purchase stuff at Amazon.

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Hate

Hate 20103

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Since this is then de facto flu vaccine thread as well, I just want to say that they may have swung and missed this year. My wife and son both have Flu Type A at the moment. The school nurse where my wife works said that 53 kids were out with the flu yesterday. I’m crossing my fingers that I don’t get it.

 

 

 

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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Song this is then we facto flu vaccine thread as well, I just want to say that they may have swung and missed this year. My wife and son both have Flu Type A at the moment. The school nurse where my wife works said that 53 kids were out with the flu yesterday. I’m crossing my fingers that I don’t get it.
 


On the bright side, it’s very likely that the vaccinated people will suffer a shorter duration/less severe set of symptoms.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45558

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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Says the guy who wants to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

. . . and his characterization of the "guesswork" involved in creating the annual flu vaccine fails to acknowledge that here in the western hemisphere it's not a crapshoot, because we have the advantage of knowing what's spreading earlier in other parts of the world.

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Hate

Hate 20103

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On the bright side, it’s very likely that the vaccinated people will suffer a shorter duration/less severe set of symptoms.


That’s true. They both are on Tamiflu right now and it seems to be helping. We all 3 got the shot as we do every year. They both are at the school where my wife works which seems to be ground zero. I’m using copious amounts of hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes to try to dance around it.
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21735

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21 hours ago, Asithappens said:

What's that movie that shows one night during the year when anything goes? The Purge?

The next sequel needs to be: The Purge - Anti-Vaxxer Takedown, where the anti-vaxx parents are hunted down and, well, whatever happens in that movie.

 

Of course we shouldn't hunt down and kill anti-vaxxer parents.  Of course we shouldn't.

tenor.gif?itemid=9148207

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32340

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No words.  Other than the need their parental rights taken away.  You don't watch your child spend 47 days in ICU because you refused to get him vaccinated, then once he is healed, you still refuse the vaccine.  

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03/boy-spent-47-agonizing-days-in-icu-with-tetanus-parents-still-refuse-vaccines/

 

Quote

The young son of anti-vaccine parents endured excruciating pain and spent 47 days in pediatric intensive care after contracting tetanus, a devastating bacterial infection easily prevented by vaccines.

Despite the nightmarish ordeal, his parents still refused to have him vaccinated, according to health officials in Oregon who helped treat the boy. They reported the boy’s harrowing case Friday, March 8, in Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, an online publication from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

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The six-year-old Oregon boy contracted tetanus—also called lockjaw—innocently enough. He got a cut on his forehead while playing on his family’s farm in 2017. The boy’s wound was treated and sutured at home. Six days later, he showed signs of tetanus.

Tetanus is caused by the bacterium Clostridium tetani, which is found in soil and produces a toxin that causes painful muscle contractions. The boy’s symptoms started as crying fits, jaw clenching, muscle spasms, and neck and back arching. The same day, he started having trouble breathing, at which point his parents contacted emergency medical services, who quickly air-lifted him to a pediatric medical center.

 

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When he arrived at the hospital he was suffering jaw muscle spasms. He indicated he wanted some water but couldn’t open his mouth enough to drink it. Some of his muscles necessary for breathing also started spasming, throwing the boy into respiratory distress. He had to be sedated, intubated, and placed on mechanical ventilation.

 

Spoiler

At this point, doctors admitted him to the intensive care unit, where they kept him in a dark room with ear plugs to avoid stimulating him, which can exacerbate the muscle spasms. They treated him with antibiotics and gave him a shot of a tetanus vaccine (DTaP). Still, his condition worsened. His heart raced, his blood pressure went up, and his body temperature spiked to nearly 105 degrees Fahrenheit. Doctors gave him multiple intravenous drugs to control his blood pressure, pain, and muscle spasms. They also performed a tracheostomy, cutting a hole in his neck for prolonged ventilator support.

The boy stayed like this for 35 days.

At that point, the doctors were able to wean him off the drugs for muscle spasms over five days. On day 44 of his hospital stay, he came off the ventilator and tolerated drinking clear liquids. On day 47, he was moved out of the ICU and into an intermediate care unit at the hospital. Three days later he was able to walk 20 feet—but he needed assistance.

On day 57, he was released from the hospital and transferred to a rehabilitation center. He spent another 17 days there. And it took another month after his rehab before he was back to his old activities, including running and riding a bike.

Despite the heart-wrenching saga and “extensive review of the risks and benefits of tetanus vaccination by physicians,” his parents refused another DTaP vaccination—and all other recommended vaccines. That means he’s still vulnerable to a whole slew of vaccine-preventable illnesses and could one day get tetanus again.

The doctors noted that his hospital bill totaled $811,929, which is about 72 times the average hospital bill for children. And that bill does not include air-transport and rehab costs.

They also noted that the boy was the first case of tetanus in Oregon in more than 30 years. This lack of tetanus cases is attributed to widespread tetanus vaccination. Nationwide, between 2009 and 2015, there were only 197 cases of tetanus, which resulted in 16 deaths.

The recommended schedule for tetanus vaccines for children is a five-dose course at 2, 4, and 6 months, then 15-18 months, and 4-6 years. Health experts recommend a booster shot every 10 years.

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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That tetanus story... unreal.  Irresponsible parents putting their kid thru that torture and creating an $800k medical bill that will never get paid. The rest of us picking up the tab. 

The state should definitely have a right to take kids away from parents. Kids aren’t property and they should be represented by someone that has their best interest in mind. As in staying alive as utmost importance. Yes that can be a slippery slope but slippery slopes arguments are usually made by cowards afraid to do what is blatantly right. Worry about the next questionable case when it occurs.

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