McKinsey to Pay 650M To Defer Prosecution in Purdue Pharma Case

[TwiceHorn 32071]

https://apnews.com/article/mckinsey-justice-department-criminal-penalty-opioids-crisis-d47d1bc1c4e14288927c2aea2369b789

Fuckers.

Amok.  It has gone amok,

[956 Worldwide 35589]

In the United CEO thread there is a sidebar discussion about how the for-profit health care model does or does not foster medical innovation.  I think we need to accept that using consultants to better market legal optiates is a form of for-profit medical innovation. 

[randomhorn 2172]

It’s very innovative 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

[C-Man 27777]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

Every other TV commercial is a drug commercial.

[freyguy 4368]

That's chump change for getting a country addicted to opiods.

[Deej 77803]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

It's out of control, alright.

 

[Blotto 24011]

Quote

McKinsey said in a statement on Friday that it’s “deeply sorry” for its work for Purdue Pharma.

A few minutes after getting off the phone with those poor, bitch-ass AP reporters....

[royiv 9771]

14 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Every other TV commercial is a drug commercial.

Pharma ads are a whole industry unto itself. It’s completely bizarre.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10803]

Once again yeah team...

"The company has maintained that none of its settlements contain admissions of liability or wrongdoing."

We need to adopt the Japanese still of settlements where company executives in front of cameras need to admit liabliity and wrongdoing. Their family - parents, kids, neighbors, need to be sitting front row.

[Nivek 17404]

How much did they make?   Then we can put the settlement into proper context.

Edited December 13 by Nivek

[Anastasis 23716]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

How much did they make?   Then we can put the settlement into proper context.

Just one time frame, but from 1996 to 2000 sales of Oxycontin went from 50MM to over 1B. The core drug entity had been around forever, was cheap and generic. 

 

[Sawbonz 28192]

30 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Every other TV commercial is a drug commercial.

And half of them are for meds for psoriasis. They have this great medicine that will get rid of your itchy skin rash, and then they list all of these absolutely horrible potential side effects that can fucking kill you.

[Anastasis 23716]

35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

100% agree. 

[Anastasis 23716]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

And half of them are for meds for psoriasis. They have this great medicine that will get rid of your itchy skin rash, and then they list all of these absolutely horrible potential side effects that can fucking kill you.

You probably experience this as a provider more than many, but the resultant backlash on the use of opiates, directly related to the opioid epidemic created primarily by Purdue, has cause untold amount of needless pain and suffering by patients. 

[hookemATL 12240]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

And half of them are for meds for psoriasis. They have this great medicine that will get rid of your itchy skin rash, and then they list all of these absolutely horrible potential side effects that can fucking kill you.

“Side effects include beans in chili, dry brisket, anal fissures, nazi sympathies, and random violent bleeding from the urethra”

[BrickHorn 18447]

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

The latest episodes of Behind the Bastards focused on the Vioxx scandal. It’s a good listen. 

[Sawbonz 28192]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Just one time frame, but from 1996 to 2000 sales of Oxycontin went from 50MM to over 1B. The core drug entity had been around forever, was cheap and generic. 

 

This is right when I was doing my orthopedic surgery residency. Between fractures and big surgeries, our specialty writes. a ton of appropriate opiate prescriptions. You learned pretty quick that Tylenol with codeine and low-dose hydrocodone work for most people for most things. And you learn that oxycodone is potential fucking trouble. Kids these days would say it hits different. People asking for Percs was always a big red flag

 

 

 

Then all of a sudden you have all these reps coming into clinic telling you it’s not the Percocet that is the problem, it’s the immediate release. If you give them a slow steady dose over 12 to 24 hours, nobody gets addicted. All of us laughed at that bullshit, but a fuck ton of primary care doctors started prescribing this shit and pretty soon their patients were crushing them and snorting them. These were normal fucking people with garden variety ailments and they wind up losing their jobs and ending up buying heroin off the street. 
 

Hanging is too good for these fucks

Edited December 13 by Sawbonz

[Don Johnson 4847]

Why settle?

[Vegas64 713]

40 minutes ago, freyguy said:

That's chump change for getting a country addicted to opiods.

It's crazy.

Just got back from skiing. Got in a massive wipeout and felt like I got hit by a bus by the time I got to the bottom of the mountain. I ain't no spring chicken, I thought I had broken all the bones.

Go to the nearest ER which is a dumpy Colorado vet or miner hospital on the border of New Mexico and the doc there is awesome. Do a full trauma workup (as if I got in a car wreck) and full scan. Turns out I'm fine, just bruised and battered, but no tears, breaks, fractures, nothing. Just very sore. 

Nurse: "Mr. Vegas, we can't give you any norco or pain meds like that because you took some Advil (or Tylenol) a few hours ago before coming in, but we have a bunch of fetanayal we can push in your IV"

Me: Um wut? You want to give me fet? 

Nurse: "The only thing we can give you, it's this or nothing. I've sent a muscle relaxer to the pharmacy, but if you want anything now it's this or nothing"

Me: "I'm fine, thank you"

I couldn't believe how easy they dispense with it and no wonder rural communities are lousy with it.

 

[Brisketexan 106874]

Maybe the real friends were the billions of dollars we made along the way to selling metric shittons of poison to people, causing untold death and human misery?

We are a deeply evil, deeply broken society.

Money and profit are not bad.  Money and profit, above and at the expense of literally everything else, are very, very bad.

Question that, in the slightest, and you're ZOMG A SOCIALIST!  

It will only get worse.  There is no bottom.

Edited December 13 by Brisketexan

[Murfdogg21 4563]

32 minutes ago, Nivek said:

How much did they make?   Then we can put the settlement into proper context.

The article said they were paid $93m over 15 years for multiple products, not just oxycontin. So their dealings with Purdue were a loss, but better than execs going to pound me in the ass prison?

[Sawbonz 28192]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe the real friends were the billions of dollars we made along the way to selling metric shittons of poison to people, causing untold death and human misery?

We are a deeply evil, deeply broken society.

Money and profit are not bad.  Money and profit, above and at the expense of literally everything else, are very, very bad.

Question that, in the slightest, and you're ZOMG A SOCIALIST!  

It will only get worse.  There is no bottom.

 

[royiv 9771]

23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

And half of them are for meds for psoriasis. They have this great medicine that will get rid of your itchy skin rash, and then they list all of these absolutely horrible potential side effects that can fucking kill you.

The one that gets me is the one that lists taint abscess as a side effect. I think of the human lab rats over at PPD that got to experience that pleasure firsthand during clinical trials.

[Sbbruin 22142]

13 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Why settle?

So you don't, as mentioned above, end up 

[Willfully Horn 8257]

33 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Just one time frame, but from 1996 to 2000 sales of Oxycontin went from 50MM to over 1B. The core drug entity had been around forever, was cheap and generic. 

 

Narcotics can kill you, if you overdose. And, to be sure, when misused narcotics are addictive. Otoh, narcotics, when properly used, are remarkably benign in terms of ill effects on the body. Narcotics with anti-inflammatory analgesics offer the most effective pain relief.

But, they’re cheap, and generic, absolutely. So, is there not a financial incentive to have them removed from treatment options?

Edited December 13 by Willfully Horn

[randomhorn 2172]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe the real friends were the billions of dollars we made along the way to selling metric shittons of poison to people, causing untold death and human misery?

We are a deeply evil, deeply broken society.

Money and profit are not bad.  Money and profit, above and at the expense of literally everything else, are very, very bad.

Question that, in the slightest, and you're ZOMG A SOCIALIST!  

It will only get worse.  There is no bottom.

Maybe the real treasure was the shareholder value that was made along the way

[TwiceHorn 32071]

22 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Why settle?

A criminal trial would have been extremely humiliating, even if acquitted. See Arthur Andersen. 

[Brisketexan 106874]

13 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

Man, great cut.  Of course, my wife is a huge Killers fan and thinks Pressure Machine is one of the more underrated albums of all time, so some bias there.

But, bottom line, yeah....we condemned hundreds of thousands of our countrymen to death and millions more to misery in the name of pure profit for a handful of folks.  That's as evil as it gets.  The question of "Would you kill hundreds of thousands of people in order to enrich yourself?" was answered with an enthusiastic "YES!" by a disturbingly large number of people.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

15 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

The article said they were paid $93m over 15 years for multiple products, not just oxycontin. So their dealings with Purdue were a loss, but better than execs going to pound me in the ass prison?

Purdue didn't make hardly anything else. Suboxone, I believe, was their only other product in this time frame. 

[Nivek 17404]

20 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This is right when I was doing my orthopedic surgery residency. Between fractures and big surgeries, our specialty writes. a ton of appropriate opiate prescriptions. You learned pretty quick that Tylenol with codeine and low-dose hydrocodone work for most people for most things. And you learn that oxycodone is potential fucking trouble. Kids these days would say it hits different. People asking for Percs was always a big red flag

 

 

 

Then all of a sudden you have all these reps coming into clinic telling you it’s not the Percocet that is the problem, it’s the immediate release. If you give them a slow steady dose over 12 to 24 hours, nobody gets addicted. All of us laughed at that bullshit, but a fuck ton of primary care doctors started prescribing this shit and pretty soon their patients were crushing them and snorting them and ending u started prescribing this shit and pretty soon their patients  were on ever increasing doses, then crushing them and snorting them. These were normal fucking people with garden variety ailments and they wind up losing their jobs and ending up buying heroin off the street. 
 

Hanging is too good for these fucks

In the late 90s, they gave me percocets for a motorcycle accident, which was enough to dull the pain but they limited my dose so that I stretched it out over a week and was OK, once the week was up, I was really fucking sore.  I asked for percocets and got that red flag treatment.   10-15 years later, I was handed about 30 pills of oxy for a bruised toe/broken nail.  I was fine in a few hours. 

[Sawbonz 28192]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Purdue didn't make hardly anything else. Suboxone, I believe, was their only other product in this time frame. 

So get everybody hooked on OxyContin, and then try to cure them with Suboxone. We are going to need a whole lot of Luigi’s.

[Nivek 17404]

46 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Just one time frame, but from 1996 to 2000 sales of Oxycontin went from 50MM to over 1B. The core drug entity had been around forever, was cheap and generic. 

 

Annually or in total?

[956 Worldwide 35589]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

This relates too, to pharma marketing, which I think is 100% out of control. 

The for-profit model has “healthcare consumers” and not “patients” so it’s unclear why there shouldn’t be marketing for healthcare. 
 

There would be marketing under a different model but it would be the weird and limited kind, like ads for NGAD from Northrop Grumman that target like 40 people who all ride the Orange line in DC. 

[Anastasis 23716]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Annually or in total?

Annual sales. Oxycontin's approval by the FDA was a clear example of regulatory capture and the obvious problem with a revolving door between industry and the FDA. Purdue wrote the fucking approval letter in a hotel room with the FDA reviewer and without a compliance officer present. The FDA does a lot of really good work, but man when they shit the bed they really shit the bed. 

Edited December 13 by Anastasis

[TwiceHorn 32071]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Annual sales. Oxycontin's approval by the FDA was a clear example of regulatory capture and the obvious problem with a revolving door between industry and the FDA. Purdue wrote the fucking approval letter in a hotel room with the FDA reviewer and without a compliance officer present. The FDA does a lot of really good work, but man when they shit the bed they really shit the bed. 

Approval or approval of the non-addictive label?  As I recall, it took them years to get the label approved after an all out assault on FDA.  Not an ideal outcome by any means, but not exactly a rubber stamp, either.

[atomheartbevo 90634]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Every other TV commercial is a drug commercial.

Where else am I going to hear about he latest drugs that can potentially cause nausea, blindness, schizophrenia, hives, and shitting out my lower intestine.

[TonyTexas 10735]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

Pharma ads are a whole industry unto itself. It’s completely bizarre.

I’ve never really understood the pharma strategy of marketing to the general public. I’ve never asked my doctor to prescribe a specific drug. I just go with what he/she thinks is best.

Edited December 13 by TonyTexas

[TwiceHorn 32071]

22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Where else am I going to hear about he latest drugs that can potentially cause nausea, blindness, schizophrenia, hives, and shitting out my lower intestine.

And/or a ruptured taint.

[HOOKEM4 5168]

15 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I’ve never really understood the pharma strategy of marketing to the general public. I’ve never asked my doctor to prescribe a specific drug. I just go with what he/she thinks is best.

It saves on drug reps trying to get to every doctor.

[royiv 9771]

24 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I’ve never really understood the pharma strategy of marketing to the general public. I’ve never asked my doctor to prescribe a specific drug. I just go with what he/she thinks is best.

What I really want to know is how those old farts get those two cast iron bathtubs to all of those scenic locations.

[Celery Man 21093]

One of these guys was the first person I met in treatment. Big friendly smile, rural Oklahoma,youth football coach, hurt his back mending a fence or working cattle or something like that and here he is in Hunt TX getting cured off the oxy with the rest of the degenerates. His daughters were beautiful, crying with him during family week. I hope he’s alive still.

[Parliament 14593]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 If you give them a slow steady dose over 12 to 24 hours, nobody gets addicted.

Crush it fine and snort it.

I’m told.

[Sbbruin 22142]

I've been prescribed opioids several times in the last few years.  I've always really tried to slow play their use.  I have a somewhat addictive personality.  Been able to avoid any abuse.  Been sitting on 2 half filled bottle- one of hydrocodone and one of Percocet, and have touched them in months.  But now that I think about it, it is Friday...

[hookemATL 12240]

3 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I ain't no spring chicken

More like a fall chicken, amirite?

 

[Sawbonz 28192]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Crush it fine and snort it.

I’m told.

Keep reading 

[atomheartbevo 90634]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

What I really want to know is how those old farts get those two cast iron bathtubs to all of those scenic locations.

It's a lot harder than you think and arguably not worth the effort to get laid - if you want to bang an attractive older lady, it's cheaper and easier to rent a golf cart and start driving through The Villages.

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

 

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

A criminal trial would have been extremely humiliating, even if acquitted. See Arthur Andersen. 

It’s adorable that anyone thinks they will wind up paying one fucking cent of this judgment amount.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

 

It’s adorable that anyone thinks they will wind up paying one fucking cent of this judgment amount.

You have become a legal know-it-all now.  They had to pay this straight to the DOJ to avoid further consequences.  Well, actually over a period of five years.

Edited December 14 by TwiceHorn

[4th_and_18 709]

And half of them are for meds for psoriasis. They have this great medicine that will get rid of your itchy skin rash, and then they list all of these absolutely horrible potential side effects that can fucking kill you.

Does any insurance cover opzelura for non-vitiligo use? It’s $2000/month without insurance. It works for my dishydrotic eczema but I can’t afford it. Just keep begging the doctor for samples until we spend years trying the other lotions the insurance does cover.